Thread from UM chat board RE: Cain

[tower912]

http://forum.umhoops.com/t/2017-f-jamal-cain-offer/1908/166

They do a nice job of staying on topic.    Scroll to post 350 or so and a poster with inside knowledge describes how the Wolverines lost him and he ended up at MU.

[Skitch]

It took only 6 posts after the decision was announced for a poster to say "the staff cooled on him." Must be a Big 10 thing.

[PGsHeroes32]

http://forum.umhoops.com/t/2017-f-jamal-cain-offer/1908/166

They do a nice job of staying on topic.    Scroll to post 350 or so and a poster with inside knowledge describes how the Wolverines lost him and he ended up at MU.

Same guy seems to think we're getting Tillman.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Same guy seems to think we're getting Tillman.

Saw that. He's a Michigan insider so I don't know how accurate this would be. Then again, the Michigan State Insider for 247 thought Tillman was visiting next week and just moved his visit up. He claims Tillman is more likely than not going to commit on the visit.

[jsglow]

That's a pretty insightful board.

[We R Final Four]

Thanks for posting Tower. Great insight by MattD. I know he is a UM insider but that is very interesting that he feels Tillman is an MU lean.
Not knowing much about Cain, a lot of locals pissed he's not coming to their school.
#Wojoshowslove

[GooooMarquette]

That's a pretty insightful board.

Yep.  MattD in particular really seems to know quite a bit...about Jamal specifically, but also about recruiting generally.  I was also impressed that several of their posters are pretty familiar with our roster and where Jamal might fit in.

Loved MattD's description of the persistence of Wojo and staff once we see a recruit we want.  You can tell Wojo is an intense guy when you meet him, and that seems to carry through to his recruiting.

[naginiF]

That's a pretty insightful board.

Agree with you and Gooooo.  In addition i'm impressed that there was zero negative talk of other programs and MattD (if i remember correctly) made a great point about how academics when viewing schools is different for recruits as the #15 school or the #100 school is a vastly better learning environment than what they are experiencing in HS.  Therefore, the school rankings play a much lesser part than most alumni think.

Two funny takeaways:
1)  Every hoops board loves to take shots at the A10
2)  Our local Wojo haters haven't used the "maybe the issue is he's perceived as a racist" angle so be prepared for that to surface at some point

[UNC Eagle]

Sometimes a local player is not as appreciated as a player from farther away. I think that is the case with Michigan and Cain. They had a number of wings so they did not make him a top priority and they are still holding out hope of getting Mohamed Bamba as many pointed out.

It has all worked out for us and Cain as he is a huge pick up and will have an immediate opportunity to contribute.

[blikemike2]

Jamal's mom absolutely loved everything about UM and John Beilein. She loved the academics, the campus, and obviously its close to home. However, toward the end, even she conceded to me that it was like "night and day" between the Marquette and UM recruiting approach. Just not going to win many battles where you contact at such a low rate in relation to other schools. I don't think that makes much sense to anyone.


also see #342 from that Mich thread. MattD definitely seems to be the man over there


Great to see the tidbit on recruiting style. wojo and SJ have been terrific IMO

[mileskishnish72]

I was certainly never recruited to play college Bball, but if I were a touted prospect, I think I would find daily (or near so) contacts annoying. I'd prefer coaches to say what they are going to say, and then live with it.

But then again, I'm over 39. Perhaps if I were 17 I would have a different attitude. Even a talented, confident teenager has some insecurity, and perhaps the constant contact would help overcome that. It's always nice to feel wanted/important.

But I guess the frequent contact has to be genuine - it sounds like the Michigan coach is not comfortable with that. If he doesn't think he can do a good job keeping in touch, isn't that what assistants are for?

At any rate, Welcome, Jamal. Looking forward to seeing you in Blue and Gold (and screw the maize).

[rocky_warrior]

It has all worked out for us and Cain as he is a huge pick up and will have an immediate opportunity to contribute.

Tex / NY, why the new username?

[kryza]

That's a pretty insightful board.

MattD is great, he's one of the most reliable insider sources out there. The rest of the posters however...

The 11th post on that to topic had some guy actually trying to argue that Michigan can develop players into better PRO's and that UM is better in general than us and Xavier. I can deal with homers arguing about the second one, but how can diehard bball fans not know about our alums!?

[naginiF]

Tex / NY, why the new username?

Is it possible to get a tool like the Scholarship Table for Scoopers who change their name to reappear?  I honestly thought Ganakas was Marquette Fan in NY and was posting under two user names in the same thread.

[Brewtown Andy]

MattD is great, he's one of the most reliable insider sources out there. The rest of the posters however...

The 11th post on that to topic had some guy actually trying to argue that Michigan can develop players into better PRO's and that UM is better in general than us and Xavier. I can deal with homers arguing about the second one, but how can diehard bball fans not about our alums!?

Michigan had six guys drafted between 2011 & 2014.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Michigan had six guys drafted between 2011 & 2014.

Drafted, sure. Without looking it up, I can't think of one Michigan guy that's been even an above average pro. They've all sorta been busts.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Drafted, sure. Without looking it up, I can't think of one Michigan guy that's been even an above average pro. They've all sorta been busts.

In order of relevance (IMHO):
Trey Burke
Tim Hardaway Jr
Nik Stauskas
Ekpe Udoh (transferred to Baylor)
Manny Harris
Glenn Robinson III
Mitch McGary
Darius Morris

Trey Burke is a solid NBA player. Hardaway Jr and Staukas both have significant roles on their teams. The rest are meh.

[Marquette Fan in WI]

In order of relevance (IMHO):
Trey Burke
Tim Hardaway Jr
Nik Stauskas
Ekpe Udoh (transferred to Baylor)
Manny Harris
Glenn Robinson III
Mitch McGary
Darius Morris

Trey Burke is a solid NBA player. Hardaway Jr and Staukas both have significant roles on their teams. The rest are meh.

1. Robert Tractor Traylor

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

1. Robert Tractor Traylor

Limited it to players drafted from the current coaching regime.

[MU82]

I was certainly never recruited to play college Bball, but if I were a touted prospect, I think I would find daily (or near so) contacts annoying. I'd prefer coaches to say what they are going to say, and then live with it.

But then again, I'm over 39. Perhaps if I were 17 I would have a different attitude. Even a talented, confident teenager has some insecurity, and perhaps the constant contact would help overcome that. It's always nice to feel wanted/important.

But I guess the frequent contact has to be genuine - it sounds like the Michigan coach is not comfortable with that. If he doesn't think he can do a good job keeping in touch, isn't that what assistants are for?

At any rate, Welcome, Jamal. Looking forward to seeing you in Blue and Gold (and screw the maize).

I would think the good recruiters (and good judges of people) would be able to discern pretty early which recruits like constant contact and which want more "space," and would act accordingly.

[Brewtown Andy]

Drafted, sure. Without looking it up, I can't think of one Michigan guy that's been even an above average pro. They've all sorta been busts.

NBA busts, maybe. The original statement was "develop players into better pros."  6 NBA picks = 6 guys at least on the edge of NBA talent = 6 guys who can clearly go anywhere in the world and draw a paycheck.

Those are some pretty good results for Beilein.

Where the Michigan poster's argument falls apart is that Wojo hasn't had time to actually develop the guys he recruits.  Marquette historically, sure, but you can't compare Beilein's tenure to Wojo's, not yet.

[Marcus92]

About Cain's play, MattD says:

"He has NBA level athleticism, good shooter, and above average handle at that size. If Jamal can add 15lbs of muscle/strength he has more potential than anyone in our current 17 class in my opinion."

Sounds very promising. Athleticism and potential are a great combination. Let's see where Jamal is at a year from now.

[GOO]

About Cain's play, MattD says:

"He has NBA level athleticism, good shooter, and above average handle at that size. If Jamal can add 15lbs of muscle/strength he has more potential than anyone in our current 17 class in my opinion."

Sounds very promising. Athleticism and potential are a great combination. Let's see where Jamal is at a year from now.

Excited to have Cain in the fold.  That being said, in the limited video I saw of him, his jumper will need to be re-worked.  He jumps forward on his shot.  He is not square with his feet.  He twists his body... a lot of issues there.  When I raised this point about JJJ when he was coming in, pretty much everyone said he can shoot it so you don't mess with his shot.  So, maybe they see if he can use his current style at the D-1 level before they change it?  Or do they correct it from the beginning? 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Very excited about Cain's commitment!

That said, I am going to be patient with his development.  When Cain is a frosh, I don't expect him to play much.  Cohen, Cheatham, Anim, and Hauser are all similar size and will have the edge in experience, strength & conditioning, skill development and system familiarity.

I look for steady progress with Cain joining the rotation as a sophomore, starting as a junior and starring as a senior.

[JakeBarnes]

Same guy seems to think we're getting Tillman.

Where was that mentioned? Interesting information from him. Maybe we should introduce him to scoop as a guest poster when MUBB/UM/MSU are fighting over recruits.