The Official Cubs Win The World Series Thread

[mreezybreezy]

Going from an ERA well over 5 to an ERA under 2 at the young age of 28?  Very common.  Happens all the time.  Just coaching, baby.  Especially in a sport where everyone has always found a way around banned substance testing.

Yeah, I need the clue.

Lol.

Here's a guy with an ERA well over 5 and then became a Cy Young at 28

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml

Greg Maddux was on PEDs though.

Clown.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Yea, football has kinda turned a blind eye to PED use haven't they? I would be fine if the MLB did the same kinda thing.

[wadesworld]

Here's a guy with an ERA well over 5 and then became a Cy Young at 28

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml

Greg Maddux was on PEDs though.

Clown.

Wow man.  You really hurt my feelings.   

But yeah.  Well over 5...as a 20/21 year old.  And the 20 year old season he pitched in 6 games.  So he had 1 bad season as a 21 year old and then was a very, very good starter from there.  Shocking that a 21 year old in his first year in the bigs would improve in his second year as a 22 year old I tell ya.  Not exactly the same as a 27 year who spends 5 years going up and down between the majors/minors who suddenly at 28 becomes the best pitcher in baseball.

Good comparison though.  You're on a roll!

[wadesworld]

Yea, football has kinda turned a blind eye to PED use haven't they? I would be fine if the MLB did the same kinda thing.

+1.  Anabolic steroids?  Yeah, that kind of diminishes the game.  But some of the stuff that just helps keep you on the field?  Meh, not a big deal to me.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4153&position=P

But sure.  The 28 year old just happened to go from a bad MLB pitcher to the best in the world in 1 offseason naturally, in a game where everyone has always found a way to be a step ahead of the system.  The 5'10", 150 lb, 9 career homer Dee Gordon uses PEDs but no chance in hell that the guy who developed into the best pitcher at the age that all athletes develop at, 28 years old, used them.

Right - a whole one MPH difference.  Same as the data I had posted previously in the thread:

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=453562&time=&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=10/27/2016&s_type=2

Not the 2-4 MPH difference you were spouting off about. 

And once again, he did not go from a terrible pitcher to a great pitcher in one year.  Sure, his historical stretch was an outlier, but his numbers improved from 2013 to 2014 to 2015.

Are you really this stupid or just trolling at this point? 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

As they say, "The lady doth protest too much."

Chances are pretty high that his peers in the MLB would have a better idea about whether a player is doping or not.  Apparently his peers think he is, too.  But that can't be possible, he told Cubs fans he didn't!

Weird that all he denies is steroid use.  No kidding you've past your drug tests because you don't use steroids.  That's the drug of the past in the MLB.  That would get caught even at the lowest level.  Nobody in baseball uses steroids anymore.

Other PEDs?  Glad he didn't lie about not using those.

Or maybe he doesn't appreciate turds like you questioning his success that's based off of hard work and perseverance. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Going from an ERA well over 5 to an ERA under 2 at the young age of 28?  Very common.  Happens all the time.  Just coaching, baby.  Especially in a sport where everyone has always found a way around banned substance testing.

Yeah, I need the clue.

Lol.

BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.  Repeating something over and over and over again that is not true doesn't make it true. 

[Pakuni]

2016 Cubs fans who can't at least understand why it's a legitimate question - which is not the same thing as saying he's guilty - are the same as 1998 Cubs fans who wouldn't stand for any talk of Sammy Sosa being a juicer.

[LAZER]

2016 Cubs fans who can't at least understand why it's a legitimate question - which is not the same thing as saying he's guilty - are the same as 1998 Cubs fans who wouldn't stand for any talk of Sammy Sosa being a juicer.

I think most understand the question based on the history of MLB, but if the thought process is "everyone in MLB is trying to cheat and use PED's and just because they don't test positive doesn't mean they're clean"...why single out Arrieta? Why wouldn't you use this logic for all superstars and all elite MLB players?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

2016 Cubs fans who can't at least understand why it's a legitimate question - which is not the same thing as saying he's guilty - are the same as 1998 Cubs fans who wouldn't stand for any talk of Sammy Sosa being a juicer.

I don't have a huge problem with the question, although I think it is lazy in this particular instance.  I do take issue with someone holding steadfastly to an ignorant view despite pretty strong evidence against that view. 

[wadesworld]

BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.  Repeating something over and over and over again that is not true doesn't make it true.

Yeah, I'm the stupid one here and I'm the one who's repeating something over and over without it being true.

Oh wait...

He went from an ERA well over 5 on his career over his first 4 seasons in the MLB (238 earned runs in 409 innings pitched which gets you to an ERA of 5.23 from 2010-2013).  In 2014 (see: THE VERY NEXT YEAR!) he had an ERA of...drumroll please...2.53!  It appears simple math is difficult for you so here you go.  2.53 x 2 = 5.06.  5.06 (double what his 2014 ERA was) is LESS THAN 5.23...his career ERA up until 2014!  So...uhh...what didn't happen again?  Who's stupid here?

Lol.

[wadesworld]

I think most understand the question based on the history of MLB, but if the thought process is "everyone in MLB is trying to cheat and use PED's and just because they don't test positive doesn't mean they're clean"...why single out Arrieta? Why wouldn't you use this logic for all superstars and all elite MLB players?

I have said as much multiple times on here before.

[Pakuni]

I think most understand the question based on the history of MLB, but if the thought process is "everyone in MLB is trying to cheat and use PED's and just because they don't test positive doesn't mean they're clean"...why single out Arrieta? Why wouldn't you use this logic for all superstars and all elite MLB players?

Because Arrieta's career arc is significantly different than all elite MLB players. He was at best a middling pitcher whose performance dramatically improved in a short period of time at an age when that kind of uptick is very rarely seen. 2015 Jake Arrieta was 1996 Brady Anderson. That, combined with the changes in his physical appearance, makes the questions valid. Maybe not fair, but valid.

Jake Arrieta 2012:


Jake Arrieta 2015:

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Yeah, I'm the stupid one here and I'm the one who's repeating something over and over without it being true.

Oh wait...

He went from an ERA well over 5 on his career over his first 4 seasons in the MLB (238 earned runs in 409 innings pitched which gets you to an ERA of 5.23 from 2010-2013).  In 2014 (see: THE VERY NEXT YEAR!) he had an ERA of...drumroll please...2.53!  It appears simple math is difficult for you so here you go.  2.53 x 2 = 5.06.  5.06 (double what his 2014 ERA was) is LESS THAN 5.23...his career ERA up until 2014!  So...uhh...what didn't happen again?  Who's stupid here?

Lol.

You never specified career ERA.  Basically you're just manipulating numbers to serve your idiotic narrative.

ERA's after coming to the Cubs:

2013:  3.66
2014: 2.53
2015: 1.77
2016: 3.10

This is not an "overnight" drastic change.  Should be simple enough for you to follow along.

[Wally Schroeder]

Yeah, I'm the stupid one here and I'm the one who's repeating something over and over without it being true.

Oh wait...

He went from an ERA well over 5 on his career over his first 4 seasons in the MLB (238 earned runs in 409 innings pitched which gets you to an ERA of 5.23 from 2010-2013).  In 2014 (see: THE VERY NEXT YEAR!) he had an ERA of...drumroll please...2.53!  It appears simple math is difficult for you so here you go.  2.53 x 2 = 5.06.  5.06 (double what his 2014 ERA was) is LESS THAN 5.23...his career ERA up until 2014!  So...uhh...what didn't happen again?  Who's stupid here?

Lol.

I'm sure the guy learning how to pitch, commanding his pitches, and walking fewer batters had nothing to do it.

Asking the question is fair - trust, but verify. No failed drug tests, which is of course true of everyone until their first failure.

BB/9 & FIP:
2010: 4.3 - 4.76
2011: 4.4 - 5.34
2012: 2.7 - 4.05
2013: 4.9 - 4.84
2014: 2.4 - 2.26
2015: 1.9 - 2.35
2016: 3.5 - 3.52

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Because Arrieta's career arc is significantly different than all elite MLB players. He was at best a middling pitcher whose performance dramatically improved in a short period of time at an age when that kind of uptick is very rarely seen. 2015 Jake Arrieta was 1996 Brady Anderson. That, combined with the changes in his physical appearance, makes the questions valid. Maybe not fair, but valid.

Jake Arrieta 2012:


Jake Arrieta 2015:

Could you have picked two more misleading pictures?

And yeah, guys don't train differently or put on muscle as they get older and move into their prime. 

[GGGG]

It would be kind of nice if people wouldn't talk in absolutes.

"I don't think he uses PEDs."  or "I think he uses PEDs."

Because none of us here really knows either way...

[mreezybreezy]

Right - a whole one MPH difference.  Same as the data I had posted previously in the thread:

Are you really this stupid or just trolling at this point?

He really appears to be that stupid.

[Pakuni]

You never specified career ERA.  Basically you're just manipulating numbers to serve your idiotic narrative.

ERA's after coming to the Cubs:

2013:  3.66
2014: 2.53
2015: 1.77
2016: 3.10

This is not an "overnight" drastic change.  Should be simple enough for you to follow along.

ERA dropping two runs in two seasons isn't drastic? That happens regularly at 29 years old?
How about K per 9 (6.4 to 9.3)? Or HR per 9 (1.2 to 0.4)?
Also not drastic?

I get that you want to defend and believe in your guy. Nothing wrong with that. But somehow I doubt you'd be such a staunch defender if Arrieta played in St. Louis or Pittsburgh.

[wadesworld]

He really appears to be that stupid.

Oh no!  Now I'm not just a clown, I'm stupid too!   

[mu03eng]

If the Cubs come back, I wonder who gets defended/rationalized more Chapman or Arrieta.

[wadesworld]

You never specified career ERA.  Basically you're just manipulating numbers to serve your idiotic narrative.

ERA's after coming to the Cubs:

2013:  3.66
2014: 2.53
2015: 1.77
2016: 3.10

This is not an "overnight" drastic change.  Should be simple enough for you to follow along.

I absolutely specified career ERA.

Who said 2014 was bad? Lol. That's the year he went from a career ERA of well over 5 to 2.5 at the age of 28. Thought that was fairly clear what I've been talking about?

But okay.  I'm the stupid one who doesn't read and can't do basic math.

[MU82]

Davis should have attempted to steal home.

Davis stole second so easily, I don't know why he didn't just steal third on the very next pitch. He then would have scored the tying run on the fly to left that Zobrist stumbled under like a drunk sailor.

I like Francona, an excellent manager, but he waited one batter too long to let Davis stroll into third base with the easy steal.

[wadesworld]

I am am always doubtful when it comes to baseball players. When the MLB bans one substance, the next one takes its place and they're always finding ways to beat the system. Greenies to steroids to HGH to all the PEDs used now. I would be more surprised by all star baseball players who do it "naturally" than by those who use some kind of substance that is or should be banned. Heck Dee friggin Gordon got suspended for PED use. The guy is like 5'10" 150 lbs. and has 9 career home runs. Baseball players who DON'T use some sort of PED along the way have suuuuuch an up hill battle because all of their competition does.

I also said this, for anyone who thinks I'm singling out Arrieta.  I'm not, at all.  I think a huge, huge majority of baseball (and football) players take some sort of PEDs at some point in their careers, and most throughout their entire careers.  There are people out there who have always been able to find a way to get a competitive advantage without it popping up on a drug test.  I have nothing against Arrieta.  I would be shocked if he has not taken PEDs in his career.  Just like I'd be shocked if many, many other professional athletes out there haven't, including players on my favorite Brewers and Packers teams.  Heck, I personally think Giannis has probably taken some sort of PEDs.  To me?  No big deal.  I just find it funny when people act so shocked that someone could actually question a guy's word of "I didn't take anything."

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Do folks think Daniel Murphy is on PEDs because he suddenly became one of the best hitters in baseball this year at the age of 31?