Quit Whining

[brewcity77]

Man, are we a sad fanbase full of entitled crybabies. I don't think I've ever seen Heisenberg ever be so absolutely goddamn RIGHT before. And this isn't just for the occasional, drive-by posters that only show up after losses, this includes the long-time posters and regulars that lose their minds whenever we lose.

First, the people who say they are "sick of the losing". FFS, get a damn grip. A program like Villanova's isn't built overnight. It took Jay Wright 4 years to get to the tournament and 13 to build the dynasty we see today. So we've missed the tourney for 3 straight...boo freaking hoo. The 2014 team was dead in the water without Vander, 2015 was the worst roster we've had since the Piano Man, and it's been nothing but progress since. Last year we won 20 games, and yes there were cupcakes, but 12 were against high majors including 4 wins over tournament teams. This year we are clearly better than last year. So what the hell are we complaining about?

We got stomped at Villanova. Realize they are 44-1 in their last 45 home games, and that 1 took overtime to beat them. They haven't lost at home in regulation in nearly 3 years. It's still just one loss, and a game we were supposed to lose. Did anyone really expect we were going to win yesterday? When we look at Villanova, we are looking at the team we hope to become. It took them the better part of two decades to become what they are now, and somehow this entitled, crybaby fanbase thinks Wojo should be able to do it in what, 2-1/2 years? Good god, get a freaking grip and come back to reality.

I'm also sick of tossing our seniors under the bus repeatedly. So Luke didn't get any defensive boards. As a team we didn't get any defensive boards because THEY DIDN'T MISS. You don't get a rebound when the only sound you are hearing is a soft "swish". And lord, is there any more of a whipping boy than JJ? I can't remember someone getting beat up by his own fanbase this badly since Vander Blue. When we win, JJ is the man, everyone loves him, when we lose, JJ sucks and has no heart. Shut up. JJ leads the team in assist rate, steal percentage, defensive rebounding percentage, and scoring. He pretty much does everything for us. Yet he's the first one we throw under the bus when things go wrong.

The defense posts are a bit tired too. The defense was fine against Georgetown and Seton Hall. The defense has definitely improved as the season went on. Further, I'm seeing posts that say Haanif, Sam, and Howard are fine on defense. This is a process. This will take time. And if our best defenders are our underclassmen, how about not giving up on them before they are halfway through their eligibility? The offense is light years ahead of where it was two years ago, and I'll take this year's defense over either of the past two years (including the zone in 2015 that masked our deficiencies).

And finally, the comparisons to Buzz. Good grief. For anyone who doesn't realize it, Buzz was ran out of here for a reason. We can deny all we want, but Buzz's whole thing about "character revealed" was the most accurate thing he ever talked about, and quite a few of the kids he recruited didn't have the character we expect. All the crap with Mayo, all the crap with the sexual assault, all the stuff we liked to write off as "wrong place, wrong time", well that happened because we had a coach that brought those kinds of players in, that tried to sweep things under the rug, and whose own character was as flawed as anything, as shown by him running out the door as soon as he didn't get everything his way. It doesn't matter if he's killing it at Va Tech or if it's a basement fire, the simple reality is that the powers that be weren't willing to go with the win at all costs angle. They want kids that were going to graduate, kids that were going to be written about in the sports pages, not the news pages, and a program that we can be proud of on and off the court.

That means going through a process that takes time. Buzz is great at the quick rebuild. Wojo's focus is on the long haul. Guys like Carlino, Ellenson, and Reinhardt have helped mask deficiencies, but this program is now about the four year kids like Cheatham, Heldt, Hauser, Howard, John, and Cain that will make their impact felt as they age. So let's freaking let them age and accept that while we aren't there yet, progress is unquestionably being made, we have been better every single season under Wojo, and building a program that is self-sustaining doesn't happen in a couple months or a couple seasons, but rather over 5 years, 10 years, and more than that.

We're a bunch of entitled babies. And it's not the young posters, it's not the millennials, it's the crotchety old men, STHs, and long-time posters that are just as bad as anyone else.

[GGGG]

[wadesworld]

Get tough Marquette.

[MarquetteDano]

I understand the frustration but the tendency for posters to blame our deficiencies on a single player is really comical and shows a lack of understanding of what happens during the game.

Other than the coach,  it is rare there is a single person to blame for a loss.

[MU_Beav]

Nice post.

[Earl Tatum]

I get mad about the defense, our shot selection at times and toughness
at times, but I think Brewcity77 straightened it out. Well Done.
Made some good, accurate points. I think we put forth a good effort but
moral victories don't count. Even Tom Izzo got cranky Saturday. Sat
his best player (Bridges) until he figured it out. Go Warriors.

[wadesworld]

The best thing is the administration is on the same side. No matter what happens this year and next, Wojo will have until he has a full roster of his guys. The good news? The roster in his fifth year could look like:

PG: Howard and someone not on the roster (please Wojo, Ramey)
SG: Cheatham/Bailey
SF: S. Hauser/Cain/Sacar
PF: J. Hauser (please Wojo)/John
C: Froling (please Wojo)/Heldt/Eke

Throw in one more guard and oooeee. 2019 Final Four here we come!

[Marcus92]

Great post. But I'm not holding my breath expecting the tone on this board to change.

[HoopsterBC]

The best thing is the administration is on the same side. No matter what happens this year and next, Wojo will have until he has a full roster of his guys. The good news? The roster in his fifth year could look like:

PG: Howard and someone not on the roster (please Wojo, Ramey)
SG: Cheatham/Bailey
SF: S. Hauser/Cain/Sacar
PF: J. Hauser (please Wojo)/John
C: Froling (please Wojo)/Heldt/Eke

Take off your blinders, Final 4 no chance, NCAA bid, yes.

Throw in one more guard and oooeee. 2019 Final Four here we come!

[muwarrior69]

The best thing is the administration is on the same side. No matter what happens this year and next, Wojo will have until he has a full roster of his guys. The good news? The roster in his fifth year could look like:

PG: Howard and someone not on the roster (please Wojo, Ramey)
SG: Cheatham/Bailey
SF: S. Hauser/Cain/Sacar
PF: J. Hauser (please Wojo)/John
C: Froling (please Wojo)/Heldt/Eke

Throw in one more guard and oooeee. 2019 Final Four here we come!

It's admirable to set ones goals high, but to expect those goals to be met and then not achieved and complain about it is quite another thing.

[mu_hilltopper]

Brew, you feel better now that you've told us all off for the 20th time?

[Babybluejeans]

Excellent stuff, brew. I woke up yesterday and decided to ski the fresh powder rather than watch us lose to Villanova. Not out of protest but simply because we all knew we were going to lose, and we knew there was hardly a chance we'd even make it close. Everyone penciled in a loss from the day schedule came out and for good reason. Nova is a freakin' powerhouse.

After I tucked into an evening Avery craft brew, checked Scoop and couldn't believe the negativity following a game we knew for sure we'd lose. I thought it went without saying that getting whipped by the #1 team in the country and defending national champions on the road says NOTHING about where this program is.

[Afroman]

It's not really about losing to Villanova. I'm sure a majority expected it. It's frustrating seeing a coach in his third season fielding a seven-man roster (OK, eight; forgot about Heldt). It's also frustrating seeing the effort that was exhibited for that coach.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Brew, you feel better now that you've told us all off for the 20th time?

+1. Even Wojo went postal, perhaps more than any post here (which gives me comfort btw).

This is a basketball forum.  Some are sunshine pumpers, some voice frustration, some like stats, some like observations, some like history.  Or not.  Balance is good and respected.  But if you don't like a POV different than your own, don't come here.

Are we supposed to wait two more years to discuss MU hoops?  But only the good stuff?

[jsglow]

Excellent stuff, brew. I woke up yesterday and decided to ski the fresh powder rather than watch us lose to Villanova. Not out of protest but simply because we all knew we were going to lose, and we knew there was hardly a chance we'd even make it close. Everyone penciled in a loss from the day schedule came out and for good reason. Nova is a freakin' powerhouse.

After I tucked into an evening Avery craft brew, checked Scoop and couldn't believe the negativity following a game we knew for sure we'd lose. I thought it went without saying that getting whipped by the #1 team in the country and defending national champions on the road says NOTHING about where this program is.

Exactly.  I often choose to do something else too.  And as each mediocre season goes by, I get less and less invested.  But it's never about one game we had a one in a hundred chance of winning.

[muwarrior69]

+1. Even Wojo went postal, perhaps more than any post here (which gives me comfort btw).

This is a basketball forum.  Some are sunshine pumpers, some voice frustration, some like stats, some like observations, some like history.  Or not.  Balance is good and respected.  But if you don't like a POV different than your own, don't come here.

Are we supposed to wait two more years to discuss MU hoops?  But only the good stuff?

Watch it! You might get banned.

[jutaw22mu]

It's not really about losing to Villanova. I'm sure a majority expected it. It's frustrating seeing a coach in his third season fielding a seven-man roster (OK, eight; forgot about Heldt). It's also frustrating seeing the effort that was exhibited for that coach.

+1

[jutaw22mu]

+1. Even Wojo went postal, perhaps more than any post here (which gives me comfort btw).

This is a basketball forum.  Some are sunshine pumpers, some voice frustration, some like stats, some like observations, some like history.  Or not.  Balance is good and respected.  But if you don't like a POV different than your own, don't come here.

Are we supposed to wait two more years to discuss MU hoops?  But only the good stuff?

+2

[muwarrior69]

Exactly.  I often choose to do something else too.  And as each mediocre season goes by, I get less and less invested.  But it's never about one game we had a one in a hundred chance of winning.

For someone who donates to MU much more  generously than I do, that saddens me. As disappointing as the last few seasons have been I still cheer the team on. If kids are quitting because Wojo is bringing in the talent we're heading in the right direction and I don't expect too many more mediocre seasons.

[Boone]

well put, as always, Doc

[GGGG]

+1. Even Wojo went postal, perhaps more than any post here (which gives me comfort btw).

This is a basketball forum.  Some are sunshine pumpers, some voice frustration, some like stats, some like observations, some like history.  Or not.  Balance is good and respected.  But if you don't like a POV different than your own, don't come here.

Are we supposed to wait two more years to discuss MU hoops?  But only the good stuff?

If you think this is what brew is saying, you should probably read a little more carefully. 

[brewcity77]

+1. Even Wojo went postal, perhaps more than any post here (which gives me comfort btw).

This is a basketball forum.  Some are sunshine pumpers, some voice frustration, some like stats, some like observations, some like history.  Or not.  Balance is good and respected.  But if you don't like a POV different than your own, don't come here.

Are we supposed to wait two more years to discuss MU hoops?  But only the good stuff?

I'm perfectly fine with constructive discussion. What pisses me off is the people who act like there are no positives and it's always all gloom and doom. Who somehow think that we should have a better product on the court without realizing we already do have a better product on the court. Is this team perfect? No. Definitely not. But this year is better than last year, and last year was better than the year before that. So what are people sick of? Progress? Improvement?

I hate the Chicken Little mindset that only sees the sky falling and only wants to weigh in on the negatives. I know those people are here and I will dispute their points. I will call them out on their bullsh!t just like plenty of others have called me out on mine in the past. If watching Marquette basketball is that agonizing, I'm genuinely curious why people bother. Though I suppose I should set this to automatically bump this on January 24, because after we've likely lost three in a row, everyone will lose their crap all over again.

[jsglow]

For someone who donates to MU much more  generously than I do, that saddens me. As disappointing as the last few seasons have been I still cheer the team on. If kids are quitting because Wojo is bringing in the talent we're heading in the right direction and I don't expect too many more mediocre seasons.

Appreciate though that basketball in no way impacts our commitment to the university.  It just means that hoops gets less 'mental attention' than when the team is good.  I too hope that better times are in the future.

[Oregon Warrior]

I'm perfectly fine with constructive discussion. What pisses me off is the people who act like there are no positives and it's always all gloom and doom. Who somehow think that we should have a better product on the court without realizing we already do have a better product on the court. Is this team perfect? No. Definitely not. But this year is better than last year, and last year was better than the year before that. So what are people sick of? Progress? Improvement?

I hate the Chicken Little mindset that only sees the sky falling and only wants to weigh in on the negatives. I know those people are here and I will dispute their points. I will call them out on their bullsh!t just like plenty of others have called me out on mine in the past. If watching Marquette basketball is that agonizing, I'm genuinely curious why people bother. Though I suppose I should set this to automatically bump this on January 24, because after we've likely lost three in a row, everyone will lose their crap all over again.

The season isn't over yet so how can you say so definitively that progress has been made? That seems awfully subjective. If progress is determined by wins and losses vs quality opponents, we have played five potential tournament teams thus far. Michigan, Pitt, Wisconsin, Seton Hall and Villanova. We are 0-5 vs those teams. Michigan and Nova destroyed us. Seton Hall and Pitt could have been wins but weren't and Wisconsin was close for a half. I don't think anyone is big on moral victories so is 0-5 progress to you? There is a lot of season left so they can turn things around but as of right now, I'm struggling to see the progress you speak of.

[ecompt]

Nice post, Brew. We are better than we were in Buzz's last season, when he quit on the team. The question is whether the progress can be maintained. Howard and Hauser are keepers, but next year's freshmen are going to have to play 25-30 minutes a night simply because we're not going to have the bodies to bang in the BE. Haanif is too good to struggle forever, so there's hope there. I think the key is the 2018 recruiting class. We need at least one 6'8 bruiser and a 6-4 guard to add to next year's class. Frustrating to look that far ahead, but until that time there are nights we are going to get shelled. As for the Fischer stats, when you are the tallest player on the floor and go back-to-back games without a defensive rebound, something is wrong. It would be one thing if he was being lured away from the basket and was able to stop someone 10 feet out, but that's not the case. He simply has to play harder, and he himself said so last night.