Can We Learn Defense?

[MuMark]

Pomeroy wrote an article not too long ago that concluded good defense had a high correlation with height. IIRC

MU is 182nd in a avg height according to Pomeroy. We are not long and not overly quick compared to many other high majors I have watched this year.

I agree with TAMU.

[Let's Go Warriors]

OK fine
The d still stinks

As I said

Either he is telling them the right the right stuff or he isnt

Either way it's not good and against a bad team.

And I don't want to hear that hbu is a good offense. Because it's not going to translate to BE play anyway.

It's like nails on a chalkboard ignoring the point of the fact that for 3 seasons this defense has been putrid.

[GoldenDieners32]

We should try a 2-3 zone

[warriorchick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6aVbxKf1WM

Need more of this.

Yeah, where's Dion James when we need him?

[tower912]

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52657.0

[Class71]

If we do not play better defense and we do not play as a team (i.e. better passing, shot selection, drives, outlet passing, etc.) we have another very painful season. Nothing to date suggests the coaching staff has made real progress in these areas.

[avid1010]

i hate the defense that mu/duke play, but it's hard to argue that it hasn't been successful for duke.  coach k. tried to use the same philosophy with the usa team, and they revolted until he made changes.  if you think back to the year the big 3 beat duke early in the season, duke pressured the ball as they always do, and we had a bunch of guys that could get good dribble penetration.  i'm sure someone can pull the stats to show how it all shakes out given that there are many extra possessions in a game played in this manner.  wojo isn't willing to budge on this style of ball, and i think he continues to play for the future even if he doesn't have the size/speed he'd like at this point.

fwiw...tv can't show anything strategic in a huddle.  if you don't realize that...you're probably thinking you could be a college d1 coach. 

[Let's Go Warriors]

i hate the defense that mu/duke play, but it's hard to argue that it hasn't been successful for duke.  coach k. tried to use the same philosophy with the usa team, and they revolted until he made changes.  if you think back to the year the big 3 beat duke early in the season, duke pressured the ball as they always do, and we had a bunch of guys that could get good dribble penetration.  i'm sure someone can pull the stats to show how it all shakes out given that there are many extra possessions in a game played in this manner.  wojo isn't willing to budge on this style of ball, and i think he continues to play for the future even if he doesn't have the size/speed he'd like at this point.

fwiw...tv can't show anything strategic in a huddle.  if you don't realize that...you're probably thinking you could be a college d1 coach.

the point remains.  Wojo was yelling at them to "play better Defense".  They did not.  To this point he is not getting through to them.(if they are doing what he wants then he just isnt a good defensive coach)  If he is not coaching it right or they are just not getting it we dont know for sure.  In either case its hard to argue that the defense is good. 

If anyone thinks his coaching to this point on the defensive side is working, Id like to hear this argument.

[tower912]

Him yelling and them not doing it doesn't bother me from a defensive perspective.    It was more about staying focused and in the moment and not letting your mind wander toward the next highlight offensive play up 25.   

[GGGG]

"In the huddle" segments are useless and no one should read anything into them from a coaching perspective.

[Let's Go Warriors]

Him yelling and them not doing it doesn't bother me from a defensive perspective.    It was more about staying focused and in the moment and not letting your mind wander toward the next highlight offensive play up 25.   

I dont think the one episode really matters either.  I think its the poor defense and lapses on an almost constant basis that is the problem.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If we do not play better defense and we do not play as a team (i.e. better passing, shot selection, drives, outlet passing, etc.) we have another very painful season. Nothing to date suggests the coaching staff has made real progress in these areas.

I agree that the defense hasn't improved. But if you don't think that they have improved "playing as a team" I don't know what to tell you. The strategy last season was give Henry the ball and pray he scores. We have seen much better shot selection, ball movement, drives, passing, unselfishness, etc.

I have zero doubts that this team is better than last year's. Better enough to compensate for our tougher schedule/conference? Remains to be seen.

[fjm]

I agree that the defense hasn't improved. But if you don't think that they have improved "playing as a team" I don't know what to tell you. The strategy last season was give Henry the ball and pray he scores. We have seen much better shot selection, ball movement, drives, passing, unselfishness, etc.

I have zero doubts that this team is better than last year's. Better enough to compensate for our tougher schedule/conference? Remains to be seen.

Completely agree. Just really need the D to step up. And the seniors need to close out games (see Pitt)

[avid1010]

the point remains.  Wojo was yelling at them to "play better Defense".  They did not.  To this point he is not getting through to them.(if they are doing what he wants then he just isnt a good defensive coach)  If he is not coaching it right or they are just not getting it we dont know for sure.  In either case its hard to argue that the defense is good. 

If anyone thinks his coaching to this point on the defensive side is working, Id like to hear this argument.

i think the style has been successful at duke.  while i don't like it, i think wojo must feel he has the ability to implement that style successfully at mu.  my hope is that he doesn't have the type of athlete he prefers to implement that style just yet, but that he isn't willing to give up a year or two of development on defense in order to play a defensive style that better matches what this team is. 

my fear is that he can't play the same style at mu as duke does because mu doesn't get the superior recruits that duke does.  wojo is in a better position to make that determination, and he has the most to gain/lose.  if he can't do it, the win/losses record will clearly show it...but i think he gets this season plus 2 more to prove it. 

[Lennys Tap]

i think the style has been successful at duke.  while i don't like it, i think wojo must feel he has the ability to implement that style successfully at mu.  my hope is that he doesn't have the type of athlete he prefers to implement that style just yet, but that he isn't willing to give up a year or two of development on defense in order to play a defensive style that better matches what this team is. 

my fear is that he can't play the same style at mu as duke does because mu doesn't get the superior recruits that duke does.  wojo is in a better position to make that determination, and he has the most to gain/lose.  if he can't do it, the win/losses record will clearly show it...but i think he gets this season plus 2 more to prove it.

I prefer a coach who adapts to his personnel. If you're an elite program you can afford to recruit to a particular "style" but if not you should go after "the best players available". The best compliment you can give a coach is "He can take his and beat yours or take yours and beat his".

[Let's Go Warriors]

I prefer a coach who adapts to his personnel. If you're an elite program you can afford to recruit to a particular "style" but if not you should go after "the best players available". The best compliment you can give a coach is "He can take his and beat yours or take yours and beat his".

I agree with this.  And most of the players on this rosters and in fact chosen by Wojo.  He may need to adjust his expectations based on the players he can get here?

[Benny B]

Let's pump the brakes a little.

MU gave up just as many points to HBU and IUPUI (go Jags) as they did to Pitt and UM.  Unless someone disagrees with the sentiment that the former are not on the same plane as the latter, I would not look too deeply into defense the last two games and try to extrapolate that into something meaningful, or even relevant.

Fact is, OOC is basically "spring training" for the BE season, except that unlike baseball's Spring Training, it counts.  But coaches still use this time to try things out, focus on certain areas of the game (sometimes at the expense of others), play with rotations, etc.  Which means that you're not going to see the same MU team against the cupcakes that you did against Michigan, Pitt or Vandy.

Now I'm not saying that any coach is going to throw a game against a cupcake in order to provide a teachable moment, but I am saying that most coaches don't bring their A-Game to the bakery.  Look at the margin in the last two games... if MU won the last two 59-34 and 68-46, would anyone here be lauding the defense, or would they be concerned with the offense?

In other words.  R-E-L-A-X.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I agree with this.  And most of the players on this rosters and in fact chosen by Wojo.  He may need to adjust his expectations based on the players he can get here?

Yes, but the most experienced players are not and they set the tone. However, I agree with your and Lenny that a coach needs to be able to adapt to his personnel.

The more I think about it, the less I think Luke is the kind of center that wojo will recruit in the future. I think we'll see more shorter but quick athletes like John in the future.

[jesmu84]

I prefer a coach who adapts to his personnel. If you're an elite program you can afford to recruit to a particular "style" but if not you should go after "the best players available". The best compliment you can give a coach is "He can take his and beat yours or take yours and beat his".

I don't think your opinion is wrong.

But I also think you can recruit to a style and not be elite - Wisconsin, for example.

[Marcus92]

Completely agree. Just really need the D to step up. And the seniors need to close out games (see Pitt)

Six games doesn't tell the whole story. But as far as the opening chapter goes, KenPom says Marquette is significantly better on both ends of the floor.

2015-16
AdjO 106.9 (8th in the Big East)
AdjD 99.0 (7th in the Big East)

2016-17
AdjO 110.2 (5th in the Big East)
AdjD 95.4 (5th in the Big East)

If that holds true, we're a pretty good bet for the NCAA tournament. Could be we improve as the season goes on — or we crumble in the face of serious competition. Only time will tell. I'm optimistic about this team and genuinely excited about where the program's headed under Wojo.

[GoldenDieners32]

2-3 zone would be perfect because for a 2-3 you need to have fast players ( we only start 1 true big) so this would be good. Also we only have 2 real good defenders on the team as in JJJ and TC.

[jesmu84]

Six games doesn't tell the whole story. But as far as the opening chapter goes, KenPom says Marquette is significantly better on both ends of the floor.

2015-16
AdjO 106.9 (8th in the Big East)
AdjD 99.0 (7th in the Big East)

2016-17
AdjO 110.2 (5th in the Big East)
AdjD 95.4 (5th in the Big East)

If that holds true, we're a pretty good bet for the NCAA tournament. Could be we improve as the season goes on — or we crumble in the face of serious competition. Only time will tell. I'm optimistic about this team and genuinely excited about where the program's headed under Wojo.

Don't bring your numbers in here and make logical points. My eye test and "in the huddle" comments matter so much more.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't think your opinion is wrong.

But I also think you can recruit to a style and not be elite - Wisconsin, for example.

True. But just as a Duke would have to alter their style be be successful if they didn't have elite players or athletes, Bo altered his (and moved away from the swing) when he did.

[fjm]

Six games doesn't tell the whole story. But as far as the opening chapter goes, KenPom says Marquette is significantly better on both ends of the floor.

2015-16
AdjO 106.9 (8th in the Big East)
AdjD 99.0 (7th in the Big East)

2016-17
AdjO 110.2 (5th in the Big East)
AdjD 95.4 (5th in the Big East)

If that holds true, we're a pretty good bet for the NCAA tournament. Could be we improve as the season goes on — or we crumble in the face of serious competition. Only time will tell. I'm optimistic about this team and genuinely excited about where the program's headed under Wojo.

Damn! Thanks for the stats. You're right, much improved. Well done Marcus!

[Let's Go Warriors]

Don't bring your numbers in here and make logical points. My eye test and "in the huddle" comments matter so much more.

These stats are meaningless right now anyway.  As has been pointed out there are only 6 games.  4 of which are against bad teams(1 slightly above average team) that wont approach the level of 18 BE games that is being used as the comparison.  In fact if you were to surmise anything from these stats it COULD be that they are troubling considering the stats from last year are including 18 BE conference games and the stats this year are against largely cupcakes.