Can Aaron Rodgers Be the Type of Leader the Packers Need | BleacherReport

[Eldon]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2676645-can-aaron-rodgers-be-the-type-of-leader-the-packers-need#

Probably the best bleacherreport article that I have ever read.  Paints ARod as a huge headcase (which confirms other anecdotes that he is a weird guy).

I found this quote from Jermichael Finley to be especially telling:

To tell you the truth, it was all about his game and his stats in my opinion. … He was a guy that kept it all in. He kept grudges close to his chest. If you did something, he never really let it go. He always kept it close to his heart.

"I just don't think he was a natural-born leader. He wasn't put on Earth to lead."

You'll never be the man that Brett is, bro.  You'll never be the leader that Brett was.  Never.

[GGGG]

Any thesis that uses as evidence extensive quotes from Jermichael Finley is specious at best.

[wadesworld]

Any thesis that uses as evidence extensive quotes from Jermichael Finley is specious at best.

Exactly.  I have little doubt that Rodgers is a douche that wouldn't be a whole lot of fun to play with in a season like this, but using Jermichael to prove the point?  You can definitely do better.

Brett and Aaron are roughly the same, they just use different approaches.

[Goose]

Ridgers is Kobe in a football uniform IMO. Told me kids last year after Kobe's last game that Rodgers will end his career against a crap team, throw it 75 times for 8 TD's and 650 years in a loss.
When he said the Hail Mary against the Lions last year was the greatest moment of his career said a lot to me. Great talent, not a born winner and probably a loner. Like Kobe, his competitive nature seems forced to me and all talk.

[wadesworld]

Ridgers is Kobe in a football uniform IMO. Told me kids last year after Kobe's last game that Rodgers will end his career against a crap team, throw it 75 times for 8 TD's and 650 years in a loss.
When he said the Hail Mary against the Lions last year was the greatest moment of his career said a lot to me. Great talent, not a born winner and probably a loner. Like Kobe, his competitive nature seems forced to me and all talk.

There are 3 quarterbacks in football right now who have a higher winning percentage than Aaron Rodgers that have started more than the 10 games this season.  He has the 5th most career wins of any active quarterback in football.  He's won pretty much at every level he's been at.  I'm not sure where you get the idea he's "not a born winner."  All he's really ever done is win.

[Goose]

Born winners win the biggest games. His playoff record, aside from SB year, is poor and his record against teams with winning record is poor. Too lazy to get the stats but his record in games that under three point favorite or underdog is actually very poor.

[wadesworld]

Born winners win the biggest games. His playoff record, aside from SB year, is poor and his record against teams with winning record is poor. Too lazy to get the stats but his record in games that under three point favorite or underdog is actually very poor.

So you mean when he's playing better teams he has a worse record?  Shocking.  That's typically how it goes.  Teams with better records are tougher to beat than teams with worse records because they're typically better teams.

And you can do that with any quarterback.  "Other than the SB run his Playoff record sucks."  Well of course that's true.  That's true with any quarterback.

[Goose]

Wade

We look at winning and excellence different across the board. Tom Brady is a born winner and shows it year in and year out. IMO the Packers level of success with AR at QB is not impressive. Great stats and too much big game disappointments.
We can agree to disagree.

[GGGG]

Aaron Rodgers is 8-6 in playoff games.  63% completion percentage.  27 TDs, 8 INTs.  98.2 rating.  Rodgers lost two playoff games at Lambeau.  He has won four road playoff games. 

Brett Favre is 13-11.  60% completion percentage.  44 TDs, 30 INTs.  86.3 rating.  He lost three playoff games at Lambeau.  He won three on the road, the last one being the 1997 NFC Championship Game.

BTW, Tom Brady has only three road playoff wins, the last one was in the 2006 Divisional Playoffs.  He's also lost three playoff games at home.  (And two Super Bowls where his team was was the favorite.)  Don't get me wrong, Tom Brady is a better quarterback than Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre.  But he pretty much wins in the playoffs when his team is better. 

And the cliche "born winner?"  No thanks.

[wadesworld]

Wade

We look at winning and excellence different across the board. Tom Brady is a born winner and shows it year in and year out. IMO the Packers level of success with AR at QB is not impressive. Great stats and too much big game disappointments.
We can agree to disagree.

I just don't get it. All but maybe 2 franchises in the NFL would kill to have someone who wasn't a "born winner" if Rodgers isn't that.

Just curious, beyond Brady, what QBs in the NFL would you consider "born winners?"

If Rodgers was paired with Bill Bellichick his entire career he wouldn't be stopping at 4 SBs.

[wadesworld]

And don't get me wrong. I've been incredibly frustrated with Rodgers the last year in a half. But calling him not a "born winner" is just flat out wrong. He's unequestionably one of (no, not the) the best QBs to ever play the game. Just as Dan Marino was, despite not being a "born winner."

[Goose]

Again, how we define winning and excellence is not on the same planet. IMO there are very few born winners that I have watched in sports. A born winner finds a way to win against all odds and few have that ability. Winning and winning big is done by very few and I do not think Rodgers is even in any conversation on that topic.

[GGGG]

Again, how we define winning and excellence is not on the same planet. IMO there are very few born winners that I have watched in sports. A born winner finds a way to win against all odds and few have that ability. Winning and winning big is done by very few and I do not think Rodgers is even in any conversation on that topic.

But how is Brady a "born winner?"  When has he won "against all odds?"  He hasn't won a playoff game where his team has been the underdog in over ten years, and he has lost some where he has been the favorite since that time.

Ditto Favre. 

Rodgers winning three playoff games on the road, and a Super Bowl the same year, is arguably a greater single season accomplishment than either Brady or Favre achieved.  Was that not "against all odds?"  (They were favored by the last Vegas line in the NFC Championship Game at the Bears and in the Super Bowl versus the Steelers.)

[Goose]

Sultan
Where was Favre mentioned? You noted his stats and was confused on why. Hard for Brady to win on the road when they have home field every year.

[GGGG]

Favre was mentioned by the OP.

And Brady lost on the road in the playoffs both last season and in the 2014 NFC Championship Games.  (Both at Denver.)

[Goose]

Brady won SB two years ago.

[GGGG]

You said that Tom Brady is a "born winner."  You said that born winners find "a way to win against all odds."

Brady won a Super Bowl two years ago when his team was favored in every playoff game except the Super Bowl that ended as a Pick 'Em.  How is that finding a win against all odds?

Brady is a better quarterback.  That's all you have to say and there isn't much to dispute that.  However saying that he is a "born winner," and Aaron Rodgers isn't a "born winner" are just cliches that don't mean anything. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Olivia Munn is super hot.

[wadesworld]

I'll ask again, then.  What NFL quarterbacks beyond Tom Brady is a "born winner?"

[🏀]

I'll ask again, then.  What NFL quarterbacks beyond Tom Brady is a "born winner?"

Eli?

[Goose]

Wade

I would take Big Ben career over Rodgers in a heartbeat at this stage of their careers. R. Wilson has done nothing but win and continues to do so. I only mentioned "born winner" because that article compared AR competitive nature to that of Jordan. I found that to be flat out crazy. If true, I wish he would funnel some of that competitive nature into winning at highest level.

Rodgers has had a very nice career and next five years will judge his place in history. I would have far less beef with Rodgers being a "winner" if for six years in a row we were not heavily regarded team going into the season. Post SB success has not been there. Going into this season any Packer fan being honest had to have home field for playoffs as the baseline goal. Three months ago folks were talking 16-0, 15-1, 14-2 and crazy stuff and now fighting for playoff spot.

[wadesworld]

Wade

I would take Big Ben career over Rodgers in a heartbeat at this stage of their careers. R. Wilson has done nothing but win and continues to do so. I only mentioned "born winner" because that article compared AR competitive nature to that of Jordan. I found that to be flat out crazy. If true, I wish he would funnel some of that competitive nature into winning at highest level.

Rodgers has had a very nice career and next five years will judge his place in history. I would have far less beef with Rodgers being a "winner" if for six years in a row we were not heavily regarded team going into the season. Post SB success has not been there. Going into this season any Packer fan being honest had to have home field for playoffs as the baseline goal. Three months ago folks were talking 16-0, 15-1, 14-2 and crazy stuff and now fighting for playoff spot.

So because prognosticators and fans got it wrong means Aaron isn't a "born winner?"

Russell Wilson has the same number of championships as Aaron Rodgers, the worst defense he's ever played with is far and away better than the best Rodgers has ever played with (even the Chuck Woodson defenses weren't close to what the worst Seahawks Ds have been the past 5 years), his worst running game has been far and away better than an out of shape running back that doesn't fit the offense Mac wants to run, and Wilson has always played for a far better coach than Rodgers.

Wilson is a game manager that is asked to turn and hand the ball off 35 times a game, take off on a run 6 times a game, throw a bunch of out routs on gimmick plays, maybe take a deep shot once a game, and let his defense win him games. Rodgers is asked to complete carry a team with no defense whatsoever. And they've had roughly identical success. And both are equally phonies.

Big Ben sure you can make a case. He's also been playing longer and is 0-1 against Rodgers in the Playoff. The "non born winner" beat the "born winner" when winning mattered most. If Rodgers gets a second and even third title before his career is over and Big Ben stays at 2 with one being directly against Big Ben did Rodgers go through a rebirth, this time a winner at birth?

[tower912]

Debating whether or not Aaron Rodgers is a leader is like asking if LeBron has actually underachieved.    Talk about first-world problems. 

[HouWarrior]

Debating whether or not Aaron Rodgers is a leader is like asking if LeBron has actually underachieved.    Talk about first-world problems.

Agree
The Texans (except for a couple years with journeyman Matt Shaub) have never had a decent QB during their entire franchise history.

Packers have had 3 HOF QBs and a slew of decent journeymen QBs. There are nowadays at least half a dozen NFL teams that must start QBs who likely wouldnt start for most other teams

Why not just....Enjoy Rodgers while he is active ; and debate his legacy/standing on his retirement

[brandx]

Agree
The Texans (except for a couple years with journeyman Matt Shaub) have never had a decent QB during their entire franchise history.

Packers have had 3 HOF QBs and a slew of decent journeymen QBs. There are nowadays at least half a dozen NFL teams that must start QBs who likely wouldnt start for most other teams

Why not just....Enjoy Rodgers while he is active ; and debate his legacy/standing on his retirement

Why isn't Aaron leading this defense? Brady or Montana would be out on the field making tackles. It's time for Aaron to "prove" he is a winner.

Aikman is another so-called "winner". I'm surprised his back is not bent and broken from carrying those Hall-of-Famers for all of those years. Emmitt, Irvin, Deion, Allen and the rest never would have lasted in the NFL without a winner like Aikman to lead them.