SOTG

[GGGG]

What Jamil Wilson and JjJ have in common is that they are both better as the wingman and not the leader.   Both lack the dynamic, refuse-to-lose mentality MU had become accustomed to from its seniors.   Talented players.   Not leaders.   Both had the fate to play on a team that needed them to be leaders their senior years. 

BTW, this is why Junior Vander >>>>>>>>>>>> Senior JJJ

[wadesworld]

BTW, this is why Junior Vander >>>>>>>>>>>> Senior JJJ

Yes.  And you're missing a few hundred >'s.

[brewcity77]

What Jamil Wilson and JjJ have in common is that they are both better as the wingman and not the leader.   Both lack the dynamic, refuse-to-lose mentality MU had become accustomed to from its seniors.   Talented players.   Not leaders.   Both had the fate to play on a team that needed them to be leaders their senior years.

Frankly, we've lacked that since Vander left. Guys like the Amigos, Lazar, JFB, Crowder, Junior (for my criticisms of his game, his will to win was always there), and Blue gave us that edge in toughness. Maybe Carlino had a bit of it, but the rest of the team just wasn't at that level. Last year, nothing. This year, much of the same.

I thought I saw that in Traci, but that ship sailed. I do think Markus has it. I look forward to seeing what he does as this team starts to become his.

[MU82]

Jamil also hit 2 absolutely massive 3 pointers towards the end of the Davidson game to give us a prayer in that game.

Yes wades ... as I read the previous several posts in this thread, I kept thinking this, too.

I also kept thinking how out of character this was for Jamil, who was so willing to defer and so rarely willing to lead. I've been watching MU hoops closely since 1977, and Jamil is in my top-five for both "most frustrating player" and "most unrealized potential."

As to who is better between Jamil and JJJ ... who knows? We're all just throwing out opinions here. I was in Brooklyn and saw JJJ being willing to win a game with an aggressive drive and FTs. I also enjoyed watching him take over a few games during the second half of last season. Hopefully, we'll see more of that JJJ during Big East play. Jamil? He almost always left me saying, "Is that it?"

[tower912]

Frankly, we've lacked that since Vander left. Guys like the Amigos, Lazar, JFB, Crowder, Junior (for my criticisms of his game, his will to win was always there), and Blue gave us that edge in toughness. Maybe Carlino had a bit of it, but the rest of the team just wasn't at that level. Last year, nothing. This year, much of the same.

I thought I saw that in Traci, but that ship sailed. I do think Markus has it. I look forward to seeing what he does as this team starts to become his.

Agreed.   See a willingness in Sam to take the big shot and guard a bigger opponent.   I see flashes from Haanif, but most of the time he plays well but unemotionally.   We need some dirtbags. 

[GoldenDieners32]

JJJ almost had a triple double

[GGGG]

JJJ almost had a triple double

Points, rebounds and turnovers?

[GoldenDieners32]

Points, rebounds and turnovers?

Points, boards and assists

[GGGG]

Points, boards and assists

Yeah I was joking.  Did you watch the game?  He wasn't very good.

[MUEng92]

3. JjJ (Look at his line, he played a solid game minus the TO's)

It was a good car trip except for the head on collision

[tower912]

5 turnovers.   Could/should have been at least 7.    He threw that crapty pass that got deflected and he chased it down at mid court.   He traveled on that Euro-step lay up late.   Disinterested in d-ing up.   

[MerrittsMustache]

Yes wades ... as I read the previous several posts in this thread, I kept thinking this, too.

I also kept thinking how out of character this was for Jamil, who was so willing to defer and so rarely willing to lead. I've been watching MU hoops closely since 1977, and Jamil is in my top-five for both "most frustrating player" and "most unrealized potential."

As to who is better between Jamil and JJJ ... who knows? We're all just throwing out opinions here. I was in Brooklyn and saw JJJ being willing to win a game with an aggressive drive and FTs. I also enjoyed watching him take over a few games during the second half of last season. Hopefully, we'll see more of that JJJ during Big East play. Jamil? He almost always left me saying, "Is that it?"

This is ridiculous. Jamil has always been viewed unfairly by MU fans. He's 6'7" and fairly athletic and he "looked the part" and because of that, fans wanted him to be the next Hayward/Butler/Crowder.  The fact of the matter is that he simply was not nearly as talented as those guys. It wasn't a lack of heart or having no killer instinct, it was that he simply wasn't as good as many fans thought he should be. That's on the fans, not on Jamil. He was long and could jump, but he wasn't very quick, wasn't a great shooter and couldn't really create his own shot. His ceiling was that of a third option on a Big East team. He never had the ability to be "the man" on a high major team. He did a lot of things well but nothing great. I'd take Jamil on the current team in a heartbeat.

Much like with Jamil, MU's struggles haven't come as a result of a lack of leadership, it has come from a lack of talent. Fischer shot 4-13 last night and had several bunnies that he almost always makes rim out. Everyone has those nights. If he gets a few of those shots to fall and ends up with 16-18 points, would that have made him a better leader?

[wadesworld]

I think Rowsey and Howard are "junkyard dog" types.  Gritty, in your face players.  Unfortunately, they are both 5'8" on a good day.  I think Heldt isn't afraid to mix it up, but unfortunately he has limited athleticism and skills.  I don't think Hauser is the toughest guy in the world, but I think he's willing to mix it up defensively and has a will to win in him.  I think Katin has the attitude of a junkyard dog but not the skillset to take over like he thinks he can.

I like next year's class.  I think John is a tough dude down low, I think Eke will be a mean guy but I'm in a big time "wait and see" mode on whether he can develop the skill to be on the floor much, and I think Cain is going to be a tough minded wing for us.

[mug644]

Frankly, we've lacked that since Vander left. Guys like the Amigos, Lazar, JFB, Crowder, Junior (for my criticisms of his game, his will to win was always there), and Blue gave us that edge in toughness. Maybe Carlino had a bit of it, but the rest of the team just wasn't at that level. Last year, nothing. This year, much of the same.

I thought I saw that in Traci, but that ship sailed. I do think Markus has it. I look forward to seeing what he does as this team starts to become his.

I think Cheatham sort of showed that "I'll take it from here, boys" mentality last night when things go a bit tighter in the second half. It will be good if that spurt is his break out of the rut moment. Plus, I'd still like to see him diversify his offense a bit more. What he can do against competition like St. Francis will not be feasible in BEast play.

[MU82]

That last group of seniors quit on Buzz from an effort standpoint.  Luke, Du and JJJ had the same feel last night.  I hope they snap out of it because going through the motions in conference season would be painful.

I don't know what game you were watching last night, but I didn't see any sign at all -- not even a trace -- that Luke, Duane and JJJ quit on Wojo or the team.

Luke missed shots he usually makes. Duane committed some sloppy fouls. JJJ was too loose with the basketball.

They were misses, fouls and mistakes. I don't know how you could take the next step and say those were signs they were going through the motions or they didn't care or they quit.

I mean, in our loss to Vanderbilt in 2011, Jae missed 9 of 13 shots from the floor and 6 of 14 shots from the line. In our loss to Cinci later that season, he went 5-for-13 with 4 turnovers. Did he go through the motions those games?

Jeesh.

[barfolomew]

5 turnovers.   Could/should have been at least 7.    He threw that crapty pass that got deflected and he chased it down at mid court.   He traveled on that Euro-step lay up late.   Disinterested in d-ing up.

Perhaps this is just where jjj is being clever.
He's putting all these poor-decision drives and lazy passes on tape to lull our BE opponents to sleep.

[Loose Cannon]

It was a good car trip except for the head on collision

Perfect

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I don't know what game you were watching last night, but I didn't see any sign at all -- not even a trace -- that Luke, Duane and JJJ quit on Wojo or the team.

Luke missed shots he usually makes. Duane committed some sloppy fouls. JJJ was too loose with the basketball.

You can compare these guys to the worst games from the best warriors all you want but I am not the only one who thought those three were completely uninspired last night.

Look - to have a shot we need all three to play possessed & lead - I am just saying that its time to step up otherwise this is going to be a long conference season. 

[MU82]

You can compare these guys to the worst games from the best warriors all you want but I am not the only one who thought those three were completely uninspired last night.

Look - to have a shot we need all three to play possessed & lead - I am just saying that its time to step up otherwise this is going to be a long conference season.

So, you're sticking by your story that Luke didn't care and was just going through the motions. OK. I don't know what came over him when he ran about 20 feet and flew over everybody for a put-back jam. He must have forgotten he had decided not to play.

As for JJJ, if anything I think he was trying to do too much, especially on offense. He does get lost on defense sometimes because he always wants to go for the steal; that's been a problem of his for 4 years.

But you can stick by them being quitters who don't give a shyte. I know you have proof.

[jsglow]

Points, rebounds and turnovers?

Boom.  i could care less about JiJ's stat line last night.  He was awful.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

So, you're sticking by your story that Luke didn't care and was just going through the motions. OK. I don't know what came over him when he ran about 20 feet and flew over everybody for a put-back jam. He must have forgotten he had decided not to play.

As for JJJ, if anything I think he was trying to do too much, especially on offense. He does get lost on defense sometimes because he always wants to go for the steal; that's been a problem of his for 4 years.

But you can stick by them being quitters who don't give a shyte. I know you have proof.

That is your opinion & I respect that.  Mine is an opinion as well.   Personally, I hope yours is what ultimately plays out.

[jsglow]

So, you're sticking by your story that Luke didn't care and was just going through the motions. OK. I don't know what came over him when he ran about 20 feet and flew over everybody for a put-back jam. He must have forgotten he had decided not to play.

As for JJJ, if anything I think he was trying to do too much, especially on offense. He does get lost on defense sometimes because he always wants to go for the steal; that's been a problem of his for 4 years.

But you can stick by them being quitters who don't give a shyte. I know you have proof.

I think you've provided a fair assessment.  Everyone seems to care deeply.  But last night most of the team looked like they'd never had a second of coaching or practice time.  Maybe it was the pressure of only having 7 and thinking they had to do everything therefore forgetting to do any of the easy, little things.  Wednesday needs to go better.

[Lennys Tap]

Last night was similar to a lot of our games. We came out on fire, built a big (18 point) lead and faded.

[MU82]

If Luke shoots his usual percentage on the bunnies he had, we build a 30-point lead and coast. And the talk here is about "Do we really need to play St. Francis?" instead of "We have a bunch of quitters who mail it in under the de-motivator."