Butt whoopin

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ok smart guy, without being condescending, please explain what, from last night's game (besides the obvious that MH is a stud), gives you hope that MU basketball is going to improve in the future? Is it unreasonable to expect to finish in the top half of the conference?

52.4% eFG% against a top 10 defense.
48.6% OR%, best of the Wojo era.
The youngings are better than the seniors, projects well for future growth
In a game where Nova was going off, Hart was pretty much his average. Cheatham's strong defensive streak continued.
Despite getting down big, the players responded and fought back hard. Cut it to 12 by the end. Yes it was still a blow out but Nova never pulled their starters....which was interesting.
27% FTR against a team in the top 10 in the country at not committing fouls.
I liked seeing firey Wojo, getting the T and demanding better play

Nova is a very good team. Clearly much better than Marquette. That's a reality. Sometimes when you play a very good team, you get your butt handed to you. Not an excuse, just a thing that happens. Hell, it sometimes happens against not so good teams, Buzz just got his rear end roasted much worse by an NC State team that is vastly inferior to Nova. This blow out doesn't change our postseason chances anymore than a close loss would have. In fact, because we covered, our KenPom rating is likely going to go up! We could come out against Seton Hall and run them out of the gym. Let's see how our guys respond.

[rocky_warrior]

Despite getting down big, the players responded and fought back hard. Cut it to 12 by the end. Yes it was still a blow out but Nova never pulled their starters....which was interesting.

Notable too, that 81 pts is the most Nova has given up this year.  They've played some good offensive teams (@ #15 Purdue, @ #10 Creighton) and gave up less, so this is something to hang our hat on.

Just like before Georgetown, we need to tighten up defense, and things should get better (in terms of W/L).

[NotAnAlum]

Nova's four factors were absurd:
eFG%: 79.6%
TO%: 20.2%
OR%: 40%
FTR: 44.9%

It's not hard to see where the issues were. Defense is the main culprit. As Dr. B pointed out, worst D rating in the modern era. Most of this is on our inability to on ball defend, but some of this is on luck too. Nova shot 23% above their season average for threes. That's a combination of poor 3PT defense and luck.

I think a lot of this what catching Nova on an incredibly hot night. They start 4 good shooters which allows them to space the floor and its almost inevitable that a team is going to give up some open 3s.  That's why this offense is so effective.  But last night the Nova big 4 where in a whole different universe.  They shot 3s at a rate of 14-20 = 70%.  To put that in perspective the same guys shot free throws at 61%.  I honestly think that when something is this out of normal you've got to attribute a lot of it to luck and a hot night.  By comparison when Nova played DePaul the same guys shot 27% from 3.  I've watched DePaul play and I'd question if their 3 point defense is any better than MUs leave alone 3 times better.  What I saw was that Nova was so hot that MU had to try to play all the shooters tighter because the 3 point barrage was just pulling the game away.  It was when then that that the interior defense really started to weaken.  One thing I would say was that MU's rebounding of the 3s wasn't great.  On the rare time Nova would miss a 3 they almost always got the rebound and a second shot.(which of course went in).  MU's biggest defense lapses where on those second chance shot where a shooter would be completely wide open but that happens when you don't get the rebound.  Once our guys started to get desperate in the second half the wheels really came off but that also will happen when you try to force tempo against a great defensive team like Nova.  So I'd recommend we not get too depressed about these stats and focus more on what happens when we play a team that is more at our level when everyone isn't having the night of their lives.

[jutaw22mu]

52.4% eFG% against a top 10 defense.
48.6% OR%, best of the Wojo era.
The youngings are better than the seniors, projects well for future growth
In a game where Nova was going off, Hart was pretty much his average. Cheatham's strong defensive streak continued.
Despite getting down big, the players responded and fought back hard. Cut it to 12 by the end. Yes it was still a blow out but Nova never pulled their starters....which was interesting.
27% FTR against a team in the top 10 in the country at not committing fouls.
I liked seeing firey Wojo, getting the T and demanding better play

Nova is a very good team. Clearly much better than Marquette. That's a reality. Sometimes when you play a very good team, you get your butt handed to you. Not an excuse, just a thing that happens. Hell, it sometimes happens against not so good teams, Buzz just got his rear end roasted much worse by an NC State team that is vastly inferior to Nova. This blow out doesn't change our postseason chances anymore than a close loss would have. In fact, because we covered, our KenPom rating is likely going to go up! We could come out against Seton Hall and run them out of the gym. Let's see how our guys respond.

All excellent points.  Would love to see this team put it together vs SHU on Wed.

[fjm]

You have been using a condescending tone to a lot of people on this board, not just me.  We all see the young talent and are excited about it.  I am sick of people coming up with excuses for why we are losing so atrociously.  Excuses are for losers.

I respect you. But to be honest, when we win games, I don't remember ever seeing you in any thread. So yes, Heisy is right. You seem to only show up after a loss.

But having said that, you're not alone. There are plenty "loss scoopers" that only show up when we lose.

Good for you!

[Lennys Tap]

Notable too, that 81 pts is the most Nova has given up this year.  They've played some good offensive teams (@ #15 Purdue, @ #10 Creighton) and gave up less, so this is something to hang our hat on.

While I would agree that we're a good offensive team, I think our 81 points last night were a bit deceiving. In the final 3:46 we scored 18 points, winning garbage time 18-2. Our offense (and even our defense, shudder) look better in the box score than they actually were.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

NC State was down at #14 NC by 33...AT HALFTIME.  For the idiots who think it is impossible to ever get taken to the woodshed on the road to a highly ranked team...

[jutaw22mu]

I respect you. But to be honest, when we win games, I don't remember ever seeing you in any thread. So yes, Heisy is right. You seem to only show up after a loss.

But having said that, you're not alone. There are plenty "loss scoopers" that only show up when we lose.

Good for you!

Thats not entirely true. I took a very long hiatus from posting on this board probably beginning around 2011 or 2012. I still viewed the board periodically and participated in game chats (using a diff name DrJ) but did not have time to post.  I made my first post in a long time after the SHU loss.  I haven't been given the opportunity to show up after a win since I returned, but I will.

[jutaw22mu]

NC State was down at #14 NC by 33...AT HALFTIME.  For the idiots who think it is impossible to ever get taken to the woodshed on the road to a highly ranked team...

Here we are, engaging in name calling, again.  How rude.

It does not make someone an idiot to expect a certain level of competitiveness from the team, which was visibly absent last night.  Even Wojo acknowledged that.  So he must be an idiot too, if he saw the same things that some of us saw.

[fjm]

Thats not entirely true. I took a very long hiatus from posting on this board probably beginning around 2011 or 2012. I still viewed the board periodically and participated in game chats (using a diff name DrJ) but did not have time to post.  I made my first post in a long time after the SHU loss.  I haven't been given the opportunity to show up after a win since I returned, but I will.

Very fair! I probably wasn't here back then. Didn't know about this amazing place!

I hope you get the chance to post after we beat SHU on Wednesday!

[jutaw22mu]

Very fair! I probably wasn't here back then. Didn't know about this amazing place!

I hope you get the chance to post after we beat SHU on Wednesday!

Haha I would like nothing more!  Let's beat the pirates!!!

[Badgerhater]

Never going to fault a team that aspires to improve to middle-of-the-pack status get taken to the woodshed by a #1 team.  That is what #1 teams do.   Hopefully, MU will make a better showing in the rematch, even if only in defeat.

What a team that inspires to improve its place in the pecking order cannot continue to do is lose close games to the likes of Seton Hall.   If a few more of those come to pass, then MU will find itself in the bottom half of the league.

[rocky_warrior]

While I would agree that we're a good offensive team, I think our 81 points last night were a bit deceiving. In the final 3:46 we scored 18 points, winning garbage time 18-2. Our offense (and even our defense, shudder) look better in the box score than they actually were.

Other teams had "garbage time" against Nova and didn't match our point total.   Look at their game against Wake Forest.  Nova won 96-77.  At the 4 minute mark, the score was 89-75.  At the the 2 minute mark it was 94-75.  I'd argue the box score is 100% indicative of the actual production on the court. MU scoring 18, and limiting Nova to 2 was a good close to the game - mostly with Nova's starters in the game.

At least we agree that MU is a good offensive team.  You just seem to disagree that we scored more points against Nova than any other team so far this year.  hah

[brewcity77]

Ok smart guy, without being condescending, please explain what, from last night's game (besides the obvious that MH is a stud), gives you hope that MU basketball is going to improve in the future? Is it unreasonable to expect to finish in the top half of the conference?

We averaged 1.25 points per possession last night against Villanova's defense. That's the best scoring rate against Nova since December 19, 2015 when Virginia beat them, and the most for a team playing away against Nova since January 20, 2014 when Creighton beat them behind 50 points from Wragge and McBuckets. It's been over a year since anyone played as well offensively against them as we did yesterday, and almost 3 years since anyone played as well offensively on the road against them. Our offense is excellent. This is the most efficient offense a Marquette team has had since 2003.

Is finishing in the top half unreasonable? Not at all. Sweep DePaul, St. John's, and Providence to get to 7 wins. Then get 3 more in our other 9 games against the rest of the league (4 of those at home) and we're 10-8 in league and likely in the top half. Trainwrecks like yesterday usually bring out the most negativity, but if you look objectively, there's no reason to think the season is over or sky has fallen.

[MU82]

We all expected to lose but did anyone truly expect to lose the way we did? I didn't. Maybe if we were a D3 team one could expect that type of performance. Even DePaul, who we all think we are superior to, managed to play a competitive game with them. LOL.

And even Marquette, unlike DePaul, managed to stay within 1,000 points of Seton Hall.

And even Marquette, unlike Okla-effen-homa in last year's Final Four, managed to stay within a million points of Nova.

And even Marquette, unlike the Va Tech Buzzards, didn't just get throttled twice in a row - including once by an NC State team that lost by a bazillion to UNC.

I mean, what's your point here?

Nova is the defending national champion and has been the No. 1-ranked team in the country for a month. (And yet some here "just don't see" them as being all that good, which is hilarious.) They were coming off a tough loss at Butler and were returning home to face a less experienced, less talented team. They beat the snot out of said team.

Sure, I hoped we would do better ... but no, I am not the least bit surprised that our lads got the snot beat out of them on the road by a team stocked with veterans from the squad that won the national championship 8 months ago.

[jutaw22mu]

We averaged 1.25 points per possession last night against Villanova's defense. That's the best scoring rate against Nova since December 19, 2015 when Virginia beat them, and the most for a team playing away against Nova since January 20, 2014 when Creighton beat them behind 50 points from Wragge and McBuckets. It's been over a year since anyone played as well offensively against them as we did yesterday, and almost 3 years since anyone played as well offensively on the road against them. Our offense is excellent. This is the most efficient offense a Marquette team has had since 2003.

Is finishing in the top half unreasonable? Not at all. Sweep DePaul, St. John's, and Providence to get to 7 wins. Then get 3 more in our other 9 games against the rest of the league (4 of those at home) and we're 10-8 in league and likely in the top half. Trainwrecks like yesterday usually bring out the most negativity, but if you look objectively, there's no reason to think the season is over or sky has fallen.

Good points, Brew.  Our offense definitely is much improved compared to recent years!  I hope you are right about being able to attain a 10-8 league record.  I would be happy with that.  I hope we see more of a commitment to defense in the next few games (our defense vs SHU was actually quite good for the most part).

[bilsu]

I'm sorry but could you please explain to me what coaching errors you saw tonight that would require Wojo to give up his paycheck?  What I saw were two teams at vastly different talent levels, not a team that was masterfully coached and one where the coaching was abysmal.

I did not think Wojo coaching was bad in the game. However, Villanova's offense so much efficiently run. That is part coaching, part player's experience, part players talent and part players being coachable. I am not sure were JJJ and Cheatham fall in those catorgories, but I thought they both hurt MU more last night than Fischer did. Fischer was kind of non-existant, but no one was trying to get the ball to him. The last few games the typical Cheatham play is a drive to the basket with a huge spin move to throw up an out of control shot. JJJ at least has the ability to passed the ball off on his drives, wich gives him a lot of assists, but it also results in a lot of turnovers. Both are so predictiable that neither of them draw a lot of fouls.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Here we are, engaging in name calling, again.  How rude.

It does not make someone an idiot to expect a certain level of competitiveness from the team, which was visibly absent last night.  Even Wojo acknowledged that.  So he must be an idiot too, if he saw the same things that some of us saw.

Well, I wasn't specifically referring to one person, but if someone repeatedly says idiotic things I am going to point out that they are repeatedly saying idiotic things.

[brewcity77]

I said yesterday on Twitter and still fully believe that we could beat this Villanova team on the right day. Yesterday wasn't it, but we can shoot with them. We can score with them. Yes, they made us look absolutely silly at times yesterday, but shooting 60.9% from three? I wonder if 'Nova would've done that in an empty gym. Seriously, as bad as our defense was, their offense performed way over expectations.

And yes, the 12-point loss wasn't indicative of how one-sided it was at times, but they had their starters in until the final minute and we did close the game on a 23-5 run over the last 6 minutes against those starters.

It was a bad game, but it was still just one game. Had we lost it by 12, 30, or on a buzzer-beating three, the end result is the same. Move on and bear in mind that our next two games at home are far more winnable than that one ever was.

[Jay Bee]

eFG% reigns supreme, a'''ina?

[Lennys Tap]

Other teams had "garbage time" against Nova and didn't match our point total.   Look at their game against Wake Forest.  Nova won 96-77.  At the 4 minute mark, the score was 89-75.  At the the 2 minute mark it was 94-75.  I'd argue the box score is 100% indicative of the actual production on the court. MU scoring 18, and limiting Nova to 2 was a good close to the game - mostly with Nova's starters in the game.

At least we agree that MU is a good offensive team.  You just seem to disagree that we scored more points against Nova than any other team so far this year.  hah

Actually we agree that MU is a good offensive team AND that we scored more points against Nova than any other team this year.

What we disagree about is the relevance of our 18-2 run in the final 3:46 that cut a 28 point lead to a 12 point loss. Had we been trailing by 16 or 10 or 4 or tied or up 2 I don't think we close with that kind of run. I think Nova would have been more focused and tried harder. And I think garbage time when a team is down 28 is different than when the margin is 14.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm glad our guys played to the final whistle. Showed character.

[MU82]

I think Wright is an outstanding coach. (I know he's tickled to have my endorsement.)

But am I the only one who thought it odd that he kept his starters in for almost the entire game? If Brunson or Hart had suffered a season-ending injury during garbage time, Wojo would not have been the coach getting criticized.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think Wright is an outstanding coach. (I know he's tickled to have my endorsement.)

But am I the only one who thought it odd that he kept his starters in for almost the entire game? If Brunson or Hart had suffered a season-ending injury during garbage time, Wojo would not have been the coach getting criticized.

I was questioning that too. Respect for our ability to score in the blink of an eye? Trying to keep his guys fresh? Or bad blood between Wojo and Wright?

[forgetful]

I was questioning that too. Respect for our ability to score in the blink of an eye? Trying to keep his guys fresh? Or bad blood between Wojo and Wright?

I think it was out of respect for our ability to score in the blink of an eye.  Hell, against the starters we got hot, and they cooled a bit and we closed it to 12 in a hurry. 

Now their starters lost some focus at the end, but they are more focused/abled than the walk-ons.  You don't want to pull the starters, have us drill 5-threes in a row and then have to bring back in unfocused and now cold starters.

[GoldenDieners32]

MU needs to play as a team..especially the seniors Luke isnt doing anything out there