[Matt Velazquez] Marquette ranks 21st in 2015-'16 men's basketball attendance

[Jay Bee]

Mmkay, could you expand on that?

It doesn't make any sense.

Here's the question: how many season tickets were sold?

Is your answer, "I don't know, but I am guessing there were close to zero non-season tickets purchased for Grambling"?

Sounds like a wild guess.

[jsglow]

"Conceivably zero"???

No, there were not zero.

Your analysis of 20:1 is also silly

Why is this board getting so assclownish?Topper meant fewer than 100, not worth counting. Everyone understands, his point stands,  and you, sir, are simply being a D. 

[Jay Bee]

Why is this board getting so assclownish?Topper meant fewer than 100, not worth counting. Everyone understands, his point stands,  and you, sir, are simply being a D.

He meant fewer than 100? I don't believe that is the right number, if that's what he meant. How do you get to such a small number?

[Da 'Lanche]

One other factor with Creighton (my daughter is a senior), students get in for free (as they do for the soccer games which are huge there).   It is a great perk for students who have really enjoyed the increased visibility and competition since joining the Big East...drives up attendance...and adds to a lively atmosphere.    With a full student section at most games plus a community that really supports them (and an arena right by campus and downtown) the environment is great.

I always wished MU would do something similar for students  but it is a much larger enrollment and probably impossible to do economically or logistically.

[mu_hilltopper]

He meant fewer than 100? I don't believe that is the right number, if that's what he meant. How do you get to such a small number?

Conceivably zero.  A handful.  Maybe 100.  Heck, double that to 200 or 500, and the %ages barely change.

Ok, how many walk-ups do you think plunked down full retail on a Grambling State on a dark December Wednesday during a weak season? 

And aren't these hearty bball enthusiasts scalping tickets with the secondary market awash in discounts?  I couldn't sell any cupcake game for more than $10 a seat for lowers.

[Jay Bee]

Conceivably zero.  A handful.  Maybe 100.  Heck, double that to 200 or 500, and the %ages barely change.

Ok, how many walk-ups do you think plunked down full retail on a Grambling State on a dark December Wednesday during a weak season? 

And aren't these hearty bball enthusiasts scalping tickets with the secondary market awash in discounts?  I couldn't sell any cupcake game for more than $10 a seat for lowers.

Accepting 500, you just dropped your estimate of season ticket holders by 4.3% without giving it a second thought. That's not insignificant... what if the real figure is 1,000? 1,500? 2,000?

[Herman Cain]

Three hour drive one way is not short for a sporting event. The College World Series doesn't come close to overlapping Creighton's season. Jays get 16,000 a game, which is outstanding, but it's not like they're Syracuse.

As ever, you're wide of the mark on a subject.

You were not reading the whole chain of comments. College World Series and KC Royals combined is a comp to the Brewers in Milwaukee that was Cited. Chiefs a comp to the Packers and yes Nebraska people make the trek for those events and are very loyal to the Royals.  Just pointing out some apples to apples comparisons on the notion that there is no competition for the sports dollar in Omaha versus Milwaukee. The only real difference is the Bucks. Yet we have a 1,000,000 more people to draw from.

Not saying anything other than we should explore some of Creighton marketing mechanisms.  They have a very dedicated and consistent fan support . I was at a very lousy game in December with the entire place every seat filled.

[GGGG]

You were not reading the whole chain of comments. College World Series and KC Royals combined is a comp to the Brewers in Milwaukee that was Cited. Chiefs a comp to the Packers and yes Nebraska people make the trek for those events and are very loyal to the Royals.  Just pointing out some apples to apples comparisons on the notion that there is no competition for the sports dollar in Omaha versus Milwaukee.

So you are saying that the Kansas City Royals, who are located nearly 200 miles away from Omaha, provide an apples to apples comparison to the Brewers who are actually in Milwaukee?

[mu_hilltopper]

Accepting 500, you just dropped your estimate of season ticket holders by 4.3% without giving it a second thought. That's not insignificant... what if the real figure is 1,000? 1,500? 2,000?

I don't accept 500.  I think it's very close to zero people buying a walk-up on a Wednesday cupcake in December, especially with a flood of scalpers around.   You apparently disagree, but won't divulge your very superior opinion.

I also don't think 4.3% or even triple that theoretical error significantly changes the thesis: season ticket holders account for the VAST amount of ticket sales.   My guess was 87%.  Again, what do you think? 

[GGGG]

There is a difference between a "walk up," which IMO are people literally walking up to buy tickets.  I agree there are not many of those.

However I think there would be at least 500 people buying an advance single game ticket to Grambling...or any other game.

[Daniel]

I thought I saw somewhere a few years ago that there were about 5,000 season ticket holders.  Sounded low but that's what I recall.  Might be wrong. Don't know

[Jay Bee]

There is a difference between a "walk up," which IMO are people literally walking up to buy tickets.  I agree there are not many of those.

However I think there would be at least 500 people buying an advance single game ticket to Grambling...or any other game.

Exactly.

Hilltopper is throwing out a guess with nothing to support it but his gut. He may be right, but I don't believe it.

Would be nice to find out how many season ticket holders there were last year and prior years... can anyone hook that information up (besides Topper and his 'only STH seats were used for the Grambling game' calc)?

Teams use crap like Groupon, small combo packs, etc.. I don't know if MU did anything like that last year.. but.. I just don't believe the "well there's basically no seats used for Grambling other than STH seats and therefore, the attendance at that game gives you the STH seats" theory.

[mu_hilltopper]

Exactly.

Hilltopper is throwing out a guess with nothing to support it but his gut. He may be right, but I don't believe it.

And so, what's your guess?

[Golden Avalanche]

You were not reading the whole chain of comments. College World Series and KC Royals combined is a comp to the Brewers in Milwaukee that was Cited. Chiefs a comp to the Packers and yes Nebraska people make the trek for those events and are very loyal to the Royals.  Just pointing out some apples to apples comparisons on the notion that there is no competition for the sports dollar in Omaha versus Milwaukee. The only real difference is the Bucks. Yet we have a 1,000,000 more people to draw from.

Not saying anything other than we should explore some of Creighton marketing mechanisms.  They have a very dedicated and consistent fan support . I was at a very lousy game in December with the entire place every seat filled.

I've been going to Omaha for 25 years and this is compete nonsense. Apples to apples, my ass. You're not even in the same orchard. 

[Herman Cain]

I've been going to Omaha for 25 years and this is compete nonsense. Apples to apples, my ass. You're not even in the same orchard.

So have I and I disagree with your analysis. By the way check out how far people travel to a Brewer Or Cub game and you will be surprised .

People are making it out as if there is nothing else to do in Omaha and that is why Creighton attendence is relatively high. There are plenty of other options for the sports dollar in Omaha.

The real point here is we spend 10 million on basketball and we deserve a first class marketing effort to get our seats filled. That  8-)is not happening and I feel there is room for improvement.

[brewcity77]

Conceivably zero.  A handful.  Maybe 100.  Heck, double that to 200 or 500, and the %ages barely change.

Ok, how many walk-ups do you think plunked down full retail on a Grambling State on a dark December Wednesday during a weak season? 

And aren't these hearty bball enthusiasts scalping tickets with the secondary market awash in discounts?  I couldn't sell any cupcake game for more than $10 a seat for lowers.

There is no way it was close to 500. That game was a ghost town, especially in the upper decks. The lowers aren't available for walk-up sales and the upper deck was empty. At most 4,000 people in the stands and 90% were lower bowl. I think 100 walk-ups would be a gross overexaggeration. The weather also sucked, right around freezing with a rain/sleet mix. That was one of the worst attended games I've ever been to.

[Dawson Rental]

And so, what's your guess?

Jay Bee don't play that game.

If there are offical MU attendance figures with a STH/walkup breakout anywhere on the internet, we'll hear something from him eventually.  If not, he'll just continue to poke holes in the methdology of others until such figures are available.  For better or worse, that's Jay Bee.

[Dawson Rental]

There is no way it was close to 500. That game was a ghost town, especially in the upper decks. The lowers aren't available for walk-up sales and the upper deck was empty. At most 4,000 people in the stands and 90% were lower bowl. I think 100 walk-ups would be a gross overexaggeration. The weather also sucked, right around freezing with a rain/sleet mix. That was one of the worst attended games I've ever been to.

A great description of what a bummer of a game Grambling was.  While Grambling met two important criteria - 1) They were unlikely to beat even a freshman based team, and 2) they were willling to play a buy game - such games do have a negative effect on the MU basketball brand, and as the scheduling discussions have indicated they devalue season tickets.

[Benny B]

Has somebody yet run the analysis of the RPI impact between going 10-0 vs. the RPI 250+ and going 8-2 vs. the RPI 100-200.

Brew77... I'm looking your way.

[Jay Bee]

Has somebody yet run the analysis of the RPI impact between going 10-0 vs. the RPI 250+ and going 8-2 vs. the RPI 100-200.

Brew77... I'm looking your way.

Invalid analysis. Your opponent's RPI does not impact your own.

[GGGG]

Has somebody yet run the analysis of the RPI impact between going 10-0 vs. the RPI 250+ and going 8-2 vs. the RPI 100-200.

Using RPI Wizard, I dropped the following teams from Marquette's schedule:

Grambling (350)
Maine (317)
Chicago State (348)
Presbyterian (319)
Stetson (303)

I then added:

Murray State (170)
Hampton (160)
Tennessee State (150)
UNC Asheville (140)
Columbia (130)

If they win all four, their RPI would have been 71.  If they win all but the Murray State game, their RPI would have been 79.  (Their actual RPI was 110)

Enough to get them into the NIT but not the NCAA.

[jsglow]

Every year there is one game that serves as a proxy for season tickets sold as the sale of an individual ticket for that game approaches zero. For a game like Gambling, that number might be 10 or 50 but there is zero chance that it is 500.  Brew was right.  I could have counted everyone there by halftime.  Heck, I would have made a dent simply by counting chick and I.

I'm not sure how often some of you get to games at the BC. But if you're watching from afar on your 55 inch, I suggest deferring to folks who are there every night when ticket discussions pop up.

[brewcity77]

Has somebody yet run the analysis of the RPI impact between going 10-0 vs. the RPI 250+ and going 8-2 vs. the RPI 100-200.

Brew77... I'm looking your way.

Jay Bee is right that RPI isn't the actual calculation, but in terms of scheduling teams expected to be better, Sultan is also right that it would have only taken adjusting 4-5 teams to get us into the NIT, and put us in a position that had we got a winning Big East record (say beat DePaul and Creighton) we would have been dancing.

I'm actually working on a much bigger project regarding scheduling, but that's a whole different headache.

[Jay Bee]

Every year there is one game that serves as a proxy for season tickets sold as the sale of an individual ticket for that game approaches zero. For a game like Gambling, that number might be 10 or 50 but there is zero chance that it is 500.  Brew was right.  I could have counted everyone there by halftime.  Heck, I would have made a dent simply by counting chick and I.

I'm not sure how often some of you get to games at the BC. But if you're watching from afar on your 55 inch, I suggest deferring to folks who are there every night when ticket discussions pop up.

If attendance is based on tickets sold, then why would those who attend every game have done superior knowledge as to all "ticket discussions"?

There is not "zero chance" that there were 500 non-season tickets sold for the Grambling game. You're guessing without a logical basis.

[jsglow]

If attendance is based on tickets sold, then why would those who attend every game have done superior knowledge as to all "ticket discussions"?

There is not "zero chance" that there were 500 non-season tickets sold for the Grambling game. You're guessing without a logical basis.

Yeah. You're right.