Broke Nigel Hayes

[StillAWarrior]

I'm just amazed that after all these years, with all the demand people apparently have to watch these athletes, nobody has created a viable minor league system for basketball or football.  After all, there are hundreds of millions of dollars -- billions even -- out there.  Maybe, just maybe, the reason we haven't seen anyone try it on a large scale is that fans really don't give a crap about the athletes.  College athletes generate billions of dollars because people are passionate about the schools -- not the athletes.  We all waste more time than we should on MUScoop.  The specific people we discuss on this board are usually discussed for one of several reasons:  1) we hope they will come to Marquette; 2) they decided to come to Marquette; 3) they decided to attend a school that is a rival of Marquette; or 4) they are playing against Marquette.  I sense a common theme.

Clearly, college football and basketball generate a huge amount of money.  But the players are secondary to that.  If Nigel Hayes hadn't decided to head to Madison from Toledo, hardly anyone in Madison would have even the faintest idea who he was, and those who did wouldn't care.  Wisconsin simply would have assigned that No. 10 jersey to the next kid through the door.  One could argue that Hayes owes Wisconsin as much as Wisconsin owes him.  Fortunately, both are paying their share in the transaction.  Hayes plays hard for their team and   Wisconsin is giving him education, room, board, travel, training, clothes, etc. 

[Jay Bee]

I'm just amazed that after all these years, with all the demand people apparently have to watch these athletes, nobody has created a viable minor league system for basketball or football.  After all, there are hundreds of millions of dollars -- billions even -- out there.  Maybe, just maybe, the reason we haven't seen anyone try it on a large scale is that fans really don't give a crap about the athletes.  College athletes generate billions of dollars because people are passionate about the schools -- not the athletes.  We all waste more time than we should on MUScoop.  The specific people we discuss on this board are usually discussed for one of several reasons:  1) we hope they will come to Marquette; 2) they decided to come to Marquette; 3) they decided to attend a school that is a rival of Marquette; or 4) they are playing against Marquette.  I sense a common theme.

Clearly, college football and basketball generate a huge amount of money.  But the players are secondary to that.  If Nigel Hayes hadn't decided to head to Madison from Toledo, hardly anyone in Madison would have even the faintest idea who he was, and those who did wouldn't care.  Wisconsin simply would have assigned that No. 10 jersey to the next kid through the door.  One could argue that Hayes owes Wisconsin as much as Wisconsin owes him.  Fortunately, both are paying their share in the transaction.  Hayes plays hard for their team and   Wisconsin is giving him education, room, board, travel, training, clothes, etc.

Hayes is a dink, but wouldn't all your comments be applicable to pro sports as well? People are passionate about the teams. Would gren bae fans be nuts over a person like Clay Matthews if he wasn't in their uniform?

[GooooMarquette]

Woah.   Did an athlete just do a nonviolent protest, to raise awareness to an issue that is important them, with goal to have millions of eyeballs on ESPN.com read about it?

No, he just must be another dumb jock and a clown.

You're ignoring the third possibility - that both are true.

[GGGG]

Woah.   Did an athlete just do a nonviolent protest, to raise awareness to an issue that is important them, with goal to have millions of eyeballs on ESPN.com read about it?

No, he just must be another dumb jock and a clown.

Don't forget that he is raising money for charity in the process.

But it's just easier for the Skip Wadesworlds of the world to label him "dumb."

[wadesworld]

Don't forget that he is raising money for charity in the process.

But it's just easier for the Skip Wadesworlds of the world to label him "dumb."

It's clear as day that you can't accept payments from boosters as a student athlete. Pretty dumb for Nigel to do just that. But hey, if that makes me Skip Bayless then I'm all for it.

Not to mention it's pretty dumb to have people give money expecting it's going one place and then find out it's not going there. Again, if having basic common sense means you're Skip Bayless then sign me up.

[GGGG]

It's clear as day that you can't accept payments from boosters as a student athlete. Pretty dumb for Nigel to do just that. But hey, if that makes me Skip Bayless then I'm all for it.

Not to mention it's pretty dumb to have people give money expecting it's going one place and then find out it's not going there. Again, if having basic common sense means you're Skip Bayless then sign me up.

Actually you said that he is "So dumb he can't even get his own (Venmo) username right."

Well it turns out he was two steps ahead of you.  He intentionally set it up in a friend's name, AND had decided to donate the proceeds to charity.  So one could say, that even if you don't believe that his cause is just, he did bring attention to something he believes it.

Far from "dumb."  Far from "a clown." 

[wadesworld]

Actually you said that he is "So dumb he can't even get his own (Venmo) username right."

Well it turns out he was two steps ahead of you.  He intentionally set it up in a friend's name, AND had decided to donate the proceeds to charity.  So one could say, that even if you don't believe that his cause is just, he did bring attention to something he believes it.

Far from "dumb."  Far from "a clown."

Well, the step he failed to see in front of him is that people realized that wasn't his username and his username was 1 character short of the same username, so he did, in fact, receive payments.  So, he's pretty dumb for taking payments from school boosters.  Very illegal by NCAA rules.  Very dumb by Nigel.

He's also very dumb for telling people to Venmo money to an account that he was implying was his, when it wasn't his.  And for failing to tell people where that money would actually (supposedly) end up.  If I'm agreeing to donate my own money (that I worked for and didn't simply ask for someone to send me for nothing) then I would expect that money to go where that person said it was going.  If I decided giving Nigel Hayes money for no reason at all was a worthy cause, I would expect the money to go there and remain there.  Finding out hours later that, "Hey, this isn't my username you sent the money to, and this isn't where the money will be going," that's called a scam.  Maybe some people wanted their money going to Nigel but have no interest in donating money to the Boys and Girl's Club of Dane County.  Maybe if they wanted to donate their money to the Boys and Girl's Club of Dane County they would've done so with a check themselves so they could take a tax deduction for their gift, but now Nigel gets to be the one putting his name on a check with (supposedly) all the money he (and his buddy, since both accounts got payments) collected.

Dumb.  Very dumb.

[wadesworld]

Back to the point at hand, I can't believe these student athletes live such an impoverished lifestyle.  Flying all over the country on private jets to play a game.  So taken advantage of...

 

[GGGG]

Well, the step he failed to see in front of him is that people realized that wasn't his username and his username was 1 character short of the same username, so he did, in fact, receive payments.  So, he's pretty dumb for taking payments from school boosters.  Very illegal by NCAA rules.  Very dumb by Nigel.

He's also very dumb for telling people to Venmo money to an account that he was implying was his, when it wasn't his.  And for failing to tell people where that money would actually (supposedly) end up.  If I'm agreeing to donate my own money (that I worked for and didn't simply ask for someone to send me for nothing) then I would expect that money to go where that person said it was going.  If I decided giving Nigel Hayes money for no reason at all was a worthy cause, I would expect the money to go there and remain there.  Finding out hours later that, "Hey, this isn't my username you sent the money to, and this isn't where the money will be going," that's called a scam.  Maybe some people wanted their money going to Nigel but have no interest in donating money to the Boys and Girl's Club of Dane County.  Maybe if they wanted to donate their money to the Boys and Girl's Club of Dane County they would've done so with a check themselves so they could take a tax deduction for their gift, but now Nigel gets to be the one putting his name on a check with (supposedly) all the money he (and his buddy, since both accounts got payments) collected.

Dumb.  Very dumb.

Skip doubles down despite the fact that his initial allegations were false.  Shift the goalposts.  Insult some more.

Oh well.  Not surprised.

[wadesworld]

Skip doubles down despite the fact that his initial allegations were false.  Shift the goalposts.  Insult some more.

Oh well.  Not surprised.

What's false?  What shifted?  Just curious...

Do yourself a favor.  Check on Nigel Hayes's account activity.  Let me know if he's received payments or not.

Talking just to talk.  Haven't actually looked into it.  Also no surprise.

[wadesworld]

But, according to Sultan, his account isn't accepting any payments.  Venmo is just glitching out, or something.

[Pakuni]

Back to the point at hand, I can't believe these student athletes live such an impoverished lifestyle.  Flying all over the country on private jets to play a game.  So taken advantage of...

 

Why is it, do you think, college athletic departments have the resources to use private jets?
Could it be, oh I don't know, they generate billions of dollars in revenue largely through the efforts of a labor force that's woefully underpaid via artificial means?

[Dr. Blackheart]

With a graduation rate near zero for African American, St. Bo recruited players, what is the value of an athlete's scholarship?  Quit the scam, pay the players, and get their income on the tax roles.  Similarly, charge them rent for these riduclous publicly funded athletic dorms.

[wadesworld]

Why is it, do you think, college athletic departments have the resources to use private jets?
Could it be, oh I don't know, they generate billions of dollars in revenue largely through the efforts of a labor force that's woefully underpaid via artificial means?

With a graduation rate near zero for African American, St. Bo recruited players, what is the value of an athlete's scholarship?  Quit the scam, pay the players, and get their income on the tax roles.  Similarly, charge them rent for these riduclous publicly funded athletic dorms.

Okay.  So you simply want the athletes to be compensated what "market value" says they're worth.  So only the top athletes at the top football and basketball programs will be paid anything worth their time.  The rest of the student athletes out there?  Well, you'll have to take out student loans to pay for your schooling, you won't be able to have a student job because all your "free" time will be dedicated to your sport, yet you still have to find a way to pay for your food, your clothes, your gear, etc.  Good luck!

My question now is this.  Since we want to pay "market value" to these student athletes, do student athletes on non-revenue sports now have to pay the school to participate in their athletic team, since they are losing the school money and the market says they're a net negative?

Seems absurd to me, but okay!

[Jay Bee]

AUDIT

[Pakuni]

Okay.  So you simply want the athletes to be compensated what "market value" says they're worth.  So only the top athletes at the top football and basketball programs will be paid anything worth their time.  The rest of the student athletes out there?  Well, you'll have to take out student loans to pay for your schooling, you won't be able to have a student job because all your "free" time will be dedicated to your sport, yet you still have to find a way to pay for your food, your clothes, your gear, etc.  Good luck!

My question now is this.  Since we want to pay "market value" to these student athletes, do student athletes on non-revenue sports now have to pay the school to participate in their athletic team, since they are losing the school money and the market says they're a net negative?

Seems absurd to me, but okay!

Right ... because that extreme is the only  possible alternative.
There's no way the NCAA - which generated $1 billion in revenue in 2014, but apparently is run by very stupid people - could possibly come up with a means to be more equitable with the students who generate those revenues without blowing up all college athletics as we know it.

I mean, it's not like anyone has ever proposed a reasonable plan to better compensate pay athletes without ending college sports.
Oh, wait ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/09/sports/a-way-to-start-paying-college-athletes.html?_r=0

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ncaa-critics-offer-ways-to-pay-college-players/

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-02-11/sports/ct-sherman-media-spt-0212-20140212_1_jay-bilas-ncaa-athletes-espn-college-basketball-analyst

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2011/09/how-to-pay-college-athletes-a-three-part-plan/245387/

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I could hear an argument that college athletes deserve to be paid more. But Hayes is severely undeerrating the value of his experience. He gets a lot more than "just" a scholarship. Room & board, weekly stipend, access to support services not available to non-athlete students, and coaching/training for some of the best in the business.

Hell, just the tuition is about $40,000 a year for Hayes. That's more than most people in the D-League.

[Pakuni]

I could hear an argument that college athletes deserve to be paid more. But Hayes is severely undeerrating the value of his experience. He gets a lot more than "just" a scholarship. Room & board, weekly stipend, access to support services not available to non-athlete students, and coaching/training for some of the best in the business.

Hell, just the tuition is about $40,000 a year for Hayes. That's more than most people in the D-League.

This may very well be true, but even so the value of every benefit Hayes receives is still markedly less than the revenue he produces for Wisconsin.
According to a study a few years back (link below) if there were even just 50-50 revenue sharing in college basketball, the average player would earn more than $266K a year. The average FBS football player would get $114,000 a year. An athletic scholarship is certainly valuable, but it doesn't come close to matching the value players generate for their schools.

http://assets.usw.org/ncpa/pdfs/6-Billion-Heist-Study_Major-Findings.pdf

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This may very well be true, but even so the value of every benefit Hayes receives is still markedly less than the revenue he produces for Wisconsin.
According to a study a few years back (link below) if there were even just 50-50 revenue sharing in college basketball, the average player would earn more than $266K a year. The average FBS football player would get $114,000 a year. An athletic scholarship is certainly valuable, but it doesn't come close to matching the value players generate for their schools.

http://assets.usw.org/ncpa/pdfs/6-Billion-Heist-Study_Major-Findings.pdf

Isn't that business? I'm pretty sure I generate more value for my company than what they pay me. Don't NBA player generate more money than what the NBA pays them? Honestly asking, I don't know what a good comparison would be.

[Pakuni]

Isn't that business? I'm pretty sure I generate more value for my company than what they pay me. Don't NBA player generate more money than what the NBA pays them? Honestly asking, I don't know what a good comparison would be.

Right. But my point is, the value of a scholarship and all the other benefits student athletes receive is far less than even half of what they generate in revenue, like closer to 10 percent of the value they generate.
It's a very bad deal for them. Put it to you this way ... how many schools do you think would, if given the choice, have players fund 100 percent of their own tuition, food, costs and all their other benefits, in exchange for even a 35-65 split of revenues?
For MU, by the way, that would equate to about $161,000 per player in the 2013-14 season.

[forgetful]

Right. But my point is, the value of a scholarship and all the other benefits student athletes receive is far less than even half of what they generate in revenue, like closer to 10 percent of the value they generate.
It's a very bad deal for them. Put it to you this way ... how many schools do you think would, if given the choice, have players fund 100 percent of their own tuition, food, costs and all their other benefits, in exchange for even a 35-65 split of revenues?
For MU, by the way, that would equate to about $161,000 per player in the 2013-14 season.

Where will the money come from, the vast majority of Universities lose money on football and basketball and nearly all lose money on athletics. 

Should taxpayers foot the bill to provide college athletes with more money?  Should tuition go up even more to offset the higher expenses.  Or should new facilities, nice travel/accomodations go out the window and go back to kids riding the bus to games and staying at a motel 6, reusing old gear from season to season etc.

[GooooMarquette]

Right. But my point is, the value of a scholarship and all the other benefits student athletes receive is far less than even half of what they generate in revenue, like closer to 10 percent of the value they generate.

Like a lower level associate at a big law firm, who might be making $80k while partners make millions.

[Badgerhoney]

This may very well be true, but even so the value of every benefit Hayes receives is still markedly less than the revenue he produces for Wisconsin.
According to a study a few years back (link below) if there were even just 50-50 revenue sharing in college basketball, the average player would earn more than $266K a year. The average FBS football player would get $114,000 a year. An athletic scholarship is certainly valuable, but it doesn't come close to matching the value players generate for their schools.

http://assets.usw.org/ncpa/pdfs/6-Billion-Heist-Study_Major-Findings.pdf

You can imagine this is a hot topic on our message boards.  Here is where many of us fall.  How can you determine what is the revenue that Hayes specifically produces for our school?  The tv money was coming in whether Hayes played for us or not.  Fans have been attending games for 75 years, because of the name on the front of the uniform.  We watch the teams on tv because of the name on the front of the uniform.

Aren't you also not factoring in the lifetime value of a college degree that is earned?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Right. But my point is, the value of a scholarship and all the other benefits student athletes receive is far less than even half of what they generate in revenue, like closer to 10 percent of the value they generate.
It's a very bad deal for them. Put it to you this way ... how many schools do you think would, if given the choice, have players fund 100 percent of their own tuition, food, costs and all their other benefits, in exchange for even a 35-65 split of revenues?
For MU, by the way, that would equate to about $161,000 per player in the 2013-14 season.

I would guess that I make about 10% of the "revenue" I generate for my university. I guess I don't see the issue. To me it seems like normal business. Also like Chicos, I mean, Badgerhoney said, I think people are overestimating how much revenue specific players generate.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

How much revenue does an NBA 12th man generate?  Long snapper?  Middle reliever?

Even at the professional level, people are watching by and large for the name on the front of the jersey.  So calculating an individual's specific revenue generation is a false metric.

I agree that college athletes are well compensated, but I also think football and basketball players deserve more of the cut.  Not sure the best way to go about that or exactly how much each player should get.