MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on October 07, 2016, 05:34:57 AM
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As we say in Chicago, "vote early and vote often."
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http://www.drodd.com/images6/cubswin.au
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Well, since you asked... as a 40+ year Cub fan, I sometimes wonder what it's like to be able to fully enjoy your team's season when they are playing well. It is so mentally taxing to have to actively push back the feeling that you are walking on a carpet that might be covering up a bottomless pit and that carpet might fall in at any moment.
I did a pretty good job this year. This was the most fun I've had following the team. They seem like genuinely nice guys (well except for 1-2 huge exceptions) who are having fun AND winning.
That said I still think they have a less than 50% chance of winning the WS at this point so I have to vote no.
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First the Sports Illustrated cover, now this
The jinx is in
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A win is worth over 100 million beers...
https://www.google.com/amp/www.redeyechicago.com/sports/redeye-cubs-win-world-series-drink-100-million-beers-chicago-20161003-story,amp.html?client=safari
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I think this is the best cubs team in my lifetime. I have no rational reason for this , but my gut says the curse continues.
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Going to the games tonight and tomorrow. Bought a bleacher for tonight's game and going on season tickets that I split tomorrow. Focus will be a problem at work today.
Was hoping to face the Mets but time to put an end to the Giants even-year crap. And tee of on Samardzija tomorrow.
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Well, since you asked... as a 40+ year Cub fan, I sometimes wonder what it's like to be able to fully enjoy your team's season when they are playing well. It is so mentally taxing to have to actively push back the feeling that you are walking on a carpet that might be covering up a bottomless pit and that carpet might fall in at any moment.
I did a pretty good job this year. This was the most fun I've had following the team. They seem like genuinely nice guys (well except for 1-2 huge exceptions) who are having fun AND winning.
That said I still think they have a less than 50% chance of winning the WS at this point so I have to vote no.
The playoffs are a crapshoot. If you meant just less than 50% odds you take that all day, every day.
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I think the Cubs are built for these short series. Remind me of the Red Sox teams that Theo put together. If I were to bet, I think they will win. Biggest issue would be the Nationals.
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Going to the games tonight and tomorrow. Bought a bleacher for tonight's game and going on season tickets that I split tomorrow. Focus will be a problem at work today.
Was hoping to face the Mets but time to put an end to the Giants even-year crap. And tee of on Samardzija tomorrow.
Spoken like a young Cubs fan!
No matter how hard we try, us old-timers (~ age 35+) can't help thinking about how bad it is for the Cubs that they face the playoff-tested Giants in an even year and how they're likely to get shutout by ex-Cub Jeff Samardzija and even if they somehow get past SF, they'll get beat by Dusty Baker in the NLCS. We tend to think that way because, for the most part, that's ALWAYS how it's gone for us...and for our parents...and for many of us our grandparents. Being a Cubs fan isn't easy ;)
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Well, since you asked... as a 40+ year Cub fan, I sometimes wonder what it's like to be able to fully enjoy your team's season when they are playing well. It is so mentally taxing to have to actively push back the feeling that you are walking on a carpet that might be covering up a bottomless pit and that carpet might fall in at any moment.
I did a pretty good job this year. This was the most fun I've had following the team. They seem like genuinely nice guys (well except for 1-2 huge exceptions) who are having fun AND winning.
That said I still think they have a less than 50% chance of winning the WS at this point so I have to vote no.
Similar. I've tried to separate the regular season from the playoffs this year. The regular season has been a ton of fun, and no matter what happens this month, I'm trying to not let it invade that experience.
Probably won't work.
I'm nervous.
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I think the Cubs are built for these short series. Remind me of the Red Sox teams that Theo put together. If I were to bet, I think they will win. Biggest issue would be the Nationals.
Not worried about the nats. The cubs put the smack on them plenty. I'm worried about the giants and dodgers.
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The Cubs are the favorites, however, they only have a 20% of winning the World Series.
There is still an 80% shot they don't win it all.
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Going to the games tonight and tomorrow. Bought a bleacher for tonight's game and going on season tickets that I split tomorrow. Focus will be a problem at work today.
Was hoping to face the Mets but time to put an end to the Giants even-year crap. And tee of on Samardzija tomorrow.
I'll be there Saturday in the upper deck.
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Spoken like a young Cubs fan!
No matter how hard we try, us old-timers (~ age 35+) can't help thinking about how bad it is for the Cubs that they face the playoff-tested Giants in an even year and how they're likely to get shutout by ex-Cub Jeff Samardzija and even if they somehow get past SF, they'll get beat by Dusty Baker in the NLCS. We tend to think that way because, for the most part, that's ALWAYS how it's gone for us...and for our parents...and for many of us our grandparents. Being a Cubs fan isn't easy ;)
I'm 40 - I wish I was young. I understand the pain, believe me. My grandpa is the reason I started watching the Cubs as a kid and he is no longer here, so there's a real emotional connection to my fandom.
I just choose not to think that way anymore. This is a new era and what has happened in the past has no impact on what's going to happen tonight or in the future. I respect the Giants and would have rather faced the Mets but the Cubs are the better team.
The post probably came off as overconfident, which I am not. I just don't want that fear to ruin the experience.
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I'll be there Saturday in the upper deck.
Nice. Section 108 for me tomorrow. Friday and Saturday night baseball at Wrigley will be something else.
I need a drink already.
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Not worried about the nats. The cubs put the smack on them plenty. I'm worried about the giants and dodgers.
Kind of like how the Cubs went 7-0 against the Mets last season?
The post probably came off as overconfident, which I am not. I just don't want that fear to ruin the experience.
There it is! I haven't reached that point yet. I think I just need the games to actually start. That's when I can finally get out of my head and watch things play out.
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Sox fan here and avid fan of Billy Goats, just moved to Lakeview for one year so this is the only time in my whole life I'll root for the cubs. Don't let me down.
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I'm 40 - I wish I was young. I understand the pain, believe me. My grandpa is the reason I started watching the Cubs as a kid and he is no longer here, so there's a real emotional connection to my fandom.
I just choose not to think that way anymore. This is a new era and what has happened in the past has no impact on what's going to happen tonight or in the future. I respect the Giants and would have rather faced the Mets but the Cubs are the better team.
The post probably came off as overconfident, which I am not. I just don't want that fear to ruin the experience.
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My Yanks are in a mini drought, but will be back with that 28th championship. I wonder if our drought will end before the Cubs. I do love Wrigley; one of the best places to watch a ballgame.
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It will be fun to watch the Cubs and their fans get crushed. Again.
#SouthSide
#BartmanIsMyHero
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It will be fun to watch the Cubs and their fans get crushed. Again.
#SouthSide
#BartmanIsMyHero
I used to like you.
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There it is! I haven't reached that point yet. I think I just need the games to actually start. That's when I can finally get out of my head and watch things play out.
Don't get me wrong - I'm already incredibly nervous and I'm sure there's that small part of silly fear somewhere in the back of my mind. I'll be very surprise if they're not ready.
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My Yanks are in a mini drought, but will be back with that 28th championship. I wonder if our drought will end before the Cubs. I do love Wrigley; one of the best places to watch a ballgame.
The Cubs are built to last so while nothing is guaranteed I think the Cubs will have multiple shots at it over the next 5-7 years if they don't do it this year.
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It will be fun to watch the Cubs and their fans get crushed. Again.
#SouthSide
#BartmanIsMyHero
::)
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Sox fan here and avid fan of Billy Goats, just moved to Lakeview for one year so this is the only time in my whole life I'll root for the cubs. Don't let me down.
Unfortunately, that's what they've been doing to the Cubs fan base for over a century. The reality is most teams do the same. You have a competitive environment where 28-29 teams are considered losers and 1-2 are not, if your fan base can "settle" for winning the league title. Except for maybe the Yankees and Giants (the past decade, at least), fans of every single team will say, "classic team x to lose this series and let me down, blah, blah blah."
I live in Lakeview too, and I'm a diehard, so I hope they don't let you down either.
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Going to the games tonight and tomorrow. Bought a bleacher for tonight's game and going on season tickets that I split tomorrow. Focus will be a problem at work today.
Was hoping to face the Mets but time to put an end to the Giants even-year crap. And tee of on Samardzija tomorrow.
I'll be in the CF bleachers tonight too! It'll be my first play-off game.
Been trying not to think about it much, even though I'm decked out in Cubs gear, or focus would have been a real issue this morning.
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Would be nice to see the Giants staff do as the Mets did last year.
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Here's an interesting question to ponder. IF the Cubs win the pennant (not done in most folks lifetime) but fail to win the Series will that be considered success or failure by their faithful?
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I'll be in the CF bleachers tonight too! It'll be my first play-off game.
Been trying not to think about it much, even though I'm decked out in Cubs gear, or focus would have been a real issue this morning.
I've got two hours left before I head home and start hydrating. I'm in section 306 tonight in left-center.
You'll absolutely love the atmosphere tonight.
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Here's an interesting question to ponder. IF the Cubs win the pennant (not done in most folks lifetime) but fail to win the Series will that be considered success or failure by their faithful?
I'd call it a success, Glow.
Obviously, the World Series is the goal, but that's doing something that hasn't been done in 69 years, the lifetime of most fans. Additionally, the core returns next year, so it's not like their opportunity is gone forever.
Side note: I searched high and low last year for a radio clip of the Cubs winning the pennant in '45 and came up empty, but I stumbled into an interview with Pat Hughes who says there's no record of a radio broadcast. So he'll have the opportunity to make the Cubs first pennant winning call, assuming it happens in his tenure. Radio was barely invented, and certainly not used for sports, back in 1908. Pretty wild.
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Would be nice to see the Giants staff do as the Mets did last year.
It would be nice for you to shut your filthy whore mouth but we don't always get what we want. :)
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Here's an interesting question to ponder. IF the Cubs win the pennant (not done in most folks lifetime) but fail to win the Series will that be considered success or failure by their faithful?
I would be very disappointed but I certainly wouldn't consider it a failure.
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Here's an interesting question to ponder. IF the Cubs win the pennant (not done in most folks lifetime) but fail to win the Series will that be considered success or failure by their faithful?
As of now, I'd consider it a success. Feelings will likely change if it were to happen though. Also the how of it plays a big role.
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Nail biter tonight.
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Pence reminds me of Rusty Staub
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W
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Geez, Pete Rose on Fox.
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Let the goats out of the barn
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Let the goats out of the barn
I love the reactions after this game. 1-0 win, it seems like the WS is a foregone conclusion on social media. Had Pence hit a 2-run homer, it would be disaster and the Cubs are capitulating.
These 5-game series are a bitch for teams. Game 1 is just immense. Based on the first few days, this will be a fun playoffs.
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I love the reactions after this game. 1-0 win, it seems like the WS is a foregone conclusion on social media. Had Pence hit a 2-run homer, it would be disaster and the Cubs are capitulating.
These 5-game series are a bitch for teams. Game 1 is just immense. Based on the first few days, this will be a fun playoffs.
Social media is pretty accurate.
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2 of the last 25 teams with the best record have won the series so yes, it's a crap shoot. You just have to get to the playoffs as many times as possible and the Cubs are built to do that. If it's not this year I think it'll be in the next 4 or 5 years.
Certainly better not to have to wait.....Go Cubbies.
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Chicago Cubs TV Ratings Have Exploded
http://www.bleachernation.com/2016/10/06/chicago-cubs-tv-ratings-have-exploded/
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct2PBBCXYAAWSdk.jpg:large)
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Chicago Cubs TV Ratings Have Exploded
http://www.bleachernation.com/2016/10/06/chicago-cubs-tv-ratings-have-exploded/
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct2PBBCXYAAWSdk.jpg:large)
This ties nicely to your other thread as a reason why baseball ratings aren't suffering the way football ratings are. First, these playoffs have been fantastic on-field product, unlike the NFL. Second, there is a fascination with one of the great sports stories in American sports history. I'll be very curious to see how Cubs/Giants game 3 with Arrieta and Bumgarner on the mound does against Monday Night Football, especially if the Cubs have a chance to clinch.
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Samardzija sucked every time I saw him pitch for the Cubs. Dennis Eckersly level of suck. Let's hope he keeps it up tonight.
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True to form.
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This ties nicely to your other thread as a reason why baseball ratings aren't suffering the way football ratings are. First, these playoffs have been fantastic on-field product, unlike the NFL. Second, there is a fascination with one of the great sports stories in American sports history. I'll be very curious to see how Cubs/Giants game 3 with Arrieta and Bumgarner on the mound does against Monday Night Football, especially if the Cubs have a chance to clinch.
Can you point to the MLB players taking a knee during the anthem and a massive social effort to boycott the MLB. In other words, the poor comparison you just made where none of that is happening in the MLB, but is in the NFL.
Are baseball fans not impacted by the elections, only NFL fans?
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Thanks for Addison and for sucking every time the Cubs face you, Jeff.
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Chicago Cubs TV Ratings Have Exploded
http://www.bleachernation.com/2016/10/06/chicago-cubs-tv-ratings-have-exploded/
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct2PBBCXYAAWSdk.jpg:large)
If the Cubs had the White Sox's record and the Bears were looking like a reincarnation of the '85 Super Bowl Shufflers, I guarantee that Bears ratings would be through the stratosphere in Chicago and Cubs ratings would be down.
And I'd posit that would have been the case even if the Bears' backup QB had taken a knee during the anthem.
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Can you point to the MLB players taking a knee during the anthem and a massive social effort to boycott the MLB. In other words, the poor comparison you just made where none of that is happening in the MLB, but is in the NFL.
Are baseball fans not impacted by the elections, only NFL fans?
Sure. Not sure it's a valid comparison, but knock yourself out. As MU82 noted, if the Bears were 4-0 and steam rolling and the Cubs were home, I'm confident you'd see a ratings reversal in Chicago, even if Colin Kaepernick himself was the one leading them to victories.
And it's entirely possible that baseball fans are less impacted by the elections. First, October is baseball's biggest month. It's the freaking playoffs. If they are putting out a good product, it stands to reason that their fans will tune in, and said fans are accustomed to politics running concurrent to their season as it happens every election year. For the NFL, this time of year simply isn't as important, and statistics have shown that the NFL has had ratings dips in election years in the past. Maybe NFL fans are just more politically conscious. Who knows?
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I will also point out that the NFL is having problems with its *national* games. Those are games where fans are largely not tuning in to "their team," but to a game that they watch for the sake of watching football. Those games have been bad, and even then, other forms of entertainment can draw away attention. Viewers don't have loyalty to those games.
The regional ratings have only slipped slightly. Those are more likely to be games where "their team" is playing. People are largely still watching those games regardless of the quality, etc.
For instance, tonight's NFL game is going to be a disaster in the ratings. I will watch because I'm a Packer fan. I would watch the debate otherwise, and even now I will likely switch back and forth. If the debate gets interesting and the game less so, I will likely keep it on.
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Let's finish this off tonight, Jake.
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Wow, Arietta. First home run Bumgarner ever gave up to a pitcher.
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Cubs look great
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Bananas.jpg)
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Bananas.jpg)
Did you post before or after HR in top of 9th?
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After
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If the Cubs lose tonight, does a whiff of panic, harking back to 1984 and 2003, set in?
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If the Cubs lose tonight, does a whiff of panic, harking back to 1984 and 2003, set in?
Any team in the history of baseball would feel "a whiff of panic," if facing an elimination game.
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If the Cubs lose tonight, does a whiff of panic, harking back to 1984 and 2003, set in?
Of course. Nature of a series going from 2-0 to 2-2 and facing a pitcher that had a great outing against you a week earlier.
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Thanks for Addison and for sucking every time the Cubs face you, Jeff.
I think that is what you meant, going back to our previous conversation this year. ;)
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Any team in the history of baseball would feel "a whiff of panic," if facing an elimination game.
Really? Have you ever heard of the San Francisco Giants?
Edit: Having a terrible bullpen isn't the same as panicking.
Double Edit: Maybe that was a terrible pen made worse by panic.
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Two guys who I think belong among the top 5 managers in the game - Showalter & Bochy - made the moves that cost their teams a chance to move on.
If I am managing the Cubs, I have to get to the point where Will Smith needs to come into the game. If I get there, I am going to win. And making the move to pinch hit for a guy who had 95 Ribbies with the game on the line got then the matchup they needed.
As a Brewer fan, I was happy to see Will Smith traded. He was the last guy I wanted on the mound in a close game. He almost always had good numbers, but I thought they were always better than the actual pitcher.
Next? I predict Cubs in 5 or 6 no matter who they play. Tonight was the kind of game that Al said you always had to have at some point to win a championship.
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I agree, the Cubs should cruise to the WS. You would have to combine the Nats and Dodgers to have a team that could beat the Cubs.
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I agree, the Cubs should cruise to the WS. You would have to combine the Nats and Dodgers to have a team that could beat the Cubs.
Look at you trying to jinx the Cubs. :)
What a comeback. And not having to face Kershaw or Scherzer in game 1 is nice. Very nice. Either team will be very tough.
And Conor f'n Gillaspie?!?
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I think that is what you meant, going back to our previous conversation this year. ;)
He's no Shields! :D
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Fun series to watch, especially if, like me, one didn't really care who won. I just wanted compelling baseball, and the Cubbies and Giants provided it.
After Rizzo walked, I actually said out loud to my dog, "Zobrist is going to tie it with a homer." I was wrong, but not by that much.
If you don't believe me, ask my dog. Or ask Hannity - your choice.
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Query: Were those Cub fans who were opposed to the signing of Chapman rooting for him to blow the save?
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Query: Were those Cub fans who were opposed to the signing of Chapman rooting for him to blow the save?
The Cubs didn't sign Chapman.
To answer your question, I didn't like the trade but I was absolutely rooting for the team to win the game.
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Query: Were those Cub fans who were opposed to the signing of Chapman rooting for him to blow the save?
I would have been fine with him blowing the save and the Cubs winning in extras.
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Two guys who I think belong among the top 5 managers in the game - Showalter & Bochy - made the moves that cost their teams a chance to move on.
If I am managing the Cubs, I have to get to the point where Will Smith needs to come into the game. If I get there, I am going to win. And making the move to pinch hit for a guy who had 95 Ribbies with the game on the line got then the matchup they needed.
As a Brewer fan, I was happy to see Will Smith traded. He was the last guy I wanted on the mound in a close game. He almost always had good numbers, but I thought they were always better than the actual pitcher.
Next? I predict Cubs in 5 or 6 no matter who they play. Tonight was the kind of game that Al said you always had to have at some point to win a championship.
Bochy is going into the HOF as a manager but he botched that 9th inning.
Coghlan is hitting .195 vs righties on the season (.120 vs LHP!) but you have to know that Maddon is going to swap him out once a pitching change is made. Take your chances with Coghlan against a righty in that situation. Later, how do you pitch to Baez with first open and Ross on deck? Are you scared of Miguel Montero or Tommy La Stella as a PH?
Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful for the moves but I couldn't believe what I was watching for a number of reasons!
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Bochy is going into the HOF as a manager but he botched that 9th inning.
Coghlan is hitting .195 vs righties on the season (.120 vs LHP!) but you have to know that Maddon is going to swap him out once a pitching change is made. Take your chances with Coghlan against a righty in that situation. Later, how do you pitch to Baez with first open and Ross on deck? Are you scared of Miguel Montero or Tommy La Stella as a PH?
Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful for the moves but I couldn't believe what I was watching for a number of reasons!
Not to mention that he tried to get too cute with a fastball, missed his spot, and Baez put it into center.
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Not to mention that he tried to get too cute with a fastball, missed his spot, and Baez put it into center.
True. It rarely ends well when a slider pitcher throws a fastball to a pure fastball hitter. Smoltz was beside himself.
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Bochy is going into the HOF as a manager but he botched that 9th inning.
Coghlan is hitting .195 vs righties on the season (.120 vs LHP!) but you have to know that Maddon is going to swap him out once a pitching change is made. Take your chances with Coghlan against a righty in that situation. Later, how do you pitch to Baez with first open and Ross on deck? Are you scared of Miguel Montero or Tommy La Stella as a PH?
Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful for the moves but I couldn't believe what I was watching for a number of reasons!
Ross had a home run and 2 rbi's in the game. As well as being an excellent but with no outs. It would have been stupid to put runners on first and second with no outs with an incredible bunter at the plate.
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Ross had a home run and 2 rbi's in the game. As well as being an excellent but with no outs. It would have been stupid to put runners on first and second with no outs with an incredible bunter at the plate.
There was 1 out, the game was tied and the potential winning run was already on second. I'd take my chances with Ross (or a LH pinch hitter) over Baez.
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There was 1 out, the game was tied and the potential winning run was already on second. I'd take my chances with Ross (or a LH pinch hitter) over Baez.
Every time!! It was a no-brainer.
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Every time!! It was a no-brainer.
Ross actually ended up hitting into a DP after Baez's single. Obviously you can't assume that it would have turned out like that had Baez been put on but...
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@darrenrovell 44 minutes ago
Highest price paid for a World Series ticket in Chicago? A fan paid $71,800 for 4 tickets on StubHub to Game 5. Refunded if Cubs don't play.
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@darrenrovell 44 minutes ago
Highest price paid for a World Series ticket in Chicago? A fan paid $71,800 for 4 tickets on StubHub to Game 5. Refunded if Cubs don't play.
Stupid, but it is Chicago.
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@darrenrovell 44 minutes ago
Highest price paid for a World Series ticket in Chicago? A fan paid $71,800 for 4 tickets on StubHub to Game 5. Refunded if Cubs don't play.
Do they get a discount if it isn't a potential clinching game?
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Do they get a discount if it isn't a potential clinching game?
Under $18k per ticket, (while insanely expensive), doesn't sound like the "highest price paid" for a Cubs WS ticket.
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ZiPS' probabilities: Cubs overwhelming favorites to win NLCS
http://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/17794648/zips-probabilities-cubs-overwhelming-favorites-win-nlcs-mlb
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8 more wins.
(http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/andre-dawson.jpg)
(http://garygaetti.com/garywrig)
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Do we have a tracker on Bartman?
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Do we have a tracker on Bartman?
He's throwing out the first pitch.
I wish the media would quit bringing up that poor guy. Any fan with half a brain cell places no blame on him at this point. Point at the professional who pissed on hands, the sure-handed Gonzo, or Dusty.
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He's throwing out the first pitch.
I wish the media would quit bringing up that poor guy. Any fan with half a brain cell places no blame on him at this point. Point at the professional who pissed on hands, the sure-handed Gonzo, or Dusty.
I would love it if the Cubs found a way to bring him into the celebration if they do end up winning. Talk about someone whose life got screwed up. They were talking about him on the Score the other day and how surreal that whole day was. If anyone deserves to be given a huge apology, it's him. Though honestly, outside winning a World Series, he'll always be viewed negatively by a segment of the fanbase.
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I would love it if the Cubs found a way to bring him into the celebration if they do end up winning. Talk about someone whose life got screwed up. They were talking about him on the Score the other day and how surreal that whole day was. If anyone deserves to be given a huge apology, it's him. Though honestly, outside winning a World Series, he'll always be viewed negatively by a segment of the fanbase.
My guess is if he is invited, which he may have been previously, he would turn it down. And I can't blame it. That inning is on Gonzalez and Dusty.
One of the many benefits when they win will hopefully be never having to hear about it from the media again.
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Baez with seeing eye double.
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This may be known as the Fowler Game.
Right up there with the Sandberg game.
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What a contrast in coverage.
Outstanding game coverage - announcers, camera angles, etc.
Then the game end .... and it is a disaster. Worst post-game coverage anywhere - for any sport.
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Well I'm glad montero is on the lineup.
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What a contrast in coverage.
Outstanding game coverage - announcers, camera angles, etc.
Then the game end .... and it is a disaster. Worst post-game coverage anywhere - for any sport.
?
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About montero's bat..... Nothing more to say.
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He's throwing out the first pitch.
I wish the media would quit bringing up that poor guy. Any fan with half a brain cell places no blame on him at this point. Point at the professional who pissed on hands, the sure-handed Gonzo, or Dusty.
The Cubs have offered Bartman a public reconciliation complete with throwing out the first pitch and even singing take me out to the ball game.
So why the Cubs were sincere in this effort Bartman turned them down. Bartman correctly concluded that the Cubs cannot prevent 40,000 fans from giving him the finger and throwing beer at him.
And I 100% agree with you, he has suffered way too much. Take it out on Mark Prior and Alex Gonzalez for that inexcusable error in the 8th.
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The Cubs have offered Bartman a public reconciliation complete with throwing out the first pitch and even singing take me out to the ball game.
So why the Cubs were sincere in this effort Bartman turned them down. Bartman correctly concluded that the Cubs cannot prevent 40,000 fans from giving him the finger and throwing beer at him.
And I 100% agree with you, he has suffered way too much. Take it out on Mark Prior and Alex Gonzalez for that inexcusable error in the 8th.
Im not sure how thats Prior's fault. He delivered a perfect double play ball.
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Im not sure how thats Prior's fault. He delivered a perfect double play ball.
I can't wait for the day when it's no longer a topic.
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Im not sure how thats Prior's fault. He delivered a perfect double play ball.
Prior allowed 8 straight battles reached after the Bartman incident, in the middle was Gonzalez error. Dusty did what he does best, mishandled the pitching staff (like Thursday night in Washington)
That who deserves the fans vitriol, not Bartman.
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I can't wait for the day when it's no longer a topic.
Oh man, me too. Or at least a footnote rather than the headline.
Great to see a home NLCS win after 4 consecutive losses dating back to '03. Wild game. Montero may find himself as part of Cubs lore like Roberts with the Sox. Different stakes, down 3 and PR stealing a base base v. PH game 1 grand slam, but both propelled their team's first victory.
Long way to go for the Cubs, of course, but a sweet game 1 victory.
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The Cubs have offered Bartman a public reconciliation complete with throwing out the first pitch and even singing take me out to the ball game.
So why the Cubs were sincere in this effort Bartman turned them down. Bartman correctly concluded that the Cubs cannot prevent 40,000 fans from giving him the finger and throwing beer at him.
And I 100% agree with you, he has suffered way too much. Take it out on Mark Prior and Alex Gonzalez for that inexcusable error in the 8th.
If Batman theoretically threw out a first pitch I think it would be to a mixed reception. A few thousand cheers, a thousand vicious boos, and a majority apathetic/trying to figure out who the hell Steve Bartman is. The problem would be the meatheads booing telling everyone what an awful guy this once regular fan was for reaching for a foul ball, and you have a potential for it to snowball and get ugly. I agree on his decision to stay the hell away.
And that '03 game, even with the sure-handed Gonzalez, errors happen. They're part of the game. What an awful time and costly error it was, and the blame for the loss rests with that play. However, I wouldn't call it inexcusable. Dusty's mishandling and leaving Prior out there was inexcusable, and effectively took the Cubs out of that game. He went the opposite route with Scherzer on Thursday, and we didn't get the chance to welcome back to a Chicago NLCS as a direct result.
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?
Great game coverage.
Pathetic post-game show. Arod and Rose may be the two worst studio guys in any sport. Frank not much better.
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Great game coverage.
Pathetic post-game show. Arod and Rose may be the two worst studio guys in any sport. Frank not much better.
I think ARod is actually pretty good. Knows the game, puts in the work, deals with Pete. Triple threat.
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7 more wins.
(http://manginphotography.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/8S8H1626-575x571.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/76/60/51/7660510aa8c9744c4b26b4ec4f1ac836.jpg)
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Jooooody, Jody Davis.
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Think about all the douchebags who cash in on infamy. They go on Dancing with the Stars or Celebrity Survivor or Kicking with the Kardashians or whatever.
Bartman could have cashed in but he didn't. All he wanted to do was be left alone. A Bartman interview would be THE plum get for any newspaper or TV journalist, but he has avoided the media, the limelight and the public.
I don't use words like heroic easily, and I won't use it here, but I really respect the way he has handled the aftermath by just trying to live his life in peace.
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Rizzo moved to 4th, Zobrist up to 3rd, Baez batting 5th, Soler starting tonight and batting 6th, with Russel moved down to 7th tonight.
I'm good with that.
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So far, through the 3rd inning of game 3, the cubs bats again look limp in the NLCS
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This is going great
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Cubs looking like the are on the road in San Diego a "few" years ago.
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Wonder if there's anything going on tonight that might impact TV ratings....
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F*ckin' will tell ya ders nothin' worse than a limp bat, ai na?
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I think the Subject title above is more appropriate.
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I desperately want the Cubs to win the World Series this year.
That said, regardless of the outcome of this postseason, fans need to still relish the position the team is in. We have now made the NLCS in back-to-back seasons, and the team looks like it should be in the playoffs more often than not for the foreseeable future. MLB Playoffs can be something of a crapshoot, (the 1/15 recent teams to win the WS after winning 100+ games has been mentioned ad nauseum in broadcasts); all we can really ask for is consistent chances.
Now we just have to win 3 of 5 followed by 4 of 7. We've got this.
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Now we just have to win 3 of 5 followed by 4 of 7. We've got this.
To find the last time the Cubs came back from a one-game deficit to win a playoff series, you have to go all the way back to 2015.
Hoping Urias looks more like Rick Ankiel than Bret Saberhagen (or Bum/Lackey) in his playoff start debut.
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Now we just have to win 3 of 5 followed by 4 of 7. We've got this.
You have to win 3 of 4 followed by 4 of 7. Still doable, but need to win tonight or big trouble.
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You have to win 3 of 4 followed by 4 of 7. Still doable, but need to win tonight or big trouble.
More than big trouble ... it is effectively over. Because if they lose tonight, you have to beat Kershaw to continue the season.
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More than big trouble ... it is effectively over. Because if they lose tonight, you have to beat Kershaw to continue the season.
Kershaw has been far from unbeatable in his Playoff career. Great start the other night. Can he do it two starts in a row? We'll see.
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Was just about to say that. Prior to the other night, Kershaw's career ERA was near 5 and the nattering nabobs were actually discussing if he was a great pitcher since historically he underperformed in the playoffs.
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The Marlins season was effectively over in '03 when they were down 3-1, even after winning game 5 they faced Mark Prior (2.43 ERA) and Kerry Wood (3.20 ERA) on the road. Yet they won the World Series. Sure, it's an uphill battle, but I highly doubt Joe and the team and sitting around looking at everything as an obstacle they can't overcome.
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Was just about to say that. Prior to the other night, Kershaw's career ERA was near 5 and the nattering nabobs were actually discussing if he was a great pitcher since historically he underperformed in the playoffs.
No one here said that.
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No one here said that.
Not every nattering nabob on the planet is on Scoop, brandy - though I confess sometimes it feels that way.
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If they can get through tonight (which I think they will) with a W, the pitching matchups are as follows:
Kershaw v Lester
Hendricks v Maeda/Hill
Arrieta v Maeda/Hill/Alex Wood?
Dodgers no doubt go Kershaw game 5 as if they advance (even if he pitches relief in Game 7) would pitch Game 1.
If they can get it back to wrigley with those matchups, i like the chances. It will not be as warm, guesses are the wind will be blowing in. Arrieta's biggest problem of late is the HR ball...wind in could negate that. Hendricks pitched just fine his game, just got out-dueled.
None if this matters if they don't make contact while at the plate.
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You have to win 3 of 4 followed by 4 of 7. Still doable, but need to win tonight or big trouble.
Damnit!
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It's weird, I love Hendricks probably my favorite player on the Cubs this year but every time he pitches, I get more nervous with him on the mound than Arietta, and there is absolutely no basis for that thinking.
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If they can get through tonight (which I think they will) with a W, the pitching matchups are as follows:
Kershaw v Lester
Hendricks v Maeda/Hill
Arrieta v Maeda/Hill/Alex Wood?
Dodgers no doubt go Kershaw game 5 as if they advance (even if he pitches relief in Game 7) would pitch Game 1.
If they can get it back to wrigley with those matchups, i like the chances. It will not be as warm, guesses are the wind will be blowing in. Arrieta's biggest problem of late is the HR ball...wind in could negate that. Hendricks pitched just fine his game, just got out-dueled.
None if this matters if they don't make contact while at the plate.
Kershaw will go game 5 moreso because it'd allow him to pitch a couple innings in a close game 7 if it gets there than to line up a rotation for the World Series.
In my opinion (and there very well may be some statistics to disprove my opinion), I think the Dodgers are better equipped to win games where neither team is relying on the long ball. So far they have not just hit the ball better, but just had better at bats overall in the series.
Tonight will be very interesting. Urias is a stud but is also the youngest pitcher ever to start a game in the post season (or maybe it's just a Championship series?). He made 2 starts against the Cubs this year. One he went 6 innings and gave up 1 run on 6 hits with 2 walks and 8 Ks. In the other he went 5 innings and gave up 5 earned runs on 8 hits, 1 walk, and 6 Ks. The Cubs haven't seen him for 2 months. Meanwhile the Dodgers haven't seen Lackey this year. Lackey didn't pitch very well his last time out, while Urias hasn't made a start in a month. Urias has an ERA of under 2.00 since the start of August in 39 innings.
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Kershaw will go game 5 moreso because it'd allow him to pitch a couple innings in a close game 7 if it gets there than to line up a rotation for the World Series.
In my opinion (and there very well may be some statistics to disprove my opinion), I think the Dodgers are better equipped to win games where neither team is relying on the long ball. So far they have not just hit the ball better, but just had better at bats overall in the series.
Tonight will be very interesting. Urias is a stud but is also the youngest pitcher ever to start a game in the post season (or maybe it's just a Championship series?). He made 2 starts against the Cubs this year. One he went 6 innings and gave up 1 run on 6 hits with 2 walks and 8 Ks. In the other he went 5 innings and gave up 5 earned runs on 8 hits, 1 walk, and 6 Ks. The Cubs haven't seen him for 2 months. Meanwhile the Dodgers haven't seen Lackey this year. Lackey didn't pitch very well his last time out, while Urias hasn't made a start in a month. Urias has an ERA of under 2.00 since the start of August in 39 innings.
And with that, Dave Roberts just said that Maeda will start Game 5 (not saying that won't change)...
Lackey did have a rough outing, but that was after not starting for a long time. Could have been rust, could have been just bad.
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Not every nattering nabob on the planet is on Scoop, brandy - though I confess sometimes it feels that way.
C'mon Lenny, get it right. It's "nattering nabobs of negativism".
You're probably as old as I am, so you should know> 8-)
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C'mon Lenny, get it right. It's "nattering nabobs of negativism".
You're probably as old as I am, so you should know> 8-)
Oh, I remember Spiro well - when he didn't have his hand out he could really turn a phrase!
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No one here said that.
Talking heads and sports radio.
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Talking heads and sports radio.
Sorry, Tower. I thought you were referring to my post asking how history would judge a great pitcher who has not done well in the post-season.
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Sorry, Tower. I thought you were referring to my post asking how history would judge a great pitcher who has not done well in the post-season.
To discuss the topic with ya. I think baseball is a lot less about winning it all then in other sports. In basketball and football one player can essentially carry a team to championships. (Jordan, Favre, Manning, Lebron, etc.) In baseball having a star player isn't enough. Either they only bat 3 to 4 times a game, or pitch one in every 5. This makes it very difficult for a team to win off just one player like Bryce Harper. So I don't think its expected or necessary for a player to do amazing and win in the post season. History is full of great players who never won. IE Ernie Banks.
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To discuss the topic with ya. I think baseball is a lot less about winning it all then in other sports. In basketball and football one player can essentially carry a team to championships. (Jordan, Favre, Manning, Lebron, etc.) In baseball having a star player isn't enough. Either they only bat 3 to 4 times a game, or pitch one in every 5. This makes it very difficult for a team to win off just one player like Bryce Harper. So I don't think its expected or necessary for a player to do amazing and win in the post season. History is full of great players who never won. IE Ernie Banks.
The knock on him in the playoffs has more to do with him not pitching well rather than his team's success. I think someone mentioned his ERA was over 5.
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Sorry, Tower. I thought you were referring to my post asking how history would judge a great pitcher who has not done well in the post-season.
No worries, brandx. I wasn't referring to anybody here. I heard it on two separate sports talk shows last week questioning whether Kershaw was truly elite, as his playoff record wasn't as good as his regular season record. One game later.......
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I feel better now.
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During the 2nd or 3rd inning last night when the score was 0-0, I tweeted what I thought was a weak attempt at humor and it turned out to be a premonition...
"December 2, 2016: "Remember when the Cubs went 20 straight innings without a run then erupted for 10 runs? That was awesome"
I wasted my one bout of ESP on a baseball game when I could have used it for good like winning the lottery.
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6 more wins.
(http://www.trendingtoplists.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/72557813_crop_north.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bTRasELCMcY/V06R572q8JI/AAAAAAABlPw/jf9EbTbB5DMh_MzgHshs_N2cC7x5dyyEwCLcB/s1600/Moreland%2B85T.jpg)
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5 more wins.
(http://baseballevolution.com/images/nomarcub.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9a/cb/29/9acb29f336121fa9f2ffa8fba09fd829.jpg)
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The moment is soon upon us.
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Kyle Schwarber back in the picture. VERY interesting
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Kyle Schwarber back in the picture. VERY interesting
Love the kid, but right now (assuming the lead holds) I wouldn't bring him in. Hasn't played all year, would he even be effective jumping in at the point of the World Series?
The idea of a big DH bat is tempting, but this team wins as much because of their defense. Schwarber hurts that more than he held in that regard. Don't mess with what's working.
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They got there. After 2003, I wasn't comfortable until the ump made the last punchout. Didn't think I'd ever see this. 4 more wins.
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Love the kid, but right now (assuming the lead holds) I wouldn't bring him in. Hasn't played all year, would he even be effective jumping in at the point of the World Series?
The idea of a big DH bat is tempting, but this team wins as much because of their defense. Schwarber hurts that more than he held in that regard. Don't mess with what's working.
If he's a possibility it's for DH and pinch hitting only.
This front office has earned a bit of trust.
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If he's a possibility it's for DH and pinch hitting only.
This front office has earned a bit of trust.
That's fair, though Maddon said on the postgame he wanted to stick with how they got there. Not sure if that was a specific reference to Schwarber, but expecting a hitter to regain his timing at this time of the season seems unrealistic.
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4 more wins.
(http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/2580464-outfielder-doug-glanville-of-the-chicago-cubs-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QMC8GZCZg6SlpE4CjQzZojFICDWkzqnCcRglG7fEmYv9wNdiSWgn%2FBayXd1oHz6eww%3D%3D)
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That's fair, though Maddon said on the postgame he wanted to stick with how they got there. Not sure if that was a specific reference to Schwarber, but expecting a hitter to regain his timing at this time of the season seems unrealistic.
I agree that timing is a concern but maybe they take him over Coghlan for the potential upside. Will be very interesting.
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That's fair, though Maddon said on the postgame he wanted to stick with how they got there. Not sure if that was a specific reference to Schwarber, but expecting a hitter to regain his timing at this time of the season seems unrealistic.
Actually, he'd probably be in over Zastryzny.
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I agree that timing is a concern but maybe they take him over Coghlan for the potential upside. Will be very interesting.
Agreed.
Not sure if they'll dump Z/what they'll do with number of pitchers, but if there's any chance at all Schwarber can help, give me him over Coghlan. Use him as a PH this week if need be, then consider him as a DH if that goes well and the series heads back to Cleveland.
You already have Almora and La Stella on the bench for defensive replacements (La Stella can bump Bryant or Baez to OF), so Coghlan's defensive advantage doesn't matter. If there's an injury that may keep out a starter but isn't bad enough to remove him from the roster (so you need an extra guy who can play OF), then you pretend Schwarber had a setback and replace him.
To me, this is a no-brainer if he's at all ready.
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Steve Bartman Probably Isn’t Going to Throw Out the First Pitch At Wrigley Field
2016-10-24 16:41:12.307 GMT
By Matt Bonesteel
Oct. 24 (Washington Post) -- The movement to have disgraced
Cubs fan Steve Bartman throw out the first pitch at a World
Series game this year has been picking up steam ever since the
North Siders clinched their first berth in the Fall Classic in 71
years on Saturday night. Yahoo's Jeff Passan says it's all about
finally turning the page on one of the darkest moments of the
Cubs' star-crossed history, especially because Bartman has
actively avoided the spotlight except for the apologetic
statement he issued after the events of Oct. 14, 2003, when he
got in the way of Moises Alou during Game 6 of the National
League Championship Series.
"Chicago owes Steve Bartman an apology," Passan writes. "And
nothing would be quite as fitting as watching him throw the first
pitch in the World Series he always hoped he'd get to see."
It's an opinion shared by the Chicago Tribune's John Kass.
"He paid for it with all the hatred and anger poured on him
that night when the Cubs blew a chance to get into the series in
2003. All he did was reach for a foul ball," he writes. "What
happened afterward wasn't his fault. The Cubs blew the game, but
Bartman was tossed into the maelstrom, and all the anxiety and
fear of Cubs Nation rained down on him."
Bartman has more or less disappeared since that fateful
night, turning down numerous offers to cash in on his infamy.
According to CNN, one hotel company offered him a six-week
Florida vacation; Bartman instead asked for gift certificates,
which he donated to charity. And now it looks like he'll be
staying in the shadows as the Cubs shoot for their first World
Series title since 1908.
"The likelihood that he would return to throw out a first
ball or anything like that is probably slim, none and no chance,"
Frank Murtha, his longtime friend and spokesman, told CNN.
"Steve's goal in all this has been to return to a normal life,
and the fact that we're still talking about it 13 years after the
fact is nothing short of bizarre."
And so we're left only with Bartman's apology from 13 years
ago and the feeling that there's probably no one cheering harder
for the Cubs to end all these years of misery.
"Had I thought for one second that the ball was playable or
had I seen Alou approaching I would have done whatever I could to
get out of the way and give Alou a chance to make the catch,"
Bartman wrote. "To Moises Alou, the Chicago Cubs organization,
Ron Santo, Ernie Banks, and Cub fans everywhere I am so truly
sorry from the bottom of this Cubs fan's broken heart."
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God just leave the guy alone and stop pretending that he needs some sort of public apology to set things right. It is clearly something he doesn't want. He just wants to be ignored.
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God just leave the guy alone and stop pretending that he needs some sort of public apology to set things right. It is clearly something he doesn't want. He just wants to be ignored.
Agreed. He easily could have cashed in on his infamy but he chose not to. He just wants to be left alone.
I know for a fact that he's been to Wrigley several times in the last 13 years. No one would recognize him unless he wore the hat, headphones, turtleneck and glasses. Even then, people likely wouldn't even believe it was him anyway. I truly hope that he'll be in attendance for at least one game this weekend. The guy is a HUGE Cubs fan. The best thing for him would not be to throw out the ceremonial first pitch, it would be for the press to stop mentioning him and let him be just another Cubs fan who's enjoying the hell out of this season.
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Agreed. He easily could have cashed in on his infamy but he chose not to. He just wants to be left alone.
I know for a fact that he's been to Wrigley several times in the last 13 years. No one would recognize him unless he wore the hat, headphones, turtleneck and glasses. Even then, people likely wouldn't even believe it was him anyway. I truly hope that he'll be in attendance for at least one game this weekend. The guy is a HUGE Cubs fan. The best thing for him would not be to throw out the ceremonial first pitch, it would be for the press to stop mentioning him and let him be just another Cubs fan who's enjoying the hell out of this season.
Well hopefully Saturday night's win puts an end to the poor guy being mentioned incessantly every time the Cubs make the post-season, which will hopefully be a fairly regular occurrence.
I was at the game on Saturday but also recorded the broadcast. Of course Smoltz couldn't help but mention it on a foul ball to that general area in the 9th. So annoying.
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Agreed. He easily could have cashed in on his infamy but he chose not to. He just wants to be left alone.
I know for a fact that he's been to Wrigley several times in the last 13 years. No one would recognize him unless he wore the hat, headphones, turtleneck and glasses. Even then, people likely wouldn't even believe it was him anyway. I truly hope that he'll be in attendance for at least one game this weekend. The guy is a HUGE Cubs fan. The best thing for him would not be to throw out the ceremonial first pitch, it would be for the press to stop mentioning him and let him be just another Cubs fan who's enjoying the hell out of this season.
I don't know how he could have "cashed in" with putting his personal safety in jeopardy. Didn't he have to move out of town, and if I heard correctly, legally change his name?
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Well hopefully Saturday night's win puts an end to the poor guy being mentioned incessantly every time the Cubs make the post-season, which will hopefully be a fairly regular occurrence.
I was at the game on Saturday but also recorded the broadcast. Of course Smoltz couldn't help but mention it on a foul ball to that general area in the 9th. So annoying.
The 9th inning of Game 6 included that harmless foul ball near Bartman territory as well as a tailor-made 6-4-3 double play that the Cubs were able to turn. It was like the baseball universe finally lined up properly for the Cubs ;)
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I don't know how he could have "cashed in" with putting his personal safety in jeopardy. Didn't he have to move out of town, and if I heard correctly, legally change his name?
He still lives in the Chicago area and has received significant offers (six figures in some cases) to write a book, do an interview, etc. None of those things would have threatened his personal safety.
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He still lives in the Chicago area and has received significant offers (six figures in some cases) to write a book, do an interview, etc. None of those things would have threatened his personal safety.
I am pretty sure that making public appearances are usually involved in promoting a book (unless you are Salman Rushdie). He could have done it and given the money to charity if safety wasn't an issue.
Why would you risk it, even if you didn't mind rehashing the most publicly humiliating moment of your life?
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I am pretty sure that making public appearances are usually involved in promoting a book (unless you are Salman Rushdie). He could have done it and given the money to charity if safety wasn't an issue.
Why would you risk it, even if you didn't mind rehashing the most publicly humiliating moment of your life?
Nothing about this situation was usual. I agree with your point, and hope we don't have to hear about this poor guy much longer. Just a guy doing what any fan would do if a foul ball was hit in his direction.
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The guy lives in Chicago and never changed his name. I think the risk to his physical safety has always been pretty minimal.
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99% of Cubs fans don't even blame Bartman. It's the national media that continues to go with the lazy narrative.
I'm guessing they no longer show Bill Buckner video packages during Red Sox playoff games. I look forward to the day when I never have to see Bartman, goats, Leon Durham, black cats, etc. again.
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99% of Cubs fans don't even blame Bartman. It's the national media that continues to go with the lazy narrative.
I'm guessing they no longer show Bill Buckner video packages during Red Sox playoff games. I look forward to the day when I never have to see Bartman, goats, Leon Durham, black cats, etc. again.
I'd still like to see Leon Durham...just in a positive light ;)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/35/52/5f/35525f40b91ef308cdec882941eadf38.jpg)
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Schwarber officially on roster. Rob Z off.
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Schwarber officially on roster. Rob Z off.
I like the move. In terms of lefties, I'd take my chances with a rusty Kyle Schwarber over Coghlan or LaStella as a PH. It also gives some flexibility because if Schwarber struggles, it'll be a "knee issue" and they can put him on the DL and add someone else.
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I like the move. In terms of lefties, I'd take my chances with a rusty Kyle Schwarber over Coghlan or LaStella as a PH. It also gives some flexibility because if Schwarber struggles, it'll be a "knee issue" and they can put him on the DL and add someone else.
What I figured in terms of the roster. It is risky but worth it for the potential upside and LH bat.
You can't take someone off the roster due to a "pre-exsiting condition". What I don't know is if it would still be considered a pre-existing condition if he was medically cleared. Probably but I'm not sure.
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What I figured in terms of the roster. It is risky but worth it for the potential upside and LH bat.
You can't take someone off the roster due to a "pre-exsiting condition". What I don't know is if it would still be considered a pre-existing condition if he was medically cleared. Probably but I'm not sure.
True, but they can say that his knee was re-injured and he can't play.
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Salazar also on the Indians roster. He was on his way to a Cy Young Award before he got injured. If he's anywhere close to that he could be a game changer. Doubtful, but who knows.
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Salazar also on the Indians roster. He was on his way to a Cy Young Award before he got injured. If he's anywhere close to that he could be a game changer. Doubtful, but who knows.
Salazar is a very good pitcher but he was nowhere near on his way to a Cy Young Award before he got injured.
He's another weapon but his command has never been great so we'll see if that and stamina are an issue.
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Salazar is a very good pitcher but he was nowhere near on his way to a Cy Young Award before he got injured.
He's another weapon but his command has never been great so we'll see if that and stamina are an issue.
Sorry should've been 1st half not up to his injury.
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Sorry should've been 1st half not up to his injury.
First half Salazar was must watch TV.
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forget it...
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I wonder how Schwarber will be. I mean, the guy hasn't seen big league pitching in a year, now he is in the WS. Interesting move. Gutsy move.
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I wonder how Schwarber will be. I mean, the guy hasn't seen big league pitching in a year, now he is in the WS. Interesting move. Gutsy move.
I'm not expecting much from him but worth the risk, IMO.
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I'm good with Schwarber. Taking off a pitcher with as many as 4 in an AL park makes sense. Be interesting to see if he DHs tonight or is just a PH.
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I'm good with Schwarber. Taking off a pitcher with as many as 4 in an AL park makes sense. Be interesting to see if he DHs tonight or is just a PH.
DH'ing and batting 5th. I'm good with him in the lineup but 5th seems awfully aggressive. Would have preferred 7th or so. Coghlan also in the lineup over Heyward. Prioritizing offense.
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DH'ing and batting 5th. I'm good with him in the lineup but 5th seems awfully aggressive. Would have preferred 7th or so. Coghlan also in the lineup over Heyward. Prioritizing offense.
At #5, Schwarber will have red-hot Javy Baez hitting behind him, which should lead to him seeing more good pitches.
Not sure about starting Coghlan. Heyward has definitely been struggling in the postseason but Coghlan is hitless in 5 ABs so he hasn't exactly set the world on fire, albeit with limited opportunities. That said, Maddon has seemingly pushed all the right buttons this season so I should probably be expecting a big game from Coughlan ;)
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Go Tribe!
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Go Tribe!
+1
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DH'ing and batting 5th. I'm good with him in the lineup but 5th seems awfully aggressive. Would have preferred 7th or so. Coghlan also in the lineup over Heyward. Prioritizing offense.
How is starting Coghlan over Heyward prioritizing offense?
Coghlan was probably the only non-pitcher who was a worse offensive player than Heyward this year.
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How is starting Coghlan over Heyward prioritizing offense?
Coghlan was probably the only non-pitcher who was a worse offensive player than Heyward this year.
He improved after the A's traded him back to the Cubs. He also got some very untimely injuries when he started to heat up. I like Coghlan a lot.
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DH'ing and batting 5th. I'm good with him in the lineup but 5th seems awfully aggressive. Would have preferred 7th or so. Coghlan also in the lineup over Heyward. Prioritizing offense.
Agreed completely. 5th is way too high for a guy that hasn't seen major league pitching since April. And don't like seeing Heyward out, his defense has been fantastic, no matter how broken the bat is.
EDIT: Damn near a home run there...Schwarber looks alright.
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Jonathan Who?
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Can't believe how crazy all the fans in Cleveland react whenever a ball is hit high/hard ::)
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Agreed completely. 5th is way too high for a guy that hasn't seen major league pitching since April. And don't like seeing Heyward out, his defense has been fantastic, no matter how broken the bat is.
EDIT: Damn near a home run there...Schwarber looks alright.
Will Carroll tweeted how he was rotating well and was surprised how small the brace was. I'm surprised he's in there, but if he comes up with a big hit early in the series, that could do a lot for momentum.
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Jonathan who?
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Prioritizing offense.
.So much for that
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All season long, while their team was dominating the AL Central, Cleveland fans stayed away. They showed up for the playoffs. At least Cubs fans showed up all year.
Having watched Cleveland a lot this year and watched them dominate the Tigers, I can say that last night was representative of how they have played all year. Their offense is death by a thousand cuts, running every chance they get, always taking the extra base, and just enough power. The Cleveland pitching staff, while currently depleted, still doesn't have a weak spot. In September, against Detroit, their starting pitcher got hurt in the first inning. The bullpen threw 10 innings of shutout ball.
On paper, Chicago is the better team. But every time I have thought Cleveland was finally going to fail, I have been proven wrong. I know it is only one game, but this is not a done deal for the Cubs. Last night was not a fluke for Cleveland.
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Agreed completely. 5th is way too high for a guy that hasn't seen major league pitching since April. And don't like seeing Heyward out, his defense has been fantastic, no matter how broken the bat is.
EDIT: Damn near a home run there...Schwarber looks alright.
Schwaber is the first player in the history of baseball to get his first hit of the season in the World Series.
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My wife and I were discussing that last night. I assumed there had to be an American League pitcher who had done it. So, you are saying that no American League pitcher in the DH era when no DH'ing of any kind was allowed in the World Series ever got a hit? May want to check that.
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My wife and I were discussing that last night. I assumed there had to be an American League pitcher who had done it. So, you are saying that no American League pitcher in the DH era when no DH'ing of any kind was allowed in the World Series ever got a hit? May want to check that.
He's actually the first position player to do so.
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All season long, while their team was dominating the AL Central, Cleveland fans stayed away. They showed up for the playoffs. At least Cubs fans showed up all year.
Having watched Cleveland a lot this year and watched them dominate the Tigers, I can say that last night was representative of how they have played all year. Their offense is death by a thousand cuts, running every chance they get, always taking the extra base, and just enough power. The Cleveland pitching staff, while currently depleted, still doesn't have a weak spot. In September, against Detroit, their starting pitcher got hurt in the first inning. The bullpen threw 10 innings of shutout ball.
On paper, Chicago is the better team. But every time I have thought Cleveland was finally going to fail, I have been proven wrong. I know it is only one game, but this is not a done deal for the Cubs. Last night was not a fluke for Cleveland.
Of course it's not a fluke - Kluber is awesome. And he got a little help with the zone. When your command is that good and you get a little extra room it is awfully tough. Perez hitting two HRs is a fluke, however.
If the Cubs can't beat Bauer and Tomlin they don't deserve to win.
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Jonathan who?
::)
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He's actually the first position player to do so.
Correct, I forgot that qualifier (position player) above.
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Of course it's not a fluke - Kluber is awesome. And he got a little help with the zone. When your command is that good and you get a little extra room it is awfully tough. Perez hitting two HRs is a fluke, however.
If the Cubs can't beat Bauer and Tomlin they don't deserve to win.
And that's why I think that game was ultimately much more important for the Indians to win.
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I'm going to take a minute to complain about the ump, not as a Cub whiner, but rather because it was validated when Miller came in. Larry Vanover was trash in my opinion. Different zones for lefties and righties, and his zone was HUGE. Lester was getting squeezed, yet Kluber was getting the left hand side of the player GENEROUSLY. The strike out looking against Bryant in the first inning was further outside than a number of pitches from Lester called balls.
But, when Miller came in, he was getting the same sort of trouble that Lester was. He battled through it cause he's filthy, but it was still garbage.
Thats why baseball is such a bizarre game. There was no anti-Cubs sentiment from Vanover behind the plate, rather just an inconsistent zone that favored righties over lefties and the Indians happened to have an ace on his best stuff who was right handed.
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And that's why I think that game was ultimately much more important for the Indians to win.
What concerns me is that Arrieta hasn't not been sharp lately at all. Including the postseason, he has a 5.21 ERA over his last 8 starts and that includes 7 shutout innings against STL. Bauer hasn't been great lately either so it could be a slugfest tonight. Therefore, I'm predicting...Cubs 2, Indians 1 ;)
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I'm going to take a minute to complain about the ump, not as a Cub whiner, but rather because it was validated when Miller came in. Larry Vanover was trash in my opinion. Different zones for lefties and righties, and his zone was HUGE. Lester was getting squeezed, yet Kluber was getting the left hand side of the player GENEROUSLY. The strike out looking against Bryant in the first inning was further outside than a number of pitches from Lester called balls.
But, when Miller came in, he was getting the same sort of trouble that Lester was. He battled through it cause he's filthy, but it was still garbage.
Thats why baseball is such a bizarre game. There was no anti-Cubs sentiment from Vanover behind the plate, rather just an inconsistent zone that favored righties over lefties and the Indians happened to have an ace on his best stuff who was right handed.
You are being a whiny Cub fan. Here is the data to prove it.
Andrew Miller
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=10&day=25&year=2016&game=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&pitchSel=453192&prevGame=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&prevDate=1025&league=mlb
Kluber
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=10&day=25&year=2016&game=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&pitchSel=446372&prevGame=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&prevDate=1025&league=mlb
Lester
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=10&day=25&year=2016&game=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&pitchSel=452657&prevGame=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&prevDate=1025&league=mlb
Looks like the ump was pretty solid, and the worst call of the night went Lester's way. I would be willing to bet that pitch which was a foot and a half off the plate was strike 3 on Brandon Guyer.
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And that's why I think that game was ultimately much more important for the Indians to win.
Agreed. I guess there is some pretty striking data over the past 10-15 years about how important it is to win game 1. Tonight's game is huge but I'm still optimistic about winning the series.
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You are being a whiny Cub fan. Here is the data to prove it.
Andrew Miller
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=10&day=25&year=2016&game=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&pitchSel=453192&prevGame=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&prevDate=1025&league=mlb
Kluber
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=10&day=25&year=2016&game=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&pitchSel=446372&prevGame=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&prevDate=1025&league=mlb
Lester
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=10&day=25&year=2016&game=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&pitchSel=452657&prevGame=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&prevDate=1025&league=mlb
Looks like the ump was pretty solid, and the worst call of the night went Lester's way. I would be willing to bet that pitch which was a foot and a half off the plate was strike 3 on Brandon Guyer.
The ump didn't cost the Cubs game. However, he missed some key pitches in the 1st inning. Bryant should have been on 1st base. And the pitch when Lindor stole second was right down the middle but called a ball. That batter eventually walked.
That being said, I'm all for robo-umps on balls and strikes. I've seen enough horrendous zones this year to take the human element out of it. One or two missed calls can make a huge difference.
White Sox suck.
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The ump didn't cost the Cubs game. However, he missed some key pitches in the 1st inning. Bryant should have been on 1st base. And the pitch when Lindor stole second was right down the middle but called a ball. That batter eventually walked.
That being said, I'm all for robo-umps on balls and strikes. I've seen enough horrendous zones this year to take the human element out of it. One or two missed calls can make a huge difference.
White Sox suck.
Surprisingly enough, I am not the one who compiled that data. So there is no bias from me in there.
You have now brought up the Sox twice in the last day. That is interesting. I thought cub fans didn't care about the Sox.
Cub fans suck.
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I don't understand any argument against a robo strike zone.
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I don't understand any argument against a robo strike zone.
How about the fact that there is a union involved. And that the players union has always supported the umpires union.
Not necessarily a good arguement, but...
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How about the fact that there is a union involved. And that the players union has always supported the umpires union.
Not necessarily a good arguement, but...
Which umpire's union?
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Which umpire's union?
The WUA.
How about the fact that there is a union involved. And that the players union has always supported the umpires union.
Not necessarily a good arguement, but...
Fine, there's an argument, but a bad one. There still needs to be a HP umpire, so they're not losing a job.
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I don't understand any argument against a robo strike zone.
Is there still an umpire behind homeplate who's relaying the robo ump's calls? How does he get this info? How is the strike zone set? Is the robo ump re-programmed between batters? Do you use the same strike zone for Jose Altuve that you'd use for Aaron Judge?
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Is there still an umpire behind homeplate who's relaying the robo ump's calls? How does he get this info? How is the strike zone set? Is the robo ump re-programmed between batters? Do you use the same strike zone for Jose Altuve that you'd use for Aaron Judge?
Other than the Altuve question, the rest of logistics. As for Altuve, yes. The strike zone would exist in the same manner as it does now, but without any human variability.
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Other than the Altuve question, the rest of logistics. As for Altuve, yes. The strike zone would exist in the same manner as it does now, but without any human variability.
Who sets the strike zone for each batter? There's still going to be some human variability.
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You are being a whiny Cub fan. Here is the data to prove it.
Andrew Miller
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=10&day=25&year=2016&game=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&pitchSel=453192&prevGame=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&prevDate=1025&league=mlb
Kluber
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=10&day=25&year=2016&game=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&pitchSel=446372&prevGame=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&prevDate=1025&league=mlb
Lester
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=10&day=25&year=2016&game=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&pitchSel=452657&prevGame=gid_2016_10_25_chnmlb_clemlb_1%2F&prevDate=1025&league=mlb
Looks like the ump was pretty solid, and the worst call of the night went Lester's way. I would be willing to bet that pitch which was a foot and a half off the plate was strike 3 on Brandon Guyer.
I never said it cost the Cubs the game and even stated it affected the Indians as well. Those charts are agnostic of time and situation as well, which is even more interesting than pure pitch tracking. But sure, a fan of the losing team can never speak to anything that happened in the game without being a "whiner". GTFO
Ive also never seen one of those pitch charts where people go "the ump messed up".
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I never said it cost the Cubs the game and even stated it affected the Indians as well. Those charts are agnostic of time and situation as well, which is even more interesting than pure pitch tracking. But sure, a fan of the losing team can never speak to anything that happened in the game without being a "whiner". GTFO
Ive also never seen one of those pitch charts where people go "the ump messed up".
I never implied you said that. You said you weren't whining about the strike zone. I was curious so I looked it up. Those charts seem to say that the ump was pretty good and pretty consistent all night.
It actually looks like Miller got zero called strikes out of the strike zone. And had a couple that should have been strikes go the other way.
It appears the Kluber got 1. And 1 that could have easily gone either way (probably the pitch to Bryant in the 1st). He seems to only have lost 1 strike.
Lester got 6 strikes that were clearly out of the zone. He also lost 4 strikes that were called balls.
The pitch data is what it is. That is where the pitches were and how they were called. It isn't saying anymore than that. The ump was a little more erratic on Lester (though he was consistent, the lost strikes were all at the top of the zone and the added strikes were all at the bottom) for whatever reason.
The only reason to say the umpire was "trash" in that game is because you are whining. His strike zone was not "huge" it was actually pretty accurate. So it couldn't have been that different. Kluber didn't get either side "generously". He got 1 pitch that was off the plate called a strike. It was to the RH batters box side.
So you didn't just speak of something that happened in the game. You seemed to state the the strike zone was bad and the ump was worse and that Kluber was given an advantage. All of those things are just statistically, factually incorrect. So please let me know, when does it become whining?
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Should we be discussing Maddon's decision to leave Schwarber - career .143/.213/.268 vs lefties - in to hit against Miller with two on and two out in the 8th?
Maddon is a great manager and has more often than not pushed the right buttons, but that there was a questionable move.
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Should we be discussing Maddon's decision to leave Schwarber - career .143/.213/.268 vs lefties - in to hit against Miller with two on and two out in the 8th?
Maddon is a great manager and has more often than not pushed the right buttons, but that there was a questionable move.
I was a bit surprised that he didn't pinch hit for Schwarber against Miller in the 7th, but Schwarber had a good at bat and drew a walk. Maddon must have liked what he saw in that AB.
Who would you rather have up in the 8th: Schwarber or Soler? Contreras and Almora were already in the game by that point.
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Surprisingly enough, I am not the one who compiled that data. So there is no bias from me in there.
You have now brought up the Sox twice in the last day. That is interesting. I thought cub fans didn't care about the Sox.
Cub fans suck.
I was poking fun at you because of how over sensitive you are.
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Haha. Ok.
This you bro?
https://thekicker.com/guy-in-suspiciously-new-cubs-hat-ive-waited-a-long-time-for-this/
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I was a bit surprised that he didn't pinch hit for Schwarber against Miller in the 7th, but Schwarber had a good at bat and drew a walk. Maddon must have liked what he saw in that AB.
Who would you rather have up in the 8th: Schwarber or Soler? Contreras and Almora were already in the game by that point.
The numbers say go with Soler (.267/.345/.467 vs LHP), but, yeah, it's not necessarily an obvious choice.
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What concerns me is that Arrieta hasn't not been sharp lately at all. Including the postseason, he has a 5.21 ERA over his last 8 starts and that includes 7 shutout innings against STL. Bauer hasn't been great lately either so it could be a slugfest tonight. Therefore, I'm predicting...Cubs 2, Indians 1 ;)
He has not been the same since the 'roids rumours this summer and he went off the juice.
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He has not been the same since the 'roids rumours this summer and he went off the juice.
Bingo
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Eh, doubt it. He must have been tested sometime during his ridiculous second half. Hitters adjust, it's more control issues than looking tired also.
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He has not been the same since the 'roids rumours this summer and he went off the juice.
Or if you really want to know he's been overthrowing his body. He has been tested enough.
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Eh, doubt it. He must have been tested sometime during his ridiculous second half. Hitters adjust, it's more control issues than looking tired also.
Or if you really want to know he's been overthrowing his body. He has been tested enough.
You guys do know unless you're an idiot like Braun was it's pretty easy to pass a PED drug test while still using PEDs right?
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You guys do know unless you're an idiot like Braun was it's pretty easy to pass a PED drug test while still using PEDs right?
It reminds me of the Frank Thomas PED talks though. Just because someone is a freak athlete doesnt mean their juicing. All roids do for a pitcher is help them recover faster. It doesnt look like he is tired, he just has zero control on his pitches.
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It reminds me of the Frank Thomas PED talks though. Just because someone is a freak athlete doesnt mean their juicing. All roids do for a pitcher is help them recover faster. It doesnt look like he is tired, he just has zero control on his pitches.
Control is the first thing to go when tired or fatigued.
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It reminds me of the Frank Thomas PED talks though. Just because someone is a freak athlete doesnt mean their juicing. All roids do for a pitcher is help them recover faster. It doesnt look like he is tired, he just has zero control on his pitches.
I am am always doubtful when it comes to baseball players. When the MLB bans one substance, the next one takes its place and they're always finding ways to beat the system. Greenies to steroids to HGH to all the PEDs used now. I would be more surprised by all star baseball players who do it "naturally" than by those who use some kind of substance that is or should be banned. Heck Dee friggin Gordon got suspended for PED use. The guy is like 5'10" 150 lbs. and has 9 career home runs. Baseball players who DON'T use some sort of PED along the way have suuuuuch an up hill battle because all of their competition does.
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I dont disagree with that. Dont think its nearly as bad as it was in the 90s, but I also think juicing is more prevalant in mediocre to poor players rather than studs.
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So is he juicing again or no?
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So is he juicing again or no?
He was obviously juicing intermittently throughout tonight's game. You can tell because control. Or maybe fatigue. Maybe both.
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He was obviously juicing intermittently throughout tonight's game. You can tell because control. Or maybe fatigue. Maybe both.
Hahah. He's gotta use that time between innings somehow.
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Hahah. He's gotta use that time between innings somehow.
+1
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Much respect to Schwarber, kid busted his butt off to get back, not many can rake like him, happy for him, very genuine.
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Much respect to Schwarber, kid busted his butt off to get back, not many can rake like him, happy for him, very genuine.
Amazing performance tonight. Justified his inclusion. Incredible to get his timing back that quick.
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So is he juicing again or no?
No.
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Haha. Ok.
This you bro?
https://thekicker.com/guy-in-suspiciously-new-cubs-hat-ive-waited-a-long-time-for-this/
Was that one intended for me?
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Bingo
I often wonder how complete idiots don't realize they are complete idiots. You're doing a great job of answering that question.
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I often wonder how complete idiots don't realize they are complete idiots. You're doing a great job of answering that question.
Yeah you typically see pitchers increase their average pitch speed by 2 mph and go from complete garbage to best pitcher in baseball at 26 years old naturally.
By the way, what is the conclusion that I led you to to the question you were pondering?
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Yeah you typically see pitchers increase their average pitch speed by 2 mph and go from complete garbage to best pitcher in baseball at 26 years old naturally.
By the way, what is the conclusion that I led you to to the question you were pondering?
Nothing you wrote there is accurate. Accusing Arrieta of juicing is pure idiocy and nothing more.
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Nothing you wrote there is accurate. Accusing Arrieta of juicing is pure idiocy and nothing more.
You're right. I was wrong. He went from garbage to the best pitcher in baseball at the age of 28. Nothing abnormal about that at all. Totally common that athletes in any sport don't develop one bit in their early to mid 20s but then hit those late 20s and not only get solid, but get historically good. That's usually when pitchers start throwing harder than they ever did before too.
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You're right. I was wrong. He went from garbage to the best pitcher in baseball at the age of 28. Nothing abnormal about that at all. Totally common that athletes in any sport don't develop one bit in their early to mid 20s but then hit those late 20s and not only get solid, but get historically good. That's usually when pitchers start throwing harder than they ever did before too.
I'd suggest you do a bit more research.
Moron.
You sound like Stephen A. Smith.
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I'd suggest you do a bit more research.
Moron.
You sound like Stephen A. Smith.
Lol. Please do tell! I can't wait to hear. Staring at his pitch velocity now. Oddly enough it was down until 3 seasons ago, way up the past 2 seasons, and back down this season. And his numbers aren't even debateable. So I'd love to know what's wrong. Very intrigued.
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Lol. Please do tell! I can't wait to hear. Staring at his pitch velocity now. Oddly enough it was down until 3 seasons ago, way up the past 2 seasons, and back down this season. And his numbers aren't even debateable. So I'd love to know what's wrong. Very intrigued.
Eh, I think you're grasping at straws here. I don't think his velocity chart is enough to definitively conclude PED's. Also the fact that he has never failed a test might be relevant too.
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Eh, I think you're grasping at straws here. I don't think his velocity chart is enough to definitively conclude PED's. Also the fact that he has never failed a test might be relevant too.
Again, unless you're an idiot like Braun it's harder to get caught while using PEDs than it is to take them but still beat the system. Not failing a drug test in baseball proves absolutely nothing.
Like I said, it's completely common for athletes in all sports to be bad (relative to their competition) at that sport through their early and mid 20s and then all of a sudden develop into a historically good player at whatever sport it is when they're 28 years old. Late 20s are definitely when you see the biggest improvement in athletes performances.
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Not taking a position on Arrieta either way, but plenty of guys have tested negative for PEDs. Until they didn't.
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Not taking a position on Arrieta either way, but plenty of guys have tested negative for PEDs. Until they didn't.
Right. If people here really believe that only 8 MLB players have used PEDs this year then I have a bridge to sell a lot of people here.
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Again, unless you're an idiot like Braun it's harder to get caught while using PEDs than it is to take them but still beat the system. Not failing a drug test in baseball proves absolutely nothing.
Like I said, it's completely common for athletes in all sports to be bad (relative to their competition) at that sport through their early and mid 20s and then all of a sudden develop into a historically good player at whatever sport it is when they're 28 years old. Late 20s are definitely when you see the biggest improvement in athletes performances.
Arrieta was a top 70 prospect coming up in the Orioles' system. He wasn't just some guy who came out of no where. He always had great stuff but struggled with command. He also had 3 different pitching coaches in his first 2 big league seasons. In 2013, he had a 7.23 ERA with Baltimore before finishing the season with a 3.66 ERA for the Cubs. Did he start juicing as soon as he was traded?
Jason Hammel has a 3.59 career ERA as a Cub and a 4.77 ERA for 3 other teams. Does he only juice when he's a Cub?
Scott Feldman had a 3.46 ERA as a Cub and has a 4.47 ERA with other teams. Did he only juice for his 15 starts with the Cubs?
Trevor Cahill, Travis Wood, Pedro Strop - all of those pitchers were better as Cubs than they were with their previous teams. Is Theo making sure everyone is juiced or do you think that Chris Bosio might have something to do with it?
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Didn't Arietta also completely change his release points when he came to Chicago? I have no idea if he is using PEDs or not, but he did significantly change his mechanics from what I recall under Bosio.
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Arrieta was a top 70 prospect coming up in the Orioles' system. He wasn't just some guy who came out of no where. He always had great stuff but struggled with command. He also had 3 different pitching coaches in his first 2 big league seasons. In 2013, he had a 7.23 ERA with Baltimore before finishing the season with a 3.66 ERA for the Cubs. Did he start juicing as soon as he was traded?
Jason Hammel has a 3.59 career ERA as a Cub and a 4.77 ERA for 3 other teams. Does he only juice when he's a Cub?
Scott Feldman had a 3.46 ERA as a Cub and has a 4.47 ERA with other teams. Did he only juice for his 15 starts with the Cubs?
Trevor Cahill, Travis Wood, Pedro Strop - all of those pitchers were better as Cubs than they were with their previous teams. Is Theo making sure everyone is juiced or do you think that Chris Bosio might have something to do with it?
I don't recall any of those players going from a garbage pitcher to a historically good pitcher in 1 offseason's time. But I could be wrong there. There's a big difference dropping your ERA by 1 run to dropping your ERA by 4.5 runs at 28 years old. Did those guys go 2 seasons of historical pitching, then vehemently deny any PED use, and then magically his average pitch speeds go back to what they were before he magically became the best pitcher in baseball at 28 years old? If so, we can compare the situations. I'm fairly confident in saying that wasn't the case though.
I just think it's funny that Chicago sports fans get all hot and bothered when someone even considers the possibility that a 28 year old started throwing the ball harder and went from a guy with a career ERA of over 5 to someone who had a couple of the best seasons in the history of baseball in one offseason probably used PEDs, but then cry and scream at every chance that "Oh my gosh an NFL linebacker took HGH! Clay Matthews is such a doper!" There's no doubt in my mind that Clay Matthews took PEDs. BUT if either of Jake Arrieta's rise or Clay Matthews's rise makes sense as "natural" it's without a doubt Clay Matthews. NFL bloodline, developed at 18-20 years old (you know, when athletes actually do develop physically), has been a fairly dominant, but not the greatest football player on the planet. Meanwhile Arrieta is just as jacked up as the OLB that Clay Matthews is and completely stunk until he hit the age of 28 years old, where not only do his statistics suddenly become historically good, but his pitch speeds increase across the board.
Again, no doubt Clay Matthews did PEDs somewhere along the line. But if there's one athlete whose development matches that of someone who did it "naturally" it is certainly not Jake Arrieta. The guy PED'd his ass off. And good for him, it's paid off and he's going to be an even richer man for it. Again, those who don't have an insanely uphill battle in baseball.
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Like I said, it's completely common for athletes in all sports to be bad (relative to their competition) at that sport through their early and mid 20s and then all of a sudden develop into a historically good player at whatever sport it is when they're 28 years old. Late 20s are definitely when you see the biggest improvement in athletes performances.
No one is saying it's completely common, but it's hardly unprecedented.
.
- Dave Stewart had a 30-35 record when he was traded to the Oakland A's at age 29. In the next 5 seasons, he posted a 93-40 record while winning 20 games in 4 straight years.
- Randy Johnson had a 56-61 record after 7 seasons in the bigs. At age 29, he erupted as a dominant pitcher, going 19-8 that season enroute to 303 career wins.
- Dazzy Vance had an 0-4 career record when he signed with Brooklyn at age 31 way back in 1922. He went on to record 197 wins, including going 28-6 with a 2.16 ERA and 262 strikeouts in 1924 to win the pitching Triple Crown.
- Jamie Moyer was 59-76 at age 32 when suddenly he found his stuff, and from ages 33-40 went 126-56.
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Joe Nathan, Curt Davis, Hoyt Wilhelm, R.A. Dickey, Sandy Koufax, baseball has plenty of pitchers who didn't blossom until they were in their mid-20s or even into their 30s. It's easy to say steroids, but many of these guys became great pitchers after a change in scenery, similar to what Arrieta went through.
I'm not saying it's definitively not steroids. I don't think it is, but I don't truly know. But even if he keeps this up for the next 10 years, it wouldn't be unprecedented (Johnson pitched at an elite level into his 40s) and it wouldn't be definitively indicative of anything other than him being a great pitcher.
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No one is saying it's completely common, but it's hardly unprecedented.
.
- Dave Stewart had a 30-35 record when he was traded to the Oakland A's at age 29. In the next 5 seasons, he posted a 93-40 record while winning 20 games in 4 straight years.
- Randy Johnson had a 56-61 record after 7 seasons in the bigs. At age 29, he erupted as a dominant pitcher, going 19-8 that season enroute to 303 career wins.
- Dazzy Vance had an 0-4 career record when he signed with Brooklyn at age 31 way back in 1922. He went on to record 197 wins, including going 28-6 with a 2.16 ERA and 262 strikeouts in 1924 to win the pitching Triple Crown.
- Jamie Moyer was 59-76 at age 32 when suddenly he found his stuff, and from ages 33-40 went 126-56.
.
Joe Nathan, Curt Davis, Hoyt Wilhelm, R.A. Dickey, Sandy Koufax, baseball has plenty of pitchers who didn't blossom until they were in their mid-20s or even into their 30s. It's easy to say steroids, but many of these guys became great pitchers after a change in scenery, similar to what Arrieta went through.
I'm not saying it's definitively not steroids. I don't think it is, but I don't truly know. But even if he keeps this up for the next 10 years, it wouldn't be unprecedented (Johnson pitched at an elite level into his 40s) and it wouldn't be definitively indicative of anything other than him being a great pitcher.
Not sure I can really speak of Davvy Vance in the 1920s or Dave Stewart in the 1970s, but Randy Johnson admits himself that he doesn't even know what he took. Randy endorsed Champion Nutrition, who is linked to Big Mac/androstenedione.
"I took a lot of different things that, you know, maybe at that time, maybe early enough if I would've been tested, who knows? I could have been taking stuff had they tested me back then. Maybe I would have tested (positive for a banned supplement). I don't know."
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Not sure I can really speak of Davvy Vance in the 1920s or Dave Stewart in the 1970s, but Randy Johnson admits himself that he doesn't even know what he took. Randy endorsed Champion Nutrition, who is linked to Big Mac/androstenedione.
"I took a lot of different things that, you know, maybe at that time, maybe early enough if I would've been tested, who knows? I could have been taking stuff had they tested me back then. Maybe I would have tested (positive for a banned supplement). I don't know."
Which proves my point that you can't definitively say "look at the stats, he must be juicing." Maybe Johnson used illegal substances, maybe he didn't. Who knows, maybe Vance had a secret super chemist back in the 1920s. But guys improving vastly isn't a new thing. Arrieta isn't the first and certainly won't be the last.
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Didn't Arietta also completely change his release points when he came to Chicago? I have no idea if he is using PEDs or not, but he did significantly change his mechanics from what I recall under Bosio.
Correct. He also added a slider/cutter and began using his sinker more.
Jonah Keri wrote a very good breakdown about it last year.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-jake-arrieta-dominance-chicago-cubs/ (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-jake-arrieta-dominance-chicago-cubs/)
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Right. If people here really believe that only 8 MLB players have used PEDs this year then I have a bridge to sell a lot of people here.
I'm not saying I believe this. I disagree with your definitive assertion that he used PED's because you've analyzed a velocity chart.
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I was one in the court of not putting Schwarber on the playoff roster. I've never been so happy to be wrong.
That said, I don't know about playing him in LF. Leverage a good situation to get him in with runners on base and let him pinch, but memories of him in left against NY in the NLCS are still a little fresh and that's when he was healthy.
Weather reports saying that there could be a 20 mph wind blowing out on Friday night at Wrigley. Certainly better than blowing in against a team that can manufacture a run better than you. In Hendricks we believe.
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I was one in the court of not putting Schwarber on the playoff roster. I've never been so happy to be wrong.
That said, I don't know about playing him in LF. Leverage a good situation to get him in with runners on base and let him pinch, but memories of him in left against NY in the NLCS are still a little fresh and that's when he was healthy.
Weather reports saying that there could be a 20 mph wind blowing out on Friday night at Wrigley. Certainly better than blowing in against a team that can manufacture a run better than you. In Hendricks we believe.
I was completely on the fence on Schwarber and would have leaned toward leaving him off. Also glad to be wrong. From what I heard last night, he's not cleared to play in the field yet. They'd have to get him approved by a doctor for that. Really hope they just leave him as a pinch hitter at home, though his bat is certainly hot. I'd like to see Heyward back in there, I know his bat is ice cold, but his defense is fantastic.
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I'd like to see Heyward back in there, I know his bat is ice cold, but his defense is fantastic.
I'm not against Heyward playing. Worst case, play Almora until you get a lead.
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Not sure I can really speak of Davvy Vance in the 1920s or Dave Stewart in the 1970s, but Randy Johnson admits himself that he doesn't even know what he took. Randy endorsed Champion Nutrition, who is linked to Big Mac/androstenedione.
"I took a lot of different things that, you know, maybe at that time, maybe early enough if I would've been tested, who knows? I could have been taking stuff had they tested me back then. Maybe I would have tested (positive for a banned supplement). I don't know."
Dude, effing relax. It's not PEDs, STFU.
He grew a beard after Baltimore, that did it.
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No one is saying it's completely common, but it's hardly unprecedented.
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- Dave Stewart had a 30-35 record when he was traded to the Oakland A's at age 29. In the next 5 seasons, he posted a 93-40 record while winning 20 games in 4 straight years.
- Randy Johnson had a 56-61 record after 7 seasons in the bigs. At age 29, he erupted as a dominant pitcher, going 19-8 that season enroute to 303 career wins.
- Dazzy Vance had an 0-4 career record when he signed with Brooklyn at age 31 way back in 1922. He went on to record 197 wins, including going 28-6 with a 2.16 ERA and 262 strikeouts in 1924 to win the pitching Triple Crown.
- Jamie Moyer was 59-76 at age 32 when suddenly he found his stuff, and from ages 33-40 went 126-56.
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Joe Nathan, Curt Davis, Hoyt Wilhelm, R.A. Dickey, Sandy Koufax, baseball has plenty of pitchers who didn't blossom until they were in their mid-20s or even into their 30s. It's easy to say steroids, but many of these guys became great pitchers after a change in scenery, similar to what Arrieta went through.
I'm not saying it's definitively not steroids. I don't think it is, but I don't truly know. But even if he keeps this up for the next 10 years, it wouldn't be unprecedented (Johnson pitched at an elite level into his 40s) and it wouldn't be definitively indicative of anything other than him being a great pitcher.
David Stewart isn't a great example because he was primarily used out of the bullpen for most of his early career. The guy had almost 300 appearances though age 29, only about 60 were starts. He became a full-time starter when it got to Oakland. He had his best ERA years early on in his career though.
Jamie Moyer is a very good example though. He was always a starter and his ERA actually dropped as he got into his 30s. Finished high up on some Cy Young ballots too.
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Last year, there was an article in SI about JA and how/why he was throwing so much better as a Cub. The crux of it was that (A) in Baltimore they wanted him to throw more traditionally. They were worried about him hurting his arm throwing across his body. In Chicago, they allowed him to throw in the way that was more natural for him. (B) He got into a workout regime that seriously strengthened his core and improved his flexibility.
Better conditioning and a return to his natural motion equals a drastic leap.
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Correct. He also added a slider/cutter and began using his sinker more.
Jonah Keri wrote a very good breakdown about it last year.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-jake-arrieta-dominance-chicago-cubs/ (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-jake-arrieta-dominance-chicago-cubs/)
Maybe Wades should actually read that. It would help if he knew anything about Arrieta and his evolution throughout his career. All he's doing is looking at surface numbers and making unfounded, insulting accusations. It really is exactly what Stephen A. Smith did and Stephen A. Smith is an idiot.
Arrieta was always very highly regarded as a prospect. The Orioles completely changed his mechanics. The Cubs let him be himself. There have been a number of articles written on the topic.
Furthermore, as wades incorrectly stated numerous times, this did not happen overnight. Arrieta started seeing positive results as soon as the Cubs brought him up in 2013 (3.66 ERA and 1.12 WHIP in 9 starts).
He was quietly excellent in 2014 (2.53 ERA and .99 WHIP in 25 starts). And then the historic 2nd half last season, which I guess somehow means the guy is clearly on PEDs.
This is in no way the story of an awful pitcher who suddenly became historically great within one year. This isn't the story of pitcher who's velocity suddenly increased by 5 MPH over the course of an offseason. It's the story of a guy with a boatload of talent who worked his ass off and found the right team and pitching coach to excel.
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I was completely on the fence on Schwarber and would have leaned toward leaving him off. Also glad to be wrong. From what I heard last night, he's not cleared to play in the field yet. They'd have to get him approved by a doctor for that. Really hope they just leave him as a pinch hitter at home, though his bat is certainly hot. I'd like to see Heyward back in there, I know his bat is ice cold, but his defense is fantastic.
Schwarber's defense was questionable to begin with but to throw him out their in the cold weather on a bad knee in a potentially damp conditions? Not a chance. Like others have said, pick your spot to use Schwarber. The Cubs have plenty of capable, interchangeable defenders on the roster who could come into the game after his AB. Maddon would likely only PH Schwarber for Russell or whoever starts in RF.
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Schwarber's defense was questionable to begin with but to throw him out their in the cold weather on a bad knee in a potentially damp conditions? Not a chance. Like others have said, pick your spot to use Schwarber. The Cubs have plenty of capable, interchangeable defenders on the roster who could come into the game after his AB. Maddon would likely only PH Schwarber for Russell or whoever starts in RF.
I doubt we see him out there but it is supposed to be pretty warm tomorrow.
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Lol. Please do tell! I can't wait to hear. Staring at his pitch velocity now. Oddly enough it was down until 3 seasons ago, way up the past 2 seasons, and back down this season. And his numbers aren't even debateable. So I'd love to know what's wrong. Very intrigued.
Maybe actually do some research about his entire story if you're going to make that kind of accusation.
And any velocity increase wasn't drastic. The guy has always thrown hard. It's pretty normal for pitchers to have velocity fluctuations during their careers due to health, mechanics, age, etc.
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Last year, there was an article in SI about JA and how/why he was throwing so much better as a Cub. The crux of it was that (A) in Baltimore they wanted him to throw more traditionally. They were worried about him hurting his arm throwing across his body. In Chicago, they allowed him to throw in the way that was more natural for him. (B) He got into a workout regime that seriously strengthened his core and improved his flexibility.
Better conditioning and a return to his natural motion equals a drastic leap.
Yep.
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I'm a Cardinals fan and have no reason to defend Arrieta, but it is lazy and irresponsible to hint that his performance last year was due to PEDs. Par for the course for Wades though.
If you have done the smallest bit of research on him and his time in Baltimore and with the Cubs there are plenty of legitimate reasons for his improvement.
And by the way, he pitched a gem last night.
Also mad props to Schwarber. To be able to perform like that on literally a spring training condensed into 3 days at the Arizona Fall League is nothing short of remarkable.
#notacubsfan
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Furthermore, as wades incorrectly stated numerous times, this did not happen overnight. Arrieta started seeing positive results as soon as the Cubs brought him up in 2013 (3.66 ERA and 1.12 WHIP in 9 starts).
He was quietly excellent in 2014 (2.53 ERA and .99 WHIP in 25 starts). And then the historic 2nd half last season, which I guess somehow means the guy is clearly on PEDs.
Often overlooked is that Arrieta wasn't even an All-Star in 2015. On June 16 he had a respectable but unspectacular 3.40 ERA. From May 25 thru the end of the 2016 regular season his ERA was 3.95. He had a historic second half of 2015. He isn't a Cy Young candidate in 2016.
Honestly, I think that Theo and FO have their doubt about whether he's going to be able to keep it up long-term, which is why they have been a bit hesitant about a contract extension. He's still under team control thru 2017 but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's wearing a different uni when 2018 begins.
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Last year, there was an article in SI about JA and how/why he was throwing so much better as a Cub. The crux of it was that (A) in Baltimore they wanted him to throw more traditionally. They were worried about him hurting his arm throwing across his body. In Chicago, they allowed him to throw in the way that was more natural for him. (B) He got into a workout regime that seriously strengthened his core and improved his flexibility.
Better conditioning and a return to his natural motion equals a drastic leap.
I would then be interested to know what they would say led to the drop in velocity and the drop in production this year. He certainly was still very good this year, but nowhere near as dominant as he was the last 2 seasons.
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Maybe Wades should actually read that. It would help if he knew anything about Arrieta and his evolution throughout his career. All he's doing is looking at surface numbers and making unfounded, insulting accusations. It really is exactly what Stephen A. Smith did and Stephen A. Smith is an idiot.
Arrieta was always very highly regarded as a prospect. The Orioles completely changed his mechanics. The Cubs let him be himself. There have been a number of articles written on the topic.
Furthermore, as wades incorrectly stated numerous times, this did not happen overnight. Arrieta started seeing positive results as soon as the Cubs brought him up in 2013 (3.66 ERA and 1.12 WHIP in 9 starts).
He was quietly excellent in 2014 (2.53 ERA and .99 WHIP in 25 starts). And then the historic 2nd half last season, which I guess somehow means the guy is clearly on PEDs.
This is in no way the story of an awful pitcher who suddenly became historically great within one year. This isn't the story of pitcher who's velocity suddenly increased by 5 MPH over the course of an offseason. It's the story of a guy with a boatload of talent who worked his ass off and found the right team and pitching coach to excel.
It is exactly a story of a bad pitcher becoming historically great overnight. To a tee, really. He was very bad, and the next season he was the best pitcher in baseball. There's really no arguing that lol. The reason? Sure, argue all you'd like. Just like Sammy Sosa just had a bat to put on BP shows for the crowds showing up before the game that he accidentally grabbed instead of his normal game bat and just like he suddenly forgot how to speak English when pressed about steroid use, it's all natural baby. Just looks like it isn't.
But to deny that Arrieta went from bad to the best pitcher in baseball in an offseason? Well, okay I guess.
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Maybe actually do some research about his entire story if you're going to make that kind of accusation.
And any velocity increase wasn't drastic. The guy has always thrown hard. It's pretty normal for pitchers to have velocity fluctuations during their careers due to health, mechanics, age, etc.
Yes. Velocity fluctuation. Meaning it goes up and down but overall hovers around the same number. Not a consistent velocity up until you're 28 and then a sudden increase of 2-4 (depending on pitch type) MPH, and now suddenly back down to where you were 3 years ago.
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Yes. Velocity fluctuation. Meaning it goes up and down but overall hovers around the same number. Not a consistent velocity up until you're 28 and then a sudden increase of 2-4 (depending on pitch type) MPH, and now suddenly back down to where you were 3 years ago.
What's your source for these numbers?
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I'm a Cardinals fan and have no reason to defend Arrieta, but it is lazy and irresponsible to hint that his performance last year was due to PEDs. Par for the course for Wades though.
If you have done the smallest bit of research on him and his time in Baltimore and with the Cubs there are plenty of legitimate reasons for his improvement.
And by the way, he pitched a gem last night.
Also mad props to Schwarber. To be able to perform like that on literally a spring training condensed into 3 days at the Arizona Fall League is nothing short of remarkable.
#notacubsfan
I've heard all the reasons for it. Those are all great. If the pitching coach turns water in to wine maybe I should go pitch for the Cubs.
What does "par for the course for wades" mean? I'm curious.
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What's your source for these numbers?
Fangraphs.com
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I would then be interested to know what they would say led to the drop in velocity and the drop in production this year. He certainly was still very good this year, but nowhere near as dominant as he was the last 2 seasons.
I think going from 75 to 156 to 229 innings pitched in consecutive years could definitely contribute to a drop in velocity. And his production was of course going to drop off from last year, but I think this is largely due to a 3.47BB/9 (vs 1.89 in 2015) and this is mostly due to his inability to locate his slider this season.
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Fangraphs.com
Where are you seeing the 2-4mph increase on Fangraphs?
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It is exactly a story of a bad pitcher becoming historically great overnight. To a tee, really. He was very bad, and the next season he was the best pitcher in baseball. There's really no arguing that lol. The reason? Sure, argue all you'd like. Just like Sammy Sosa just had a bat to put on BP shows for the crowds showing up before the game that he accidentally grabbed instead of his normal game bat and just like he suddenly forgot how to speak English when pressed about steroid use, it's all natural baby. Just looks like it isn't.
But to deny that Arrieta went from bad to the best pitcher in baseball in an offseason? Well, okay I guess.
He was inconsistent with the Orioles when he came up.
2013: He had a 3.66 ERA with the Cubs in 9 GS. He was 3.03 over his final 5 starts that season.
2014: He had a 2.53 ERA in 25 starts
April 8 - June 16, 2015: 13 GS, 3.40 ERA
June 21 - Oct 2, 2015: 20 GS, 0.86 ERA
April 4 - June 22, 2016: 15 GS, 1.74 ERA
June 27 - Sept 28: 16 GS, 4.44 ERA
Basically he had a run of about 35 starts where he was dominant. In his other 63 starts with the Cubs, he's been a solid #2 or 3 type guy.
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He was inconsistent with the Orioles when he came up.
2013: He had a 3.66 ERA with the Cubs in 9 GS. He was 3.03 over his final 5 starts that season.
2014: He had a 2.53 ERA in 25 starts
April 8 - June 16, 2015: 13 GS, 3.40 ERA
June 21 - Oct 2, 2015: 20 GS, 0.86 ERA
April 4 - June 22, 2016: 15 GS, 1.74 ERA
June 27 - Sept 28: 16 GS, 4.44 ERA
Basically he had a run of about 35 starts where he was dominant. In his other 63 starts with the Cubs, he's been a solid #2 or 3 type guy.
Fair enough.
(Not directing at you necessarily, just all the Chicago backers here)
Clay Matthes: PED user despite never failing a drug test, absolutely no doubt about it (I agree here).
Jake Arrieta: How dare you question the integrity of the man?! He worked insanely hard to bring out the talent that was always inside him and never failed a drug test in his life!
Got it. Makes sense. My fault.
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Fair enough.
(Not directing at you necessarily, just all the Chicago backers here)
Clay Matthes: PED user despite never failing a drug test, absolutely no doubt about it (I agree here).
Jake Arrieta: How dare you question the integrity of the man?! He worked insanely hard to bring out the talent that was always inside him and never failed a drug test in his life!
Got it. Makes sense. My fault.
Once again you're having an issue with illogical inferences.
Many posters have stated that they don't know whether Arrieta is a PED guy or not. What they do know is that he was a highly-touted pitching prospect, he dominated in the minors, he has long had great stuff but control issues, one team tried to change his mechanics and he struggled, another team let him pitch how he was comfortable and his results increased dramatically. This comes in response to your argument, which basically seems to be "the guy went from bad to great so therefore he's a cheater."
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It is exactly a story of a bad pitcher becoming historically great overnight. To a tee, really. He was very bad, and the next season he was the best pitcher in baseball. There's really no arguing that lol. The reason? Sure, argue all you'd like. Just like Sammy Sosa just had a bat to put on BP shows for the crowds showing up before the game that he accidentally grabbed instead of his normal game bat and just like he suddenly forgot how to speak English when pressed about steroid use, it's all natural baby. Just looks like it isn't.
But to deny that Arrieta went from bad to the best pitcher in baseball in an offseason? Well, okay I guess.
So you're the type of dude that even when presented tons of evidence to the contrary you just hold onto your weak argument, huh.
He was bad in 2014? A 2.53 ERA and a .99 WHIP is bad? GTFO.
The Sosa comparison is ridiculous, BTW. Not as ridiculous as you but ridiculous nonetheless.
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So you're the type of dude that even when presented tons of evidence to the contrary you just hold onto your weak argument, huh.
He was bad in 2014? A 2.53 ERA and a .99 WHIP is bad? GTFO.
The Sosa comparison is ridiculous, BTW. Not as ridiculous as you but ridiculous nonetheless.
Who said 2014 was bad? Lol. That's the year he went from a career ERA of well over 5 to 2.5 at the age of 28. Thought that was fairly clear what I've been talking about?
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I think going from 75 to 156 to 229 innings pitched in consecutive years could definitely contribute to a drop in velocity. And his production was of course going to drop off from last year, but I think this is largely due to a 3.47BB/9 (vs 1.89 in 2015) and this is mostly due to his inability to locate his slider this season.
Yep. His "down" year this season has been due to erratic command more often than not. The stuff is still nasty and the velocity is still good. His mechanics are complicated.
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Who said 2014 was bad? Lol. That's the year he went from a career ERA of well over 5 to 2.5 at the age of 28. Thought that was fairly clear what I've been talking about?
You said he went from bad to great overnight. He clearly did not. You don't look at overall stats. You look at them year by year.
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What does "par for the course for wades" mean? I'm curious.
Stubbornly clinging to your position in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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Yes. Velocity fluctuation. Meaning it goes up and down but overall hovers around the same number. Not a consistent velocity up until you're 28 and then a sudden increase of 2-4 (depending on pitch type) MPH, and now suddenly back down to where you were 3 years ago.
Where's the dramatic velocity fluctuations you're referencing? I just don't see them. And why is that? Because they don't exist.
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=453562&time=&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=10/27/2016&s_type=2
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Who said 2014 was bad? Lol. That's the year he went from a career ERA of well over 5 to 2.5 at the age of 28. Thought that was fairly clear what I've been talking about?
Again, this improvement was largely due to command. 4.9BB/9 vs 2.36BB/9 while his velocity actually decreased.
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Often overlooked is that Arrieta wasn't even an All-Star in 2015. On June 16 he had a respectable but unspectacular 3.40 ERA. From May 25 thru the end of the 2016 regular season his ERA was 3.95. He had a historic second half of 2015. He isn't a Cy Young candidate in 2016.
Honestly, I think that Theo and FO have their doubt about whether he's going to be able to keep it up long-term, which is why they have been a bit hesitant about a contract extension. He's still under team control thru 2017 but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's wearing a different uni when 2018 begins.
I agree that next season will likely be his last as a Cub based on what he is going to want and what another team will likely pay him.
The rotation will have a very different look come 2018. Lester, Hendricks, probably Montgomery and then who knows.
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Based on this current argument, is Kluber juicing?
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Based on this current argument, is Kluber juicing?
1) Wouldn't surprise me but 2) he didn't go from a guy with a career ERA of well over 5 to suddenly below half of that in one season. He's pretty much been a stud since his first full season in the MLB. So another comparison that doesn't hold up.
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1) Wouldn't surprise me but 2) he didn't go from a guy with a career ERA of well over 5 to suddenly below half of that in one season. He's pretty much been a stud since his first full season in the MLB. So another comparison that doesn't hold up.
What about Junior Guerra?
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What about Junior Guerra?
Yeah I'd be surprised if he didn't take PEDs somewhere along the way.
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1) Wouldn't surprise me but 2) he didn't go from a guy with a career ERA of well over 5 to suddenly below half of that in one season. He's pretty much been a stud since his first full season in the MLB. So another comparison that doesn't hold up.
Fair. I just remember talk of him begin rather mundane in the minors before he decided to not throw his fastball (as he couldn't control it) and focused on his pitches with movement. Since then, apparently, he's been much, much better.
I was just pointing out that a mechanical or pitch type change can effect someone's stats/success.
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1) Wouldn't surprise me but 2) he didn't go from a guy with a career ERA of well over 5 to suddenly below half of that in one season. He's pretty much been a stud since his first full season in the MLB. So another comparison that doesn't hold up.
Yeah, but he had an ERA around 4.50 in the minors, so it's obvious what he did to become a good major leaguer.
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Yeah, but he had an ERA around 4.50 in the minors, so it's obvious what he did to become a good major leaguer.
Was he in the minors until he was 28 or...?
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Was he in the minors until he was 28 or...?
In 2013, at age 27, he went back and forth between AAA and the Majors.
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In 2013, at age 27, he went back and forth between AAA and the Majors.
He made 2 starts in the minors. He made 24 starts in the MLB with a 3.85 ERA.
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He made 2 starts in the minors. He made 24 starts in the MLB with a 3.85 ERA.
My bad. I thought you were still talking about Arrieta.
I assume this is in reference to Kluber.
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My bad. I thought you were still talking about Arrieta.
I assume this is in reference to Kluber.
Ahh gotcha. Yes I meant Kluber. Not sure if Kluber's 2 starts in the minors were rehab starts or not. My guess would be yes because he had a solid season that year but I don't really know.
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Three more wins.
(http://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F0923%2Fr130139_1296x729_16-9.jpg&w=570)
(http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2005/07/09/CUBS_MARLINS_bw_sports_t440.jpg?9e2a24ba44807f8f9b96aad7c4082bf6ded075dc)
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Three more wins.
(http://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F0923%2Fr130139_1296x729_16-9.jpg&w=570)
(http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2005/07/09/CUBS_MARLINS_bw_sports_t440.jpg?9e2a24ba44807f8f9b96aad7c4082bf6ded075dc)
FWIW - I've been enjoying these.
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Can't believe it's finally here. I'm fortunate enough to get to go today and Sunday. Watching Saturday may be an issue as I refuse to pay those ridiculous covers.
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Can't believe it's finally here. I'm fortunate enough to get to go today and Sunday. Watching Saturday may be an issue as I refuse to pay those ridiculous covers.
I actually think that the "ridiculous covers" make a lot of sense (aside from the supply and demand aspect). For the NLCS, the Wrigleyville bars were complete madhouses, not to mention they had to have been well over capacity. From what I've heard, people couldn't move around, couldn't get to the bathrooms, couldn't get a drink, etc. It was just a mass of humanity in tight quarters. The covers should deter people from coming and make the experience much more enjoyable for those who are willing to pay it.
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the only problem I have with the Cubs is that they grow up to be Bears
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I actually think that the "ridiculous covers" make a lot of sense (aside from the supply and demand aspect). For the NLCS, the Wrigleyville bars were complete madhouses, not to mention they had to have been well over capacity. From what I've heard, people couldn't move around, couldn't get to the bathrooms, couldn't get a drink, etc. It was just a mass of humanity in tight quarters. The covers should deter people from coming and make the experience much more enjoyable for those who are willing to pay it.
I was in Wrigleyville for the NLCS, and it honestly wasn't that bad, once you were in the bar. Fire code prevented it from getting too packed. The bigger issue was getting in, having to wait in line outside. They are just changing the model from rewarding people who are willing to wait to rewarding people willing to pony up a buck. I guess I don't have a huge problem with it, but the in-bar experience will be the exact same. And I'm not paying $150 to stand in a crowded bar. But to each their own.
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I actually think that the "ridiculous covers" make a lot of sense (aside from the supply and demand aspect). For the NLCS, the Wrigleyville bars were complete madhouses, not to mention they had to have been well over capacity. From what I've heard, people couldn't move around, couldn't get to the bathrooms, couldn't get a drink, etc. It was just a mass of humanity in tight quarters. The covers should deter people from coming and make the experience much more enjoyable for those who are willing to pay it.
I understand it from a business perspective. I just think it sucks.
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I understand it from a business perspective. I just think it sucks.
You might not have heard....you can also watch it from the comfort of your own home...
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You might not have heard....you can also watch it from the comfort of your own home...
Where'd you hear this? Are people talking about this? That's tremendous.
I just really enjoy the atmosphere of being in a crowd for such a big game. I'm willing to get my ass up early tomorrow to go wait in line somewhere. Picking the right spot will be tough.
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Was just sent a tweet from someone saying Murphys is One in One out already...tomorrow will prob be earlier being the weekend.
Good luck to those that brave the masses!
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Three more wins.
(http://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F0923%2Fr130139_1296x729_16-9.jpg&w=570)
(http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2005/07/09/CUBS_MARLINS_bw_sports_t440.jpg?9e2a24ba44807f8f9b96aad7c4082bf6ded075dc)
(http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/28/e8/4b/28e84bc8c52ae354fd6fcd61f5fb4698.jpg)
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30-40 mph winds blowing out? It might be a replay of the 23-22 game against the Phillies in the early 80's.
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30-40 mph winds blowing out? It might be a replay of the 23-22 game against the Phillies in the early 80's.
Strangely, the Phillies only used 5 pitchers in the game.
Could have been a lot worse. Phillies only scored 2 runs in the final 5 innings.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/addicted-to-losing-some-cubs-fans-want-their-team-to-lose-world-series-survey-shows-161752141.html
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Was just sent a tweet from someone saying Murphys is One in One out already...tomorrow will prob be earlier being the weekend.
Good luck to those that brave the masses!
http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/the-line-for-murphys-started-at-8-am-a-full-11-hours-before-first-pitch/
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Fangraphs.com
Wades, you are just bizzare on this. Kinda Chicos-like bizzare.
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30-40 mph winds blowing out? It might be a replay of the 23-22 game against the Phillies in the early 80's.
Isn't that the game where Barry Foote broke the window on the apt building on Waveland?
Not to mention Kingman v Schmidt.
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Good thing Hendricks is a ground ball pitcher.
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Good thing Hendricks is a ground ball pitcher.
They were talking about the wind on the Score this morning and that was one of my first thoughts. Cleveland sending out a pitcher that gives up the longball, Chicago sending out Hendricks, seems like a perfect storm for the Cubs. Of course, it's baseball, so who knows?
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They were talking about the wind on the Score this morning and that was one of my first thoughts. Cleveland sending out a pitcher that gives up the longball, Chicago sending out Hendricks, seems like a perfect storm for the Cubs. Of course, it's baseball, so who knows?
Hendricks keeping up his end of the bargain with 2 infield hits so far.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/addicted-to-losing-some-cubs-fans-want-their-team-to-lose-world-series-survey-shows-161752141.html
I can relate to this. The soul of a non bandwagon cub fan is the fact that you root for them no matter what is happening. When your at Wrigley it's always a blast even when you lose 100 games.
I'll say that I really want the cubs to finally win. But I do believe that some of the magic might be lost if they win this world series or even more if they win multiple times.
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I can relate to this. The soul of a non bandwagon cub fan is the fact that you root for them no matter what is happening. When your at Wrigley it's always a blast even when you lose 100 games.
I'll say that I really want the cubs to finally win. But I do believe that some of the magic might be lost if they win this world series or even more if they win multiple times.
I don't know...I know it's been the Cubs identity for a long time, but the Blackhawks also had the longest streak since the last Stanley Cup, and these postseasons haven't felt any less magical as they start to stack rings on the bottom of the Cup.
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I can relate to this. The soul of a non bandwagon cub fan is the fact that you root for them no matter what is happening. When your at Wrigley it's always a blast even when you lose 100 games.
I'll say that I really want the cubs to finally win. But I do believe that some of the magic might be lost if they win this world series or even more if they win multiple times.
That sounds like being afraid of change more than anything else. Ask Red Sox fans if they feel the magic is lost after their success over the past decade. If anything, it's been enhanced.
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No rooting interest, but that was a hell of a baseball game.
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No rooting interest, but that was a hell of a baseball game.
Yup. I love the Playoffs. Every pitch is so important. Such great atmospheres. Every lineup move can make or break a game.
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Just brutal. What was it, 0/14 (1 reached on error) with runners in scoring position? With the wind blowing out, I expected a lot more. Hell, I just thought they'd at least be able to put bats to balls. Incredible game, but really frustrating to watch for the Cubbies.
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Joe Maddon should be fired! Baseball 101. Bunt!
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Indians were lucky to survive some one-sided brutal umpiring by Hirschbeck.
I switched over to MLB Network after the game because the Fox guys are not my cup of tea. I thought it was bad during the game (like when Napoli struck out on a called strike in the other batters box and Bryant walked on a pitch right down the middle a few inches above the knee.
Leiter confirmed my suspicions on MLB network. Hirschbeck called 10 pitches outside the strike zone strikes, 8 of them for the Cubs. He called 9 pitches in the strike zone balls, again 8 of them favored the Cubs. This is extreme, but it is normal for the home team to get the better strike zone. The Bryant Gumbel show on HBO did a story about it a few weeks back.
I think the game would be better served if balls and strikes were called by Questec technology and instant replay challenges had to be made within a specified time (short, like 20 seconds) of the call on the field. I hate the game delays as teams figure out whether or not they want to challenge. If its egregious or very important, challenge. If you need to look at slow motion replay for a minute or two figure out if it is worth challenging, just play on.
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Indians were lucky to survive some one-sided brutal umpiring by Hirschbeck.
I switched over to MLB Network after the game because the Fox guys are not my cup of tea. I thought it was bad during the game (like when Napoli struck out on a called strike in the other batters box and Bryant walked on a pitch right down the middle a few inches above the knee.
Leiter confirmed my suspicions on MLB network. Hirschbeck called 10 pitches outside the strike zone strikes, 8 of them for the Cubs. He called 9 pitches in the strike zone balls, again 8 of them favored the Cubs. This is extreme, but it is normal for the home team to get the better strike zone. The Bryant Gumbel show on HBO did a story about it a few weeks back.
I think the game would be better served if balls and strikes were called by Questec technology and instant replay challenges had to be made within a specified time (short, like 20 seconds) of the call on the field. I hate the game delays as teams figure out whether or not they want to challenge. If its egregious or very important, challenge. If you need to look at slow motion replay for a minute or two figure out if it is worth challenging, just play on.
OMG, no. That's just what I want, 6 hour games. For over 120 years we got by just fine without replay in baseball. I acknowledge that in limited instances it makes some sense and I sincerely believe that in each case in the series a correct (and important) call was made after replay. But the Indians are in very good shape at the moment because their core group of about 6 pitchers (starters and pen) has been materially superior to the Cubs. I hope all folks, even my diehard Cubs fan friends, can respect the absolute gem they collectively produced last night. Cubs pitching has been very good. Indians pitching, literally every pitch, borderline perfect.
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Two more wins. ;D
(http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Jhonny+Peralta+Cleveland+Indians+v+Texas+Rangers+z59VUFlX-4Ll.jpg)
(http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Trevor+Crowe+Cleveland+Indians+v+Chicago+White+F_7KF32PaVsl.jpg)
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I'm still marveling that not a single ball flew out of the park last night (for either team).
That said. I still have confidence in the Cubs! They came back from 2-1 in the last series against some good pitching :)
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I switched over to MLB Network after the game because the Fox guys are not my cup of tea. I thought it was bad during the game (like when Napoli struck out on a called strike in the other batters box and Bryant walked on a pitch right down the middle a few inches above the knee.
For real fans, MLB does a better job than any network on any sport. Some outstanding on-air analysts.
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I'm still marveling that not a single ball flew out of the park last night (for either team).
That said. I still have confidence in the Cubs! They came back from 2-1 in the last series against some good pitching :)
I agree completely. I feared Tomlin would give up a couple long balls (at least). If they've learned nothing else in the last few months, Cleveland fans have learned that teams can come back from big deficits in championship series. This one won't be over until the final out is in the books (as we learned here in 1997).
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I'll say that I really want the cubs to finally win. But I do believe that some of the magic might be lost if they win this world series or even more if they win multiple times.
As Red Sox fan who rooted intensely for them for 35 seasons before they won (86 years overall for the team) I harbored no secret hopes that they would not win. But I will say this. Once they finally won in 04, the games did not have that life or death urgency that they used to have for me. It was still great when they won again in 07 and 13, but nothing will ever match finally getting over the hump the first time.
You'd have to be at least 75 to really remember an Indians championship, so either way one fan base will finally know what it is like.
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Indians were lucky to survive some one-sided brutal umpiring by Hirschbeck.
I switched over to MLB Network after the game because the Fox guys are not my cup of tea. I thought it was bad during the game (like when Napoli struck out on a called strike in the other batters box and Bryant walked on a pitch right down the middle a few inches above the knee.
Leiter confirmed my suspicions on MLB network. Hirschbeck called 10 pitches outside the strike zone strikes, 8 of them for the Cubs. He called 9 pitches in the strike zone balls, again 8 of them favored the Cubs. This is extreme, but it is normal for the home team to get the better strike zone. The Bryant Gumbel show on HBO did a story about it a few weeks back.
I think the game would be better served if balls and strikes were called by Questec technology and instant replay challenges had to be made within a specified time (short, like 20 seconds) of the call on the field. I hate the game delays as teams figure out whether or not they want to challenge. If its egregious or very important, challenge. If you need to look at slow motion replay for a minute or two figure out if it is worth challenging, just play on.
I have to believe that in the not-too-distant future MLB will rely exclusively on the computer calling balls and strikes, with the umpire there only to make calls at home plate, balks, etc.
I will say that, as a Little League ump, seeing how "wrong" MLB umps are makes me feel a little better about myself.
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Is Ronnie Woo-Woo still alive and at the game?
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Is Ronnie Woo-Woo still alive and at the game?
Still alive. Haven't seen him in any recent media about him except for this:
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/17893842/ahead-historic-world-series-revisit-chicago-cubs-fans-no-love-lost
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Still alive. Haven't seen him in any recent media about him except for this:
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/17893842/ahead-historic-world-series-revisit-chicago-cubs-fans-no-love-lost
Thanks Chick.
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I thought this before the All Star Break, and got into an argument with a Cubs fan about it, but I felt the Cubs lineup was flawed to win in October. Last year, the Mets gave a blueprint to beat the Cubs. Dodgers tried it but didn't have the horses to do it, and the Tribe do. They're getting off speed/breaking balls early in counts, on 2-0, and it's thrown them off. I liked that they were aggressive earlier in counts tonight, but you can clearly tell their not comfortable. Heyward had an unusually good night, but Contreras/Russell/Baez/9th spot were auto outs, and as much potential as those guys have, they've regressed back toward their means this series. I don't know how you fix it, they're young and will certainly learn, and all have superstar potential, but good advanced scouting and good pitching has done them in again.
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One more win.
(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/casey-blake-of-the-cleveland-indians-stands-ready-at-bat-against-the-picture-id73915620)
(http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Cleveland+Indians+v+Kansas+City+Royals+DA2rSFbaAzAl.jpg)
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Curious to know what's the ticket price on the street for tonight's game?
Scalpers in Cleveland must be praying for a loss tonight. Not to mention Fox.
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Curious to know what's the ticket price on the street for tonight's game?
Scalpers in Cleveland must be praying for a loss tonight. Not to mention Fox.
World Series ticket prices dip after Cubs' Game 3 loss
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17919052/world-series-ticket-prices-dip-chicago-cubs-game-3-loss
Prices on the resale market for Games 4 and 5 of the World Series in Chicago plummeted on Saturday morning after the Cubs' loss to the Indians on Friday.
When Game 3 ended, the cheapest seats to Games 4 and 5 were $1,900 and $2,400, respectively. By 5:15 p.m. Central Time on Saturday, some three hours before the first pitch for Game 4, the cheapest ticket to that night's game on StubHub was $1,700, which had come up some from the early afternoon ($1,475).
Game 5 dropped even more precipitously because the loss assured that if the Cubs were to win the World Series, it wouldn't be done at home. The get-in price on StubHub when Game 3 ended was $2,400. By Saturday afternoon, that ticket was $1,500, a decline of 37.5 percent.
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Thanks Heisie
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To all the Cub fans as Yogi used to say, "It a'int over until it's over."
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To all the Cub fans as Yogi used to say, "It a'int over until it's over."
Granted, it's completely true, and a win tonight against Bauer seems plausible, and no reason they can't get a second in Cleveland on Tuesday. That said, when the deluge started last night, it felt like 2003 all over again. I remember watching that horror show in the 8th, just 5 outs away from the Series, and knew it was over. As run after run went across home plate, it was just a sinking feeling. Of course, logic said "there's always Game 7" but I knew that was over before it started.
My girlfriend at the time came in to see me dejected in the 4th inning. Here's the exchange:
Her: Not going well?
Me: No, the Cubs are winning.
Her (confused): Huh? Then what's wrong? Aren't they going to the World Series if they win?
Me: Yeah, but they won't. They'll find a way to screw it up. That's just what happens. They're the Cubs.
That's how I felt last night. They could win tonight, win Tuesday, and I'd still expect Kluber to shut them down on Wednesday, or something else to go wrong that cost them the Series. I'd love to be wrong, and I do believe this won't be the last chance this team will have in the next decade, but when you are used to losing all your life, it's hard to really think things will change, especially once you see them start to go wrong.
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Granted, it's completely true, and a win tonight against Bauer seems plausible, and no reason they can't get a second in Cleveland on Tuesday. That said, when the deluge started last night, it felt like 2003 all over again. I remember watching that horror show in the 8th, just 5 outs away from the Series, and knew it was over. As run after run went across home plate, it was just a sinking feeling. Of course, logic said "there's always Game 7" but I knew that was over before it started.
My girlfriend at the time came in to see me dejected in the 4th inning. Here's the exchange:
Her: Not going well?
Me: No, the Cubs are winning.
Her (confused): Huh? Then what's wrong? Aren't they going to the World Series if they win?
Me: Yeah, but they won't. They'll find a way to screw it up. That's just what happens. They're the Cubs.
That's how I felt last night. They could win tonight, win Tuesday, and I'd still expect Kluber to shut them down on Wednesday, or something else to go wrong that cost them the Series. I'd love to be wrong, and I do believe this won't be the last chance this team will have in the next decade, but when you are used to losing all your life, it's hard to really think things will change, especially once you see them start to go wrong.
Buck up, Brew. They're playing the Indians. It is absolutely possible that Game 7 will be a 17-error affair as the two teams compete to choke away the Series. I'd love to say I'm super confident about the Indians' 3-1 lead. I'd be lying. Granted, I prefer it to the alternative, but it's far from over. If Lloyds pops into the thread and says this is "doable" for the Cubs, I'll cry.
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Buck up, Brew. They're playing the Indians. It is absolutely possible that Game 7 will be a 17-error affair as the two teams compete to choke away the Series. I'd love to say I'm super confident about the Indians' 3-1 lead. I'd be lying. Granted, I prefer it to the alternative, but it's far from over. If Lloyds pops into the thread and says this is "doable" for the Cubs, I'll cry.
I'm sure they'll get another chance in the coming years, and if they manage to win tonight, I'll keep that hope alive even though I feel certain it's over. Either way, it won't have any long-term affect. I have loved the Cubs since I was a kid, but I can only control what I can control, and if they win or lose, I'll still cheer for them and be content knowing it's of little overall significance to my happiness.
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They probably win tonight with Lester. All you need is to win one game to put doubt into the opponents mind. Hell, the Cavs came back from 3-1 just this year.
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Mind games have been going strong today...
This team is so young, they are in a funk and crumbling under pressure...
This team is so young, they don't know they are supposed to just go away being down 3-1...
They have never faced a pitching staff like this...
They have gone on win steaks so many times this year I lost track...
So many times this year I have had the thought, wow that's not a normal Cub thing to do. The normal Cub thing to do would be to lose about 8-1 tonight. Still have my fingers crossed that the non-Cubness will resurface.
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The construction of the Cubs is a better pitching 2011 Brewers team. Their offense isn't built for October and facing aces every day. But the core is still incredibly young with time to grow. And with what should be a win tonight (Bauer isn't very good, I'd have to imagine the pinky still affects him a bit, and at Wrigley), they still can win this. Arietta vs. Tomlinson Tuesday is a toss up (given its in Cleveland) and then anything can happen in a game 7. Yes, Kluber is incredible, but Hendricks is arguably just as good.
With the Mets likely healthier next year and the Dodgers probably looking to add some offense, plus the Indians getting healthier next year, you never know if it's more difficult next year for the Cubs.
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If Lloyds pops into the thread and says this is "doable" for the Cubs, I'll cry.
Legs, can you do this lifelong Cubs fan a solid?
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Game 3 was the killer thus far. The Cubs hit a number of balls last night that would have been gone out Friday with the wind.
It's cliche but there's nothing else to do except take it one game at a time. Get a win tonight and then I'll take my chances with Arrieta vs Tomlin on short rest. If they can somehow get it to a game 7 anything can happen.
It doesn't look good but I'm not giving up.
I will say Baez has reverted back to his free-swinging ways this series and the team as a whole has been awful with RISP.
Nonetheless, I get to go to a Cubs World Series game on October 30th and that's pretty awesome.
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Nonetheless, I get to go to a Cubs World Series game on October 30th and that's pretty awesome.
That is awesome. I REALLY hope you have a great time!
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Granted, it's completely true, and a win tonight against Bauer seems plausible, and no reason they can't get a second in Cleveland on Tuesday. That said, when the deluge started last night, it felt like 2003 all over again. I remember watching that horror show in the 8th, just 5 outs away from the Series, and knew it was over. As run after run went across home plate, it was just a sinking feeling. Of course, logic said "there's always Game 7" but I knew that was over before it started.
My girlfriend at the time came in to see me dejected in the 4th inning. Here's the exchange:
Her: Not going well?
Me: No, the Cubs are winning.
Her (confused): Huh? Then what's wrong? Aren't they going to the World Series if they win?
Me: Yeah, but they won't. They'll find a way to screw it up. That's just what happens. They're the Cubs.
That's how I felt last night. They could win tonight, win Tuesday, and I'd still expect Kluber to shut them down on Wednesday, or something else to go wrong that cost them the Series. I'd love to be wrong, and I do believe this won't be the last chance this team will have in the next decade, but when you are used to losing all your life, it's hard to really think things will change, especially once you see them start to go wrong.
Don't give up Brew. Strange thing can happen in baseball even against my beloved Yankees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_American_League_Championship_Series
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The upside about this year is it seems like even if the Cubs can't pull it out (and it does look bleak) the core is so young and talented that they almost have to be back.
And VBMG, that is awesome. Enjoy the game, help cheer them back to Cleveland
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Real interesting dilemma there...Ross came up with bases loaded, sac fly for out 2, then Lester K's to end the inning. You have Schwarber sitting there...
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Real interesting dilemma there...Ross came up with bases loaded, sac fly for out 2, then Lester K's to end the inning. You have Schwarber sitting there...
I was about to post something similar before Ross drove in the run. I think if the runners had advanced or if the bases were still loaded, you give Schwarber a long think. But with the third run across the plate and a force at every base, you're better holding off.
That said, you probably really want to get Lester into the 6th now unless the runs start flowing.
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Said it before, but no crowd reacts louder to a weak 150' pop up like the Wrigley crowd.
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Said it before, but no crowd reacts louder to a weak 150' pop up like the Wrigley crowd.
I think most crowds are like that. Cleveland was going nuts for flyouts in game 2.
EDIT: I really, really hope Lester learns to work with Contreras next year. His inability to throw to a base and keep runners close just kills him, and despite the quick delivery home, Ross so often seems to lose the ball as he comes up. At least 3 times this playoffs (including I believe both WS steals) Ross didn't even get the ball to second.
With Lester so quick to home and Contreras having such a gun, there's actually a chance they'd be able to stop some steals. Lord knows Lester can't do it on his own.
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Said it before, but no crowd reacts louder to a weak 150' pop up like the Wrigley crowd.
Plenty of things to bitch about Cubs fans for, that is not one of them.
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And of course after I say that, Ross throws out Lindor ;D
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Beautiful throw to get Lindor.
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Plenty of things to bitch about Cubs fans for, that is not one of them.
Did you watch that Rizzo at bat? That ball didn't even make it half way out to the outfield, I played it back on my DVR, you'd thought it was blasted on to Sheffield. Ridiculous.
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Really not sure about going away from Lester already. I'd at least let him try to get the first batter or two. Wonder if Maddon is already planning on going to Chapman in the 8th if they still have the lead.
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Did you watch that Rizzo at bat? That ball didn't even make it half way out to the outfield, I played it back on my DVR, you'd thought it was blasted on to Sheffield. Ridiculous.
I did. Views from inside the stadium tend to be very deceiving.
I was at the Redskins vs Bengals game today, from where I was at the time, on the Hopkins field goal attempt in OT, the first one where Cinci called the timeout looked like it missed badly when he actually drilled it. While the one he actually missed looked like it went in from my point of view.
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Uhh...really? :o
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Uhh...really? :o
I think Joe forgot what inning it was.
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Really not sure about going away from Lester already. I'd at least let him try to get the first batter or two. Wonder if Maddon is already planning on going to Chapman in the 8th if they still have the lead.
I don't have a good feeling about this. Chapman's coming in...he's not Andrew Miller here.
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I don't have a good feeling about this. Chapman's coming in...he's not Andrew Miller here.
Honestly my wife (a life long Indians fan) just said "oh good, they're bringing in the closer in the 7th. Let's see how strong his arm is after a few innings". I told her i don't think he backs down from that kind of challenge from a woman.
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My concern is Chapman sitting in the dugout twice, dude is a creature of habit. Still tough to hit him, but wouldn't be shocked by a walk or two.
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Davis should have attempted to steal home.
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(http://www.mycubstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/cubs-lee-rock-brewers-1.jpg)
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Got called out at work in the 8th, came back to see the popup and the final strikeout. Gutsy move by Maddon going for the 8 out save. Quite a game, and if they can pull off Game 6, will be a great Series regardless. Still expect another loss, just the Cub fan in me, but at least hope springs eternal for another couple days.
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That is awesome. I REALLY hope you have a great time!
Thanks man. I split season tickets so I've been fortunate to go to a bunch, including NLCS game 6, so it was really nice to see them extend the series tonight. The fans deserved to see a win at home.
Aside from my own enjoyment, one of the most memorable parts of game 6 was seeing the pure joy of a couple of older gentleman who we're sitting near us. I'm not young anymore but that was something special to witness, even though I know what it means (my grandpa was a fan who is no longer here).
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The upside about this year is it seems like even if the Cubs can't pull it out (and it does look bleak) the core is so young and talented that they almost have to be back.
And VBMG, that is awesome. Enjoy the game, help cheer them back to Cleveland
Did my best. Knocked over my own $11 beer prior to the 3 run inning so I assume that was connected.
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I thought Lester deserved another inning but it worked out.
Despite Tomlin's recent success I like the Cubs matchup on Tuesday. Hopefully Jake is juicing enough to pitch well #wadesworld
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I thought Lester deserved another inning but it worked out.
Despite Tomlin's recent success I like the Cubs matchup on Tuesday. Hopefully Jake is juicing enough to pitch well #wadesworld
Wouldn't doubt it if he's getting some...*treatment*.
Go Tribe.
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Wouldn't doubt it if he's getting some...*treatment*.
Go Tribe.
Still waiting for you to respond to my post about his huge "spike" in velocity.
You suck.
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Still waiting for you to respond to my post about his huge "spike" in velocity.
You suck.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4153&position=P
But sure. The 28 year old just happened to go from a bad MLB pitcher to the best in the world in 1 offseason naturally, in a game where everyone has always found a way to be a step ahead of the system. The 5'10", 150 lb, 9 career homer Dee Gordon uses PEDs but no chance in hell that the guy who developed into the best pitcher at the age that all athletes develop at, 28 years old, used them.
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“I’ve heard players, and I’m talking about some of the best players in the league,’’ Arrieta told USA TODAY Sports, “question whether I’ve taken steroids or not. Some of the things I hear are pretty funny, and some people are idiots, frankly.
“I’ll see on Twitter, ‘My close source revealed to me he’s on steroids.’ Well, the 10 tests I take a year say otherwise. I eat plants. I eat lean meat. I work out. And I do things the right way.
“If there are guys still on it, I hope they get caught. I care about the integrity of the game. I wouldn’t want to disappoint my family, my friends, my fans. That’s a huge motivating factor in doing it the right way.
“Hey, that’s one of the best compliments you can give a guy,’’ he says. “I appreciate the fact that you think I’m pretty good, but taking steroids, that’s pushing it.’’
As they say, "The lady doth protest too much."
Chances are pretty high that his peers in the MLB would have a better idea about whether a player is doping or not. Apparently his peers think he is, too. But that can't be possible, he told Cubs fans he didn't!
Weird that all he denies is steroid use. No kidding you've past your drug tests because you don't use steroids. That's the drug of the past in the MLB. That would get caught even at the lowest level. Nobody in baseball uses steroids anymore.
Other PEDs? Glad he didn't lie about not using those.
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Still ridiculous misconceptions with PEDs. They dont automatically make you a better hitter or pitcher. PEDs, wont allow you to put 3 MPH on your fastball or make your curveball break off the table and put it where you want it to go.
Same on the hitting end, PEDs arent going to allow you to catch up to a fastball any more than you would have prior to using. It doesnt help your eyesight for pitches and it doesnt even help you hit 20 ft longer than you usually would.
All PEDs do is help a player recover faster which is why theyre more prevalant in baseball because of the 162 game schedule. Just like Marijuana is more apparent in the NFL, because of how hard they get hit every week. Byproduct of the game.
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Still ridiculous misconceptions with PEDs. They dont automatically make you a better hitter or pitcher. PEDs, wont allow you to put 3 MPH on your fastball or make your curveball break off the table and put it where you want it to go.
Same on the hitting end, PEDs arent going to allow you to catch up to a fastball any more than you would have prior to using. It doesnt help your eyesight for pitches and it doesnt even help you hit 20 ft longer than you usually would.
All PEDs do is help a player recover faster which is why theyre more prevalant in baseball because of the 162 game schedule. Just like Marijuana is more apparent in the NFL, because of how hard they get hit every week. Byproduct of the game.
Not all PEDs, no. Some are used for recovery, others are used for ability to do things on the field/court you wouldn't be able to do otherwise. But regardless, whether you're using them to recover quicker or to perform better, they are enhancing your performance and are banned for a reason. The reason you take them doesn't matter, you're not allowed to take them in sports.
Here's what I always find funny about people who defend athletes. The whole, "He never failed a drug test! He obviously doesn't take PEDs!"
Honest question for those who love that defense. Do you really think October of 2011 was the first time Ryan Braun ever touched a PED? C'mon now.
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Here's what I always find funny about people who defend athletes. The whole, "He never failed a drug test! He obviously doesn't take PEDs!"
Here's what I always find funny... a dude gets better and people KNOW it's PEDs.
Basically every pitcher the Cubs have acquired has gotten better under Bosio. It couldn't possibly be better coaching, better training, or the fact that he's allowed to pitch the way he wants rather than how the Orioles wanted him to pitch. No. It's PEDs.
Get a clue.
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Here's what I always find funny... a dude gets better and people KNOW it's PEDs.
Basically every pitcher the Cubs have acquired has gotten better under Bosio. It couldn't possibly be better coaching, better training, or the fact that he's allowed to pitch the way he wants rather than how the Orioles wanted him to pitch. No. It's PEDs.
Get a clue.
Obviously Bosio is the one handing out the meds.
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I have no idea if Arrieta is using anything or not. As an Orioles fan, I will say he was always considered a potential ace in the minors. Great stuff but lacked consistency and control. I think the change of scenery did Arrieta a lot of good. The Orioles have a very poor record of developing major league arms. Since Mike Mussina, it's pretty much Gausman and Bundy as their only home grown starters. And both of those were top 5 picks- one was a college arm and the other has been injury prone.
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Here's what I always find funny... a dude gets better and people KNOW it's PEDs.
Basically every pitcher the Cubs have acquired has gotten better under Bosio. It couldn't possibly be better coaching, better training, or the fact that he's allowed to pitch the way he wants rather than how the Orioles wanted him to pitch. No. It's PEDs.
Get a clue.
Going from an ERA well over 5 to an ERA under 2 at the young age of 28? Very common. Happens all the time. Just coaching, baby. Especially in a sport where everyone has always found a way around banned substance testing.
Yeah, I need the clue.
Lol.
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If "everyone has always found a way around banned substance testing," what's the point in getting mad at one specific athlete?
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If "everyone has always found a way around banned substance testing," what's the point in getting mad at one specific athlete?
Personally I'm not mad at all.
I've said it over and over again, if you're a baseball (or football) player and you don't take them you have an incredible uphill battle to climb to make it to the top of your profession.
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Going from an ERA well over 5 to an ERA under 2 at the young age of 28? Very common. Happens all the time. Just coaching, baby. Especially in a sport where everyone has always found a way around banned substance testing.
Yeah, I need the clue.
Lol.
Here's a guy with an ERA well over 5 and then became a Cy Young at 28
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml
Greg Maddux was on PEDs though.
Clown.
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Yea, football has kinda turned a blind eye to PED use haven't they? I would be fine if the MLB did the same kinda thing.
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Here's a guy with an ERA well over 5 and then became a Cy Young at 28
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml
Greg Maddux was on PEDs though.
Clown.
Wow man. You really hurt my feelings. :'(
But yeah. Well over 5...as a 20/21 year old. And the 20 year old season he pitched in 6 games. So he had 1 bad season as a 21 year old and then was a very, very good starter from there. Shocking that a 21 year old in his first year in the bigs would improve in his second year as a 22 year old I tell ya. Not exactly the same as a 27 year who spends 5 years going up and down between the majors/minors who suddenly at 28 becomes the best pitcher in baseball.
Good comparison though. You're on a roll!
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Yea, football has kinda turned a blind eye to PED use haven't they? I would be fine if the MLB did the same kinda thing.
+1. Anabolic steroids? Yeah, that kind of diminishes the game. But some of the stuff that just helps keep you on the field? Meh, not a big deal to me.
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http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4153&position=P
But sure. The 28 year old just happened to go from a bad MLB pitcher to the best in the world in 1 offseason naturally, in a game where everyone has always found a way to be a step ahead of the system. The 5'10", 150 lb, 9 career homer Dee Gordon uses PEDs but no chance in hell that the guy who developed into the best pitcher at the age that all athletes develop at, 28 years old, used them.
Right - a whole one MPH difference. Same as the data I had posted previously in the thread:
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=453562&time=&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=10/27/2016&s_type=2
Not the 2-4 MPH difference you were spouting off about.
And once again, he did not go from a terrible pitcher to a great pitcher in one year. Sure, his historical stretch was an outlier, but his numbers improved from 2013 to 2014 to 2015.
Are you really this stupid or just trolling at this point?
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As they say, "The lady doth protest too much."
Chances are pretty high that his peers in the MLB would have a better idea about whether a player is doping or not. Apparently his peers think he is, too. But that can't be possible, he told Cubs fans he didn't!
Weird that all he denies is steroid use. No kidding you've past your drug tests because you don't use steroids. That's the drug of the past in the MLB. That would get caught even at the lowest level. Nobody in baseball uses steroids anymore.
Other PEDs? Glad he didn't lie about not using those.
Or maybe he doesn't appreciate turds like you questioning his success that's based off of hard work and perseverance.
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Going from an ERA well over 5 to an ERA under 2 at the young age of 28? Very common. Happens all the time. Just coaching, baby. Especially in a sport where everyone has always found a way around banned substance testing.
Yeah, I need the clue.
Lol.
BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. Repeating something over and over and over again that is not true doesn't make it true.
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2016 Cubs fans who can't at least understand why it's a legitimate question - which is not the same thing as saying he's guilty - are the same as 1998 Cubs fans who wouldn't stand for any talk of Sammy Sosa being a juicer.
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2016 Cubs fans who can't at least understand why it's a legitimate question - which is not the same thing as saying he's guilty - are the same as 1998 Cubs fans who wouldn't stand for any talk of Sammy Sosa being a juicer.
I think most understand the question based on the history of MLB, but if the thought process is "everyone in MLB is trying to cheat and use PED's and just because they don't test positive doesn't mean they're clean"...why single out Arrieta? Why wouldn't you use this logic for all superstars and all elite MLB players?
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2016 Cubs fans who can't at least understand why it's a legitimate question - which is not the same thing as saying he's guilty - are the same as 1998 Cubs fans who wouldn't stand for any talk of Sammy Sosa being a juicer.
I don't have a huge problem with the question, although I think it is lazy in this particular instance. I do take issue with someone holding steadfastly to an ignorant view despite pretty strong evidence against that view.
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BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. Repeating something over and over and over again that is not true doesn't make it true.
Yeah, I'm the stupid one here and I'm the one who's repeating something over and over without it being true.
Oh wait...
He went from an ERA well over 5 on his career over his first 4 seasons in the MLB (238 earned runs in 409 innings pitched which gets you to an ERA of 5.23 from 2010-2013). In 2014 (see: THE VERY NEXT YEAR!) he had an ERA of...drumroll please...2.53! It appears simple math is difficult for you so here you go. 2.53 x 2 = 5.06. 5.06 (double what his 2014 ERA was) is LESS THAN 5.23...his career ERA up until 2014! So...uhh...what didn't happen again? Who's stupid here?
Lol.
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I think most understand the question based on the history of MLB, but if the thought process is "everyone in MLB is trying to cheat and use PED's and just because they don't test positive doesn't mean they're clean"...why single out Arrieta? Why wouldn't you use this logic for all superstars and all elite MLB players?
I have said as much multiple times on here before.
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I think most understand the question based on the history of MLB, but if the thought process is "everyone in MLB is trying to cheat and use PED's and just because they don't test positive doesn't mean they're clean"...why single out Arrieta? Why wouldn't you use this logic for all superstars and all elite MLB players?
Because Arrieta's career arc is significantly different than all elite MLB players. He was at best a middling pitcher whose performance dramatically improved in a short period of time at an age when that kind of uptick is very rarely seen. 2015 Jake Arrieta was 1996 Brady Anderson. That, combined with the changes in his physical appearance, makes the questions valid. Maybe not fair, but valid.
Jake Arrieta 2012:
(http://www.trbimg.com/img-4f38ace8/turbine/bal-orioles-jake-arrieta-pets-picture/500/500x281)
Jake Arrieta 2015:
(http://www.csnchicago.com/sites/csnchicago/files/styles/article_hero_image/public/2016/04/12/jake-arrieta-hunt-for-october-10-03-15.png?itok=IM5tHO-3)
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Yeah, I'm the stupid one here and I'm the one who's repeating something over and over without it being true.
Oh wait...
He went from an ERA well over 5 on his career over his first 4 seasons in the MLB (238 earned runs in 409 innings pitched which gets you to an ERA of 5.23 from 2010-2013). In 2014 (see: THE VERY NEXT YEAR!) he had an ERA of...drumroll please...2.53! It appears simple math is difficult for you so here you go. 2.53 x 2 = 5.06. 5.06 (double what his 2014 ERA was) is LESS THAN 5.23...his career ERA up until 2014! So...uhh...what didn't happen again? Who's stupid here?
Lol.
You never specified career ERA. Basically you're just manipulating numbers to serve your idiotic narrative.
ERA's after coming to the Cubs:
2013: 3.66
2014: 2.53
2015: 1.77
2016: 3.10
This is not an "overnight" drastic change. Should be simple enough for you to follow along.
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Yeah, I'm the stupid one here and I'm the one who's repeating something over and over without it being true.
Oh wait...
He went from an ERA well over 5 on his career over his first 4 seasons in the MLB (238 earned runs in 409 innings pitched which gets you to an ERA of 5.23 from 2010-2013). In 2014 (see: THE VERY NEXT YEAR!) he had an ERA of...drumroll please...2.53! It appears simple math is difficult for you so here you go. 2.53 x 2 = 5.06. 5.06 (double what his 2014 ERA was) is LESS THAN 5.23...his career ERA up until 2014! So...uhh...what didn't happen again? Who's stupid here?
Lol.
I'm sure the guy learning how to pitch, commanding his pitches, and walking fewer batters had nothing to do it.
Asking the question is fair - trust, but verify. No failed drug tests, which is of course true of everyone until their first failure.
BB/9 & FIP:
2010: 4.3 - 4.76
2011: 4.4 - 5.34
2012: 2.7 - 4.05
2013: 4.9 - 4.84
2014: 2.4 - 2.26
2015: 1.9 - 2.35
2016: 3.5 - 3.52
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Because Arrieta's career arc is significantly different than all elite MLB players. He was at best a middling pitcher whose performance dramatically improved in a short period of time at an age when that kind of uptick is very rarely seen. 2015 Jake Arrieta was 1996 Brady Anderson. That, combined with the changes in his physical appearance, makes the questions valid. Maybe not fair, but valid.
Jake Arrieta 2012:
(http://www.trbimg.com/img-4f38ace8/turbine/bal-orioles-jake-arrieta-pets-picture/500/500x281)
Jake Arrieta 2015:
(http://www.csnchicago.com/sites/csnchicago/files/styles/article_hero_image/public/2016/04/12/jake-arrieta-hunt-for-october-10-03-15.png?itok=IM5tHO-3)
Could you have picked two more misleading pictures?
And yeah, guys don't train differently or put on muscle as they get older and move into their prime.
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It would be kind of nice if people wouldn't talk in absolutes.
"I don't think he uses PEDs." or "I think he uses PEDs."
Because none of us here really knows either way...
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Right - a whole one MPH difference. Same as the data I had posted previously in the thread:
Are you really this stupid or just trolling at this point?
He really appears to be that stupid.
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You never specified career ERA. Basically you're just manipulating numbers to serve your idiotic narrative.
ERA's after coming to the Cubs:
2013: 3.66
2014: 2.53
2015: 1.77
2016: 3.10
This is not an "overnight" drastic change. Should be simple enough for you to follow along.
ERA dropping two runs in two seasons isn't drastic? That happens regularly at 29 years old?
How about K per 9 (6.4 to 9.3)? Or HR per 9 (1.2 to 0.4)?
Also not drastic?
I get that you want to defend and believe in your guy. Nothing wrong with that. But somehow I doubt you'd be such a staunch defender if Arrieta played in St. Louis or Pittsburgh.
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He really appears to be that stupid.
Oh no! Now I'm not just a clown, I'm stupid too! :'(
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If the Cubs come back, I wonder who gets defended/rationalized more Chapman or Arrieta.
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You never specified career ERA. Basically you're just manipulating numbers to serve your idiotic narrative.
ERA's after coming to the Cubs:
2013: 3.66
2014: 2.53
2015: 1.77
2016: 3.10
This is not an "overnight" drastic change. Should be simple enough for you to follow along.
I absolutely specified career ERA.
Who said 2014 was bad? Lol. That's the year he went from a career ERA of well over 5 to 2.5 at the age of 28. Thought that was fairly clear what I've been talking about?
But okay. I'm the stupid one who doesn't read and can't do basic math.
::)
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Davis should have attempted to steal home.
Davis stole second so easily, I don't know why he didn't just steal third on the very next pitch. He then would have scored the tying run on the fly to left that Zobrist stumbled under like a drunk sailor.
I like Francona, an excellent manager, but he waited one batter too long to let Davis stroll into third base with the easy steal.
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I am am always doubtful when it comes to baseball players. When the MLB bans one substance, the next one takes its place and they're always finding ways to beat the system. Greenies to steroids to HGH to all the PEDs used now. I would be more surprised by all star baseball players who do it "naturally" than by those who use some kind of substance that is or should be banned. Heck Dee friggin Gordon got suspended for PED use. The guy is like 5'10" 150 lbs. and has 9 career home runs. Baseball players who DON'T use some sort of PED along the way have suuuuuch an up hill battle because all of their competition does.
I also said this, for anyone who thinks I'm singling out Arrieta. I'm not, at all. I think a huge, huge majority of baseball (and football) players take some sort of PEDs at some point in their careers, and most throughout their entire careers. There are people out there who have always been able to find a way to get a competitive advantage without it popping up on a drug test. I have nothing against Arrieta. I would be shocked if he has not taken PEDs in his career. Just like I'd be shocked if many, many other professional athletes out there haven't, including players on my favorite Brewers and Packers teams. Heck, I personally think Giannis has probably taken some sort of PEDs. To me? No big deal. I just find it funny when people act so shocked that someone could actually question a guy's word of "I didn't take anything."
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Do folks think Daniel Murphy is on PEDs because he suddenly became one of the best hitters in baseball this year at the age of 31?
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It would be kind of nice if people wouldn't talk in absolutes.
"I don't think he uses PEDs." or "I think he uses PEDs."
Because none of us here really knows either way...
Of course I don't know for sure but after gathering all of the information I think the logical belief by any general non-Cubs baseball fan should be that he is clean.
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Do folks think Daniel Murphy is on PEDs because he suddenly became one of the best hitters in baseball this year at the age of 31?
Yes.
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I also said this, for anyone who thinks I'm singling out Arrieta. I'm not, at all. I think a huge, huge majority of baseball (and football) players take some sort of PEDs at some point in their careers, and most throughout their entire careers. There are people out there who have always been able to find a way to get a competitive advantage without it popping up on a drug test. I have nothing against Arrieta. I would be shocked if he has not taken PEDs in his career. Just like I'd be shocked if many, many other professional athletes out there haven't, including players on my favorite Brewers and Packers teams. Heck, I personally think Giannis has probably taken some sort of PEDs. To me? No big deal. I just find it funny when people act so shocked that someone could actually question a guy's word of "I didn't take anything."
If you think that basically every pro athlete is on PEDs then what's the point in arguing about one specific player ad nauseam? Why such outrage over one player's statistical improvement if you think that nearly everyone is also cheating? Could it perhaps be related to the team for whom he plays? I mean, Mike Napoli had career highs in HR and RBI at age 34. I don't think he's juiced up. Where's your Mike Napoli outrage?
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Davis stole second so easily, I don't know why he didn't just steal third on the very next pitch. He then would have scored the tying run on the fly to left that Zobrist stumbled under like a drunk sailor.
I like Francona, an excellent manager, but he waited one batter too long to let Davis stroll into third base with the easy steal.
I know it sounds like a bad idea, but there was zero chance of Chapman throwing over to third, and it would have put Bryant in a tough spot with Lindor up. Given your down one in the 8th with two out, I think it was worth considering. Yes, you potentially take the bat out of Lindor's hands there, but you'd have 3-4-5 up in the 9th. All hindsight now though.
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If you think that basically every pro athlete is on PEDs then what's the point in arguing about one specific player ad nauseam? Why such outrage over one player's statistical improvement if you think that nearly everyone is also cheating? Could it perhaps be related to the team for whom he plays? I mean, Mike Napoli had career highs in HR and RBI at age 34. I don't think he's juiced up. Where's your Mike Napoli outrage?
I'm not the one who brought Arrieta's doping up. I'd be happy to participate in a discussion on any athlete. Feel free to start it and I'll jump right in.
No outrage at all from me.
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I don't know who is or isn't on PEDS. Sandy Koufax and Randy Johnson got significantly better with age.
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I know it sounds like a bad idea, but there was zero chance of Chapman throwing over to third, and it would have put Bryant in a tough spot with Lindor up. Given your down one in the 8th with two out, I think it was worth considering. Yes, you potentially take the bat out of Lindor's hands there, but you'd have 3-4-5 up in the 9th. All hindsight now though.
The answer in so clear. With Kipnis up and Davis in second, Davis should have stolen 3rd and Kipnis should have bunted. Davis should have wheeled all the way around to score. They had a chance to do a perfect Major league. And they missed it. WTF.
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The answer in so clear. With Kipnis up and Davis in second, Davis should have stolen 3rd and Kipnis should have bunted. Davis should have wheeled all the way around to score. They had a chance to do a perfect Major league. And they missed it. WTF.
Not sure they have the crotch grab signal in the book tho
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Not sure they have the crotch grab signal in the book tho
The sign is Kipnis calling his shot.
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I have said as much multiple times on here before.
Yeah, I guess I don't understand the point of the conversation then. If you assume everyone is using PED's, what difference does it make if Arrieta is?
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The sign is Kipnis calling his shot.
Technically that's part of the subterfuge not the signal.
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Yeah, I guess I don't understand the point of the conversation then. If you assume everyone is using PED's, what difference does it make if Arrieta is?
It doesn't. Which is why I responded exactly the same way I responded to the other names thrown around here (Napoli, Garra, Murphy, etc.). The difference is the Cubs fans jumped all over the Arrieta comment and have carried on about it. So like I said, I'm happy to jump into discussions on any athlete. The only player people here have felt the need to carry on a discussion about has been Arrieta, so that's why I've been discussing him.
Want to discuss others? Bring them up and carry on a discussion. Otherwise it ends up like the Murphy name drop. "Is Murphy doping because he suddenly became one of the best hitters in baseball?" My response? "Yes." How is that any different than, "Arrieta should've kept doping." with my response being, "Bingo."
Maybe the Cubs fans just got overly sensitive here? Otherwise we can discuss Murphy, Napoli, Giannis, Clay, Braun, Sosa, or whoever else people would like to discuss. I'm all for it. Throw some names out and let's discuss.
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It doesn't. Which is why I responded exactly the same way I responded to the other names thrown around here (Napoli, Garra, Murphy, etc.). The difference is the Cubs fans jumped all over the Arrieta comment and have carried on about it. So like I said, I'm happy to jump into discussions on any athlete. The only player people here have felt the need to carry on a discussion about has been Arrieta, so that's why I've been discussing him.
Want to discuss others? Bring them up and carry on a discussion. Otherwise it ends up like the Murphy name drop. "Is Murphy doping because he suddenly became one of the best hitters in baseball?" My response? "Yes." How is that any different than, "Arrieta should've kept doping." with my response being, "Bingo."
Maybe the Cubs fans just got overly sensitive here? Otherwise we can discuss Murphy, Napoli, Giannis, Clay, Braun, Sosa, or whoever else people would like to discuss. I'm all for it. Throw some names out and let's discuss.
I've mostly been lurking in this thread, but I think the problem people have with what you've been arguing is that you've set it up that you can't possibly lose. If a guy says he didn't cheat, you can say you don't believe him. If a guy fails a test, you can say I told you so.
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It doesn't. Which is why I responded exactly the same way I responded to the other names thrown around here (Napoli, Garra, Murphy, etc.). The difference is the Cubs fans jumped all over the Arrieta comment and have carried on about it. So like I said, I'm happy to jump into discussions on any athlete. The only player people here have felt the need to carry on a discussion about has been Arrieta, so that's why I've been discussing him.
Want to discuss others? Bring them up and carry on a discussion. Otherwise it ends up like the Murphy name drop. "Is Murphy doping because he suddenly became one of the best hitters in baseball?" My response? "Yes." How is that any different than, "Arrieta should've kept doping." with my response being, "Bingo."
Maybe the Cubs fans just got overly sensitive here? Otherwise we can discuss Murphy, Napoli, Giannis, Clay, Braun, Sosa, or whoever else people would like to discuss. I'm all for it. Throw some names out and let's discuss.
Instead of wasting everyone's time "discussing" it. Let's just do this for reference...
Poster: I don't think (insert name of an athlete) is using PEDs.
wades: Yes, he is.
There. That pretty much ends the Arrieta discussion as well as any and all discussions involving wades and the PED use of athletes.
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It doesn't. Which is why I responded exactly the same way I responded to the other names thrown around here (Napoli, Garra, Murphy, etc.). The difference is the Cubs fans jumped all over the Arrieta comment and have carried on about it. So like I said, I'm happy to jump into discussions on any athlete. The only player people here have felt the need to carry on a discussion about has been Arrieta, so that's why I've been discussing him.
Want to discuss others? Bring them up and carry on a discussion. Otherwise it ends up like the Murphy name drop. "Is Murphy doping because he suddenly became one of the best hitters in baseball?" My response? "Yes." How is that any different than, "Arrieta should've kept doping." with my response being, "Bingo."
Maybe the Cubs fans just got overly sensitive here? Otherwise we can discuss Murphy, Napoli, Giannis, Clay, Braun, Sosa, or whoever else people would like to discuss. I'm all for it. Throw some names out and let's discuss.
What the hell are you saying about Napoli using PEDs? That's crap. Next I suppose you'll say Travis Haffner was doping.
(Just trying to help, Wades)
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I don't recall any of those players going from a garbage pitcher to a historically good pitcher in 1 offseason's time. But I could be wrong there. There's a big difference dropping your ERA by 1 run to dropping your ERA by 4.5 runs at 28 years old. Did those guys go 2 seasons of historical pitching, then vehemently deny any PED use, and then magically his average pitch speeds go back to what they were before he magically became the best pitcher in baseball at 28 years old? If so, we can compare the situations. I'm fairly confident in saying that wasn't the case though.
I just think it's funny that Chicago sports fans get all hot and bothered when someone even considers the possibility that a 28 year old started throwing the ball harder and went from a guy with a career ERA of over 5 to someone who had a couple of the best seasons in the history of baseball in one offseason probably used PEDs, but then cry and scream at every chance that "Oh my gosh an NFL linebacker took HGH! Clay Matthews is such a doper!" There's no doubt in my mind that Clay Matthews took PEDs. BUT if either of Jake Arrieta's rise or Clay Matthews's rise makes sense as "natural" it's without a doubt Clay Matthews. NFL bloodline, developed at 18-20 years old (you know, when athletes actually do develop physically), has been a fairly dominant, but not the greatest football player on the planet. Meanwhile Arrieta is just as jacked up as the OLB that Clay Matthews is and completely stunk until he hit the age of 28 years old, where not only do his statistics suddenly become historically good, but his pitch speeds increase across the board.
Again, no doubt Clay Matthews did PEDs somewhere along the line. But if there's one athlete whose development matches that of someone who did it "naturally" it is certainly not Jake Arrieta. The guy PED'd his ass off. And good for him, it's paid off and he's going to be an even richer man for it. Again, those who don't have an insanely uphill battle in baseball.
Wades, I have no problem with you questioning whether Arrieta is on PEDs. There are certainly some statistics that could suggest it is not natural. But that is not what you are doing. You are not merely "considering the possibility" as you claim in the second paragraph. You have declared that he has in the third paragraph. That's personally what bothers me about your posts on this subject and I think there's where most people have the objection. Then again, I cannot speak for others.
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It doesn't. Which is why I responded exactly the same way I responded to the other names thrown around here (Napoli, Garra, Murphy, etc.). The difference is the Cubs fans jumped all over the Arrieta comment and have carried on about it. So like I said, I'm happy to jump into discussions on any athlete. The only player people here have felt the need to carry on a discussion about has been Arrieta, so that's why I've been discussing him.
Want to discuss others? Bring them up and carry on a discussion. Otherwise it ends up like the Murphy name drop. "Is Murphy doping because he suddenly became one of the best hitters in baseball?" My response? "Yes." How is that any different than, "Arrieta should've kept doping." with my response being, "Bingo."
Maybe the Cubs fans just got overly sensitive here? Otherwise we can discuss Murphy, Napoli, Giannis, Clay, Braun, Sosa, or whoever else people would like to discuss. I'm all for it. Throw some names out and let's discuss.
Wades - if you haven't checked this out yet, I suggest you do so.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jake-arrieta-is-not-your-normal-ace/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jake-arrieta-is-not-your-normal-ace/)
Baseball has been so dirty over the last 30 years, I view every dominant or record-breaking performance with an eye of skepticism. You are absolutely right - the transformation in Arrieta's performance is highly unusual. But at the same time, so is the degree to which his mechanics have changed.
I don't think Cub fans are being overly sensitive about Arrieta and juicing. Rather, I think it's an annoyance that a guy is being definitively branded as a juicer when there is a plausible (though also not definitive) alternative that has been thoroughly observed, measured, and noted.
(That being said, this article was written last year. I would love to see if his regression correlates to additional movement of his release.)
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I don't know who is or isn't on PEDS. Sandy Koufax and Randy Johnson got significantly better with age.
Koufax had a normal progression where he reached his peak in his late 20's. There have been enough studies to show that the age at which Koufax was at his best is the age where historically, the vast majority of players are at their best.
RJ pitched at the height of the steroid era.
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As they say, "The lady doth protest too much."
Yes, she does. Except in this case, you're the lady.
It wasn't in one offseason, it was actually virtually overnight. Look at the difference in 2013:
Orioles: 5 GS, 1-2 Record, 7.23 ERA, 1.775 WHIP, 1.35 K/BB ratio
Cubs: 9 GS, 4-2 record, 3.33 ERA, 1.123 WHIP, 1.54 K/BB ratio
So just changing addresses, he improved his record, ERA, WHIP, and K/BB ratio. He also allowed fewer hits per nine, fewer walks per nine, and averaged more than an additional inning per outing. So either he started juicing and saw instant results, or maybe the coaching had something to do with it.
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Instead of wasting everyone's time "discussing" it. Let's just do this for reference...
Poster: I don't think (insert name of an athlete) is using PEDs.
wades: Yes, he is.
There. That pretty much ends the Arrieta discussion as well as any and all discussions involving wades and the PED use of athletes.
Reading the PED portion of this thread i'm amazed anyone would say a professional athlete wouldn't use EVERY possible advantage and angle he/she could to gain an advantage. By nature, they are super competitive and are constantly in an environment where options are available to them - PED's, opioids, stimulants, alien placenta....whatever. The only realistic defense is personal knowledge or complete homerism.
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Reading the PED portion of this thread i'm amazed anyone would say a professional athlete wouldn't use EVERY possible advantage and angle he/she could to gain an advantage. By nature, they are super competitive and are constantly in an environment where options are available to them - PED's, opioids, stimulants, alien placenta....whatever. The only realistic defense is personal knowledge or complete homerism.
I don't think most mind the discussion, it's the blatant, unquestioned accusation without any rationale or knowledge. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I'm not going to sweat that much over it and I think there's an argument both ways. But it's not like his head size changed three sizes that offseason.
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I don't think most mind the discussion, it's the blatant, unquestioned accusation without any rationale or knowledge. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I'm not going to sweat that much over it and I think there's an argument both ways. But it's not like his head size changed three sizes that offseason.
I understand the opposition to how the conversation was structured. But if you take the conversation out of Chicago for a second and say it was Adrien Peterson a couple of years ago......none of us were there during the knee repair surgery so we don't know the extent of the injury or the exact skill of the repair. Therefore, his recovery could be argued as solely due to a highly skilled surgeon and a super dedicated athlete. Even I, a life long Vikings fan, would say that arguing AD is 'clean' is blind homerism - it was definitely a skilled surgeon and dedicated athlete, but that wasn't all it was (ditto Cutler tonight apparently :D)
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Yes, she does. Except in this case, you're the lady.
It wasn't in one offseason, it was actually virtually overnight. Look at the difference in 2013:
Orioles: 5 GS, 1-2 Record, 7.23 ERA, 1.775 WHIP, 1.35 K/BB ratio
Cubs: 9 GS, 4-2 record, 3.33 ERA, 1.123 WHIP, 1.54 K/BB ratio
So just changing addresses, he improved his record, ERA, WHIP, and K/BB ratio. He also allowed fewer hits per nine, fewer walks per nine, and averaged more than an additional inning per outing. So either he started juicing and saw instant results, or maybe the coaching had something to do with it.
No. Switching leagues and pitching against a bunch of teams who have literally never played against you very well should increase your statistics for the first half of a season to full season. See what Mike Fiers did a few years ago. See what Junior Garra just did. It's what happens when there is no book on you.
But sure, if you want to believe that the Cubs brought in Arrieta and, in the middle of that season, had him entirely change all of his fundamentals that season and he magically figured it out on the fly, more power to you. I'll go ahead and say they didn't make any drastic changes to his mechanics until the offseason between the 2013 and 2014 seasons.
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No. Switching leagues and pitching against a bunch of teams who have literally never played against you very well should increase your statistics for the first half of a season to full season. See what Mike Fiers did a few years ago. See what Junior Garra just did. It's what happens when there is no book on you.
But sure, if you want to believe that the Cubs brought in Arrieta and, in the middle of that season, had him entirely change all of his fundamentals that season and he magically figured it out on the fly, more power to you. I'll go ahead and say they didn't make any drastic changes to his mechanics until the offseason between the 2013 and 2014 seasons.
Except you'd be wrong, yet again. Arrieta spent time in the minors after the trade to start the adjustment process.
Not to mention the development of his "slutter" has played a large part in his success. A pitch he did not use during his time in Baltimore.
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Except you'd be wrong, yet again. Arrieta spent time in the minors after the trade to start the adjustment process.
Not to mention the development of his "slutter" has played a large part in his success. A pitch he did not use during his time in Baltimore.
Sorry, I trusted that a Cubs fan was providing accurate information in saying that he went from sucking in Baltimore one day to kicking ass in Chicago the next.
Yes, she does. Except in this case, you're the lady.
It wasn't in one offseason, it was actually virtually overnight. Look at the difference in 2013:
Orioles: 5 GS, 1-2 Record, 7.23 ERA, 1.775 WHIP, 1.35 K/BB ratio
Cubs: 9 GS, 4-2 record, 3.33 ERA, 1.123 WHIP, 1.54 K/BB ratio
So just changing addresses, he improved his record, ERA, WHIP, and K/BB ratio. He also allowed fewer hits per nine, fewer walks per nine, and averaged more than an additional inning per outing. So either he started juicing and saw instant results, or maybe the coaching had something to do with it.
So there was definitely some time for him between being in Baltimore and being in the majors to receive some...treatment...
Weird.
Anyway, I'll stick to a guy having a career (did you miss it again? I bolded it for you. CAREER) ERA of well over 5 to suddenly cutting that in less than half at the young, blossoming age of 28 in a game where just about every player has been using banned substances of some sort for decades and decades was probably using PEDs.
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Sorry, I trusted that a Cubs fan was providing accurate information in saying that he went from sucking in Baltimore one day to kicking ass in Chicago the next.
So there was definitely some time for him between being in Baltimore and being in the majors to receive some...treatment...
Weird.
Anyway, I'll stick to a guy having a career (did you miss it again? I bolded it for you. CAREER) ERA of well over 5 to suddenly cutting that in less than half at the young, blossoming age of 28 in a game where just about every player has been using banned substances of some sort for decades and decades was probably using PEDs.
Or you know, it's baseball. Players have breakout years and then go back into the unknown all the time. Ride the hot hand.
Can we get off this pointless topic and talk real baseball again? Like make another thread for this crap, just like the logos.
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Or you know, it's baseball. Players have breakout years and then go back into the unknown all the time. Ride the hot hand.
Can we get off this pointless topic and talk real baseball again? Like make another thread for this crap, just like the logos.
Can't recall anybody else who has been bad up until they're 28 and then suddenly the best at their position with a historical run. But if you say it happens all the time it must be so!
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Can't recall anybody else who has been bad up until they're 28 and then suddenly the best at their position with a historical run. But if you say it happens all the time it must be so!
Okay...my wife would say you're getting into reruns. We already covered this:
No one is saying it's completely common, but it's hardly unprecedented.
.
- Dave Stewart had a 30-35 record when he was traded to the Oakland A's at age 29. In the next 5 seasons, he posted a 93-40 record while winning 20 games in 4 straight years.
- Randy Johnson had a 56-61 record after 7 seasons in the bigs. At age 29, he erupted as a dominant pitcher, going 19-8 that season enroute to 303 career wins.
- Dazzy Vance had an 0-4 career record when he signed with Brooklyn at age 31 way back in 1922. He went on to record 197 wins, including going 28-6 with a 2.16 ERA and 262 strikeouts in 1924 to win the pitching Triple Crown.
- Jamie Moyer was 59-76 at age 32 when suddenly he found his stuff, and from ages 33-40 went 126-56.
.
Joe Nathan, Curt Davis, Hoyt Wilhelm, R.A. Dickey, Sandy Koufax, baseball has plenty of pitchers who didn't blossom until they were in their mid-20s or even into their 30s. It's easy to say steroids, but many of these guys became great pitchers after a change in scenery, similar to what Arrieta went through.
I'm not saying it's definitively not steroids. I don't think it is, but I don't truly know. But even if he keeps this up for the next 10 years, it wouldn't be unprecedented (Johnson pitched at an elite level into his 40s) and it wouldn't be definitively indicative of anything other than him being a great pitcher.
It doesn't happen every day, but it seems like about 1-2 times per decade, a guy comes along that blossoms late to become a dominant pitcher. These are guys from different eras, different circumstances, but similar results. You can keep repeating this "historic improvement that never happened before" line of complete BS, but just remember as you type it, it is complete BS. You are making it up and historical precedent shows you are making it up.
Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. But there is absolutely no way you can definitively say it, so please, for all our sakes, just drop it already. It's a tired, circular argument and you haven't made one micrometer of progress by asserting the same things without a shred of evidence.
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Can't recall anybody else who has been bad up until they're 28 and then suddenly the best at their position with a historical run. But if you say it happens all the time it must be so!
Except, you know, that didn't happen. I don't know why I continue to bother with this aside from being astounded by the idiocy.
I guess Arrieta continued to juice in April and May of this year when he had a 1.56 ERA and then decided to get clean, even though there was no change in velocity. And again, the 2-4 MPH change in velocity you claimed never existed. Bit don't let facts get in the way.
I wonder if you'd have the ⚾️⚾️⚾️⚾️ to say any of this to Arrieta's face. I already know the answer, of course.
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Except, you know, that didn't happen. I don't know why I continue to bother with this aside from being astounded by the idiocy.
I guess Arrieta continued to juice in April and May of this year when he had a 1.56 ERA and then decided to get clean, even though there was no change in velocity. And again, the 2-4 MPH change in velocity you claimed never existed. Bit don't let facts get in the way.
I wonder if you'd have the ⚾️⚾️⚾️⚾️ to say any of this to Arrieta's face. I already know the answer, of course.
What would Jake Arietta do? Lol. Has he beat the snot out of the reporters who have said it to his face already?
I don't think anybody wants someone who's been bulking up on PEDs to hit them. But from what I understand Jake's never done that? Despite being asked the question many times, to his face? I don't know what you think would happen. But okay? Lol.
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What would Jake Arietta do? Lol. Has he beat the snot out of the reporters who have said it to his face already?
I don't think anybody wants someone who's been bulking up on PEDs to hit them. But from what I understand Jake's never done that? Despite being asked the question many times, to his face? I don't know what you think would happen. But okay? Lol.
My point didn't have anything to do with anything physical. Not sure why your mind went there. That's not who Arrieta is. I just don't think you're enough of a man to question someone's integrity and all they've worked for to their face.
Keep on ignoring your false claims on the velo increase. And all of the information that would lead someone to logically conclude he's likely clean.
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Back to the series.....I think Jake pitches well and the Cubs get to Tomlin a bit on short rest and force a game 7.
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My point didn't have anything to do with anything physical. Not sure why your mind went there. That's not who Arrieta is. I just don't think you're enough of a man to question someone's integrity and all they've worked for to their face.
Keep on ignoring your false claims on the velo increase. And all of the information that would lead someone to logically conclude he's likely clean.
Lol. So you can't have say that gun violence in Chicago is an issue unless you're willing to go out and find some of the highest profile gang leaders in Chicago and have a sit down with them to discuss your concerns on the issue? You can't have an issue with ISIS unless you're willing to find their leader and tell him/her to his/her face that what they're doing is a horrible thing? Only real men with big brass balls can stand up and do that!
I got it now. :o
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Lol. So you can't have say that gun violence in Chicago is an issue unless you're willing to go out and find some of the highest profile gang leaders in Chicago and have a sit down with them to discuss your concerns on the issue? You can't have an issue with ISIS unless you're willing to find their leader and tell him/her to his/her face that what they're doing is a horrible thing? Only real men with big brass balls can stand up and do that!
I got it now. :o
Wow. You're a piece of work.
Also, do you actually lol when you type lol?
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Wow. You're a piece of work.
Also, do you actually lol when you type lol?
Yes.
I think I found you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2AHvAOKzkk
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Hey, how 'bout that World Series?
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Hey, how 'bout that World Series?
I heard the cubs are gonna win it!
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Hey, how 'bout that World Series?
Go Tribe.
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Yes.
I think I found you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2AHvAOKzkk
I'm not sure which one fits you better. Probably a combination of both.
(http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt156/dlc123/giant-douche-and-turd-sandwich.jpg)
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I heard the cubs are gonna win it!
You heard correctly.
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Back to the series.....I think Jake pitches well and the Cubs get to Tomlin a bit on short rest and force a game 7.
I'm really hoping that limiting Tomlin to 58 pitches in Game 3 will ameliorate the short rest situation. This one worries me because Arrieta was so strong in Game 2. And, as we all know, once you get to Game 7, anything can happen.
I'm hoping Tomlin will pitch well and the Indians will close it out tonight. I think it will be another low scoring affair. Hopefully the crowd can spur the Indians and they'll get a couple runs early.
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I'm really hoping that limiting Tomlin to 58 pitches in Game 3 will ameliorate the short rest situation. This one worries me because Arrieta was so strong in Game 2. And, as we all know, once you get to Game 7, anything can happen.
I'm hoping Tomlin will pitch well and the Indians will close it out tonight. I think it will be another low scoring affair. Hopefully the crowd can spur the Indians and they'll get a couple runs early.
Feels like early runs are going to be key either way. The stats this postseason back that up strongly (and we all know that past performance guarantees future results).
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Interesting article on Arrieta and some of his struggles this year.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-cubs-season-depends-on-jake-arrietas-slider/
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Why don't you two get a room at the Sybaris. I'm sure Lenny and Chicos will loan you the time share they have there. ;D
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If you think that basically every pro athlete is on PEDs then what's the point in arguing about one specific player ad nauseam? Why such outrage over one player's statistical improvement if you think that nearly everyone is also cheating? Could it perhaps be related to the team for whom he plays? I mean, Mike Napoli had career highs in HR and RBI at age 34. I don't think he's juiced up. Where's your Mike Napoli outrage?
FWIW, Napoli's OPS this season was lower than his career number. He had career highs in HRs and RBI's because he had career high in ABs and batted clean-up rather than further down the order like he did most of his career. He basically had the season you would have expected. No major spike in performance. Not saying he doesn't take PEDs, just saying his numbers are in line with what you would expect given the opportunities he got this season.
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Koufax had a normal progression where he reached his peak in his late 20's. There have been enough studies to show that the age at which Koufax was at his best is the age where historically, the vast majority of players are at their best.
RJ pitched at the height of the steroid era.
Koufax became Koufax when the Dodgers moved into Dodger Stadium with its ridiculously high mound. Prior to that he had been pitching in some great hitters parks in Brooklyn and in the old park in LA where they used to do Home Run Derby.
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Why don't you two get a room at the Sybaris. I'm sure Lenny and Chicos will loan you the time share they have there. ;D
We actually own the room outright - but since his unfortunate banning it rarely gets used. We currently have it on airbnb and VRBO. Discounts for Scoopers of all political and sexual persuasions. No pets.
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I'm really hoping that limiting Tomlin to 58 pitches in Game 3 will ameliorate the short rest situation. This one worries me because Arrieta was so strong in Game 2. And, as we all know, once you get to Game 7, anything can happen.
I'm hoping Tomlin will pitch well and the Indians will close it out tonight. I think it will be another low scoring affair. Hopefully the crowd can spur the Indians and they'll get a couple runs early.
Sorry to break it to you but my brother-in-law is going to the game tonight and that S.O.B could curse a baby shower.
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We actually own the room outright - but since his unfortunate banning it rarely gets used. We currently have it on airbnb and VRBO. Discounts for Scoopers of all political and sexual persuasions. No pets.
You should have said "no live animals".
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Why don't you two get a room at the Sybaris. I'm sure Lenny and Chicos will loan you the time share they have there. ;D
Only if the room has a hot tub slide in it.
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Just thought I'd mention something about the Cubs. I've been laid up recovering from a kidney transplant (I highly recommend Yale if you ever have to do something like that), and I've watched pretty much every inning of playoff game since during most of the playoffs I wasn't able to do much but rest. I have been working some from home the past few weeks, but this week is my first back in the office (today is 5 weeks since the transplant.)
At any rate, whoever is responsible for defensive positioning for the Cubs is amazing. Throughout the playoffs, I have been very impressed by the number of hard hit balls by the Cubs opposition that have been hit right at someone. Their pitchers rightly get a lot of credit because they are good, but besides being good defensive players, that team seems to be in the right place all the time. I think that gives a big boost to the low ERAs their started have. As an American League fan, I haven't seen the Cubs much during the season, but is that the norm or have the playoffs been unusual?
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Just thought I'd mention something about the Cubs. I've been laid up recovering from a kidney transplant (I highly recommend Yale if you ever have to do something like that), and I've watched pretty much every inning of playoff game since during most of the playoffs I wasn't able to do much but rest. I have been working some from home the past few weeks, but this week is my first back in the office (today is 5 weeks since the transplant.)
At any rate, whoever is responsible for defensive positioning for the Cubs is amazing. Throughout the playoffs, I have been very impressed by the number of hard hit balls by the Cubs opposition that have been hit right at someone. Their pitchers rightly get a lot of credit because they are good, but besides being good defensive players, that team seems to be in the right place all the time. I think that gives a big boost to the low ERAs their started have. As an American League fan, I haven't seen the Cubs much during the season, but is that the norm or have the playoffs been unusual?
It's been the norm throughout the season. According to Fangraphs they had by far the highest defensive runs saved in baseball at 82 (the Astros were second at 51).
They don't shift a ton but the positioning has been very good. They also have some naturally gifted defensive players and versatility.
Their staff also does an excellent job at inducing soft contact, which contributes to the very low BABIP.
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Just thought I'd mention something about the Cubs. I've been laid up recovering from a kidney transplant (I highly recommend Yale if you ever have to do something like that), and I've watched pretty much every inning of playoff game since during most of the playoffs I wasn't able to do much but rest. I have been working some from home the past few weeks, but this week is my first back in the office (today is 5 weeks since the transplant.)
At any rate, whoever is responsible for defensive positioning for the Cubs is amazing. Throughout the playoffs, I have been very impressed by the number of hard hit balls by the Cubs opposition that have been hit right at someone. Their pitchers rightly get a lot of credit because they are good, but besides being good defensive players, that team seems to be in the right place all the time. I think that gives a big boost to the low ERAs their started have. As an American League fan, I haven't seen the Cubs much during the season, but is that the norm or have the playoffs been unusual?
And glad to hear your surgery went well!
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Here's to a speedy recovery CTWarrior!
Prediction time!
Unfortunately, I think the Indians are going to get it done tonight. I like Schwarber hitting #2 and hope his magic continues but I'm afraid that there are just too many cold bats for the Cubs. Game 5 was a lot of fun, but looking at it closer, the Cubs had 5 of their 7 hits in one inning and did basically nothing otherwise. It should be another low-scoring game and I hope Arrieta is on tonight but I just think Tomlin and his curveball will do enough to get it to the bullpen - wouldn't surprise me to see Miller and Allen go the final 4+ innings tonight if Cleveland has a lead.
Indians 3, Cubs 1
That said, if the Cubs win tonight...Game 7: Cubs 10, Indians 8 ;)
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Here's to a speedy recovery CTWarrior!
Prediction time!
Unfortunately, I think the Indians are going to get it done tonight. I like Schwarber hitting #2 and hope his magic continues but I'm afraid that there are just too many cold bats for the Cubs. Game 5 was a lot of fun, but looking at it closer, the Cubs had 5 of their 7 hits in one inning and did basically nothing otherwise. It should be another low-scoring game and I hope Arrieta is on tonight but I just think Tomlin and his curveball will do enough to get it to the bullpen - wouldn't surprise me to see Miller and Allen go the final 4+ innings tonight if Cleveland has a lead.
Indians 3, Cubs 1
That said, if the Cubs win tonight...Game 7: Cubs 10, Indians 8 ;)
(https://m.popkey.co/9c4307/EjyxD.gif)
Cubs get to Tomlin early and win 5-2, forcing an insane game 7.
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You should have said "no live animals".
C'mon, chili, you're making me feel worse and worse about myself. Don't bring me down in what once was my only 'safe space".
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Koufax became Koufax when the Dodgers moved into Dodger Stadium with its ridiculously high mound. Prior to that he had been pitching in some great hitters parks in Brooklyn and in the old park in LA where they used to do Home Run Derby.
This would be a good point ... if it were true.
Koufax was still nothing special the first several years in L.A. For example, in 1960 (the Dodgers' third season in L.A. and his sixth as a big-leaguer), he was 8-13 with a 3.91 ERA, 197 strikeouts and 100 walks. Even the following year, when he went 18-13, he had a 3.52 ERA and walked 96.
It was when he realized that he didn't have to throw the baseball a bazillion mph on every pitch and learned how to pitch rather than throw that he truly became the Koufax of baseball lore.
In his final 5 seasons (1962-66), Koufax went 111-34 with a 1.95 ERA and a .0926 WHIP. Yes, the high mound had much to do with it, and yes so did pitcher-friendly Dodger Stadium, but none of the other Dodger pitchers (not even Drysdale) were putting up Koufax's insane numbers. Mostly, it was his ability to harness his incredible stuff that made him what we all think of when we talk about Koufax. He averaged only 63 walks in an average of 275 IP those last 5 years.
P.S.: Glad your kidney transplant went well. I wish you a full, speedy recovery, my fellow Nutmeg Stater!
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This would be a good point ... if it were true.
Koufax was still nothing special the first several years in L.A. For example, in 1960 (the Dodgers' third season in L.A. and his sixth as a big-leaguer), he was 8-13 with a 3.91 ERA, 197 strikeouts and 100 walks. Even the following year, when he went 18-13, he had a 3.52 ERA and walked 96.
It was when he realized that he didn't have to throw the baseball a bazillion mph on every pitch and learned how to pitch rather than throw that he truly became the Koufax of baseball lore.
In his final 5 seasons (1962-66), Koufax went 111-34 with a 1.95 ERA and a .0926 WHIP. Yes, the high mound had much to do with it, and yes so did pitcher-friendly Dodger Stadium, but none of the other Dodger pitchers (not even Drysdale) were putting up Koufax's insane numbers. Mostly, it was his ability to harness his incredible stuff that made him what we all think of when we talk about Koufax. He averaged only 63 walks in an average of 275 IP those last 5 years.
P.S.: Glad your kidney transplant went well. I wish you a full, speedy recovery, my fellow Nutmeg Stater!
Bullcrap. PEDs
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C'mon, chili, you're making me feel worse and worse about myself. Don't bring me down in what once was my only 'safe space".
Lenny, just looking out for you. If you weren't that specific, who knows what ZFB or 'Never would show up with.
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I think the warm weather could help the Cubs' cold bats. As a team, they're oddly better able to take advantage of AL rules than Cleveland due to Schwarber.
I don't know what happens tonight, and any pick I make will be colored by my fandom. I just want a game 7 and something to watch tomorrow.
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Lenny, just looking out for you. If you weren't that specific, who knows what ZFB or 'Never would show up with.
LOL - good point.
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Good start, though runners on is where the Cubs have struggled. One run is good, but they need to do damage before Miller comes in.
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Wow, what a mistake. :o
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Me likeee
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Pretty sophisticated, eh ^^^^^
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This is going well
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Big being able to hand Arrieta a three run lead. Hope he's dialed in. And man, Baez makes it look so easy out there.
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Si
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Lindor is juicing.....his do. ;D
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Just wonderful.
Crowd sound more Cubs than injuns.
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Just wonderful.
Crowd sound more Cubs than injuns.
I thought the the same when Russell drilled that grand slam. If the Cubs hold on, I hope Arrieta can go deep and spare the pen.
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That drum beat is kinda odd. Perhaps in person it has more "ambiance ".
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Tiger fan wants to warn that Cleveland is hard to put away.
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I really hope we don't see Chapman brought in for no reason.
Up by 5 in the seventh? Sorry, but what the f___?
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Play for tonight. Don't worry about tomorrow.
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Play for tonight. Don't worry about tomorrow.
Yep.
Lester has 7 and 8 tomorrow if necessary
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CT Warrior...cheers to good health, all the best.
Why is Chapman in this game???
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Maddon makes some baffling decisions.
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The Chapman decision ultimately worked fine. Had he pitched a 4-out save with 20 pitches, no one would be questioning his availability. He'll be fine if they need him.
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Damn, now here I am all invested again. Tomorrow will be nervy.
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Cubolawubola.
Damn.
Go Cubs go, go Cubs go....
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Uno para ir
(http://wischlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/marla.jpg)
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Wrigleyville tomorrow boys!
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Some very questionable decisions by Joe tonight. It worked out.
Tomorrow is going to be insane.
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Uno para ir
(http://wischlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/marla.jpg)
Marla, ahhhh.
I gave her a Whopper once....
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Marla....
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I'm watching the secondary market for tickets to Hamilton for tonight. Figured there may never be a cheaper night than tonight to go.
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This would be a good point ... if it were true.
Koufax was still nothing special the first several years in L.A. For example, in 1960 (the Dodgers' third season in L.A. and his sixth as a big-leaguer), he was 8-13 with a 3.91 ERA, 197 strikeouts and 100 walks. Even the following year, when he went 18-13, he had a 3.52 ERA and walked 96.
It was when he realized that he didn't have to throw the baseball a bazillion mph on every pitch and learned how to pitch rather than throw that he truly became the Koufax of baseball lore.
In his final 5 seasons (1962-66), Koufax went 111-34 with a 1.95 ERA and a .0926 WHIP. Yes, the high mound had much to do with it, and yes so did pitcher-friendly Dodger Stadium, but none of the other Dodger pitchers (not even Drysdale) were putting up Koufax's insane numbers. Mostly, it was his ability to harness his incredible stuff that made him what we all think of when we talk about Koufax. He averaged only 63 walks in an average of 275 IP those last 5 years.
P.S.: Glad your kidney transplant went well. I wish you a full, speedy recovery, my fellow Nutmeg Stater!
Except they didn't play in Dodger Stadium in 1960 and 1961. They moved into Dodger Stadium in 1962, which is exactly when his career took off. Those last 5 years are exactly the 5 years he pitched in Dodger Stadium. They played in the LA Memorial Coliseum before that, which due to odd configuration was an excellent hitters park.
Dodgers ERA in LAMC (59-62): 3.93
Dodgers ERA in Dodger Stadium (62-66): 2.97
Dodgers OPS in LAMC (59-62): .725
Dodgers OPS in Dodger Stadium (52-66): .674
The point is that Koufax was better than he was given credit for earlier in his career because he pitched in a great hitters environment, and not as good as he is given credit for his last five years because he pitched in one of the best pitchers parks in history. His spike in performance was real, but not as pronounced as the raw statistics make it seem.
Thanks for your well wishes.
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I'm watching the secondary market for tickets to Hamilton for tonight. Figured there may never be a cheaper night than tonight to go.
I didn't think of this...but the hawks tickets on Cubs game nights seemed to be super cheap the past couple weeks! This actually might work out for you. Brilliant idea!
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The Chapman decision ultimately worked fine. Had he pitched a 4-out save with 20 pitches, no one would be questioning his availability. He'll be fine if they need him.
Initially, I thought it was a strange decision but I've come around to thinking it made sense.
1) You're up 5 runs, there's 2 on, 2 out with their best hitter up and the heart of the order to follow. Bring in your best pitcher, shut the door and keep the lead right where it is.
2) Chapman is a rental player who was brought in as the "missing piece" to a potential champion. Use him. He's not going to be back with the Cubs next season. What are you saving him for? He only threw 20 pitches. He did that in about one-third of his outings this season. He'll be fine for tonight.
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Well damn...I really hoped the Indians could close it out last night. It certainly wasn't Tomlin's best night. Even the guys he got out in that first inning hit the ball pretty hard. The most troubling thing to me, as an Indians fan, is that the Cubs bats seem to have heated up.
Should be a heck of a Game 7. If you would have told me at the start that for Game 7 the Indians would have Kluber on the hill, Miller on three days rest and Shaw and Allen on two days rest, I'd have taken it. Not sure if it'll be enough to get it done, but given the injuries the Indians have had on their pitching staff, it's pretty much the best set up they could have possibly hoped for.
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The fabled decline of football must predicate itself upon the simplicity it shares not with the transcendent complexity of the other great sports which with irregular recurrence manifests onto the visible spectrum in what the most humble revere and refer to as a "Game 7."
Piffle, or not piffle?
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Well damn...I really hoped the Indians could close it out last night. It certainly wasn't Tomlin's best night. Even the guys he got out in that first inning hit the ball pretty hard. The most troubling thing to me, as an Indians fan, is that the Cubs bats seem to have heated up.
Should be a heck of a Game 7. If you would have told me at the start that for Game 7 the Indians would have Kluber on the hill, Miller on three days rest and Shaw and Allen on two days rest, I'd have taken it. Not sure if it'll be enough to get it done, but given the injuries the Indians have had on their pitching staff, it's pretty much the best set up they could have possibly hoped for.
The games have gone how I thought they would with the exception of game 3, which I thought the Cubs would win (So I thought the Cubs would take the series 4 games to 2). Tonight depends on what Kluber has left in the tank. He needs to give them 5 or 6 innings and 1 run. I normally would worry about Hendricks given his relative inexperience but he hasn't appeared to be phased by much of anything so far.
I think tonight is a toss-up but momentum is on Cubs side. Cubs 3, Indians 1. My son is a die hard Indians fan so I'll be rooting that I got this wrong.
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Yep.
Lester has 7 and 8 tomorrow if necessary
Lester, Lackey, and probably Arrieta are available tonight, as well as Chapman. I think Lester goes full Bumgarner this evening.
Yesterday I heard that teams which force a Game 7 win 70% of the time.
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I'm watching the secondary market for tickets to Hamilton for tonight. Figured there may never be a cheaper night than tonight to go.
Catch game 7 tonight and see Hamilton in the summer. Tons of tickets still available at face.
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The games have gone how I thought they would with the exception of game 3, which I thought the Cubs would win (So I thought the Cubs would take the series 4 games to 2). Tonight depends on what Kluber has left in the tank. He needs to give them 5 or 6 innings and 1 run. I normally would worry about Hendricks given his relative inexperience but he hasn't appeared to be phased by much of anything so far.
I think tonight is a toss-up but momentum is on Cubs side. Cubs 3, Indians 1. My son is a die hard Indians fan so I'll be rooting that I got this wrong.
Both teams would LOVE for their starter to at least get into the 5th with, at worst, the game tied. Cleveland could easily get 4+ innings out of Shaw, Miller and Allen while Lester and Chapman could do the same for the Cubs.
It should be a fun night!
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The Chapman decision ultimately worked fine. Had he pitched a 4-out save with 20 pitches, no one would be questioning his availability. He'll be fine if they need him.
See Brew strange things can happen. Good Luck tonight.
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One more win. We got this.
(http://sportsmockery.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/18j5wrs880077jpg.jpg)
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/KKcy1NY-pWtKnSIaOmPtlWGD0yU=/9x0:3613x2403/1310x873/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/45716666/1297755.0.0.jpg)
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Going to old crow in wrigleyville for the game. Anyone else going?
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Going to old crow in wrigleyville for the game. Anyone else going?
Gman's.
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The games have gone how I thought they would with the exception of game 3, which I thought the Cubs would win (So I thought the Cubs would take the series 4 games to 2). Tonight depends on what Kluber has left in the tank. He needs to give them 5 or 6 innings and 1 run. I normally would worry about Hendricks given his relative inexperience but he hasn't appeared to be phased by much of anything so far.
I think tonight is a toss-up but momentum is on Cubs side. Cubs 3, Indians 1. My son is a die hard Indians fan so I'll be rooting that I got this wrong.
Obviously, I'm hoping he is strong. He's had pretty low pitch counts his last three starts (89, 88 and 81), so I hope that helps him.
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I live a 15 minute walk north of Clark and Addison. Will be watching at home with friends but will certainly take a walk down there if things go well for the northside nine. Go Cubs.
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Going to old crow in wrigleyville for the game. Anyone else going?
I've been at Irish Oak across the street since 11.
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Gman's.
solid, I was thinking Irish oak or old crow. If we win follow the sound of bagpipes!
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You could probably fire a cannon on the Kennedy at 7:30 tonight and not hit anyone.
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I think it will be good for MU if the Cubs win.
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I've been at Irish Oak across the street since 11.
And ya can still type, hey?
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I think it will be good for MU if the Cubs Bulls win.
FIFY
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Obviously, I'm hoping he is strong. He's had pretty low pitch counts his last three starts (89, 88 and 81), so I hope that helps him.
My brother-in-law doesn't have tickets for tonight so his curse won't be in play - congrats on the W.
I think it will be good for MU if the Cubs win.
About as good as the Royals win was for Creighton.
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And ya can still type, hey?
Held off on my first drink til about 2. Want to be somewhat coherent during the game.
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Beginning pregame activities now.
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See Brew strange things can happen. Good Luck tonight.
I'm glad they went down 3-1. Got the nerves out, I'm just enjoying this.
Edit: From down 3-1 in the series to up 3-1 in game 7. Damn them for getting my hopes back up.
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I'm channeling my inner Jim Hickman.
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Holy smokes they're gonna do it.
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It might be....
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Might not have mattered, but not a great night for Tito. No way Kluber should have started 5th.
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Might not have mattered, but not a great night for Tito. No way Kluber should have started 5th.
Amen. Inexplicable.
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Might not have mattered, but not a great night for Tito. No way Kluber should have started 5th.
Conversely, I hope Hendricks doesn't get pulled now. Errors are why he gave up a run. Let him keep going. You don't have to do to Lester next.
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I'm channeling my inner Milt Pappas.
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What a clusterefff
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I think the Cubs still pull this out, but between the balls/strikes being called, managing, and Cubs defense, this has been a mess.
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That...was cool.
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That...was cool.
Want the Indians to win...but I like Ross.
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Time to bring in Big Lee Smifff. Aspirin tablets. Powder River. ;D
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I'm channeling my inner Joey Amalphitano.
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The oldest player to ever hit a home run in the World Series is 25 days younger than me. I guess that finally closes the door on my pro athletics career.
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The oldest player to ever hit a home run in the World Series is 25 days younger than me. I guess that finally closes the door on my pro athletics career.
No, the oldest player to hit a home run in game 7 of the World Series.
I must say that the stats nerds have been working overtime over at Fox Sports.
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The oldest player to ever hit a home run in the World Series is 25 days younger than me. I guess that finally closes the door on my pro athletics career.
That's rough. I'm about a month and a half older than LeBron, and he's got 3 rings to my 0, but at least I've still got a few years left to close the gap.
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Rick Reuschel would have been safe.
World's fastest fat guy. Hell of a hitter too.
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Time to send in Bill Hands.
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Anyone remember 1997 when the Indians' untouchable closer blew the save?
Crossing my fingers.
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Anyone remember 1997 when the Indians' untouchable closer blew the save?
Crossing my fingers.
Hats off. You called it.
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Tiger fan wants to warn that Cleveland is hard to put away.
Nothing. Just sayin........
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This is all on Maddon. Took Hendricks out too early, took Lester out too early. Not many bullets left in the bullpen.
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Maddon = Bartman?
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Need some major mojo. Channeling my inner Don Kessinger.
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Need some major mojo. Channeling my inner Don Kessinger.
Need the Ghost of Cubbies Past here.
(http://www.vintagecardprices.com/pics/1838/20/166397.jpg)
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Short rainfall in Cleveland. Major rain in about 45 minutes.
Channeling my inner John Milan.
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Why channel the ghosts of a bunch of guys who never won? Channel the ghosts of Tinkers, Evers, and Chance.
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Need the Ghost of Cubbies Past here.
(http://www.vintagecardprices.com/pics/1838/20/166397.jpg)
Older card....have him at first.
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Why channel the ghosts of a bunch of guys who never won? Channel the ghosts of Tinkers, Evers, and Chance.
This angelic spirit shows Scrooge scenes from his past that occurred on or around Christmas, in order to demonstrate to him the necessity of changing his ways, as well as to show the reader how Scrooge came to be a bitter, cold-hearted miser.
In other words, we need a slump buster.
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Maddon = Bartman?
No, because this is actually Joe's fault.
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Need a seeing eye base hit.
Or a Texas leaguer.
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I have no clue what Joe Maddon is doing. None.
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I have no clue what Joe Maddon is doing. None.
He's overthinking.
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Now...it's time to channel my inner Ernie.
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Need the Ghost of Cubbies Past here.
(http://www.vintagecardprices.com/pics/1838/20/166397.jpg)
I think you summoned a double header.
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Go to sleep. Ain't finishing tonight, folks.
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This is a short blip. Heavier stuff passing though Fremont, not far out from Sandusky. Get a run here and we got it.
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Going to bed. This will finish tomorrow night.
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Time to cut away to a rerun of Hogan's Heros do Harry can pound a few.
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He's overthinking.
Joe is a great baseball man who sometimes can't resist the urge to over manage. Tonight is a perfect example of playing mad scientist when he didn't have to.
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WTF are they doing... there's a major cell about 30 mins out. Radar shows a big ball of orange and red on Toledo right now.
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Need a run. Rain soon to take over Port Clinton and Put-In-Bay.
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WTF are they doing... there's a major cell about 30 mins out. Radar shows a big ball of orange and red on Toledo right now.
Joe West wants to make the late night buffet
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Looks to be finishing tonight.
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I'm not sure why Shaw came back out after the delay.
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Jason Heyward gets a ring, but a badly constructed one. Like some of the littler diamonds fall out and they spell his name "Haywood."
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It might be....
....It could be....
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I'm not sure why Shaw came back out after the delay.
Agreed, I said the same to my wife. 9 pitches wasn't the issue, the big layoff was.
Good news, the Cubs haven't blown a multi run lead in Game 7 of the World Series in about an hour.
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Poor Tower went to bed.
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Rookie to close it. Nbd
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Poor Tower went to bed.
Still here. As the Cubs change pitchers again, it may be time to check where the rain is. The red stuff has passed Sandusky.
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My spinchter is twitching.
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One freaking out away from winning the World Series, yet one swing away from losing it. Can't be easy for the Cubs.
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And...... done.
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Holy Cow. That's all. Holy Cow.
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Hey hey, holy makarel.....
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Let's play two....
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Damn.
Doesn't sting as bad as '97 though, because the Cubs were the better team. The Indians almost Marlined them. So, so close.
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Let's play two....
Let's drink two!
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This ones for you Nana and grandfather
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The Indians were fantastic. I get that the Cubs won 103, but Cleveland has a great team.
For me, this began in 1988. I was a big WWF fan & convinced my parents to get cable so we could buy the Summerslam pay per view. With that came WGN and Harry Caray broadcasting the Cubs every day, back before the local Brewers were easily accessible.
I watched them every day. Teams anchored by Sandburg, Dunston, Grace, Maddux...I am a Milwaukee native, but the Cubs have been my team for 28 years. This is incredible. So happy to witness this.
Only two titles left I really need to see. Marquette National Champions and U.S.A. World Cup. Time for those two to step up. If the Cubs can do it, no one else has any excuses.
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That's as memorable game as any I've seen, congrats Cubs fans.
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CUBBBBBIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://youtu.be/iQWbKqFVoeQ
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I hope it doesn't get lost in history, but Almora won that game tonight. That's as clutch of a heads up play as you'll ever see. Props to him, part of why I love baseball, plays like that win championships.
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Parade Friday or Monday
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Is this the best game of all time? Serious question that is so subjective.
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Is this the best game of all time? Serious question that is so subjective.
It has to be up there. Gibson's home run was always the go to answer, but this did have it all. Not sure what else you could ask for. Clutch hitting on both sides, pitchers both made to look vulnerable (Kluber, Miller, Chapman) and exemplary. Big lead, big rally, extra innings. Two great teams, really too bad someone had to lose.
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Is this the best game of all time? Serious question that is so subjective.
As a Yankee fan the game last night has to be one of the best, but the game the Mets played against Houston is hard to beat.
http://sabr.org/research/greatest-game-ever-played-october-15-1986
Congratulations to all the Cub fans, a really fun season.
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I hope it doesn't get lost in history, but Almora won that game tonight. That's as clutch of a heads up play as you'll ever see. Props to him, part of why I love baseball, plays like that win championships.
The refusal of most players to take an extra base on plays like this has always been my pet peeve. Managers sacrifice outs to move players up a base, but then don't tell players to take an extra base when it is there for the taking.
Props to a young guy for making a good baserunning play.
And part of what makes Fangraph's so good ----
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-moment-before-the-moment/
"Albert Almora isn’t the hero. He didn’t make the biggest hit, nor did he make the biggest play. He’s one of few Cubs who might have to say who they are if they want a free drink. Given all the moments from an unforgettable Game 7, some moments will have to be forgotten; some will just slip through the cracks. Maybe, some months from now, they won’t be talking about the one-out tag-up. But that was the moment that set up the Moment, the moment the Cubs’ fortunes started to turn. Kris Bryant might’ve just missed a pitch he wanted to hit, but thanks to a good read and aggressive baserunning, Bryant’s fly out still put the Cubs on course for a World Series title. They say that it had been a few years."
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Wow. Overnights: 25.2 rating for Nov 2, 2016 8pm-1am ET #WorldSeries #Game7 (est. 38-42M Viewers on Fox)
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Short rainfall in Cleveland. Major rain in about 45 minutes.
Channeling my inner John Milan.
Just don't go all Sally Severson on us, hey?
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I still can't believe it.
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As a Yankee fan the game last night has to be one of the best, but the game the Mets played against Houston is hard to beat.
http://sabr.org/research/greatest-game-ever-played-october-15-1986
Congratulations to all the Cub fans, a really fun season.
A Yankee fan here also. I agree that's one of the best world series games of all time. Wow! I feel bad someone had to lose.
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I still can't believe it.
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-12-2016/07xFr2.gif)
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1st batter of the game...
(https://admin.mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/The-Office.gif)
Indians tie it...
(http://i.imgur.com/mqJ15jT.gif)
Cubs re-take the lead...
(http://i.amz.mshcdn.com/kXgNmYfYZhLgPYycEuMNxq-aHiU=/fit-in/850x850/http%3A%2F%2Fmashable.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Ftriumph%2Fbrad-pitt.gif)
Cubs go up 5-1!
(http://i.amz.mshcdn.com/LgZmZ2JPMJayp39AdhJiRvwPpr4=/fit-in/850x850/http%3A%2F%2Fmashable.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Ftriumph%2Fcolbert-report.gif)
2-run wild pitch.
(http://i.imgur.com/7Jsw1lq.gif)
Grandpa Rossy!
(http://i.giphy.com/OwGMuG7bCc5Dq.gif)
Rajai f-ing Davis
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3xwjiQStd1qi66kho2_400.gif)
End of 9.
(http://files.leagueathletics.com/Images/Pictures/3925/11866.jpg)
Zobrist!
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/bigbangtheory/images/0/07/GIF-Dancing-celebrate-celebration-dance-Ecstatic-happy-happy-dance-joy-success-woo-hoo-GIF.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150124173039)
Bottom of 10
(https://1ehukb3kd764oddub3rdo4uw-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/tom-hanks.gif)
(http://m.mlb.com/images/4/5/2/154339452/101315_chc_dugout_dancing_lo_o34c5qeh.gif)
(https://media.tenor.co/images/68130b4ee46fd9041b64a3c55f4765aa/raw)
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-22-2015/dbm8Fn.gif)
(http://mlb.mlb.com/assets/images/7/1/4/201585714/091516_cubs_flag_med_3_fqqoz3ho.gif)
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1st batter of the game...
Well done.
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It's still sinking in.....
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This whole Playoffs when I'd be in front of the TV watching the Cubs they'd lose/give up runs/leads and when I wouldn't be watching them they'd win (other than game 4 of the World Series, even I couldn't save Bauer).
Last night I turned the game on during the 3rd AB of the game (1-0 Cubs), watched the rest of the first (1-0 Cubs), went upstairs to get ready to go play basketball, got back in front of the TV for the bottom of the 3rd (1-0 Cubs), and left after the 3rd (1-1). Texted my Cubs fan friend about it, told him I was leaving and he was welcome/congrats on the WS, and by the time I was done with my 10 minute drive to the gym checked the score and saw it was 3-1 Cubs. Got home at 10 to see Lester get the 2nd out in the bottom of the 8th (6-3 Cubs) and then saw the Indians tie the game. Watched the 9th, saw it was delayed so went to shower, got back in front of the TV right after the Cubs scored to make it 7-6 in the 10th.
Moral of the story, you're welcome for the WS title Cubs fans, and if you pay me enough I'll skip watching every Cubs Playoff baseball game for the rest of time.
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Going to bed. This will finish tomorrow night.
Took your advice. Have a bone to pick.
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Still can't believe it. A lot of tears and booze last night in Wrigleyville.
I also apparently hurt my calf celebrating because I can't walk for sh*t. Worth it.
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Dammit... I woke up this morning with what must be the Cubsfluenza that's going around. Only mine appears to be viral, not alcohol-induced.
F-ing Cubs... just when I can finally appreciate something they did, they end up making me sick.
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It has to be up there. Gibson's home run was always the go to answer, but this did have it all. Not sure what else you could ask for. Clutch hitting on both sides, pitchers both made to look vulnerable (Kluber, Miller, Chapman) and exemplary. Big lead, big rally, extra innings. Two great teams, really too bad someone had to lose.
That was a great game and congrats to the Cubs. Not to take anything away from last night but i'll also say that the Jack Morris '91 game 7 was up there.
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That was a great game and congrats to the Cubs. Not to take anything away from last night but i'll also say that the Jack Morris '91 game 7 was up there.
Great game, but this one had more action, more flips, more emotion. Also, game 7 of the classic '01 series was great. The end of that Yankee dynasty.
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I don't know if any of you saw this last night. I'm not even that big of a Cubs Fan and it gave me the feels....
https://www.youtube.com/v/b4LrTkWq9jU
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Loved the Bud spot with Harry.
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Loved the Bud spot with Harry.
That got me. Loved listening to drunken uncle growing up.
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Great game, but this one had more action, more flips, more emotion. Also, game 7 of the classic '01 series was great. The end of that Yankee dynasty.
Game 6, 1975, (Fisk waving it fair) may be the best. Last night is certainly in the conversation of greatest of all time.
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That was a great game and congrats to the Cubs. Not to take anything away from last night but i'll also say that the Jack Morris '91 game 7 was up there.
1960 game 7 is still the gold standard. Look it up sometime. Pirates 10, Yankees 9, walk off home run to win World Series. Big comebacks, bad hops, the game had everything.
1975 game 6 is the best World Series game I can remember. Last night may have it beat, since it was similar in excitement and was a winner-take-all.
A game that people have forgotten (probably because they didn't watch it) from just a few years ago was game 6 of the 2011 World Series. Rangers were up 3 games to 2 and scored 2 in the top of the 10th to take a 9-7 lead, but the Cards tied it in the bottom of the 10th and won 10-9 in the 11th.
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One side note, but a small thing last night that was a huge key to the game for the Cubs.
In the bottom of the 8th, after the Davis home run and Crisp's single, Chapman was reeling. The next batter was Yan Gomes, who is a terrible hitter and was in the game because Francona pinch ran for the starting catcher. Gomes hit .167 in about half a seasons worth of at-bats. Chapman missed badly for ball 1 and ball 2, making the count 2-0 with the top of the order coming up. Gomes then proceeded to swing at two balls in the dirt and a 2-2 pitch a foot outside. Just an atrocious, atrocious AB. I can't believe he didn't get the take sign. If he took the walk like he should have, there is a good chance the Indians would have taken the lead with Santana coming up. After the inning, Chapman settled down, realized he didn't have his best fastball and worked the Indians with breaking stuff in the 9th to great effect.
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One side note, but a small thing last night that was a huge key to the game for the Cubs.
In the bottom of the 8th, after the Davis home run and Crisp's single, Chapman was reeling. The next batter was Yan Gomes, who is a terrible hitter and was in the game because Francona pinch ran for the starting catcher. Gomes hit .167 in about half a seasons worth of at-bats. Chapman missed badly for ball 1 and ball 2, making the count 2-0 with the top of the order coming up. Gomes then proceeded to swing at two balls in the dirt and a 2-2 pitch a foot outside. Just an atrocious, atrocious AB. I can't believe he didn't get the take sign. If he took the walk like he should have, there is a good chance the Indians would have taken the lead with Santana coming up. After the inning, Chapman settled down, realized he didn't have his best fastball and worked the Indians with breaking stuff in the 9th to great effect.
Interesting.... I do recall a certain All-Star catcher who nixed a trade to the Indians a little over 90 days ago.
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Interesting.... I do recall a certain All-Star catcher who nixed a trade to the Indians a little over 90 days ago.
While that is true, they got Andrew Miller after losing out on Lucroy. I doubt they would have traded for both. I suspect the Indians are happy with the way it worked out.
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Go Cubs!
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It is surreal around Wrigley right now. I'm an emotional mess. It's wonderful.
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I'm with you. Blubbering like a little girl on occasion. Didn't cry when kids born, etc. Hard to explain.
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I remember crying when MU beat Kentucky to go the final 4. I totally get it.
In 2006, when the Tigers went to the world series..... in the clincher against Oakland, I almost missed the game because my wife was having issues with her pregnancy for our son. I spent most of that afternoon and early evening in the emergency room with a crap-ton of monitors hooked up to my wife, not really caring what was going on in the ALCS game. The only reason I knew anything is because she kept nagging me to get the score. That year, because she was so sick with this pregnancy, she started watching baseball for the first time and became a Tiger junkie as they made their Cinderella run that year. So, scared spitless, at her request, I kept going to get updates.
They finally allowed us to go home. She didn't lose the baby. Stopped on the way home to pick up dinner and my 11 year old daughter and got home in time for the 9th inning. Ordonez makes contact and I am up out of my seat instantly, calling it before the announcers do. And then bawling.
So I can imagine how surreal and emotional it must be around Wrigley today.
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One side note, but a small thing last night that was a huge key to the game for the Cubs.
In the bottom of the 8th, after the Davis home run and Crisp's single, Chapman was reeling. The next batter was Yan Gomes, who is a terrible hitter and was in the game because Francona pinch ran for the starting catcher. Gomes hit .167 in about half a seasons worth of at-bats. Chapman missed badly for ball 1 and ball 2, making the count 2-0 with the top of the order coming up. Gomes then proceeded to swing at two balls in the dirt and a 2-2 pitch a foot outside. Just an atrocious, atrocious AB. I can't believe he didn't get the take sign. If he took the walk like he should have, there is a good chance the Indians would have taken the lead with Santana coming up. After the inning, Chapman settled down, realized he didn't have his best fastball and worked the Indians with breaking stuff in the 9th to great effect.
This is 100000% dead on. This was where the Tribe lost the game. That was their best opportunity to win. With all that was happening, I'd have sent Crisp on the first pitch, and infinity percent had Gomes on take until you get one, probably two. No way Gomes should swing on his own there.
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Had lots of Cleveland kids with us as Warriors back in the day. Van de Motter, Prosser, Finnegan, Winings (sp), etc. St Ed's and St. Ignatius if I recall.
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This is 100000% dead on. This was where the Tribe lost the game. That was their best opportunity to win. With all that was happening, I'd have sent Crisp on the first pitch, and infinity percent had Gomes on take until you get one, probably two. No way Gomes should swing on his own there.
If Gomes had left his bat on the bench, I'm not sure that Chapman could have thrown 3 strikes in 6 pitches at that point.
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This is brilliant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nApTGkLd2hs
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Nice interview with Jack's widow, Pat Brickhouse.
http://wgnradio.com/2016/10/30/pat-brickhouse-on-cubs-world-series-jack-brickhouse-would-be-proud/
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This is brilliant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nApTGkLd2hs
It didn't hit me until I saw this a couple hours ago. Harry broke me.
Wrigleyville was AMAZING last night.
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Heres another one that got me. Honestly, its been just a constant day of tearing up when I see something new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPB0UMVTlj8
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Heres another one that got me. Honestly, its been just a constant day of tearing up when I see something new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPB0UMVTlj8
Sometimes it's more than it's just a game.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx2Sps9aMcY
...except in Chicago.
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As a Yankee fan the game last night has to be one of the best, but the game the Mets played against Houston is hard to beat.
http://sabr.org/research/greatest-game-ever-played-october-15-1986
Congratulations to all the Cub fans, a really fun season.
I was at that 1986 game...best Astros game I ever saw in person.
Astros have a pretty neat footnote in 1986. In the last three regular season wins to clinch the west division (only 2 divisions back then East/West...no wild card) ....Astros got a :
1)4-0 two hitter (by Jim Deshaies- yes ...the Cubs announcer), then ...
2)6-0 one hitter (by Nolan Ryan-HOF), followed by
3) a 1-0 no hitter (by Mike Scott-1986 Cy Young)...to clinch ....clinching with a no hitter only happened this one time,ever.
....coolest three consecutive big game pitching performances I will ever see.
BTW my heartiest congrats to Cubs and the fans...this was a fun series to watch, and long suffering fans deserve the elation of this moment
ENJOY
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https://pjmedia.com/video/cubs-fan-drives-from-north-carolina-to-indiana-to-watch-game-7-with-late-father/
Wow!
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I think the chalk writings on the outside of the Wrigley walls is one of the cooler things about this.
http://deadspin.com/this-ones-for-all-the-cubs-fans-who-didnt-live-long-eno-1788530112
My professional teams have either been good enough for most of my adult life (Packers), or just blah enough that I don't care all that much (Brewers and Bucks), so this is hard to relate to. But I know enough Cub fans to know this is very meaningful for them.
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I think the chalk writings on the outside of the Wrigley walls is one of the cooler things about this.
http://deadspin.com/this-ones-for-all-the-cubs-fans-who-didnt-live-long-eno-1788530112
My professional teams have either been good enough for most of my adult life (Packers), or just blah enough that I don't care all that much (Brewers and Bucks), so this is hard to relate to. But I know enough Cub fans to know this is very meaningful for them.
I live a block away from Wrigley and stopped to write something for my grandpa on my way to watch game 7.
Both OF walls are completely covered. It really is something special to see in person.
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Lineup for Grant Park started before 4:30 this morning.
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I live a block away from Wrigley and stopped to write something for my grandpa on my way to watch game 7.
Both OF walls are completely covered. It really is something special to see in person.
I'm still alive but my sister put my initials up there for me. Wish I could have been there to witness the celebration firsthand.
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I'm still alive but my sister put my initials up there for me.
Check your pulse every day just to be sure.
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I'm still alive but my sister put my initials up there for me. Wish I could have been there to witness the celebration firsthand.
(http://6336-presscdn-26-82.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/not-dead-yet.jpg)
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Born in 1984, all the major franchises I am a fan of have now won a championship in my lifetime. Unfortunately, I have no actual knowledge of the Bears, but at least I got to watch them in a Super Bowl (stupid Grossman and Ron Turner). Blackhawks, Bulls, Cubs are all easily-recalled memories. Hope the Bears can win on before I die.
The only big lacking one is US Men's soccer. I don't expect them to come close ever.
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A variety of points from a non-Cubbie fan but long-time Cubbie (and baseball) observer:
1. Cubs were the best team all season, and it really wasn't very close. They were built beautifully by Theo, from the front office and manager on down. Very balanced: pitching, hitting, fielding, the whole nine yards. Seemed to have a very good "team personality," too -- guys liked each other, picked each other up when necessary, etc. This should serve them well for many years.
2. Maddon overmanages sometimes, did so quite often during the postseason and really had a pretty crappy Game 7. It reminded me of LaRussa's occasional inability to keep his hands off. But, like LaRussa, I'll take Maddon every day of the week. It doesn't take a genius to do a double-switch. The most important part of managing is dealing with the egos, and he is wonderful at that.
3. Those who love the Cubs but hate abusive people had the perfect storm in Game 7. Chapman sucked and actually was reduced to tears, but the Cubs still won.
4. So right about Yan Gomes. Terrible that he was on the roster, terrible that he was in the game, and that was a particularly terrible, terrible, terrible at-bat that let Chapman off the hook. I also didn't like the pinch-hitter that Francona used at the end of the game. Awful player; amazing he's on an MLB roster. Like Maddon, though, I'll take Francona every day.
5. As soon as Chapman retired the side 1-2-3 in the ninth, I knew the Cubs were going to win. They had the heart of their lineup coming up in the 10th, and the Indians' staff was gassed. Hayward's speech and the rain delay ... it's fun to talk about stuff like that, but it came down to a tired, good-but-not-great pitcher going against some great hitters.
6. Schwarber ... now THAT'S a great story.
7. As I said, I'm no Cubs fan. I really couldn't have cared if they had won or lost. But as with the Cavs, it's nice to see something that never happens, happen. Also, my son still lives in Chicago and is a huge Cubbie fan, so I'm happy for him.
8. Best series I ever saw in person was Twins-Braves '91. That produced several amazing games, including the best meaningful game I ever saw in person - Game 7. (I make the "meaningful" caveat because we've all seen a lot of great regular-season games in every sport; it's the great moments that happen when the stakes are the highest that we really remember.)
9. My first major sportswriting assignment was the 1982 ALCS (Brewers-Angels) and World Series (Brewers-Cardinals), so those have special personal appeal to me.
10. The most incredible half-hour of sports that I ever witnessed personally came in the 2003 NLCS, Game 6, 8th inning. Never had seen anything like it and almost surely never will again.
11. Otherwise, I've seen so many great World Series games on TV that it's hard to rank them. Certainly, the Fisk game was memorable. As was the Cardinals-Rangers game referenced earlier. Etc, etc, etc. Just so many. Somebody mentioned the Mazeroski game in 1960 -- that happened the day I was born, and I have a great baseball card commemorating that game with the date highlighted.
12. I'm happy for all the Scoopers who have been living and dying (mostly dying) with the Cubbies for years. But I don't really give a damn about all the Cubbie-come-latelies who glommed onto this team this season.
13. Two years ago, if you had asked me if the Cubs could win the 2016 World Series, I would have said, "Yeah, sure. And Donald Trump can win the effen White House."
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A variety of points from a non-Cubbie fan but long-time Cubbie (and baseball) observer:
2. Maddon overmanages sometimes, did so quite often during the postseason and really had a pretty crappy Game 7. It reminded me of LaRussa's occasional inability to keep his hands off. But, like LaRussa, I'll take Maddon every day of the week. It doesn't take a genius to do a double-switch. The most important part of managing is dealing with the egos, and he is wonderful at that.
The Maddon-LaRussa game management is a good comparison. I like Maddon a lot as a manager but he does occasionally get a little too cute trying to prove how ahead of the curve he is.
3. Those who love the Cubs but hate abusive people had the perfect storm in Game 7. Chapman sucked and actually was reduced to tears, but the Cubs still won.
+1 When the Cubs traded for Chapman, I said that I'd be very happy to see him blow the save but the Cubs win in extras.
In an odd, unexpected turn, since the Cubs traded for Chapman, donations to Chicago area domestic violence organizations have increased significantly. Likely Cubs fans trying to pay off their guilt for cheering on Chapman.
4. So right about Yan Gomes. Terrible that he was on the roster, terrible that he was in the game, and that was a particularly terrible, terrible, terrible at-bat that let Chapman off the hook. I also didn't like the pinch-hitter that Francona used at the end of the game. Awful player; amazing he's on an MLB roster. Like Maddon, though, I'll take Francona every day.
Martinez wasn't actually a pinch-hitter. He was brought into the game in the 9th to replace Chisenhall in RF. Cleveland had no one left on the bench at that point.
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City says 5 million showed up for the spectacle celebrating the team's first World Series victory in 108 years.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20161104/BLOGS04/161109899/party-on-chicago-scenes-from-the-cubs-world-series-parade-and-rally#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccb-breakingnews&utm_campaign=ccb-breakingnews-20161104
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Martinez wasn't actually a pinch-hitter. He was brought into the game in the 9th to replace Chisenhall in RF. Cleveland had no one left on the bench at that point.
I sit corrected. Thanks.
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A variety of points from a non-Cubbie fan but long-time Cubbie (and baseball) observer:
2. Maddon overmanages sometimes, did so quite often during the postseason and really had a pretty crappy Game 7. It reminded me of LaRussa's occasional inability to keep his hands off. But, like LaRussa, I'll take Maddon every day of the week. It doesn't take a genius to do a double-switch. The most important part of managing is dealing with the egos, and he is wonderful at that.
Specifically in regards to Maddon, I take him all day, everyday as the manager of the team. That being said, he let the moment get to him too much in games 6 and 7.
In regards to game 6, you can make an argument for taking Arrieta out (although I disagreed with it). However, bringing Chapman back out to start the 9th and not having someone else up to close out a 7 run lead was bad.
He also great overreacted by taking Hendricks out of game 7. He was getting stronger as they game had progressed and the only reason there was a guy on 1st base is because the ump missed an extremely obvious strike 3. Lester pitched really well after the wild pitch but I thought Hendricks was looking really good at that point.
I'm ecstatic things worked out but there were definitely some very questionable decisions in terms of pitching changes in games 6 and 7, and I'm not usually one who makes a habit of second-guessing those moves.
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A variety of points from a non-Cubbie fan but long-time Cubbie (and baseball) observer:
1. Cubs were the best team all season, and it really wasn't very close. They were built beautifully by Theo, from the front office and manager on down. Very balanced: pitching, hitting, fielding, the whole nine yards. Seemed to have a very good "team personality," too -- guys liked each other, picked each other up when necessary, etc. This should serve them well for many years.
2. Maddon overmanages sometimes, did so quite often during the postseason and really had a pretty crappy Game 7. It reminded me of LaRussa's occasional inability to keep his hands off. But, like LaRussa, I'll take Maddon every day of the week. It doesn't take a genius to do a double-switch. The most important part of managing is dealing with the egos, and he is wonderful at that.
3. Those who love the Cubs but hate abusive people had the perfect storm in Game 7. Chapman sucked and actually was reduced to tears, but the Cubs still won.
4. So right about Yan Gomes. Terrible that he was on the roster, terrible that he was in the game, and that was a particularly terrible, terrible, terrible at-bat that let Chapman off the hook. I also didn't like the pinch-hitter that Francona used at the end of the game. Awful player; amazing he's on an MLB roster. Like Maddon, though, I'll take Francona every day.
5. As soon as Chapman retired the side 1-2-3 in the ninth, I knew the Cubs were going to win. They had the heart of their lineup coming up in the 10th, and the Indians' staff was gassed. Hayward's speech and the rain delay ... it's fun to talk about stuff like that, but it came down to a tired, good-but-not-great pitcher going against some great hitters.
6. Schwarber ... now THAT'S a great story.
7. As I said, I'm no Cubs fan. I really couldn't have cared if they had won or lost. But as with the Cavs, it's nice to see something that never happens, happen. Also, my son still lives in Chicago and is a huge Cubbie fan, so I'm happy for him.
8. Best series I ever saw in person was Twins-Braves '91. That produced several amazing games, including the best meaningful game I ever saw in person - Game 7. (I make the "meaningful" caveat because we've all seen a lot of great regular-season games in every sport; it's the great moments that happen when the stakes are the highest that we really remember.)
9. My first major sportswriting assignment was the 1982 ALCS (Brewers-Angels) and World Series (Brewers-Cardinals), so those have special personal appeal to me.
10. The most incredible half-hour of sports that I ever witnessed personally came in the 2003 NLCS, Game 6, 8th inning. Never had seen anything like it and almost surely never will again.
11. Otherwise, I've seen so many great World Series games on TV that it's hard to rank them. Certainly, the Fisk game was memorable. As was the Cardinals-Rangers game referenced earlier. Etc, etc, etc. Just so many. Somebody mentioned the Mazeroski game in 1960 -- that happened the day I was born, and I have a great baseball card commemorating that game with the date highlighted.
12. I'm happy for all the Scoopers who have been living and dying (mostly dying) with the Cubbies for years. But I don't really give a damn about all the Cubbie-come-latelies who glommed onto this team this season.
13. Two years ago, if you had asked me if the Cubs could win the 2016 World Series, I would have said, "Yeah, sure. And Donald Trump can win the effen White House."
I have only been to two World Series games: October 8, 1956 and October 13, 1960. I was only 9 when Don Larsen pitched his perfect game at the Stadium. My cousin was a Pittsburgh native and I saw Mazeroski break my heart; my cousin was estatic to say the least.
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He also great overreacted by taking Hendricks out of game 7. He was getting stronger as they game had progressed and the only reason there was a guy on 1st base is because the ump missed an extremely obvious strike 3. Lester pitched really well after the wild pitch but I thought Hendricks was looking really good at that point.
Not just that, but the run Hendricks allowed wasn't at all his fault. He made pitch after pitch and just didn't get the defense that is usually great behind him. And he was still at what, 2 hits and 1 run when he got pulled?
Let Hendricks finish the inning that should have been over, then bring Lester in clean. For all the talk about giving Lester a clean introduction, it was crazy that they brought him in with a runner on.
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Not just that, but the run Hendricks allowed wasn't at all his fault. He made pitch after pitch and just didn't get the defense that is usually great behind him. And he was still at what, 2 hits and 1 run when he got pulled?
Let Hendricks finish the inning that should have been over, then bring Lester in clean. For all the talk about giving Lester a clean introduction, it was crazy that they brought him in with a runner on.
Yep. It shows that a moment of that magnitude can get to the best of people. I would have understood more if Hendricks had been laboring, but he was in the f'n zone. And even though we won I'm still annoyed about that missed strike 3. :D
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Specifically in regards to Maddon, I take him all day, everyday as the manager of the team. That being said, he let the moment get to him too much in games 6 and 7.
In regards to game 6, you can make an argument for taking Arrieta out (although I disagreed with it). However, bringing Chapman back out to start the 9th and not having someone else up to close out a 7 run lead was bad.
He also great overreacted by taking Hendricks out of game 7. He was getting stronger as they game had progressed and the only reason there was a guy on 1st base is because the ump missed an extremely obvious strike 3. Lester pitched really well after the wild pitch but I thought Hendricks was looking really good at that point.
I'm ecstatic things worked out but there were definitely some very questionable decisions in terms of pitching changes in games 6 and 7, and I'm not usually one who makes a habit of second-guessing those moves.
Maddon is a better manager than Ozzie Guillen ever was or ever will be. But I still am very impressed by the way Ozzie resisted making the automatic call to the bullpen in the 2005 postseason. In the ALCS, the White Sox won on 4 complete games. Think about that: 4 straight complete games. And we're not talking about the '40s or '60s; that was only a few years ago, when automatic bullpen calls already were prevalent. In the World Series, Ozzie only went to the bullpen when absolutely necessary. It was textbook managing for the situation instead of "we have a reliever so I'm going to use him" mentality that is so popular now.
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Yep. It shows that a moment of that magnitude can get to the best of people. I would have understood more if Hendricks had been laboring, but he was in the f'n zone. And even though we won I'm still annoyed about that missed strike 3. :D
Meanwhile, I had some guy on Twitter trying to put me on blast for not acknowledging that the umps were doing everything in their power to hand the series to the Cubs.
Yeah...because the umps handed them games 1, 3, and 4. There were questionable calls both ways, but that's just how it goes. Maybe the Cubs got the better of it in the end, but that doesn't mean they didn't get screwed at moments too.
Regardless, love the result and wish I could have been down there today.
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Maddon is a better manager than Ozzie Guillen ever was or ever will be. But I still am very impressed by the way Ozzie resisted making the automatic call to the bullpen in the 2005 postseason. In the ALCS, the White Sox won on 4 complete games. Think about that: 4 straight complete games. And we're not talking about the '40s or '60s; that was only a few years ago, when automatic bullpen calls already were prevalent. In the World Series, Ozzie only went to the bullpen when absolutely necessary. It was textbook managing for the situation instead of "we have a reliever so I'm going to use him" mentality that is so popular now.
I believe they said the was the first World Series where no starter completed more than 6 innings in any game, which is nuts. And there were some very well pitched games by Kluber, Lester, Arrieta and Hendricks.
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Good stuff:
http://www.theheckler.com/2016/11/04/maddon-yanks-hendricks-from-victory-parade-after-4-23-blocks/
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I sit corrected. Thanks.
Kinda hard ta stand erected, hey?
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Lost in all of this (or perhaps not, I didn't read the whole thread)...
Zemeckis was only off by one year.
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Lost in all of this (or perhaps not, I didn't read the whole thread)...
Zemeckis was only off by one year.
Michael J. Fox tweeted about it afterwards.
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Lost in all of this (or perhaps not, I didn't read the whole thread)...
Zemeckis was only off by one year.
Not necessarily. An unintended consequence of Marty not racing Needles pushed the Cubs Series back a year, but they never returned to 2015 to verify.
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Lost in all of this (or perhaps not, I didn't read the whole thread)...
Zemeckis was only off by one year.
1994 strike threw him off. Otherwise he had it nailed.
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Lost in all of this (or perhaps not, I didn't read the whole thread)...
Zemeckis was only off by one year.
Didn't he get Miami right also in BTF2?
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Didn't he get Miami right also in BTF2?
The Cubs swept Miami in five, though their logo was an alligator and they were an AL team.
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The Cubs were all over SNL this weekend including sing "Go Cubs Go" with Bill Murray.
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1994 strike threw him off. Otherwise he had it nailed.
Didn't he get Miami right also in BTF2?
Right you are... indeed, Robert Zemeckis (actually, the writer Bob Gale) was only off by one year (and one team) when Back to the Future II foretold of the Cubs eventual achievement… or was he? Although Back to the Future II was released in 1989, the main characters’ timeline still originated in 1985. So as written – from the point of view of Doc and Marty – there would be 29 more World Series champions crowned before the Cubs would finally see the mountaintop again.
As it turns out, only 29 World Series champions have been crowned between 1985 and the Cubs this year. How? Not even Doc and Marty could have predicted that the 1994 MLB Strike would have caused the postseason to be cancelled that year.
However, this is not the first time life has imitated art in baseball… in another example involving the very same Cleveland Indians: most astute Brewers fans will recall that Major League - also released in 1989 - was filmed predominantly in Milwaukee, and Milwaukee County Stadium, which was filled by thousands of Brewer fan extras, played the part of the Indians’ home field (Cleveland Municipal). In 2007, due to early season weather complications, Cleveland was forced to play three of its home games in Milwaukee, where thousands of Brewers fans, once again, filled the stadium again to cheer on the Indians.
And to tie it all together, in Major League, the former-showgirl owner of the Indians, Rachel Phelps, was attempting to relocate the franchise to Miami, the same city whose team was foretold to have lost to the Cubs in 2015 in Back to the Future II. Of course, while the real-life Miami and Chicago Cubs – both NL teams – could never meet in the World Series, consider that in the world of cinema, had Ms. Phelps been successful in her endeavors, Miami would have been an AL team making it possible for Miami and the Cubs to face off in Back to the Future II, where the Cubs would have actually defeated the Indians' franchise.
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Right you are... indeed, Robert Zemeckis (actually, the writer Bob Gale) was only off by one year (and one team) when Back to the Future II foretold of the Cubs eventual achievement… or was he? Although Back to the Future II was released in 1989, the main characters’ timeline still originated in 1985. So as written – from the point of view of Doc and Marty – there would be 29 more World Series champions crowned before the Cubs would finally see the mountaintop again.
As it turns out, only 29 World Series champions have been crowned between 1985 and the Cubs this year. How? Not even Doc and Marty could have predicted that the 1994 MLB Strike would have caused the postseason to be cancelled that year.
However, this is not the first time life has imitated art in baseball… in another example involving the very same Cleveland Indians: most astute Brewers fans will recall that Major League - also released in 1989 - was filmed predominantly in Milwaukee, and Milwaukee County Stadium, which was filled by thousands of Brewer fan extras, played the part of the Indians’ home field (Cleveland Municipal). In 2007, due to early season weather complications, Cleveland was forced to play three of its home games in Milwaukee, where thousands of Brewers fans, once again, filled the stadium again to cheer on the Indians.
And to tie it all together, in Major League, the former-showgirl owner of the Indians, Rachel Phelps, was attempting to relocate the franchise to Miami, the same city whose team was foretold to have lost to the Cubs in 2015 in Back to the Future II. Of course, while the real-life Miami and Chicago Cubs – both NL teams – could never meet in the World Series, consider that in the world of cinema, had Ms. Phelps been successful in her endeavors, Miami would have been an AL team making it possible for Miami and the Cubs to face off in Back to the Future II, where the Cubs would have actually defeated the Indians' franchise.
I'm on board.
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Right you are... indeed, Robert Zemeckis (actually, the writer Bob Gale) was only off by one year (and one team) when Back to the Future II foretold of the Cubs eventual achievement… or was he? Although Back to the Future II was released in 1989, the main characters’ timeline still originated in 1985. So as written – from the point of view of Doc and Marty – there would be 29 more World Series champions crowned before the Cubs would finally see the mountaintop again.
As it turns out, only 29 World Series champions have been crowned between 1985 and the Cubs this year. How? Not even Doc and Marty could have predicted that the 1994 MLB Strike would have caused the postseason to be cancelled that year.
However, this is not the first time life has imitated art in baseball… in another example involving the very same Cleveland Indians: most astute Brewers fans will recall that Major League - also released in 1989 - was filmed predominantly in Milwaukee, and Milwaukee County Stadium, which was filled by thousands of Brewer fan extras, played the part of the Indians’ home field (Cleveland Municipal). In 2007, due to early season weather complications, Cleveland was forced to play three of its home games in Milwaukee, where thousands of Brewers fans, once again, filled the stadium again to cheer on the Indians.
And to tie it all together, in Major League, the former-showgirl owner of the Indians, Rachel Phelps, was attempting to relocate the franchise to Miami, the same city whose team was foretold to have lost to the Cubs in 2015 in Back to the Future II. Of course, while the real-life Miami and Chicago Cubs – both NL teams – could never meet in the World Series, consider that in the world of cinema, had Ms. Phelps been successful in her endeavors, Miami would have been an AL team making it possible for Miami and the Cubs to face off in Back to the Future II, where the Cubs would have actually defeated the Indians' franchise.
Back to the Future it is!
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Didn't see SNL this past weekend but if they were smart they would've made some joke about Billy Goats based on the old SNL skits about Billy Goats.
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Didn't see SNL this past weekend but if they were smart they would've made some joke about Billy Goats based on the old SNL skits about Billy Goats.
Nope. These were the two cubs skits.
https://www.youtube.com/v/YreZRQupCYk
https://www.youtube.com/v/7BvTLBgpSxQ
And it doesn't surprise me in the least that there was no nod to the Billy Goat. The location of the restaurant was never mentioned, and it was referred to as "The Olympia Cafe", not "The Billy Goat". Of course, you youngsters weren't even a twinkle in your dad's eye back then.
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Nope. These were the two cubs skits.
https://www.youtube.com/v/YreZRQupCYk
https://www.youtube.com/v/7BvTLBgpSxQ
And it doesn't surprise me in the least that there was no nod to the Billy Goat. The location of the restaurant was never mentioned, and it was referred to as "The Olympia Cafe", not "The Billy Goat". Of course, you youngsters weren't even a twinkle in your dad's eye back then.
The Cubs are going to use the apparel from the stripper skit as their new alternative road unis.
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Nope. These were the two cubs skits.
And it doesn't surprise me in the least that there was no nod to the Billy Goat. The location of the restaurant was never mentioned, and it was referred to as "The Olympia Cafe", not "The Billy Goat". Of course, you youngsters weren't even a twinkle in your dad's eye back then.
Yeah but you'd think everybody would know what place it was. Hell it takes about 4 seconds on wikipedia for those who wouldn't know.
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Yeah but you'd think everybody would know what place it was. Hell it takes about 4 seconds on wikipedia for those who wouldn't know.
It was way more fun back in the day before The Billy Goat decided to capitalize on it. Believe it or not, it took them a few years to put all those "cheezborger cheezborger" signs up. We would just take out-of-towners to The Billy Goat and let them order. After being corrected about ordering fries and a Coke, it wouldn't take them long for our friends to go, "Hey, wait a minute...."
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Every Cubs playoff series in my lifetime ended in 3 straight losses (89, 98, 03, 07, 08, 15). You can include 84 if you are a year older than me.
This year it ended with three straight wins.
Much better this way!
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It was way more fun back in the day before The Billy Goat decided to capitalize on it. Believe it or not, it took them a few years to put all those "cheezborger cheezborger" signs up. We would just take out-of-towners to The Billy Goat and let them order. After being corrected about ordering fries and a Coke, it wouldn't take them long for our friends to go, "Hey, wait a minute...."
a lot of the friends I'd take their for their first time were even still confused. I remember they used to be much intense about it than now though, it's a shame. Also a shame that most people my age think the on in the southwest corner of the loop or the one on Ogden is the original and that's if they've even heard of it >:(