Duke vs. V.T. tonight

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Yes, that is exactly what I  mean.  I  understand the basketball centric rationalization.

The subject never comes up because it is a difficult subject.  It came up very often in the late 60's and 70's when Al was runnining the show and Marquette was an independent.  Then the leagues took over, everone had to join a league and now we are in exactly the kind of league that Al wanted to avoid. 

We are lucky to be in the Big East, and the Big East is lucky to have us.

Now let me go to an extreme to make a point, imagine a Big 20, East and West Divisions.

San Francisco,  Gonzaga, Creighton, St. Marys, Marquette, Butler, De Paul, St. Louis, Xavier, Dayton. in the West.

Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Vilanova, Georgetown, St. Bonaventure, St. Josephs, Niagra, Detroit, and Duquesne in the East.     

How does that sound?    To many people the Big East sounds, as currently constituted, similar.

ABD

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Yes, that is exactly what I  mean.

So exactly how do you think it tarnishes Marquette and/or the Big East?  It what way are we negatively impacted?  TV contract?  Recruits?  Coaches? Other?

I'm pretty anti-organized religion, but I can't see even a whiff of a negative impact.

[brewcity77]

Those people are morons.

Look, I love Al and what he did for Marquette.  But using his thoughts from 40+ years ago on our current conference affiliation makes no sense.  He had those thoughts when a school could still be an independent.  When television contracts weren't all that lucrative and tied to conferences. 

Simply put, the landscape has changed too much.  The fact that nine of the ten schools are Catholic is in no way a concern.

This x1,000.

Villanova, Xavier, Butler, and Creighton are playing at an elite level. Georgetown and Marquette are elite names. The rest have done enough over the years to justify being here (okay...maybe not DePaul, but someone's gotta lose). This conference is at absolute worst one of the top-three conferences in the country. At worst. And anyone trying to judge this conference on some silly, 40-year-old criteria needs to realize it's not the 1970s anymore.

[Galway Eagle]

This x1,000.

Villanova, Xavier, Butler, and Creighton are playing at an elite level. Georgetown and Marquette are elite names. The rest have done enough over the years to justify being here (okay...maybe not DePaul, but someone's gotta lose). This conference is at absolute worst one of the top-three conferences in the country. At worst. And anyone trying to judge this conference on some silly, 40-year-old criteria needs to realize it's not the 1970s anymore.

This is pretty important because 90% of the rest of the conference's success came after Al was around.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

This is pretty important because 90% of the rest of the conference's success came after Al was around.

I don't think he is arguing that those teams shouldn't be included because they weren't historically successful in the 70's, I think he is strictly arguing that it shouldn't be a conference with schools all with similar/same religious affiliation.  I honestly don't know why Al felt that way (or if he even did), maybe for the same reason some people thought Kennedy couldn't be elected because people wouldn't vote for a Catholic as President?

In any event, that time has passed and I don't see anyone even refer to it as a league with a religious affiliation much less have that affiliation impact MU basketball negatively.

[Dr. Blackheart]

First of all, regarding being an independent, it was an advantage for Marquette then as the regional/syndicated sports networks like Eddie Einhorn's TVS would put MU on prime weekend slots.  Conference teams would usually only be carried locally, if at all.  MU would get national exposure, full revenue, and all their NCAA money. 

The advent of cable TV changed the game and the BE was borne with ESPN and WGN Superstation locked up DePaul. MU passed on the BE at the same time the Piano Man sunk us.  Through a series of conference moves, Cords saved us.

As to Buzz bashing the BE, in order to had to claim that his contract had materially changed in order to enact the escape clause.  The AD and league changes gave him cover after Wild and Cords told Buzz to hold off for his agenda until the new admin was hired).

The ironic thing is that it was Larry leaving that he used to pop that cork (the Larry, who spent most of his time looking for a way to bounce Buzz or renegotiate those clad iron outs).

Lesson learned on all of this:  Keep the academic administration and BOT out of the basketball business decisions.  They will fook it up nine times out of ten.

[GGGG]

By "academic administration" do you mean the president of the university?

[Dr. Blackheart]

By "academic administration" do you mean the president of the university?

Not limited to, in both cases.

[GGGG]

The president should absolutely be involved in "basketball business decisions." It is ultimately his responsibility.  They just have to be competent at it.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The president should absolutely be involved in "basketball business decisions." It is ultimately his responsibility.  They just have to be competent at it.

Which is why you have an Athletics Director/VP.  "Involved" and "Approving" are two different things.  Buck Raynor was a great university president with oversight by the Marquette Athletics Board...and they took basketball for granted, but at least corrected himself with hiring Cords and empowered him.

Pilarz and crew...well...

Fr. Wild got it right. Both times.

[vogue65]

First of all, regarding being an independent, it was an advantage for Marquette then as the regional/syndicated sports networks like Eddie Einhorn's TVS would put MU on prime weekend slots.  Conference teams would usually only be carried locally, if at all.  MU would get national exposure, full revenue, and all their NCAA money. 

The advent of cable TV changed the game and the BE was borne with ESPN and WGN Superstation locked up DePaul. MU passed on the BE at the same time the Piano Man sunk us.  Through a series of conference moves, Cords saved us.

As to Buzz bashing the BE, in order to had to claim that his contract had materially changed in order to enact the escape clause.  The AD and league changes gave him cover after Wild and Cords told Buzz to hold off for his agenda until the new admin was hired).

The ironic thing is that it was Larry leaving that he used to pop that cork (the Larry, who spent most of his time looking for a way to bounce Buzz or renegotiate those clad iron outs).

Lesson learned on all of this:  Keep the academic administration and BOT out of the basketball business decisions.  They will fook it up nine times out of ten.

Lesson learned is that when you have a lawyer in charge you get a legal decision, an engineer, an engineering decision, an accountant sn accounting decision, etc., etc.

Who are the BOT's, do-gooders, philanthropists, socialites, academics, fundraisers,  successful people in their field, networkers, politoicos, lucky dogs, and a few tokens.  Not exactly a tiger team to make good athletic decisions.

[Newsdreams]

Lesson learned is that when you have a lawyer in charge you get a legal decision, an engineer, an engineering decision, an accountant sn accounting decision, etc., etc.

Who are the BOT's, do-gooders, philanthropists, socialites, academics, fundraisers,  successful people in their field, networkers, politoicos, lucky dogs, and a few tokens.  Not exactly a tiger team to make good athletic decisions.

So Doc' Rivers don't know, hey?

[🏀]

Yes, that is exactly what I  mean.  I  understand the basketball centric rationalization.

The subject never comes up because it is a difficult subject.  It came up very often in the late 60's and 70's when Al was runnining the show and Marquette was an independent.  Then the leagues took over, everone had to join a league and now we are in exactly the kind of league that Al wanted to avoid. 

We are lucky to be in the Big East, and the Big East is lucky to have us.

Now let me go to an extreme to make a point, imagine a Big 20, East and West Divisions.

San Francisco,  Gonzaga, Creighton, St. Marys, Marquette, Butler, De Paul, St. Louis, Xavier, Dayton. in the West.

Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Vilanova, Georgetown, St. Bonaventure, St. Josephs, Niagra, Detroit, and Duquesne in the East.     

How does that sound?    To many people the Big East sounds, as currently constituted, similar.

Sounds terrible, in my opinion.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Lesson learned on all of this:  Keep the academic administration and BOT and boosters out of the basketball business decisions.  They will fook it up nine times out of ten.

FIFY

Of course the basketball's purpose is to ultimately serve the academic administration so they need to have at least oversight.

I'm curious, what basketball business decision did you think that the academic administration and BOT fooked up? I disagreed with a lot of that decisions that resulted in the Williams v. Williams fued, but those came with the support of the athletic director.

[Dr. Blackheart]

FIFY

Of course the basketball's purpose is to ultimately serve the academic administration so they need to have at least oversight.

I'm curious, what basketball business decision did you think that the academic administration and BOT fooked up? I disagreed with a lot of that decisions that resulted in the Williams v. Williams fued, but those came with the support of the athletic director.

Not joining the Big East originally, realizing the cable TV was going to change everything. Passing on Denny Crum, Digger Phelps. Going cheap.  Thinking the Old Gym was state of the Art. Making Al's life hell.

[GGGG]

Was Marquette even asked to join the original Big East?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not joining the Big East originally, realizing the cable TV was going to change everything. Passing on Denny Crum, Digger Phelps. Going cheap.  Thinking the Old Gym was state of the Art. Making Al's life hell.

Gotcha. I wasn't alive for any of those so I have no insight.

[vogue65]

Sounds terrible, in my opinion.

That's my point .

[vogue65]

Gotcha. I wasn't alive for any of those so I have no insight.

Another very good point, they drove Al out as well.  They want their cake and want to eat it at the same time.   They want to be NYU or Princeton and Kentucky or Syracuse.  Can't happen.

[vogue65]

Gotcha. I wasn't alive for any of those so I have no insight.

Now there is an honest statement without anger and with some maturity.

[vogue65]

Was Marquette even asked to join the original Big East?

Are you kidding, it was before the jet age.

[vogue65]

So Doc' Rivers don't know, hey?

One out of how many? 

I think it's time for me to put my ignore button to work again and save myself some valuable time.

And I  have to rest up as the Villanova game is on at 2 in the morning here.  In the old days I  would drive to a mountain top to try and get a signal from Milwaukee on a powerful radio, yes, I'm  a little nuts.