What's your all-time Marquette team?

[CTWarrior]

Key was very good - underrated IMO.

Still, it was McIlvaine, not Key, who won Great Midwest POY in '93-'94.  Key was second team.  And McIlvaine not only led MU in blocks that year, he also led by a bit in RPG (8.3 to 7.9).  So apparently a bunch of folks put McIlvaine over Key....

They did play four years, not just one.

[GooooMarquette]

They did play four years, not just one.

Yes, they did.

Bigs take longer to develop.  Key was more ready out of HS, but when they peaked, Mac was a more dominating player.

[Marcus92]

Results updated. With 28 Scoopers voting, Wade has taken a narrow lead at the top of the list:

G Wade (126)
C Chones (123)
F Lucas (99)
F Ellis (97)
G Lee (90)

Pretty strong consensus seems to be emerging around those 5 players. Meminger is the clear #6 so far at 76 points. Then there's a pretty big drop-off to Thompson (42), Crowder (35), Rivers (34), Tatum (27), Kojis (26), Diener (23) and Whitehead (18). That's in part explained by many Scoopers only voting for a 1st team.

That would make for one tough 13-man roster, including 11 All-Americans. (So tough, in fact, that All-Americans Jerel McNeal and Sam Worthen don't make the cut.) Pretty well-balanced, too. Great ball handlers, scorers and passers in Wade, Lee, Meminger, Thompson, Rivers, Tatum and Diener. Plus the rebounding and inside play of Chones, Lucas, Ellis, Crowder, Kojis and Whitehead.

Keep the votes coming!

[Marcus92]

It's worth noting that both Doc Rivers and Travis Diener were named to the AP Honorable Mention All-American team in 1982-83 and 2004-05, respectively.

[dgies9156]

I believe the quality of play in college basketball was far better in the McGuire Era. You had have an incredible team to even make the tournament. There were no one and dones, most teams were upper class-men heavy. For several years freshman were not even eligible. Also I think the quality of teams we played back in the day was quite good. Teams change over time. For example Detroit which would be a cupcake today was one hell of an opponent back then. Our cupcakes were not that bad back then.

Marquette basketball during the McGuire era was something very special. The Crean to Hillbilly run was very good quality and hopefully Wojo can get us back to that level.

I disagree about the McGuire era quality of play. In those days, there were about five to seven really great teams and fall-off thereafter was huge. The fact that we were like 50-1 during the Chones era speaks for itself. Even the one-and-done teams of Slick Rick Pitino don't do that. Ditto for North Carolina, Duke and Florida. There is too much talent and it is far more distributed today than it was in 1966-1980 era. While Kentucky, Duke and North Carolina have won more than their proportionate share of national titles, the fact is that non-historical powerhouses like the Rodent, Florida, Texas etc., have all snuck in and made a strong impact.

Blame the Big East for some of that -- both current and historical.

I would agree with the general conclusion though that the Top 16 McGuire era players would be dominant in today's world. And, far fewer of them would have gone to Marquette than in the era from 1966-1977. We were successful because Marquette was open to all and because McGuire recognized talent, no matter where it came from and no matter what the race was of the players.

The reality of the day was that most SEC, ACC and other southern schools during the McGuire era, did not recruit African American athletes. Those that did had serious issues with making African American players part of the broader college community. Ray Mears at the University of Tennessee, for example, didn't recruit African-American athletes until after he had his backside handed to him by Al in 1971.

[Marcus92]

Also, it seems very clear — even based on an informal, completely unscientific poll — that Jim Chones deserves to have his jersey retired.

I never had the chance to see him play. But based on everything I've read, he was absolutely one of the greatest players to ever wear a Marquette uniform.

The Warriors' record during his two seasons: 53-5 (.914), including two consecutive Sweet 16 appearances. After earning All-American honors as a junior in 1972, he went on to enjoy a long and successful pro career — averaging 12.5 ppg and 8.2 rpg over 10 seasons, including an NBA title with the L.A. Lakers in 1980. He later served as a radio and TV analyst for the Cleveland Cavaliers.

True, he only played at MU for two years. But so did Maurice Lucas and Dwyane Wade. For what it's worth, Chones averaged more rebounds per game during his Marquette career (11.7) than Lucas (10.7) or Ellis (9.1).

What can we do to help make this happen?

[CTWarrior]

Also, it seems very clear — even based on an informal, completely unscientific poll — that Jim Chones deserves to have his number retired.

I never had the chance to see him play. But based on everything I've read, he was absolutely one of the greatest players to ever wear a Marquette uniform.

The Warriors' record during his two seasons: 53-5 (.914), including two consecutive Sweet 16 appearances. After earning All-American honors as a junior in 1972, he went on to enjoy a long and successful pro career — averaging 12.5 ppg and 8.2 rpg over 10 seasons, including an NBA title with the L.A. Lakers in 1980. He later served as a radio and TV analyst for the Cleveland Cavaliers.

True, he only played at MU for two years. But so did Wade.

What can we do to help make this happen?

I think the big difference between Chones and Wade is that Chones did not finish his second season.  I understand the money was too good to pass up, but I also understand from MU's POV that leaving the team early could be a disqualifier.

[MerrittsMustache]

Also, it seems very clear — even based on an informal, completely unscientific poll — that Jim Chones deserves to have his jersey retired.

I never had the chance to see him play. But based on everything I've read, he was absolutely one of the greatest players to ever wear a Marquette uniform.

If the decision was made to retire Wade's number without him earning a degree, then there's no doubt that Chones, one of the program's only 1st Team All-Americans, should have his number up there as well.

Sidenote: I'm a believer that MU should only retire the numbers of 1st Team AAs while honoring others'.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

If the decision was made to retire Wade's number without him earning a degree, then there's no doubt that Chones, one of the program's only 1st Team All-Americans, should have his number up there as well.

Sidenote: I'm a believer that MU should only retire the numbers of 1st Team AAs while honoring others'.

The purpose in my mind these days is to honor & remember your great players.  I agree that since the precedent was re-set with Wade - you have to look at Chones.  Not honoring one of your best solely because pro basketball was goofy during that time period does not make sense in today's world.

I support your second point but I think it is too late for that now correct?

[Marcus92]

I think the big difference between Chones and Wade is that Chones did not finish his second season.  I understand the money was too good to pass up, but I also understand from MU's POV that leaving the team early could be a disqualifier.

I don't buy this argument. Imagine that Henry Ellenson led us to a national title as a freshman before declaring for the NBA. MU would be crazy not to even consider retiring his jersey.

Was Chones one of the greatest players to wear a Marquette uniform or not? Seems like that should be the first criterion.

[Goose]

My only picking old players, aside from Wade, is because the old players made far bigger impact during the MU years. In last 30 years few players really stand out as all time greats. There have been a lot of good players but not program changing players.

I believe 100% that Wade was greatest talent we ever had at MU. Short career and all he has to be on first team. If not for Wade I would have struggled picking between  Dean, Tatum or George.

[CTWarrior]

I don't buy this argument. Imagine that Henry Ellenson led us to a national title as a freshman before declaring for the NBA. MU would be crazy not to even consider retiring his jersey.

Was Chones one of the greatest players to wear a Marquette uniform or not? Seems like that should be the first criterion.

When I say early, I mean in the middle of a season.  The ABA's weird draft rules designed to get a jump on the NBA was the cause, but abandoning the team in the middle of the season means something, I think.  (I realize abandon is a strong word, but it is what happened).  I totally understand Jim's decision and wouldn't argue with it, but I also understand the POV that would not retire the number.  I wouldn't have a problem with it whichever way the University decided to go.

[MerrittsMustache]

The purpose in my mind these days is to honor & remember your great players.  I agree that since the precedent was re-set with Wade - you have to look at Chones.  Not honoring one of your best solely because pro basketball was goofy during that time period does not make sense in today's world.

I support your second point but I think it is too late for that now correct?

Correct. IMO, it's too late to go back and "unretire" most of those numbers and then "honor" them instead.

[GGGG]

If the decision was made to retire Wade's number without him earning a degree, then there's no doubt that Chones, one of the program's only 1st Team All-Americans, should have his number up there as well.

Sidenote: I'm a believer that MU should only retire the numbers of 1st Team AAs while honoring others'.

Did Doc earn his degree?

[BrewCity83]

Most exciting players:

1st Team:
Artie Green
Dwyane Wade
Sam Worthen
Terry Reason
George Thompson

2nd Team:
Doc Rivers
Lloyd Walton
Jae Crowder
Mandy Johnson
Joe Nethen

3rd Team:
Earl Tatum
Dean Meminger
Jerel McNeal
Larry McNeill
Michael Wilson
Wesley Matthews (tie)

[GooooMarquette]

Most exciting players:

1st Team:
Artie Green
Dwyane Wade
Sam Worthen
Terry Reason
George Thompson

2nd Team:
Doc Rivers
Lloyd Walton
Jae Crowder
Mandy Johnson
Joe Nethen

3rd Team:
Earl Tatum
Dean Meminger
Jerel McNeal
Larry McNeill
Michael Wilson
Wesley Matthews (tie)

Seems like Dominic ought to be somewhere on this list....

[CTWarrior]

Seems like Dominic ought to be somewhere on this list....

and Aaron Hutchins was a fun, exciting guy.  The NIT finals team where it finally occurred to Deane to play Hutchins, Miller and Pieper together was an exciting backcourt to watch, or at least I thought so.

Great call on Artie Green.

[Marcus92]

Seems like Dominic ought to be somewhere on this list....

Definitely. I'd even nominate DJO and Vander, especially early in their careers. The athleticism and talent was there. But until they learned how to recognize the pace of an opponent, you were either going to see an amazing play, or a horrible one (offensive foul, travel, turnover).

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

When I say early, I mean in the middle of a season.  The ABA's weird draft rules designed to get a jump on the NBA was the cause, but abandoning the team in the middle of the season means something, I think.  (I realize abandon is a strong word, but it is what happened).  I totally understand Jim's decision and wouldn't argue with it, but I also understand the POV that would not retire the number.  I wouldn't have a problem with it whichever way the University decided to go.

That's where I am at with it. Its not about not earning his degree, its about leaving the team in the middle of the season.

[Benny B]

Rob Frozena enough said.

Exactly.  Every team needs a walk-on to keep the GPA average up.

[Herman Cain]

That's where I am at with it. Its not about not earning his degree, its about leaving the team in the middle of the season.

Al encouraged him to leave.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Al encouraged him to leave.

That doesn't matter to me at all in the purposes of this discussion.

[Goose]

BrewCity

My all time exciting list is:

Artie #1 by wide margin
Wade
Doc
Sam Worthen
Dominic James

[dgies9156]

Also, it seems very clear — even based on an informal, completely unscientific poll — that Jim Chones deserves to have his jersey retired.

I absolutely and totally agree.

One recognizes that Mr. Chones' tenure was 1.75 years. But he was A force. The fact that almost no one who knows Marquette basketball since the dawn of the McGuire era has left Mr. Chones off the Top 5 -- and we have had some great centers in Jerome and Jim -- speaks volumes to his ability. Had he stayed, we might have had multiple consecutive NCAA Championships. I sometimes wonder what his senior year would have been like with a front line of Jim Chones, Larry McNeill and Maurice Lucas.

In terms of talent, we would have been as good as the 1982 North Carolina team with Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins and James Worthy.  But I digress.

I suspect the real reason he's not up there is the residual bad feeling over his departure. My recollection may be foggy, but the extent to which Al McGuire advised him to leave at the time he did was not known when he left and (my memory may be fading) was not fully known for some time thereafter. McGuire at the time, I recall, said his family needed the revenue from the NBA contract. I suspect a lot of us at the time had trouble believing that and thought the departure was a defection and greed. It was a big deal then and, with the benefit of hindsight, a much bigger deal later.

That said, Mr. Chones was a "man for others." He dealt with his family first. We should honor that and honor what he did for our team in the 1970s. Plus, he's a Wisconsin guy. Honor him with a banner up next to Bo Ellis' and Maurice Lucas'.

Do it this winter!

[drewm88]

Most exciting players:

1st Team:
Artie Green
Dwyane Wade
Sam Worthen
Terry Reason
George Thompson

2nd Team:
Doc Rivers
Lloyd Walton
Jae Crowder
Mandy Johnson
Joe Nethen

3rd Team:
Earl Tatum
Dean Meminger
Jerel McNeal
Larry McNeill
Michael Wilson
Wesley Matthews (tie)

Dom, DJO, and Trend Blackledge!