Buying Services - New Cars

[Benny B]

So I ended up with two emailed offers at the end of the day.  The first was nearly $1000 below invoice and the second was only $600 below invoice... unfazed by the fact that 8 dealers didn't bother to respond, the wife and I headed to the closest dealer yesterday to test drive. 

When we arrived at the dealership, we didn't wait around for someone to come talk to us.... we b-lined straight to the counter (where both the sales rep and floor manager were standing) and made it very clear that a) we were ordering an Outback Touring today, b) we already knew they didn't have one on their lot, and c) we wanted to test drive the Limited model instead.  After a series of test drives to confirm that we had indeed picked out the car we wanted, we walked back inside and I told the salesperson that I had already emailed 10 other dealerships in the area (I didn't tell him how many offers I had) and the reason we were on their lot was because it was their sale to lose.  So having set the table for our "negotiations," I went straight to the turkey: I handed him a blank copy of the exact sheet I had emailed to the other dealers and said 'these are the options I want, let's price it out'... if there was going to be any haggling, that was the coup de grâce right there.  After doing some quick math, my guy told me the MSRP and invoice prices and asked me if my calculations matched... I told him they did.  At that point, he knew that I knew that he knew he wasn't dealing with some starry-eyed kid buying his first car, and it was smooth sailing from there.

He didn't even bother with an opening salvo (the old "here's what I'll do for you"); he told me he was going to get the out-the-door price, so he walked over to his floor manager and came back with a price that was only $80 higher than the lower quote I already had, but his OTD was less by a few hundred.  The clubhouse leader to that point must have padded his OTD, but my guy had no add-ons, no rust proofing, no VIN etching, no phantom charges, nothing.  Straight up, new car price.  I told him if he rounded the OTD down to the nearest hundred, basically knocking off $50 (because I like round numbers), it's his deal.  So a $500 deposit, a couple signatures, 15 minutes and a handshake later, we walked out having ordered a car for 2.5% below invoice.  I'm sure I could have haggled to knock off another hundred or two, but I was right in the wheelhouse of what others online were reporting they paid, and having experienced zero stress and none of the usual "salesmanship" bullshiite, we figured we weren't going to dip into his pocket any further and instead, simply called it a day.

The afternoon couldn't have gone any smoother.  Goes to show how a little pre-buy research and effort can put the enjoyment back into buying a car.

[MU82]

So I ended up with two emailed offers at the end of the day.  The first was nearly $1000 below invoice and the second was only $600 below invoice... unfazed by the fact that 8 dealers didn't bother to respond, the wife and I headed to the closest dealer yesterday to test drive. 

When we arrived at the dealership, we didn't wait around for someone to come talk to us.... we b-lined straight to the counter (where both the sales rep and floor manager were standing) and made it very clear that a) we were ordering an Outback Touring today, b) we already knew they didn't have one on their lot, and c) we wanted to test drive the Limited model instead.  After a series of test drives to confirm that we had indeed picked out the car we wanted, we walked back inside and I told the salesperson that I had already emailed 10 other dealerships in the area (I didn't tell him how many offers I had) and the reason we were on their lot was because it was their sale to lose.  So having set the table for our "negotiations," I went straight to the turkey: I handed him a blank copy of the exact sheet I had emailed to the other dealers and said 'these are the options I want, let's price it out'... if there was going to be any haggling, that was the coup de grâce right there.  After doing some quick math, my guy told me the MSRP and invoice prices and asked me if my calculations matched... I told him they did.  At that point, he knew that I knew that he knew he wasn't dealing with some starry-eyed kid buying his first car, and it was smooth sailing from there.

He didn't even bother with an opening salvo (the old "here's what I'll do for you"); he told me he was going to get the out-the-door price, so he walked over to his floor manager and came back with a price that was only $80 higher than the lower quote I already had, but his OTD was less by a few hundred.  The clubhouse leader to that point must have padded his OTD, but my guy had no add-ons, no rust proofing, no VIN etching, no phantom charges, nothing.  Straight up, new car price.  I told him if he rounded the OTD down to the nearest hundred, basically knocking off $50 (because I like round numbers), it's his deal.  So a $500 deposit, a couple signatures, 15 minutes and a handshake later, we walked out having ordered a car for 2.5% below invoice.  I'm sure I could have haggled to knock off another hundred or two, but I was right in the wheelhouse of what others online were reporting they paid, and having experienced zero stress and none of the usual "salesmanship" bullshiite, we figured we weren't going to dip into his pocket any further and instead, simply called it a day.

The afternoon couldn't have gone any smoother.  Goes to show how a little pre-buy research and effort can put the enjoyment back into buying a car.

Nicely done, Benny!

I hope our car-buying experience goes just as smoothly.

[reinko]

So I ended up with two emailed offers at the end of the day.  The first was nearly $1000 below invoice and the

The afternoon couldn't have gone any smoother.  Goes to show how a little pre-buy research and effort can put the enjoyment back into buying a car.

This +1,000.

82, check out this subreddit too, was very helpful in my car buying.

https://www.reddit.com/r/askcarsales/

[StillAWarrior]

I'm sure I could have haggled to knock off another hundred or two, but I was right in the wheelhouse of what others online were reporting they paid, and having experienced zero stress and none of the usual "salesmanship" bullshiite, we figured we weren't going to dip into his pocket any further and instead, simply called it a day.

The afternoon couldn't have gone any smoother.  Goes to show how a little pre-buy research and effort can put the enjoyment back into buying a car.

This is one of the things that I've liked about handling everything on the internet before going to the dealership.  In my experience, it made the entire process much less of a hassle and less stressful.  Maybe I left a few dollars on the table, maybe not.  I felt that I got a fair deal so I went with it.  So many people complain about how adversarial the entire process is, but then the walk into a dealership and fight with them for the last dollar.  I'd rather just make the entire process a little more relaxed, even if I could have saved a few bucks here or there.  Maybe the salesmen love me and think I'm a sucker, but I can live with that.

I did have one great email exchange with a salesperson two cars ago when he wouldn't give me the numbers I was asking for.  The beauty of email is it lives forever - I actually just went back and re-read it.  I was planning to lease and wanted all the different variables (i.e., sale price, payment, down payment, fees, mileage, etc.) because you can see where they're putting money.  All he'd give me was the monthly payment, and none of the other numbers.  He couldn't understand why anything else mattered to me.  Ultimately he concluded I wasn't really in the market and blew me off.  I got the exact same car that weekend from another dealer.  I think he was new and really didn't understand why I wanted the other numbers.

[rocket surgeon]

The nice thing about car gurus is they tell you if it is a fair deal or not and by how much either way.  Where gurus get their numbers, I don't know.  But at least when you leave the dealer with a car, ya don't feel like ya got to check to see if you're wearing the pants ya walked in with.  Rule# 1-don't go car shopping commando, especially if it's a little nippy out, eyna?

[Benny B]

The nice thing about car gurus is they tell you if it is a fair deal or not and by how much either way.  Where gurus get their numbers, I don't know.  But at least when you leave the dealer with a car, ya don't feel like ya got to check to see if you're wearing the pants ya walked in with.  Rule# 1-don't go car shopping commando, especially if it's a little nippy out, eyna?

I checked out the pricing on Car Gurus and True Car... their reported "average" price paid in both cases was above invoice.  I find that hard to believe, unless their pricing skews California where it's almost impossible to get a Subaru below invoice.  That said, for other makes these two sites may be extremely helpful, but if you want a good yardstick for what others are actually paying, your best bet is to go to the customer/enthusiast online forums for your specific car (most of the popular makes/models have their own site that is in no way affiliated with the mfg or any dealer) and see what people are actually reporting.


And for anyone who's interested, here's the template I used.  If anyone decides to copy off mine, please feel free to do so but bear in mind I only received a 20% response rate, so there may have been something off-putting about the template (perhaps it was the lack of my name and/or phone number on the template - although I did put my full name on the email, I did specifically request no calls since I didn't want to give out my phone number in the first go-around); in any event YMMV.

[MU82]

reinko -- Thanks for that link. Very interesting site and I think it will be useful.

Benny -- Thanks for the template; I like it! Also a great suggestion to go to the forums for different makes and models. I did that a few years ago and it was very helpful.

[rocket surgeon]

I checked out the pricing on Car Gurus and True Car... their reported "average" price paid in both cases was above invoice.  I find that hard to believe, unless their pricing skews California where it's almost impossible to get a Subaru below invoice.  That said, for other makes these two sites may be extremely helpful, but if you want a good yardstick for what others are actually paying, your best bet is to go to the customer/enthusiast online forums for your specific car (most of the popular makes/models have their own site that is in no way affiliated with the mfg or any dealer) and see what people are actually reporting.


And for anyone who's interested, here's the template I used.  If anyone decides to copy off mine, please feel free to do so but bear in mind I only received a 20% response rate, so there may have been something off-putting about the template (perhaps it was the lack of my name and/or phone number on the template - although I did put my full name on the email, I did specifically request no calls since I didn't want to give out my phone number in the first go-around); in any event YMMV.

Good to know-thanks.  I just finished using them to look for a used jeep.  Found a beauty that seemed consistent with everything I was looking at and I probably looked at a hundred or more online.  Got an all black 09 Sahara hard top with the freedom panels.  Many comment that it looks brand new.  I wouldn't hesitate to use gurus again for used vehicle, but for new ones, thanks for the info

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Am I the only one who read "Buying Services" and immediately thought "JB would be the resident expert"?

[Coleman]

And of course all good ideas originate from Scoop....just announced today

amazon.com/vehicles

[mu03eng]

Good to know-thanks.  I just finished using them to look for a used jeep.  Found a beauty that seemed consistent with everything I was looking at and I probably looked at a hundred or more online.  Got an all black 09 Sahara hard top with the freedom panels.  Many comment that it looks brand new.  I wouldn't hesitate to use gurus again for used vehicle, but for new ones, thanks for the info

Manual?

I'm trying to convince the wife character that a manual Jeep is perfectly safe to transport a 10 month old in. May have to live vicariously through you. 

[rocket surgeon]

Manual?

I'm trying to convince the wife character that a manual Jeep is perfectly safe to transport a 10 month old in. May have to live vicariously through you. 

transmission?  automatic.  i learned how to drive and took my test with a 3 on the tree and had many a manual transmission thereafter.  got sick n tired of trying drive and shift in stop n go traffic spilling coffee all over the place.  texting is a bitch as well

[WI inferiority Complexes]

Manual?

I'm trying to convince the wife character that a manual Jeep is perfectly safe to transport a 10 month old in. May have to live vicariously through you. 

I'll get you a great deal on a beautiful, stick-shift Wrangler Unlimited.  Only 4,200 miles.  Firecracker Red.

[Jay Bee]

transmission?  automatic.  i learned how to drive and took my test with a 3 on the tree and had many a manual transmission thereafter.  got sick n tired of trying drive and shift in stop n go traffic spilling coffee all over the place.  texting is a bitch as well

I started off driving a stick too (nh). It's stupid for most people to do, similar to using chopsticks when you have a fork.

Girls got angry bc my strong biceps & forearm got I their way while they tried to give dat road heezy

[martyconlonontherun]

I'm in the process of buying a new car and ran into something I've never seen before.  A local dealership got a model exactly like we want, but it was damaged at the factory/during transport.  The dented/scratched panel was repaired, and now they're selling it as a "Certified Used" with only 20 miles on it.  Seems like a decent deal, we save a couple thousand bucks, and actually get an extra year of warranty because of the Certified Used status.  I've just never seen this policy of selling a new car as used before.

When I worked at a car dealership, the used to take non-selling cars and give them to service as a service car for customers, depreciated the value as a business expense and sold the car as a certified used car. It would happen a couple times a month. Not a bad deal for the end buyer as I doubt people are going to a dealer for repairs are likely to abuse the rental they have get to go to work.

[4everwarriors]

transmission?  automatic.  i learned how to drive and took my test with a 3 on the tree and had many a manual transmission thereafter.  got sick n tired of trying drive and shift in stop n go traffic spilling coffee all over the place.  texting is a bitch as well

Eat chit, AT&T, ai na?

[rocket surgeon]

I started off driving a stick too (nh). It's stupid for most people to do, similar to using chopsticks when you have a fork.

Girls got angry bc my strong biceps & forearm got I their way while they tried to give dat road heezy

LOLOL...and that too   My first car in h.s. A '69 Pontiac tempest Had the ole bench seats and then put the 3 on the tree??  What a waist of da bench seat then Eyn'a?  Ya know how hard it is to find a cute little gymnast on a Saturday night

[Benny B]

First car I drove was an 85 'Vette, stick shift.


"Vette" of course, being short for the Chevrolet Chevette.

[warriorchick]

Automatic transmissions are for pu$$ies.

[rocket surgeon]

Automatic transmissions are for pu$$ies.

No, I thought stick shifts were

[4everwarriors]

Saw dat movie back in da dey at da Parkway, hey?

[mu03eng]

Automatic transmissions are for pu$$ies.

[mu03eng]

I'll get you a great deal on a beautiful, stick-shift Wrangler Unlimited.  Only 4,200 miles.  Firecracker Red.

What year?

[Spotcheck Billy]

When I worked at a car dealership, the used to take non-selling cars and give them to service as a service car for customers, depreciated the value as a business expense and sold the car as a certified used car. It would happen a couple times a month. Not a bad deal for the end buyer as I doubt people are going to a dealer for repairs are likely to abuse the rental they have get to go to work.

What?! I guess I'm different then, every loaner/rental I drive, I drive it like I stole it since I won't abuse my vehicle like that.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

What year?

2015

http://www.haggertybuickgmc.com/VehicleDetails/used-2015-Jeep-Wrangler_Unlimited-4WD_4dr_Sport-Villa_Park-IL/2812521823