Wojo's Seat April 4, 2017

[1SE]

A lake-Michigan warm seat doesn't mean Wojo out at the end of the season - it means there would at least be the chance the 17-18 season would be his last.

If we miss the NIT it certainly seems that that would be realistic. Even if we squeak into the NIT and flame out. Listen, I hope we go to the NCAA and that starts a return to regular annual appearances. But if we miss out again this year I will find my mubb interest waning - we are paying coin for a top flight program - we are owed more than mid major results.

It's entirely on Wojo we that don't have a serviceable 4 on our roster this year. I hope the run and gun and 3 wild-west shoot out strategy works -  it would certainly be exciting ball - but if it doesn't produce Ws then it's on Wojo for the team he put together (and how he has coached them).

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Maybe it's the hope springs eternal nature of preseason, but I am really liking what Wojo is doing, especially with this current recruiting class. Sure, we missed out on Tillman, but the staff identified a clear lack of tough bigs on our roster last year and has worked their asses off to correct it with this class.

When Wojo arrived, we didn't have shooters, we didn't have rebounders, we simply didn't have players. Considering Buzz's recruiting reputation and the hard-nosed rep his teams developed, it's amazing what he left behind. The guys that were talented (Jajuan, Deonte) weren't tough, and the guys that were tough (Derrick, Juan) weren't that talented.

I think there's only one guy that Buzz left behind that, as they were at that time, would improve this team. That says volumes about how far we fell, but also how far we've come. Personally, I really like Cheatham, Carter, and Heldt going forward. I can't wait to watch Reinhardt, Rowsey, Howard, and Hauser. And I think Wojo has done great with guys like Fischer, Duane, and Jajuan that were left behind. And looking ahead, thinking about those young guys growing up and seeing through recruiting how the coach is already adapting his style to the requirements of this league, I'm excited.

We're not there yet, but I think we're a lot closer than some might realize.

Hey recruiting gives me hope too and good coaches can achieve a lot with a little talent.

I'm just done worrying about the academic arguments at this stage.  We either start winning and I'm happy or we don't.

[wadesworld]

Truth is .. the bottom has fallen out of MUBB expectations. 

Five years ago, you could find threads on Scoop that talked about legit expectations .. be in the top 64 / make the dance at least 4 out of 6 years .. make it to the 2nd weekend or farther in 2 out of 6.  We weren't elite, but had a solid, performing program year after year where missing both the dance and NIT were unthinkable.

Not so much any more, it's normal to watch 96 other teams play in March.  Wojo is safe for at least 3 more seasons, excepting player scandals.   And even then, I think it's a good bet we'll have a decent season in that mix, prolonging the Wojo era.

I don't think expectations have changed 1 bit. Expectations are, at least for me, we make the NCAA every year and are a threat to make a little run in the Tournament almost every year. I think the administration's and BOD's expectations are similar.

That doesn't mean we can't be realistic about where the program was when Wojo took over and understand that it's going to take some time to get the program back to where it can realistically meet those expectations.

[wadesworld]

That's what happens when you're in the CUSA v2

Yeah! Remember all those years we were putting 50% of the conference into the NCAA Tournament and winning National Titles with CUSA?!

[mu_hilltopper]

It also has to be said, that changing coaches is a huge deal that /usually/ sets a program back years.   You likely lose your recruiting class, and maybe a few other players.    It usually means your program is in rebuilding mode for 2 years minimum, and often more.   

The question becomes do you fire Wojo and throw your program down the crapper another 2-3 years for the prospect of being better in 6 years?  Unless he's on par with DePaul, the answer is likely no.  He'll continue "having potential" for at least 5 more years.

As I said .. barring scandal, Wojo is safe for many, many years.   

I don't think expectations have changed 1 bit. Expectations are, at least for me, we make the NCAA every year and are a threat to make a little run in the Tournament almost every year. I think the administration's and BOD's expectations are similar.

I don't doubt you and others believe.  I do think that universe of folks is far smaller today, driving that average down.

[Dr. Blackheart]

https://youtu.be/R0ljUvblMco

With 100 years of Marquette basketball and 40 years since the NCAA Championship...the heat may be turned up a bit, hey?

That said, Wojo came in with a long term plan but not a great short term plan as that first year was a waste.  His third recruiting class of Howard, Hauser and Reinhardt is looking like a great class, however, for the long term health of the program's continuity.  Cheatham is a stud from last year.  The seniors should have something to prove as they have all underachieved their potential.

The team needs to play great team defense (as they are small without Hank) and defend the home court (something yet to be accomplished under Wojo), the dial will return to cold, with or without an NCAA bid.  Offensively, MU will be fun to watch, but the turnover rate needs to be brought into control.  Howard will be key there.

Thank god for Stan, I might add by opening new doors.  Nailing it.

[bma77]

Depends how the season goes.  If we are in the hunt, top 5 or 6 of the conference, competitive all year, he will be fine.  If play terribly, then different conclusion. 

[BossplayaOtto]

Our failure to meet that standard in recent years (mostly not Wojo's fault) has already pretty dramatically impacted attendance.

This is the first year that I can remember where 5-game mini-plans could secure seats in the lower bowl. Further indication of season ticket holder erosion, Even if some of the lowerbowlers retained their seats but moved up to the cheaper upperdeckers. Hopefully a couple of strong seasons and moving to a new first class, burrito-looking NBA arena, will help to revitalize the fan base. The BMO Harris Bradley Center was a morgue at many games last year (mostly due to the slate of fatty cupcakes). I wish we had a serviceable PF or 2 on the roster this year, but I am still bullish on Wojo and think this will be a fun season. Looking forward to Marquette Madness. The season cant get here fast enough.

[muguru]

Dr. Blackheart touched on it earlier but to me, the most abhorrent part of Wojo's tenure so far is the losing at home. Crean almost NEVER lost at home, and neither did Buzz. Now, it's become the norm. Unless he can get the home court advantage back(at a dominating level), MU will never get back to the heights they were at. Some of the games they have lost at home(Nebraska Omaha being one of many), are completely inexcusable and unacceptable. That's why attendance is waning.

[naginiF]

Dr. Blackheart touched on it earlier but to me, the most abhorrent part of Wojo's tenure so far is the losing at home. Crean almost NEVER lost at home, and neither did Buzz. Now, it's become the norm. Unless he can get the home court advantage back(at a dominating level), MU will never get back to the heights they were at. Some of the games they have lost at home(Nebraska Omaha being one of many), are completely inexcusable and unacceptable. That's why attendance is waning.

Thinking home court advantage is solely on a new coach's shoulders is more than a bit extreme/naive.  Home court advantage takes a fan base that supports the organization through predictable down turns. 

If you want to give the program the best opportunity for home court advantage..........wait for it.............GO TO THE GAMES AND CHEAR!

Shocking, i know.

[MUDPT]

Thinking home court advantage is solely on a new coach's shoulders is more than a bit extreme/naive.  Home court advantage takes a fan base that supports the organization through predictable down turns. 

If you want to give the program the best opportunity for home court advantage..........wait for it.............GO TO THE GAMES AND CHEAR!

Shocking, i know.

Lost two games by 20+ points at home last year. Anybody know the last time that happened?

[MU82]

Dr. Blackheart touched on it earlier but to me, the most abhorrent part of Wojo's tenure so far is the losing at home. Crean almost NEVER lost at home

Crean's second season (2000-01), Marquette was 10-6 at home, a .625 winning percentage. Marquette played one ranked team at home all season (Wisconsin) and lost.

Wojo's second season (2015-16), Marquette was 12-7 at home, a .632 winning percentage. Marquette played three ranked teams at home and went 1-2.

[Herman Cain]

While I completely agree that Wojo has a long leash, I really don't think the long term expectations have changed.  Given the coin the university spends, regular (like almost every year) NCAA appearances are the standard.  Our failure to meet that standard in recent years (mostly not Wojo's fault) has already pretty dramatically impacted attendance.  Mike Lovell has a keen sense of the overall importance of basketball and an even better sense that this is a performance driven business.  He absolutely expects Wojo to win with the resources that are available.  I also think he still firmly believes that Wojo is totally up to the task evidenced by the progress made to date.

The points you make are true in a general sense. However, I believe Lovell is star struck with respect to Wojo and therefore there is no performance metric . Hence we are stuck with Wojo till the end of his contract and will have to suffer through his coaching growing pains as a result.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Crean's second season (2000-01), Marquette was 10-6 at home, a .625 winning percentage. Marquette played one ranked team at home all season (Wisconsin) and lost.

Wojo's second season (2015-16), Marquette was 12-7 at home, a .632 winning percentage. Marquette played three ranked teams at home and went 1-2.

Oh, you and your silly "facts".

[Dr. Blackheart]

Crean's second season (2000-01), Marquette was 10-6 at home, a .625 winning percentage. Marquette played one ranked team at home all season (Wisconsin) and lost.

Wojo's second season (2015-16), Marquette was 12-7 at home, a .632 winning percentage. Marquette played three ranked teams at home and went 1-2.

I know you were answering another poster, but, to me, the thread is about any future heat, not the shyteshows of the past that were inherited.  With the transfers and seniors, I think home court is reestablished and the temperature remains low, even without a NCAA bid.  For whatever reason, it seems like MU has played better on the road under Wojo (Thanksgiving tournaments, Madison, Providence, Omaha, Rosemont). 

Now, if Bucky blows us out and MU lays another egg versus DePaul, look for a mushroom cloud.

[4everwarriors]

Welcome back MoM.

Didn't know she was banned, hey?

[4everwarriors]

Billy Packer was right, ai na?

[jsglow]

The points you make are true in a general sense. However, I believe Lovell is star struck with respect to Wojo and therefore there is no performance metric . Hence we are stuck with Wojo till the end of his contract and will have to suffer through his coaching growing pains as a result.

Absolutely ridiculous statement.  Yes there's a performance metric.  No, we're not going to 'do anything and everything' to achieve it immediately.  To that end, no one will be recruited or admitted who has zero ability to graduate on time (no criticism of Jae intended) and criminals and thugs and need not apply.  Out of respect for the departed I'm not going to mention names.  Serves zero purpose at this time. 

Wojo is expected to build a winning program with kids that properly reflect on Marquette and its values.  That takes some time given where we started.  When and if he succeeds, great.  If he fails he'll be gone.  There's no evidence that he's failing.  On the contrary, I'd argue that his bosses see progress and expect more in the short term with a goal of being a 'power' when the new building opens in 2 seasons.

[Daniel]

Absolutely ridiculous statement.  Yes there's a performance metric.  No, we're not going to 'do anything and everything' to achieve it immediately.  To that end, no one will be recruited or admitted who has zero ability to graduate on time (no criticism of Jae intended) and criminals and thugs and need not apply.  Out of respect for the departed I'm not going to mention names.  Serves zero purpose at this time. 

Wojo is expected to build a winning program with kids that properly reflect on Marquette and its values.  That takes some time given where we started.  When and if he succeeds, great.  If he fails he'll be gone.  There's no evidence that he's failing.  On the contrary, I'd argue that his bosses see progress and expect more in the short term with a goal of being a 'power' when the new building opens in 2 seasons.

Well said.

[HoopsterBC]

One point is missing is when you take a one and done player to a school that does not replace a one and done player, like MU,  it really hurts the program.  Henry would
have been a great recruit if the team was experienced and he was the final cog on a good team.  But just like Carlino, now Ellenson, your best player is gone, and your
starting over in some respects.  This team you were not able to find a power forward to replace him.  Puts the team behind the 8 ball again, and next year with a very
young inexperienced team upfront, might be the same problem.  The turnaround might be 3 or 4 years from now.  That does not do it for me.

Now losing Tillman might be better in the long run to secure Joey.  Joey has a nice outside game, really a stretch 4.  The question I always have about a kid up north,
are they athletic enough against Big East competition?

[Eye]

I said 0 Kelvin because I firmly believe the bottom won't fall out this year. Even if we disappoint and go 14-17, that won't be bad enough to get him fired. They'll at least give him one more year with his own players. So yeah...0 Kelvin. No chance whatsoever he gets fired on April 4, 2017, barring some major scandal.

Gotta be honest, MU's 14-17 this year, I'm at the minimum Real Chili Hot, and a fair or decent shot I'd vote gone. Pass for year 1 because Brent left the cupboard bare, progress last year, need to show progress again, and 14-17 would be a pretty significant step backwards.

[real chili 83]

Absolutely ridiculous statement.  Yes there's a performance metric.  No, we're not going to 'do anything and everything' to achieve it immediately.  To that end, no one will be recruited or admitted who has zero ability to graduate on time (no criticism of Jae intended) and criminals and thugs and need not apply.  Out of respect for the departed I'm not going to mention names.  Serves zero purpose at this time. 

Wojo is expected to build a winning program with kids that properly reflect on Marquette and its values.  That takes some time given where we started.  When and if he succeeds, great.  If he fails he'll be gone.  There's no evidence that he's failing.  On the contrary, I'd argue that his bosses see progress and expect more in the short term with a goal of being a 'power' when the new building opens in 2 seasons.

There you go again. Spinning things with a fair, balanced perspective.  Your point is hinged, based in fact, and offers balance.   The gall.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Gotta be honest, MU's 14-17 this year, I'm at the minimum Real Chili Hot, and a fair or decent shot I'd vote gone. Pass for year 1 because Brent left the cupboard bare, progress last year, need to show progress again, and 14-17 would be a pretty significant step backwards.

That's fine but if you do that, you likely lose multiple players from the 2017 class and possibly some players to transfer. A coaching change could mean 4 or more years of irrelevance on top of the 4 we would already have.

You only fire when you no longer have faith that the person can build your program. If recruiting is still good and your still in the first five years, probably not a good idea to fire.

[HoopsterBC]

Gotta be honest, Mu's 14-17 this year, I'm at the minimum Real Chili Hot, and a fair or decent shot I'd vote gone. Pass for year 1 because Brent left the cupboard bare, progress last year, need to show progress again, and 14-17 would be a pretty significant step backwards.

MU has great resources to recruit, better than 98% of the programs.  Wojo and team work hard at it, but I wonder about Tillman and his girl friend, potentially pregnant,
when did Wojo know?  As soon as I heard that it was over, sure it was Michigan St. and huge challenge, to recruit an in-state kid who grew up with MSU.  Have to understand quickly in the process, as MU spent a great deal of time and money wooing a kid they were not going to get.  Much like it is hard to get a kid out of Wisconsin
that is not going to MU or Wisconsin.  Joey can take all the free trips he wants but will end up in state somewhere.  My feeling you have to go after kids that do not have
a great affiliation with an in-state program or there are so many kids in NY or out East that Syracuse can not get them all.  Cain was over recruited at Michigan, but if
they really wanted him, they could have had him.  He felt hurt and unappreciated at Michigan, perfect timing for MU.  John was easier, Minny weak coach, and Eke is
a project, and most projects are taken later, not early like MU did.  They needed big bodies, fit perfectly, and he might be the best of the class.  It would be nice to
get one more player so he could redshirt.

[jsglow]

One point is missing is when you take a one and done player to a school that does not replace a one and done player, like MU,  it really hurts the program.  Henry would
have been a great recruit if the team was experienced and he was the final cog on a good team.  But just like Carlino, now Ellenson, your best player is gone, and your
starting over in some respects.  This team you were not able to find a power forward to replace him.  Puts the team behind the 8 ball again, and next year with a very
young inexperienced team upfront, might be the same problem.  The turnaround might be 3 or 4 years from now.  That does not do it for me.

Now losing Tillman might be better in the long run to secure Joey.  Joey has a nice outside game, really a stretch 4.  The question I always have about a kid up north,
are they athletic enough against Big East competition?

There's a lot of truth in what you say.  Henry specifically was a 'mixed blessing'  But of course you happily accept any McD AA.  I'm really hoping that the 4/1 strategy works this year.  As to Carlino, thank goodness he came.  We would have won about 8 games that year without him.  Talk about support drying up.