Duke vs. V.T. tonight

[cheebs09]

It's a bit more than that though. 

VPI had a good recruiting class.  Since Greenberg didn't go somewhere new, they were there for the taking (couldn't follow Greenberg). 

That goes with the general differences of a replacing a coach who was fired, vs. replacing a coach that left for a new opportunity.

Buzz replaced the guy who replaced Greenberg. I believe he only coached a year or two before being fired. So the rest of your point is right on.

Also, VT was routinely a bubble team under Greenberg. Its not like Buzz took over DePaul.

[Lennys Tap]

Ellenson and Frenn are spot on - forgetful is forgetful and wades (no surprise) and sultan (surprisingly) are playing fast and loose with the facts.

[muwarrior69]

Marquette's program is fine now.  VT's was better than you think.

Seriously, it's very obvious to see why VT is in a better position now.

1. Buzz is an experienced coach
2. He fills in holes with Jucos
3. He dragged most of his freshman class to Blacksburg with him.

He may end up going further than Wojo does here.  Oh well.  Not much anyone can do about that now.

Buzz doesn't have to worry about his players off the court behavior, Wojo does.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Buzz replaced the guy who replaced Greenberg. I believe he only coached a year or two before being fired. So the rest of your point is right on.

Also, VT was routinely a bubble team under Greenberg. Its not like Buzz took over DePaul.

Here are the preceding 3 years of Ken Pom...the 83 was Greenberg's last year and DePaul may be one of the worst of the high majors (opinion).

DePaul - 151, 174, 183
VT - 83, 169, 174

[wadesworld]

Ellenson and Frenn are spot on - forgetful is forgetful and wades (no surprise) and sultan (surprisingly) are playing fast and loose with the facts.

Please enlighten me.

You think Jhalil and Tyus would've followed Wojo to MU if he tried to recruit them to do so? Interesting take. I tend to disagree, but we simply don't know I guess. Unfortunately for us they didn't.

Also wondering where James Johnson took over immediately after his time at VT to take his recruits along.

Not sure what facts I'm playing fast and loose with. Please do enlighten me all knowing Mr. Lenny.

[cheebs09]

Here are the preceding 3 years of Ken Pom...the 83 was Greenberg's last year and DePaul may be one of the worst of the high majors (opinion).

DePaul - 151, 174, 183
VT - 83, 169, 174

Wow. Didn't realize they were that bad at the end of his tenure. Prior to his last year, they made the NIT 4 straight times and the tournament before that. He may have benefited from a time where RPI far outweighed Ken Pom as a way to determine quality of teams.

[Lennys Tap]

Here are the preceding 3 years of Ken Pom...the 83 was Greenberg's last year and DePaul may be one of the worst of the high majors (opinion).

DePaul - 151, 174, 183
VT - 83, 169, 174

Yep - Buzz inherited quite a program. One NCAA appearance in 18 years and back to back to back last place finishes in the ACC. But he did bring one recruit with him who could play basketball  (whoopee!) - and if he hadn't missed all of last year with an injury VPI would have been dancing in Buzz's second year. Not too shabby.

[wadesworld]

Yep - Buzz inherited quite a program. One NCAA appearance in 18 years and back to back to back last place finishes in the ACC. But he did bring one recruit with him who could play basketball  (whoopee!) - and if he hadn't missed all of last year with an injury VPI would have been dancing in Buzz's second year. Not too shabby.

Still waiting for all these facts to come out that I don't have fully accurate.

I'll hang up and listen. While expecting you to continue to ignore the request for the facts I'm missing.

[JWags85]

Wow. Didn't realize they were that bad at the end of his tenure. Prior to his last year, they made the NIT 4 straight times and the tournament before that. He may have benefited from a time where RPI far outweighed Ken Pom as a way to determine quality of teams.

James Johnson was an AWFUL coach.  VT was 3rd and 4th in the ACC the 2 years before he was fired.  The 83 rank the year he was fired was bad, but before that they were decent bubble squads.  Johnson meanwhile did so horribly that he didnt even grab an assistant gig, he is basketball ops for Miami.

[Lennys Tap]

Still waiting for all these facts to come out that I don't have fully accurate.

I'll hang up and listen. While expecting you to continue to ignore the request for the facts I'm missing.

You claimed Buzz "took his recruiting class with him" when he went to V Tech. His recruiting class was Sandy Cohen, Marial Shayok, Ahmed Hill and project Satchel Pierce. Of the three top 150 guys, Buzz took one, Wojo took one and Tony Bennett took one. Buzz also got Pierce, who transferred. But whether one of three or two of four, it's inaccurate to say that Buzz took his "Recruiting class" with him. The second and third best guys went elsewhere.

You do this stuff frequently. Rather than having another Chico type back and forth relationship which proves toxic to the entire board, I'm bowing out. Happy New Year.

[wadesworld]

You claimed Buzz "took his recruiting class with him" when he went to V Tech. His recruiting class was Sandy Cohen, Marial Shayok, Ahmed Hill and project Satchel Pierce. Of the three top 150 guys, Buzz took one, Wojo took one and Tony Bennett took one. Buzz also got Pierce, who transferred. But whether one of three or two of four, it's inaccurate to say that Buzz took his "Recruiting class" with him. The second and third best guys went elsewhere.

You do this stuff frequently. Rather than having another Chico type back and forth relationship which proves toxic to the entire board, I'm bowing out. Happy New Year.

So Satchel doesn't count as going with Bert because he transferred out of VT but Sandy counts for staying with Wojo despite the fact that, well, he transferred out. Remind me who's playing "fast and loose with the facts," again?

Fact of the matter is Bert got his pick of his own MU recruiting class as well as Johnson's VT recruiting class while Wojo got the single leftover that Bert didn't want. Wojo was a full year behind in recruiting, so it should come as no surprise that VT would be further along in getting their program where they are hoping to get than MU is to being where they want to be.

[forgetful]

Buzz replaced the guy who replaced Greenberg. I believe he only coached a year or two before being fired. So the rest of your point is right on.

Also, VT was routinely a bubble team under Greenberg. Its not like Buzz took over DePaul.

Oops

Ellenson and Frenn are spot on - forgetful is forgetful and wades (no surprise) and sultan (surprisingly) are playing fast and loose with the facts.

Yes I was forgetful on James Johnson, but who can blame me there, his performance was forgettable. 

I do stand by Johnson having lined up a good recruiting class though (Bibbs and Hudson). 

And I stand by my general point of that we shouldn't be comparing this as there are two many differences regarding the situations; my general opinion is Buzz really had a 1-year head start because of those situations and his experience.

Beyond that, I don't want to get involved as I'm bound to forget something.

Happy New Year.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Hi, fun fact Bazz has been gone since 2014.

I hate Bazz with the power of 1000 suns but it's over.

He screwed Wojo and Marquette over to infinity but he is long gone.

Whether Wojo is the man to lead Marquette to the promise land or not, Bazz is a wuss of epic proportions because h couldn't handle the slightest bit of pressure.

[Loose Cannon]

  Are we playing VT tomorrow??

[GGGG]

Ellenson and Frenn are spot on - forgetful is forgetful and wades (no surprise) and sultan (surprisingly) are playing fast and loose with the facts.

What facts am I playing loose with?

He stepped into a better situation in year one than Wojo did, will employ tactics that will turn them aound quicker and may succeed more than Wojo does cause he's a better coach.

If people are surprised by this, they aren't paying attention.

[bilsu]

I do not believe Buzz stepped into a better situation.
First year he was last in 15 team league with a 11-22 record(two conference wins), while Wojo tied for last in a 10 team league with a 13-19 record (4 conference wins). You say Buzz had a better situation and is a better coach, but that does not agree with Buzz's first year results.

[Small Orange Soda]

What facts am I playing loose with?

He stepped into a better situation in year one than Wojo did, will employ tactics that will turn them aound quicker and may succeed more than Wojo does cause he's a better coach.

If people are surprised by this, they aren't paying attention.

What tactics is he using that Wojo can't/won't?

[The Lens]

Buzz is one of the top 15 coaches in America.  It doesn't matter where his program was when he got it, he's a phenomenal coach.  We were lucky to have him. 

[Goose]

Not sure on what the debate is about regarding Wojo vs. Buzz. At the moment it is a no brainer on who has performed better and unfortunately it is not Wojo. Time will tell on who ultimately does better but right now there is no hiding from the fact that Buzz has done a nice job at VT.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not sure on what the debate is about regarding Wojo vs. Buzz. At the moment it is a no brainer on who has performed better and unfortunately it is not Wojo. Time will tell on who ultimately does better but right now there is no hiding from the fact that Buzz has done a nice job at VT.

Buzz has done better. He got VT to the NIT last year. Wojo didn't. This year, Wojo was ahead of Buzz until the Duke win. We'll see where both teams finish this year. Wouldn't be surprised if Buzz finished ahead. He has 7 more years of head coaching experience,  he better do better than Wojo.         

[NickelDimer]

Not sure on what the debate is about regarding Wojo vs. Buzz. At the moment it is a no brainer on who has performed better and unfortunately it is not Wojo. Time will tell on who ultimately does better but right now there is no hiding from the fact that Buzz has done a nice job at VT.

The debate was about which program was more difficult to rebuild; MU or VT

[keefe]

What facts am I playing loose with?

He stepped into a better situation in year one than Wojo did, will employ tactics that will turn them aound quicker and may succeed more than Wojo does cause he's a better coach.

If people are surprised by this, they aren't paying attention.

All of what you say is opinion and not fact.

Here is a fact: Bert has VPI ranked while Wojo's team is not. Bert has his team playing at a higher level than Wojo does.

We will see who is in the Dance this year and who is not.

 

[MUBigDance]

We will see who is in the Dance this year and who is not.

Or "...who will have the higher seed". I am more bullish on MU's chances of getting in. I got to believe.

As far as Buzz/Wojo...Buzz is a great coach and Wojo is headed in the right direction.

[vogue65]

I had to watch the ESPN, YouTube, replay video a second time, because it was fun to watch.

Poor coach K. looked like he just ran into a BUZZsaw, V.T. obviously came to play, and the kids stormed the court.  How about we use storming the court in Milwaukee as a metric?

[MUBigDance]

I had to watch the ESPN, YouTube, replay video a second time, because it was fun to watch.

Poor coach K. looked like he just ran into a BUZZsaw, V.T. obviously came to play, and the kids stormed the court.  How about we use storming the court in Milwaukee as a metric?

Referring to a different thread...this is a case for a smaller more intimate arena. The Bradley Cavern is just not conducive. Give all the students lower bowl seats....ah that would be costly$.....We'd also need to beat a Villanova to generate it.