Respect the Process

[MU82]

I don't cite those guys because I'm an optimist, but rather because I think the cost of starting over is too high. Say we miss the tourney this year and fire Wojo, what happens? Here's my fear:

• Stan Johnson goes west: When MU refuses to give him the head job, he instead lands at Washington and retains key recruit Michael Porter.
  
• Transfers galore: Duane Wilson and Andrew Rowsey both leave as grad transfers. Markus Howard follows Stan to Washington. Sam Hauser gives the new coach a chance, but with a severe talent drop-off, he leaves for Virginia in December.
  
• Recruiting class lost: Theo John and Jamal Cain both go elsewhere. Ike Eke stays but isn't nearly ready, however a lack of depth forces him to start until Froling is available.
  
• Wojo to Georgetown: JTIII misses the tournament for the third time in four years and is fired. Wojo takes their job, getting closer to home. He keeps Tremont Waters and the current roster intact, leading the Hoyas to a NCAA berth his first year before landing a top-10 recruiting class in 2018, headlined by Joey Hauser, David McCormack, and TJ Moss.
  
• Marquette stagnates: The new coach takes over a threadbare roster with Cheatham, Hauser, Heldt, Froling, and Anim the only returning scholarship players. Ike Eke and Philip Flory highlight the recrutiing class, but neither are ready to contribute at this level. The team is worse than 2014-15 and Hauser leaves as a mid-season transfer. We land a grad transfer, but not close to the level of Carlino. We spend our first two years looking up in the standings at DePaul, St. John's, and a resurgent Georgetown squad.

Any changeover at this point would lead to mass departures and a depleted roster. It would lead to starting over from both a talent and recruiting perspective. It would have us chasing grad transfers just to cobble a viable roster together. How is any of that good?

We saw it with Buzz, when recruits departed and players were kicked off the team only to be begged to return later. We saw it with Wojo, where Buzz may have left "Seven top-100 recruits", but three of those were Juan Anderson, Steve Taylor, and Sandy Cohen, and another wouldn't make it to the new year on the roster (Burton).

Maybe Wojo will succeed. Maybe he won't. But now is not the time to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We went from an abysmal 2015 to a 20-win 2016 to a likely NCAA berth in 2017. We're clearly getting better. We're not where we want to be, but you have to walk before you can run and I sure as hell enjoy watching this team more than I did that 2015 wreck (and frankly, more than Buzz's last team in 2014).

I don't want next year to be worse than 2 years ago, which would almost undoubtedly happen if we changed course. If Wojo doesn't get over the hump, you make the change when we haven't yet made a tournament after a year in the new arena. If he can't get there with Cheatham, Howard, and Hauser as upperclassmen, along with the added talent and a potential big 2018 recruiting class, then by all means, start looking. But that's not today. That's a question for two years from now.

Realistic, well-laid-out and calmly presented.

Nicely done, brew.

Now, as some Scoopers like to say ... Wojo better win tonight!

(And then, as I like to say, "or else what?")

[GGGG]

Exactly, they sure seem to gravitate to New England.  He wants to win every year and seems to be able to fill easier than the Pack.  I do believe there is a difference
in GB, if you are a single person, do you want to go to a bigger city or GB?  Pack have to over pay to get some free agents to GB,  plus easier if they are married.  Then
you have Ted....

My point is that the Packers don't try to sign them.  But when they do, they come to Green Bay if they get paid and/or have a chance to win a title.  Reggie White, Ryan Pickett, Charles Woodson, etc. 

Remember these guys don't live in Green Bay.  They come here to work a limited career.  Would they prefer a big city?  Perhaps.  But they aren't turning down lucrative contracts to play in New York for less money.

If the Bucks start winning and compete for titles, free agents will come to Milwaukee.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I don't cite those guys because I'm an optimist, but rather because I think the cost of starting over is too high. Say we miss the tourney this year and fire Wojo, what happens? Here's my fear:

I know you love doing these random story deals, but Wojo isn't getting fired. You know that, I know that.  I think he has at least two more years of missing the tourney, before the admin seriously considers moving on.  It would be such a set back at this point.

[willie warrior]

I don't cite those guys because I'm an optimist, but rather because I think the cost of starting over is too high. Say we miss the tourney this year and fire Wojo, what happens? Here's my fear:

• Stan Johnson goes west: When MU refuses to give him the head job, he instead lands at Washington and retains key recruit Michael Porter.
  
• Transfers galore: Duane Wilson and Andrew Rowsey both leave as grad transfers. Markus Howard follows Stan to Washington. Sam Hauser gives the new coach a chance, but with a severe talent drop-off, he leaves for Virginia in December.
  
• Recruiting class lost: Theo John and Jamal Cain both go elsewhere. Ike Eke stays but isn't nearly ready, however a lack of depth forces him to start until Froling is available.
  
• Wojo to Georgetown: JTIII misses the tournament for the third time in four years and is fired. Wojo takes their job, getting closer to home. He keeps Tremont Waters and the current roster intact, leading the Hoyas to a NCAA berth his first year before landing a top-10 recruiting class in 2018, headlined by Joey Hauser, David McCormack, and TJ Moss.
  
• Marquette stagnates: The new coach takes over a threadbare roster with Cheatham, Hauser, Heldt, Froling, and Anim the only returning scholarship players. Ike Eke and Philip Flory highlight the recrutiing class, but neither are ready to contribute at this level. The team is worse than 2014-15 and Hauser leaves as a mid-season transfer. We land a grad transfer, but not close to the level of Carlino. We spend our first two years looking up in the standings at DePaul, St. John's, and a resurgent Georgetown squad.

Any changeover at this point would lead to mass departures and a depleted roster. It would lead to starting over from both a talent and recruiting perspective. It would have us chasing grad transfers just to cobble a viable roster together. How is any of that good?

We saw it with Buzz, when recruits departed and players were kicked off the team only to be begged to return later. We saw it with Wojo, where Buzz may have left "Seven top-100 recruits", but three of those were Juan Anderson, Steve Taylor, and Sandy Cohen, and another wouldn't make it to the new year on the roster (Burton).

Maybe Wojo will succeed. Maybe he won't. But now is not the time to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We went from an abysmal 2015 to a 20-win 2016 to a likely NCAA berth in 2017. We're clearly getting better. We're not where we want to be, but you have to walk before you can run and I sure as hell enjoy watching this team more than I did that 2015 wreck (and frankly, more than Buzz's last team in 2014).

I don't want next year to be worse than 2 years ago, which would almost undoubtedly happen if we changed course. If Wojo doesn't get over the hump, you make the change when we haven't yet made a tournament after a year in the new arena. If he can't get there with Cheatham, Howard, and Hauser as upperclassmen, along with the added talent and a potential big 2018 recruiting class, then by all means, start looking. But that's not today. That's a question for two years from now.

[willie warrior]

I don't cite those guys because I'm an optimist, but rather because I think the cost of starting over is too high. Say we miss the tourney this year and fire Wojo, what happens? Here's my fear:

• Stan Johnson goes west: When MU refuses to give him the head job, he instead lands at Washington and retains key recruit Michael Porter.
  
• Transfers galore: Duane Wilson and Andrew Rowsey both leave as grad transfers. Markus Howard follows Stan to Washington. Sam Hauser gives the new coach a chance, but with a severe talent drop-off, he leaves for Virginia in December.
  
• Recruiting class lost: Theo John and Jamal Cain both go elsewhere. Ike Eke stays but isn't nearly ready, however a lack of depth forces him to start until Froling is available.
  
• Wojo to Georgetown: JTIII misses the tournament for the third time in four years and is fired. Wojo takes their job, getting closer to home. He keeps Tremont Waters and the current roster intact, leading the Hoyas to a NCAA berth his first year before landing a top-10 recruiting class in 2018, headlined by Joey Hauser, David McCormack, and TJ Moss.
  
• Marquette stagnates: The new coach takes over a threadbare roster with Cheatham, Hauser, Heldt, Froling, and Anim the only returning scholarship players. Ike Eke and Philip Flory highlight the recrutiing class, but neither are ready to contribute at this level. The team is worse than 2014-15 and Hauser leaves as a mid-season transfer. We land a grad transfer, but not close to the level of Carlino. We spend our first two years looking up in the standings at DePaul, St. John's, and a resurgent Georgetown squad.

Any changeover at this point would lead to mass departures and a depleted roster. It would lead to starting over from both a talent and recruiting perspective. It would have us chasing grad transfers just to cobble a viable roster together. How is any of that good?

We saw it with Buzz, when recruits departed and players were kicked off the team only to be begged to return later. We saw it with Wojo, where Buzz may have left "Seven top-100 recruits", but three of those were Juan Anderson, Steve Taylor, and Sandy Cohen, and another wouldn't make it to the new year on the roster (Burton).

Maybe Wojo will succeed. Maybe he won't. But now is not the time to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We went from an abysmal 2015 to a 20-win 2016 to a likely NCAA berth in 2017. We're clearly getting better. We're not where we want to be, but you have to walk before you can run and I sure as hell enjoy watching this team more than I did that 2015 wreck (and frankly, more than Buzz's last team in 2014).

I don't want next year to be worse than 2 years ago, which would almost undoubtedly happen if we changed course. If Wojo doesn't get over the hump, you make the change when we haven't yet made a tournament after a year in the new arena. If he can't get there with Cheatham, Howard, and Hauser as upperclassmen, along with the added talent and a potential big 2018 recruiting class, then by all means, start looking. But that's not today. That's a question for two years from now.

Quite the imagination there. You could make a great career as a novelist, or damn, a reality show script writer. Very good.

[1SE]

I don't cite those guys because I'm an optimist, but rather because I think the cost of starting over is too high. Say we miss the tourney this year and fire Wojo, what happens? Here's my fear:

• Stan Johnson goes west: When MU refuses to give him the head job, he instead lands at Washington and retains key recruit Michael Porter.
  
• Transfers galore: Duane Wilson and Andrew Rowsey both leave as grad transfers. Markus Howard follows Stan to Washington. Sam Hauser gives the new coach a chance, but with a severe talent drop-off, he leaves for Virginia in December.
  
• Recruiting class lost: Theo John and Jamal Cain both go elsewhere. Ike Eke stays but isn't nearly ready, however a lack of depth forces him to start until Froling is available.
  
• Wojo to Georgetown: JTIII misses the tournament for the third time in four years and is fired. Wojo takes their job, getting closer to home. He keeps Tremont Waters and the current roster intact, leading the Hoyas to a NCAA berth his first year before landing a top-10 recruiting class in 2018, headlined by Joey Hauser, David McCormack, and TJ Moss.
  
• Marquette stagnates: The new coach takes over a threadbare roster with Cheatham, Hauser, Heldt, Froling, and Anim the only returning scholarship players. Ike Eke and Philip Flory highlight the recrutiing class, but neither are ready to contribute at this level. The team is worse than 2014-15 and Hauser leaves as a mid-season transfer. We land a grad transfer, but not close to the level of Carlino. We spend our first two years looking up in the standings at DePaul, St. John's, and a resurgent Georgetown squad.

Any changeover at this point would lead to mass departures and a depleted roster. It would lead to starting over from both a talent and recruiting perspective. It would have us chasing grad transfers just to cobble a viable roster together. How is any of that good?

We saw it with Buzz, when recruits departed and players were kicked off the team only to be begged to return later. We saw it with Wojo, where Buzz may have left "Seven top-100 recruits", but three of those were Juan Anderson, Steve Taylor, and Sandy Cohen, and another wouldn't make it to the new year on the roster (Burton).

Maybe Wojo will succeed. Maybe he won't. But now is not the time to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We went from an abysmal 2015 to a 20-win 2016 to a likely NCAA berth in 2017. We're clearly getting better. We're not where we want to be, but you have to walk before you can run and I sure as hell enjoy watching this team more than I did that 2015 wreck (and frankly, more than Buzz's last team in 2014).

I don't want next year to be worse than 2 years ago, which would almost undoubtedly happen if we changed course. If Wojo doesn't get over the hump, you make the change when we haven't yet made a tournament after a year in the new arena. If he can't get there with Cheatham, Howard, and Hauser as upperclassmen, along with the added talent and a potential big 2018 recruiting class, then by all means, start looking. But that's not today. That's a question for two years from now.

Like I've said elsewhere, I think Wojo's has turned the corner. But if one reasonably expects he's NEVER going anywhere, you absolutely make the change as quickly as possible. Sunk costs and all.

[GGGG]

There are plenty of those, too, yes. But most of us who cite the Coach Ks and Jay Wrights and KOs are the more optimistic types here on Scoop. We want Wojo to succeed and we think he deserves the same chance ... especially since it is obvious to all but the real haters that the trend is a good one for the Warriors.

I am a "cautiously optimistic" type on Wojo.  There has been progress.  Sometimes with steps back along the way.  I just don't know yet if we will ever get where we want to be.

An analogy.  I think we are about halfway through the marathon.  He doesn't look as good as other runners, but I think he's going to finish.

[NYWarrior]

Can't go a couple weeks outout someone posting an example of a new coach struggling for X years, then doing well.

Curious, how about examples of new coaches who struggled for X years, then kept struggling and was fired?

nobody comes to mind. /snark

[brewcity77]

I know you love doing these random story deals, but Wojo isn't getting fired. You know that, I know that.  I think he has at least two more years of missing the tourney, before the admin seriously considers moving on.  It would be such a set back at this point.

He's not going anywhere, but anyone that thinks we'd be better off if he did is crazy. The best case scenario would be turning our timetable back 3 years.

I've no idea if we have a long term answer in Wojo, but we certainly wouldn't find out by changing course at this point. It's just silly to even consider.

[wadesworld]

Exactly, they sure seem to gravitate to New England.  He wants to win every year and seems to be able to fill easier than the Pack.  I do believe there is a difference
in GB, if you are a single person, do you want to go to a bigger city or GB?  Pack have to over pay to get some free agents to GB,  plus easier if they are married.  Then
you have Ted....

The Bucks, name me a free agent in the upper tier that wants to come here??  Let's see if Parker wants to stay her in the future.

They just signed one of the biggest free agents on the market 2 years ago.

[Folks,,,]

I am a "cautiously optimistic" type on Wojo.  There has been progress.  Sometimes with steps back along the way.  I just don't know yet if we will ever get where we want some Scoopers think MU deserves to be.

The struck and bold parts are an issue that I see in some people's perception of the program's direction.  Programs don't deserve to be powerhouses just because of a successful decade 40 years ago.  MU will likely never reach the "perennial Top-10 program" status that some believe should be the case.  You can't skyrocket to the mountain top, build a mansion, and live there forever.

Maybe its a life cycle thing, older fans experienced the highest level of success and want it back before its too late. I'm a little younger and willing to have more patience in a slower, sustained rise to year after year success.

An analogy.  I think we are about halfway through the marathon.  He doesn't look as good as other runners, but I think he's going to finish.

What are you defining as "the finish line"?

[fjm]

Give me top 25 (or receiving votes) every week and a tourney birth and I'll be happy.

[dgies9156]

Give me top 25 (or receiving votes) every week and a tourney birth and I'll be happy.

Give me an annual tournament berth, the second best record of any NCAA team over the next 10 years, a national championship and a national runner-up and I'll be happy.

I come from an era where that was the norm. I agree that you CANNOT wish yourself elite status. You earn it.

You earn it by doing what Wojo has done. You recruit well and learn to coach effectively. The recruits and the wins build on each other until we become a destination address for four and five star recruits.

If you begin by saying, "we're in Milwaukee," or "we'll never be good again," then I promise you won't be. Period.

[fjm]

Give me an annual tournament berth, the second best record of any NCAA team over the next 10 years, a national championship and a national runner-up and I'll be happy.

I come from an era where that was the norm. I agree that you CANNOT wish yourself elite status. You earn it.

You earn it by doing what Wojo has done. You recruit well and learn to coach effectively. The recruits and the wins build on each other until we become a destination address for four and five star recruits.

If you begin by saying, "we're in Milwaukee," or "we'll never be good again," then I promise you won't be. Period.

Oh I definitely know we will be good again. But I also understand that looking at the standings, no team is in the top 25 weekly (Kentucky a few years ago lost in the first round of the NIT, Duke has dropped from the top 25 and lost a few years ago in the first round to Lehigh).

I get you have lofty expectations and I LOVE that. But as much as I am very optimistic when it comes to MUBB and I get frustrated with every loss because I always hope for 30-0, I also know well enough that teams lose.

[HoopsterBC]

They just signed one of the biggest free agents on the market 2 years ago.

Are you serious about Greg Monroe???   Lets see if he makes it a 3rd year.

[wadesworld]

Are you serious about Greg Monroe???   Lets see if he makes it a 3rd year.

That doesn't change the fact that he was one of the biggest free agents on the market and chose Milwaukee over New York City and Los Angeles...

[The Lens]

That doesn't change the fact that he was one of the biggest free agents on the market and chose Milwaukee over New York City and Los Angeles...

And the fact the Bucks inked Giannis to a 4 year extension.  And the fact the new CBA almost guarantees that top guys stay with their teams.

[Herman Cain]

It was a comment by Al in which he equated race to athleticism which was acceptable back then but isn't now.

So I guess the Movie White Men can't Jump would be re-titled to

Selected Basketball Players Are Vertically Challenged

[Galway Eagle]

Give me an annual tournament berth, the second best record of any NCAA team over the next 10 years, a national championship and a national runner-up and I'll be happy.

I come from an era where that was the norm. I agree that you CANNOT wish yourself elite status. You earn it.

You earn it by doing what Wojo has done. You recruit well and learn to coach effectively. The recruits and the wins build on each other until we become a destination address for four and five star recruits.

If you begin by saying, "we're in Milwaukee," or "we'll never be good again," then I promise you won't be. Period.

Well seeing as that happened once it cannot be "the norm"

If we're slightly better than 01 to 2013 (10/12 NCAA 2 NIT, 1FF, 1E8, 2S16) then I'll be happy and we'll be considered one of if not the best catholic bball team.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So I guess the Movie White Men can't Jump would be re-titled to

Selected Basketball Players Are Vertically Challenged

I've never actually seen the movie which is a shame I know. But isn't about a white basketball player who hustles black men in basketball because they assume he can't play because he's white? It seems like the movie is about challenging that mindset...but again haven't seen the movie so I could be wrong

[brewcity77]

I've never actually seen the movie which is a shame I know. But isn't about a white basketball player who hustles black men in basketball because they assume he can't play because he's white? It seems like the movie is about challenging that mindset...but again haven't seen the movie so I could be wrong

It is a shame, well worth the time.

The simple truth is just because Al said something 4 decades ago doesn't make it acceptable today any more than any other things that were once not considered racist but now are. Once upon a time, blackface was acceptable in film, picaninnys were acceptable marketing tools, and slavery was an acceptable form of providing a labor force. Just because that was once acceptable doesn't make it so today.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm sick and tired of how we revere everything Al said as gospel. Al said plenty of great things and gave us plenty of great quotes, but that doesn't mean we should embrace everything he said as currently relevant and acceptable. I love the memories we have of Al McGuire, I love what he did for Marquette, but there's a difference between 1960s and 70s social mores and 2010s social mores. It shouldn't be that hard to adjust our mannerisms appropriately.

[MUfan12]

So I guess the Movie White Men can't Jump would be re-titled to

Selected Basketball Players Are Vertically Challenged

*Traditional

[GGGG]

It is a shame, well worth the time.

The simple truth is just because Al said something 4 decades ago doesn't make it acceptable today any more than any other things that were once not considered racist but now are. Once upon a time, blackface was acceptable in film, picaninnys were acceptable marketing tools, and slavery was an acceptable form of providing a labor force. Just because that was once acceptable doesn't make it so today.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm sick and tired of how we revere everything Al said as gospel. Al said plenty of great things and gave us plenty of great quotes, but that doesn't mean we should embrace everything he said as currently relevant and acceptable. I love the memories we have of Al McGuire, I love what he did for Marquette, but there's a difference between 1960s and 70s social mores and 2010s social mores. It shouldn't be that hard to adjust our mannerisms appropriately.

And Al would be the first to agree.

[MU82]

The simple truth is just because Al said something 4 decades ago doesn't make it acceptable today any more than any other things that were once not considered racist but now are. Once upon a time, blackface was acceptable in film, picaninnys were acceptable marketing tools, and slavery was an acceptable form of providing a labor force. Just because that was once acceptable doesn't make it so today.

When we get back to all that good fun from the '50s, '60s and '70s, we'll be making America great again!

[tower912]

When we get back to all that good fun from the '50s, '60s and '70s, we'll be making America great again!

Woodstock, free love, lsd, man perms, and polyester leisure suits?