Poor Hoops' Impact on institutional health

[Disco Hippie]

Starting to become pretty concerned that our sub-par men's hoops program is going to have serious negative repurcussions on the university's overall health.  As it is applications were down 40% last year (that is an enormous decrease) and while we had a decent size incoming class this fall, we had to admit 77% of applicants to get to that class size.  An embarrassing stat!   Like it or not, MU is extraordinarily dependent on the success of it's men's basketball team to keep them nationally relevant.   I wish that weren't the case but it is and our head coach and players really do carry the weight of the University on their shoulders because the impact their success or lack thereof has on issues that have nothing to do with basketball is huge at an institution like ours.   I'm not in any way suggesting that Marquette de-emphasize basketball  and I want them to at least make the Sweet 16 every year.....  But given that's probably not realistic , what will it take for Marquette to get to a place academically where they're less dependent on the success of their men's basketball program?   What I mean by that is this:

If you take a school like say Georgetown University,  their men's basketball team could not make the NCAA tournament for the next 10 years and the impact that would have on Georgetown's overall financial health  and prestige would be either non-existent or negligible i'm guessing largely due to its overall prestige and location in our nation's capital.    Unlike us, they're never going to have to deal with a 40% decline in applications because their basketball team didn't make the tournament.  The fact that we haven't for the last four years  coupled with the application decline last year is not a coincidence.   What can we do as alums to stem the tide?  Thoughts?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The Bball team is Marquette's national brand. 

My health will be diminished by bad basketball-- let's hope the brand can endure. 

[GGGG]

Starting to become pretty concerned that our sub-par men's hoops program is going to have serious negative repurcussions on the university's overall health.  As it is applications were down 40% last year (that is an enormous decrease) and while we had a decent size incoming class this fall, we had to admit 77% of applicants to get to that class size.  An embarrassing stat!   Like it or not, MU is extraordinarily dependent on the success of it's men's basketball team to keep them nationally relevant.   I wish that weren't the case but it is and our head coach and players really do carry the weight of the University on their shoulders because the impact their success or lack thereof has on issues that have nothing to do with basketball is huge at an institution like ours.   I'm not in any way suggesting that Marquette de-emphasize basketball  and I want them to at least make the Sweet 16 every year.....  But given that's probably not realistic , what will it take for Marquette to get to a place academically where they're less dependent on the success of their men's basketball program?   What I mean by that is this:

If you take a school like say Georgetown University,  their men's basketball team could not make the NCAA tournament for the next 10 years and the impact that would have on Georgetown's overall financial health  and prestige would be either non-existent or negligible i'm guessing largely due to its overall prestige and location in our nation's capital.    Unlike us, they're never going to have to deal with a 40% decline in applications because their basketball team didn't make the tournament.  The fact that we haven't for the last four years  coupled with the application decline last year is not a coincidence.   What can we do as alums to stem the tide?  Thoughts?

My thought is that the only time you ever post here is because you want to b*tch about the too high acceptance rate bullsh*t.

Seriously, Marquette WANTED to get less applications by quantity, but have them be higher quality.  They did it.  You clearly don't agree with their strategy...despite the fact that it is successful.

Yes the hoops team is important as a marketing tool for the University.  It has to improve.  Everyone knows that.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

My thought is that the only time you ever post here is because you want to b*tch about....

Is this what that new poster Jams was talking about. 

[Eldon]

Starting to become pretty concerned that our sub-par men's hoops program is going to have serious negative repurcussions on the university's overall health.  As it is applications were down 40% last year (that is an enormous decrease) and while we had a decent size incoming class this fall, we had to admit 77% of applicants to get to that class size.  An embarrassing stat!   Like it or not, MU is extraordinarily dependent on the success of it's men's basketball team to keep them nationally relevant.   I wish that weren't the case but it is and our head coach and players really do carry the weight of the University on their shoulders because the impact their success or lack thereof has on issues that have nothing to do with basketball is huge at an institution like ours.   I'm not in any way suggesting that Marquette de-emphasize basketball  and I want them to at least make the Sweet 16 every year.....  But given that's probably not realistic , what will it take for Marquette to get to a place academically where they're less dependent on the success of their men's basketball program?   What I mean by that is this:

If you take a school like say Georgetown University,  their men's basketball team could not make the NCAA tournament for the next 10 years and the impact that would have on Georgetown's overall financial health  and prestige would be either non-existent or negligible i'm guessing largely due to its overall prestige and location in our nation's capital.    Unlike us, they're never going to have to deal with a 40% decline in applications because their basketball team didn't make the tournament.  The fact that we haven't for the last four years  coupled with the application decline last year is not a coincidence.   What can we do as alums to stem the tide?  Thoughts?

THE ACCEPTANCE RATE IS TOO DAMN HIGH!

[Disco Hippie]

My thought is that the only time you ever post here is because you want to b*tch about the too high acceptance rate bullsh*t.

Seriously, Marquette WANTED to get less applications by quantity, but have them be higher quality.  They did it.  You clearly don't agree with their strategy...despite the fact that it is successful.

Yes the hoops team is important as a marketing tool for the University.  It has to improve.  Everyone knows that.

It's not that I disagree with the strategy, I just wish there was a way to execute it without having to accept such a high percentage.   As much as I would like Marquette to not even need an enrollment strategy, I accept the fact that all but the most elite of elite of institutions must have one.   That said, I've witnessed first hand how that single statistic is driving potential applicants away because parents and prospective students in this part of the country are turned off by it.   It may not be an issue out there and perhaps the administration doesn't give a crap about increasing the geographic footprint of its undergraduate student body, which is fine.  As long as they're getting a decent class size each year, where they come from shouldn't matter all that much.  I can't argue with that but as an alum who's done reasonably well and goes out of their way to sell the virtues of a Marquette education to prospective students and their parents, it's incredibly frustrating to be told time and again that while Marquette might be a good fit, we feel that our/son daughter should be able to get into a a more selective school and they don't even end up applyingi which will damaging to the brand over the long term. 

[GGGG]

That said, I've witnessed first hand how that single statistic is driving potential applicants away because parents and prospective students in this part of the country are turned off by it. 

GOOD!!!  Keep them away!!!

We don't want morons choosing Marquette because they believe in irrelevant metrics.

[🏀]

GOOD!!!  Keep them away!!!

We don't want morons choosing Marquette because they believe in irrelevant metrics.

I see what you did there, bravo

[Babybluejeansfan]

Is it true the Marquette admissions application is free these days?

[GGGG]

Is it true the Marquette admissions application is free these days?

Like pretty much every private school when they use the common application.

[BamaMu1]

Like pretty much every private school when they use the common application.

Creighton, Wake Forest, Duke, Syracuse, Rice all charge with the common app.  My daughter applied to three of those schools and she told me Marquette didn't charge. She didn't have an interest in MU, but that surprised me.

[Jay Bee]

Creighton, Wake Forest, Duke, Syracuse, Rice all charge with the common app.

Creighton's website says otherwise... seems like the most comparable to MU, hey?
"Two Ways to Apply. No Fees....Complete the Common Application – for students applying to multiple schools."

[Herman Cain]

It's not that I disagree with the strategy, I just wish there was a way to execute it without having to accept such a high percentage.   As much as I would like Marquette to not even need an enrollment strategy, I accept the fact that all but the most elite of elite of institutions must have one.   That said, I've witnessed first hand how that single statistic is driving potential applicants away because parents and prospective students in this part of the country are turned off by it.   It may not be an issue out there and perhaps the administration doesn't give a crap about increasing the geographic footprint of its undergraduate student body, which is fine.  As long as they're getting a decent class size each year, where they come from shouldn't matter all that much.  I can't argue with that but as an alum who's done reasonably well and goes out of their way to sell the virtues of a Marquette education to prospective students and their parents, it's incredibly frustrating to be told time and again that while Marquette might be a good fit, we feel that our/son daughter should be able to get into a a more selective school and they don't even end up applyingi which will damaging to the brand over the long term.

I too have spent countless hours recruiting kids and their families to market.  The single biggest objection is the lack of selectivity of the school. The best endorsement we can have comes from having lots of kids who are not accepted into the school. That way the kids who get in value their admission more. We have a great university but we are very poor at marketing our virtues. If we made a reasonable attempt at going to the top public schools in the northeast our ratings would improve significantly.

I remember talking to someone in admissions once and they told me Marquette grads are the kind of people who are the workers and get the mundane aspects of life done in the world. That is a fine concept, but we really want to be recruiting the leaders , not the followers . 

In my view Marquette is a top 50 school but we act like a top 200 school. That is a big disconnect but more importantly a waste of our resources.

We need a president of the University who understands how to get our image up. Better image,  more money, access to better professors and students.

[Eldon]

I too have spent countless hours recruiting kids and their families to market.  The single biggest objection is the lack of selectivity of the school. The best endorsement we can have comes from having lots of kids who are not accepted into the school. That way the kids who get in value their admission more. We have a great university but we are very poor at marketing our virtues. If we made a reasonable attempt at going to the top public schools in the northeast our ratings would improve significantly.

I remember talking to someone in admissions once and they told me Marquette grads are the kind of people who are the workers and get the mundane aspects of life done in the world. That is a fine concept, but we really want to be recruiting the leaders , not the followers . 

In my view Marquette is a top 50 school but we act like a top 200 school. That is a big disconnect but more importantly a waste of our resources.

We need a president of the University who understands how to get our image up. Better image,  more money, access to better professors and students.

Explain to them how easy it is to manipulate that statistic and explain how self-selection plays a role in its value (I posted on this a few dozen threads back, as has Chick and Sultan, IIRC).  Tell them about Northeastern's shenanigans.  Tell them about the countless sh*t that law schools have done to manipulate the rankings. 

Tell them that if they care so much about selectivity and quality of their child's peers once at Marquette, tell them to look at the median ACT score, median GPA, etc.

[Herman Cain]

Explain to them how easy it is to manipulate that statistic and explain how self-selection plays a role in its value (I posted on this a few dozen threads back, as has Chick and Sultan, IIRC).  Tell them about Northeastern's shenanigans.  Tell them about the countless sh*t that law schools have done to manipulate the rankings. 

Tell them that if they care so much about selectivity and quality of their child's peers once at Marquette, tell them to look at the median ACT score, median GPA, etc.

I have made the sale on a couple of the points you have mentioned. However, our grades and test scores are nothing to write home about. That is ultimate where things break down , as they are tied in to selectivity.

We need to be taking 3.8 and above students with commensurate SAT ACT test scores.   

[GGGG]

I have made the sale on a couple of the points you have mentioned. However, our grades and test scores are nothing to write home about. That is ultimate where things break down , as they are tied in to selectivity.

We need to be taking 3.8 and above students with commensurate SAT ACT test scores.   

Uh no.

Why would I want Marquette to become a school I couldn't have gotten into when I went to high school?  Seriously this is just dumb.

[Bocephys]

Uh no.

Why would I want Marquette to become a school I couldn't have gotten into when I went to high school?  Seriously this is just dumb.

That's an odd sentiment to me.  You don't want Marquette to improve?

[GGGG]

That's an odd sentiment to me.  You don't want Marquette to improve?

Why are you assuming that accepting a more elite level of student means they are improving? 

[Bocephys]

Why are you assuming that accepting a more elite level of student means they are improving?

That's a fair question, I hadn't thought about it that way.  I'm operating under the assumption that most people here want to see Marquette improve as a University, and I do mean improve in the commonly accepted way of accepting better students, maybe moving towards more of a research based institution, and skyrocketing various academic rankings to continue to attract better students. This would lead to better alumni which leads to more donations back to the school and better facilities which leads to better students, etc.

I believe the intent of your statement and question is that all of that isn't an improvement, but a shift away from the students Marquette used to serve.  Assuming that's accurate, I'd never even considered the prospect of standing in place on purpose to serve a larger vision vs competing with the masses towards a common goal.  It's kind of sexy in theory, but I'm not so sure it works in practice without a more defined vision in place.

[GGGG]

That's exactly what I am saying.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with understanding your role and excelling within that role.  In fact one could argue that it helps you define your mission better to your alumni base because everyone knows who you are.  Marquette can most certainly continue to exist and excel as a top 100 national university that attracts above average students primarily from the midwest, yet still providing some access to students from non-traditional backgrounds.

Despite what the rankings imply, higher education isn't a contest like college basketball.  There are roles to play from places like MATC all the way up to the Harvards and Stanfords of the world. 

[muwarrior69]

So goes the Basketball Team, so goes the University.

Is that MU's mission statement?

[warriorchick]

That's exactly what I am saying.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with understanding your role and excelling within that role.  In fact one could argue that it helps you define your mission better to your alumni base because everyone knows who you are.  Marquette can most certainly continue to exist and excel as a top 100 national university that attracts above average students primarily from the midwest, yet still providing some access to students from non-traditional backgrounds.

Despite what the rankings imply, higher education isn't a contest like college basketball.  There are roles to play from places like MATC all the way up to the Harvards and Stanfords of the world.

That USNWR ranking that some of y'all are so fond of referencing actually has a list called "A+ colleges for B students", and Marquette is ranked #16. 

I have absolutely no problem with that. As a matter of fact, I think it would be a more admirable goal for Marquette to make it to the top of this list rather than to simply get higher up on the overall list.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/a-plus

[Benny B]

Uh no.

Why would I want Marquette to become a school I couldn't have gotten into when I went to high school?  Seriously this is just dumb.

3.8 is the new 2.5.  Do you even realize how hard it is to give out B's when students' parents are calling you every day to ask why their kid didn't get an A?

[Herman Cain]

Uh no.

Why would I want Marquette to become a school I couldn't have gotten into when I went to high school?  Seriously this is just dumb.

This statement is exactly why we need to improve as a school. The goal is for the university to improve and attract better students who strive to be elite. I Want to see MU be in the top of the pecking order. 

Community Colleges and Directional Universities exist are the entry level to life  platforms. Not a place like MU that charges people a fortune to attend.

I am for competing and winning in life not being satisfied with second best or pat on the back.

We can be a school about service and also about success. Not mutually exclusive .

[Herman Cain]

3.8 is the new 2.5.  Do you even realize how hard it is to give out B's when students' parents are calling you every day to ask why their kid didn't get an A?

All the more reason to up our standards not lower them.