Quit Whining

[vogue65]

I totally agree that both the student body and the MUScoop fan base tend to demonstrate an attitude of entitlement.  A lack of historical perspective is unpleasant to witness.   Yes, look at the building and fall of UCLA or the building of Duke, or the early teams of Al McGuire,  the long picture is a very interesting subject. We live in a world of instant gratification.

I  think one of the problems is that we went from one extreme to the other over night.  We are suffering from whiplash. 

To have it the way you want it, you have to give up the way you have it.  Not so easy for anyone, the old, the young or the millennials.

Anyone can be a fan of a front-runner, it takes character to stick with a team that is struggling. That is the opposite of entitlement.

[real chili 83]

ND sucks

[real chili 83]

Any surprises on who started the other thread?

[tower912]

Testify, Lieutenant.   

[muwarrior97]

Man, are we a sad fanbase full of entitled crybabies. I don't think I've ever seen Heisenberg ever be so absolutely goddamn RIGHT before. And this isn't just for the occasional, drive-by posters that only show up after losses, this includes the long-time posters and regulars that lose their minds whenever we lose.

First, the people who say they are "sick of the losing". FFS, get a damn grip. A program like Villanova's isn't built overnight. It took Jay Wright 4 years to get to the tournament and 13 to build the dynasty we see today. So we've missed the tourney for 3 straight...boo freaking hoo. The 2014 team was dead in the water without Vander, 2015 was the worst roster we've had since the Piano Man, and it's been nothing but progress since. Last year we won 20 games, and yes there were cupcakes, but 12 were against high majors including 4 wins over tournament teams. This year we are clearly better than last year. So what the hell are we complaining about?

We got stomped at Villanova. Realize they are 44-1 in their last 45 home games, and that 1 took overtime to beat them. They haven't lost at home in regulation in nearly 3 years. It's still just one loss, and a game we were supposed to lose. Did anyone really expect we were going to win yesterday? When we look at Villanova, we are looking at the team we hope to become. It took them the better part of two decades to become what they are now, and somehow this entitled, crybaby fanbase thinks Wojo should be able to do it in what, 2-1/2 years? Good god, get a freaking grip and come back to reality.

I'm also sick of tossing our seniors under the bus repeatedly. So Luke didn't get any defensive boards. As a team we didn't get any defensive boards because THEY DIDN'T MISS. You don't get a rebound when the only sound you are hearing is a soft "swish". And lord, is there any more of a whipping boy than JJ? I can't remember someone getting beat up by his own fanbase this badly since Vander Blue. When we win, JJ is the man, everyone loves him, when we lose, JJ sucks and has no heart. Shut up. JJ leads the team in assist rate, steal percentage, defensive rebounding percentage, and scoring. He pretty much does everything for us. Yet he's the first one we throw under the bus when things go wrong.

The defense posts are a bit tired too. The defense was fine against Georgetown and Seton Hall. The defense has definitely improved as the season went on. Further, I'm seeing posts that say Haanif, Sam, and Howard are fine on defense. This is a process. This will take time. And if our best defenders are our underclassmen, how about not giving up on them before they are halfway through their eligibility? The offense is light years ahead of where it was two years ago, and I'll take this year's defense over either of the past two years (including the zone in 2015 that masked our deficiencies).

And finally, the comparisons to Buzz. Good grief. For anyone who doesn't realize it, Buzz was ran out of here for a reason. We can deny all we want, but Buzz's whole thing about "character revealed" was the most accurate thing he ever talked about, and quite a few of the kids he recruited didn't have the character we expect. All the crap with Mayo, all the crap with the sexual assault, all the stuff we liked to write off as "wrong place, wrong time", well that happened because we had a coach that brought those kinds of players in, that tried to sweep things under the rug, and whose own character was as flawed as anything, as shown by him running out the door as soon as he didn't get everything his way. It doesn't matter if he's killing it at Va Tech or if it's a basement fire, the simple reality is that the powers that be weren't willing to go with the win at all costs angle. They want kids that were going to graduate, kids that were going to be written about in the sports pages, not the news pages, and a program that we can be proud of on and off the court.

That means going through a process that takes time. Buzz is great at the quick rebuild. Wojo's focus is on the long haul. Guys like Carlino, Ellenson, and Reinhardt have helped mask deficiencies, but this program is now about the four year kids like Cheatham, Heldt, Hauser, Howard, John, and Cain that will make their impact felt as they age. So let's freaking let them age and accept that while we aren't there yet, progress is unquestionably being made, we have been better every single season under Wojo, and building a program that is self-sustaining doesn't happen in a couple months or a couple seasons, but rather over 5 years, 10 years, and more than that.

We're a bunch of entitled babies. And it's not the young posters, it's not the millennials, it's the crotchety old men, STHs, and long-time posters that are just as bad as anyone else.

++++++

Beautiful post!

Quoting so the F-Tard Whiners have to see it again

[Daniel]

Brew - you make too much sense.  It is not kind of you to innudate this board with rational thought.   

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Good post. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

N/P

[geps]

The season isn't over yet so how can you say so definitively that progress has been made? That seems awfully subjective. If progress is determined by wins and losses vs quality opponents, we have played five potential tournament teams thus far. Michigan, Pitt, Wisconsin, Seton Hall and Villanova. We are 0-5 vs those teams. Michigan and Nova destroyed us. Seton Hall and Pitt could have been wins but weren't and Wisconsin was close for a half. I don't think anyone is big on moral victories so is 0-5 progress to you? There is a lot of season left so they can turn things around but as of right now, I'm struggling to see the progress you speak of.

Georgia also potential NCAA team whom we beat on the road. That counts as 2 wins. so 2-5.

[fjm]

Well said brew!


Too bad we lost to Michigan early in the season and lost half the scoopers that cry if we don't go undefeated.

Oh well, they will be happier cheering for Kentucky.

[Eldon]

Excellent stuff, brew. I woke up yesterday and decided to ski the fresh powder rather than watch us lose to Villanova. Not out of protest but simply because we all knew we were going to lose, and we knew there was hardly a chance we'd even make it close. Everyone penciled in a loss from the day schedule came out and for good reason. Nova is a freakin' powerhouse.

After I tucked into an evening Avery craft brew, checked Scoop and couldn't believe the negativity following a game we knew for sure we'd lose. I thought it went without saying that getting whipped by the #1 team in the country and defending national champions on the road says NOTHING about where this program is.

[Stretchdeltsig]

There is nothing wrong with expecting to win.  Losing is for losers.  We want to win.  Wojo has been given all the resources necessary to win.  It's been 3 years and we still have a shallow roster that has a difficult time competing.  It is very disappointing.

[fjm]

There is nothing wrong with expecting to win.  Losing is for losers.  We want to win.  Wojo has been given all the resources necessary to win.  It's been 3 years and we still have a shallow roster that has a difficult time competing.  It is very disappointing.

If we had beat Pitt and SHU would you be still saying the same?

I would bet no. Those were two losses where our team coughed it up.
Only 3 games where they couldn't compete so far. 2 games where we couldn't finish.

[wadesworld]

Georgia also potential NCAA team whom we beat on the road. That counts as 2 wins. so 2-5.

Sssshhhh, that doesn't fit the agenda.

[Newsdreams]

Any surprises on who started the other thread?

Yo, Chili!

[brewcity77]

The season isn't over yet so how can you say so definitively that progress has been made? That seems awfully subjective. If progress is determined by wins and losses vs quality opponents, we have played five potential tournament teams thus far. Michigan, Pitt, Wisconsin, Seton Hall and Villanova. We are 0-5 vs those teams. Michigan and Nova destroyed us. Seton Hall and Pitt could have been wins but weren't and Wisconsin was close for a half. I don't think anyone is big on moral victories so is 0-5 progress to you? There is a lot of season left so they can turn things around but as of right now, I'm struggling to see the progress you speak of.

Anyone that can watch last year's team and this year's team and not see that this year's team is definitively better is blind.

[MU82]

You're on fire, brewski!

[Newsdreams]

Anyone that can watch last year's team and this year's team and not see that this year's team is definitively better is blind.

True!

[jesmu84]

There is nothing wrong with expecting to win.  Losing is for losers.  We want to win.  Wojo has been given all the resources necessary to win.  It's been 3 years and we still have a shallow roster that has a difficult time competing.  It is very disappointing.

I don't understand what this means. We will never be a Duke, UNC, UK, Kansas, etc when it comes to recruiting. So we have to do it other ways outside of elite recruits.

What resources does Wojo have that you would expect him to build a sustained winner/sweet 16 team/whatever your expectation is (from a crap-pile) in 3 years?

[bilsu]

Nice post, Brew. We are better than we were in Buzz's last season, when he quit on the team. The question is whether the progress can be maintained. Howard and Hauser are keepers, but next year's freshmen are going to have to play 25-30 minutes a night simply because we're not going to have the bodies to bang in the BE. Haanif is too good to struggle forever, so there's hope there. I think the key is the 2018 recruiting class. We need at least one 6'8 bruiser and a 6-4 guard to add to next year's class. Frustrating to look that far ahead, but until that time there are nights we are going to get shelled. As for the Fischer stats, when you are the tallest player on the floor and go back-to-back games without a defensive rebound, something is wrong. It would be one thing if he was being lured away from the basket and was able to stop someone 10 feet out, but that's not the case. He simply has to play harder, and he himself said so last night.

I do not think this true. Buzz's last year he went 9-9 in conference and the team was very close to having a much better record, but the team lost several overtime games. The team achieving a 9-9 record with Derrick and Thomas as starting guards was in hindsight a pretty amazing coaching accomplishment. We just did not see it that way, because we had much higher expectations.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The season isn't over yet so how can you say so definitively that progress has been made? That seems awfully subjective. If progress is determined by wins and losses vs quality opponents, we have played five potential tournament teams thus far. Michigan, Pitt, Wisconsin, Seton Hall and Villanova. We are 0-5 vs those teams. Michigan and Nova destroyed us. Seton Hall and Pitt could have been wins but weren't and Wisconsin was close for a half. I don't think anyone is big on moral victories so is 0-5 progress to you? There is a lot of season left so they can turn things around but as of right now, I'm struggling to see the progress you speak of.

I would add Georgia to the list of potential tourney teams.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I do not think this true. Buzz's last year he went 9-9 in conference and the team was very close to having a much better record, but the team lost several overtime games. The team achieving a 9-9 record with Derrick and Thomas as starting guards was in hindsight a pretty amazing coaching accomplishment. We just did not see it that way, because we had much higher expectations.

Disagree. That team finished barely top 100. This team will finish at least top 75. I still think we are on track for NCAA bid. Gotta win 9 of the next 15.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Disagree. That team finished barely top 100. This team will finish at least top 75. I still think we are on track for NCAA bid. Gotta win 9 of the next 15.

KenPom 68 in Buzz's last year. 

[brewcity77]

I do not think this true. Buzz's last year he went 9-9 in conference and the team was very close to having a much better record, but the team lost several overtime games. The team achieving a 9-9 record with Derrick and Thomas as starting guards was in hindsight a pretty amazing coaching accomplishment. We just did not see it that way, because we had much higher expectations.

Also disagree. That team stumbled through the non-conference, losing every game of significance and struggling far more than they should have with teams like Southern and New Hampshire. We're better at almost every position this year. The only guy on that team that would be starting for us now would be Jamil. Gardner would get minutes, but even with his shortcomings Luke is a better two-way player than Ox ever was.

[bilsu]

Disagree. That team finished barely top 100. This team will finish at least top 75. I still think we are on track for NCAA bid. Gotta win 9 of the next 15.

I think you are disagreeing about which team is better and that remains to be seen. I was more thinking about the notion that Buzz quit on the team. That would indicate his last team greatly underachieved. Based on preseason expectations that team certainly underachieved. However, I was pointing out that winning 9 conference games with that starting back court was an amazing accomplishment. This year's team certainly is more talented in the backcourt, but it  remains to be seen if it will win 9 conference games. Let me ask you this. Do you think Wojo would of won 9 conference games with Buzz's last team? If your answer is no than how can it be that Buzz quit on his last team?