Warriors vs Cavaliers II

[wadesworld]

Nagin, when are you going to break the news to these guys?

[naginiF]

It's an old article but none the less it applies today and transcends from college to the NBA, from the New York Times........

Timeout Tactics Include Seating and Setting
By JOHN BRANCHMARCH 23, 2009

Basketball coaches diagram plays and demand that they be run with precision. More than ever, that includes the action when the game stops.

The timeout may be the most orchestrated part of a college basketball game....................

...........The only consistency is that everyone knows what the coach wants. It has been rehearsed, like a pick-and-roll or a zone trap.

"Before the first game, I remember vividly in practice, he said, 'This is what we're going to do during timeouts, I don't care if there are TV cameras around or not...we are going to draw up the play that we are executing.  Show it on the jumbotron for all I care.  Hell, invite the other team over to see it - It's called coaching!!! Anyone afraid to show their hand shouldn't be coaching at the local Y' " the Texas A&M athletic assistant Dustin Clark said of Coach Mark Turgeon.

[MU82]

I'm torn about Cleveland.

On the one hand, I'd like to see great, loyal fans finally be rewarded.

On the other, there's something "romantic" about the kind of "forever angst" being felt by Cleveland fans -- and Cubbie fans, and formerly Red Sox fans, etc.

I know it's not a "romantic" notion to Clevelanders, but to outsiders it is.

Having said all that, I think I'd like to see the Cavs do it. I absolutely do not hate LeBron -- I really enjoy watching him play and think that, in a weird way, he's almost been underrated. I love watching Curry, too, but I find myself getting a little tired of the Golden State bandwagon jumpers.

I'm hoping for a great series, with 7 dramatic games -- kind of an NBA version of the 1991 World Series would be nice.

[JWags85]

I'm torn about Cleveland.

On the one hand, I'd like to see great, loyal fans finally be rewarded.

On the other, there's something "romantic" about the kind of "forever angst" being felt by Cleveland fans -- and Cubbie fans, and formerly Red Sox fans, etc.

I know it's not a "romantic" notion to Clevelanders, but to outsiders it is.

Having said all that, I think I'd like to see the Cavs do it. I absolutely do not hate LeBron -- I really enjoy watching him play and think that, in a weird way, he's almost been underrated. I love watching Curry, too, but I find myself getting a little tired of the Golden State bandwagon jumpers.

I'm hoping for a great series, with 7 dramatic games -- kind of an NBA version of the 1991 World Series would be nice.

I went to college in Ohio, I have a LOT of good friends from Cleveland, and others that are from Cbus or other parts of Ohio that are Cavs fans.  Ive never liked Lebron, but I had sympathy for them and even pulled for them the first trip to the finals when they got swept by the Spurs.  But after the "Decision" and the reaction to Lebron, the spite for him in Miami, and then the way they gloriously welcomed him back.  Naw, the desperation was too much.  Especially when it wasn't as altruistic as everyone made it to be.

And my friends weren't the idiots burning jerseys or that.  They were justifiably annoyed and displeased.  When they got Kyrie in the draft and a couple other picks, they were ready to do it without Lebron, and that was cool.  Then he came back, forced the Love trade, and took over GM duties.  Screw it.

Id be rooting for the Thunder or the Spurs if either had taken down the Warriors.  Loving them as I have since Curry and Klay showed up 5-6 years ago just makes it more fun.  I remember watching them as the 6 seed against the Nuggest in 2012-2013 and going "wow, they are fun to watch.  Not great yet, but DANG."  Id like to see the Cavs win a championship someday, but knowing that Lebron and his weird insecurity wouldn't have one as the hometown savior?  I'm cool with that.

[mueron]

More than 30 for me but I still find it difficult to cheer for the Bears.  All Pack, all the time.  Love the Bulls (minus Rose), love the Hawks, kinda like the Sox and mostly dislike the Cubs fans.

As a white sox fan thank you. It's frustrating to have every one who moves here from out of state to immediately adopt the cubs as their baseball team. I have a co-worker who is a badger fan (not a graduate just lived in madison for a while) who was a cleveland indians fan (hes originally from ohio) who is suddenly now the biggest cub fan. Hes the worst.

[77ncaachamps]

Should be easy to root for the Cavs:

Jim Boylan is a Cavs Asst.

Cavs in 6.

#GoCavs

[ChicosBailBonds]

The "experts" overwhelmingly picking the Warriors.  The list I saw had something like 5 for the Cavs and 40+ for the Warriors.

[Silkk the Shaka]

The "experts" overwhelmingly picking the Warriors.  The list I saw had something like 5 for the Cavs and 40+ for the Warriors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GqIci7JA8c

[ChicosBailBonds]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GqIci7JA8c

Nope, definitely not on the NBA. 

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2016-nba-playoffs-experts-unanimously-pick-warriors-over-cavs-in-finals-rematch/

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/GSWCLE-15859161/nba-playoffs-2016-experts-predictions-golden-state-warriors-cleveland-cavaliers-nba-finals

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-mavericks/mavericks/2016/06/01/sportsdays-experts-pick-warriors-cavaliers-edge-nba-finals

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/cbs-local-picks/2016-nba-finals-expert-picks/

http://www.ibtimes.com/cavs-vs-warriors-2016-expert-predictions-2016-nba-finals-2376703

[RushmoreAcademy]

I would love to see GS in 4.  I hate Lebron. 

This is what I'm hoping for.  I don't like Lebron, and I don't feel guilty about it.  I get kind of sick of the media convincing me why I need to root for him.  I don't wish ill upon the guy, I just want to see him lose basketball games.  Every time I start to forget how annoying he is, he does something else, most recently of which was him talking about the meaning of the word valuable.  Just congratulate Steph.  They won 73 games and he was amazing. 
Go Warriors.

[GGGG]

This is what I'm hoping for.  I don't like Lebron, and I don't feel guilty about it.  I get kind of sick of the media convincing me why I need to root for him.  I don't wish ill upon the guy, I just want to see him lose basketball games.  Every time I start to forget how annoying he is, he does something else, most recently of which was him talking about the meaning of the word valuable.  Just congratulate Steph.  They won 73 games and he was amazing. 
Go Warriors.

This is exactly what I mean about the illogical dislike of Lebron.  He is one of the best basketball players ever and people get hung up on how he defines "valuable."  I mean c'mon...

[RushmoreAcademy]

This is exactly what I mean about the illogical dislike of Lebron.  He is one of the best basketball players ever and people get hung up on how he defines "valuable."  I mean c'mon...

Why do I have to like him?  There are number of players I dislike for arbitrary reasons.  Has The Decision, gets his coach fired, puts together super teams to try to win... any of these are generic reasons for me to root against somebody while watching sports.  He's not the only guy in the league I'd root against. I don't hope he gets injured.   I just want him to lose the game.

[GGGG]

You don't have to like him.  I just find yours (and others) reasons for disliking him completely illogical.

The Decision - a mistake that he apologized for.  Not to mention it is something that many celebrate high school kids doing.  Scoopers thought Markus Howard's little movie announcing he was coming to Marquette was cool, but it was essentially the same thing.

Gets his coach fired - because he was over his head and generally bad.  He just accepted a head coaching position in Turkey.

Puts together super teams to try to win - THE HORROR!!!!

[wadesworld]

You don't have to like him.  I just find yours (and others) reasons for disliking him completely illogical.

The Decision - a mistake that he apologized for.  Not to mention it is something that many celebrate high school kids doing.  Scoopers thought Markus Howard's little movie announcing he was coming to Marquette was cool, but it was essentially the same thing.

Gets his coach fired - because he was over his head and generally bad.  He just accepted a head coaching position in Turkey.

Puts together super teams to try to win - THE HORROR!!!!

He was?  The guy got to the Finals in his first season, went up 2-1 without 2 of his 3 best players in the series, and was off to a 30-11 start in season 2.  That's in over your head?

If so, what is Tyronn Lue when he has Love and Irving back and (should, but the NBA will find a way to make it a 6 game series) get swept in the Finals with those 2?

Mike Brown must've been in over his head as well, yet the coaches that have replaced the guys that LeBron has had fired are producing the same results that those guys produced.

[GGGG]

He was?  The guy got to the Finals in his first season, went up 2-1 without 2 of his 3 best players in the series, and was off to a 30-11 start in season 2.  That's in over your head?

If so, what is Tyronn Lue when he has Love and Irving back and (should, but the NBA will find a way to make it a 6 game series) get swept in the Finals with those 2?

Mike Brown must've been in over his head as well, yet the coaches that have replaced the guys that LeBron has had fired are producing the same results that those guys produced.

Yep.  Blatt and Brown undoubtedly benefited more from having Lebron on their teams.  But since both are now out of the NBA, Brown failing at the Lakers and in his second go around with the Cavs, and Blatt heading back to Europe, it is safe to say that neither were very good coaches.  Is Lue in that same category?  Time will tell.

Now Erik Spoelstra is a good coach.  He won before Lebron got there and after he left.  If he would be fired tomorrow, he'll land another gig no doubt.  I think it will be a long time before Brown or Blatt coach in the NBA again.

[GooooMarquette]

Gets his coach fired - because he was over his head and generally bad.  He just accepted a head coaching position in Turkey.

Blatt was 30-11 (.732) this season - mostly without Irving - when he got fired.

Lue went 27-14 (.659) the rest of the way - mostly with Irving.

The coach wasn't holding them back....

And Blatt went to Turkey because he has played/coached most of his career in Europe...then has a very successful 2 years in the NBA and gets fired.  He just wanted to go where he'd be appreciated. 

[GGGG]

Blatt was 30-11 (.732) this season - mostly without Irving - when he got fired.

Lue went 27-14 (.659) the rest of the way - mostly with Irving.

The coach wasn't holding them back....

And Blatt went to Turkey because he has played/coached most of his career in Europe...then has a very successful 2 years in the NBA and gets fired.  He just wanted to go where he'd be appreciated. 

Sure.  I'm sure that's it.

(And I'm not making any claims that Lue is a good coach.)

[MU82]

You don't have to like him.  I just find yours (and others) reasons for disliking him completely illogical.

The Decision - a mistake that he apologized for.  Not to mention it is something that many celebrate high school kids doing.  Scoopers thought Markus Howard's little movie announcing he was coming to Marquette was cool, but it was essentially the same thing.

Gets his coach fired - because he was over his head and generally bad.  He just accepted a head coaching position in Turkey.

Puts together super teams to try to win - THE HORROR!!!!

I agree with this except the H.S. videos being "essentially the same thing" as The Decision.

LeBron spent 7 years with the Cavs. He became part of the fabric of the community. He gave a championship-starved community hope. He was "one of their own," a native son, who relished being there. In the end, he toyed with them. He teased them. He made many believe he was an Ohioan for life. And then he not only left, but he ripped their hearts out in a pathetic, narcissistic TV event.

Whose heart did Markus Howard rip out with his announcement?

Even big-time guys who chose Duke over Kentucky, and therefore disappoint Ky fans ... that player didn't "belong" to Kentucky. He didn't spend 7 years talking about how "Lexington" he was.

So I don't think it's even in the same universe ... except for the look-at-me part of it.

And remember, I say all these things as a guy who really likes watching LeBron, who was glad he apologized for The Decision, who thought Gilbert acted like a total douche after The Decision, who had absolutely no problem with LeBron building a "superteam" in Miami, who is glad LeBron went back to Cleveland and who now kinda hopes the Cavs win.

[StillAWarrior]

I agree with this except the H.S. videos being "essentially the same thing" as The Decision.

LeBron spent 7 years with the Cavs. He became part of the fabric of the community. He gave a championship-starved community hope. He was "one of their own," a native son, who relished being there. In the end, he toyed with them. He teased them. He made many believe he was an Ohioan for life. And then he not only left, but he ripped their hearts out in a pathetic, narcissistic TV event.

Whose heart did Markus Howard rip out with his announcement?

Even big-time guys who chose Duke over Kentucky, and therefore disappoint Ky fans ... that player didn't "belong" to Kentucky. He didn't spend 7 years talking about how "Lexington" he was.

So I don't think it's even in the same universe ... except for the look-at-me part of it.

And remember, I say all these things as a guy who really likes watching LeBron, who was glad he apologized for The Decision, who thought Gilbert acted like a total douche after The Decision, who had absolutely no problem with LeBron building a "superteam" in Miami, who is glad LeBron went back to Cleveland and who now kinda hopes the Cavs win.

As someone who was living in Cleveland at the time (although admittedly not a lifelong Clevelander), I honestly don't understand some of the fuss over LeBron leaving.  Of course, I was disappointed.  And I thought "the Decision" was a rare ill-advised -- albeit well-intentioned -- PR misstep for LeBron.  But I liked and rooted for him while he was in Miami (maybe because of DWade, not sure), and I like and root for him now.  He's an extremely rare talent who should certainly be remembered as one of the greatest ever.

But, as someone who has lived in Cleveland throughout the entire LeBron years, please try to remember when ESPN, Sports Illustrated, etc. are looking for Clevelanders to interview about LeBron leaving, they aren't particularly attracted to the people who shrug their shoulders and say, "Meh."  They're looking for the people sobbing and burning jerseys.  That doesn't mean that those people are necessarily representative.  I know a lot of people here -- including a lot of Cavs fans -- and while many were bummed, they understood why he did what he did.

And while I don't have proof that some here seem to require, I can't imagine that LeBron regretted his decision for a second.  He shouldn't.  It was a good decision.  The "Decision" on the other hand...

[RushmoreAcademy]

You don't have to like him.  I just find yours (and others) reasons for disliking him completely illogical.

The Decision - a mistake that he apologized for.  Not to mention it is something that many celebrate high school kids doing.  Scoopers thought Markus Howard's little movie announcing he was coming to Marquette was cool, but it was essentially the same thing.

Gets his coach fired - because he was over his head and generally bad.  He just accepted a head coaching position in Turkey.

Puts together super teams to try to win - THE HORROR!!!!

Even if all of this is true, why can't I want him to lose?  Okay, then I want him to lose because I'm a Bulls fan and he kept beating the Bulls? What answer will suffice?  It's entertainment. 

[GooooMarquette]

Even if all of this is true, why can't I want him to lose?  Okay, then I want him to lose because I'm a Bulls fan and he kept beating the Bulls? What answer will suffice?  It's entertainment.

Great point.

It's sports - our preferences for who we want to win or lose don't have to be right or logical or fair.  They are what they are.  Heck - it shouldn't even matter that you're a fan of a competing team.

[GGGG]

Even if all of this is true, why can't I want him to lose?  Okay, then I want him to lose because I'm a Bulls fan and he kept beating the Bulls? What answer will suffice?  It's entertainment.

That would be more logical. 

[wadesworld]

Even if all of this is true, why can't I want him to lose?  Okay, then I want him to lose because I'm a Bulls fan and he kept beating the Bulls? What answer will suffice?  It's entertainment.

Right.  I don't get it.  I can like and dislike whoever I want for whatever reasons I want.

[forgetful]

This is exactly what I mean about the illogical dislike of Lebron.  He is one of the best basketball players ever and people get hung up on how he defines "valuable."  I mean c'mon...

Personally, (and we've debated this before), I think Lebron is an over-rated player.  He benefits greatly from a change in rules emphasis.

They ignore blatant offensive fouls on him every possession when he drives into a defender in place and pushes off or runs him over.  Any other player and they call them all fouls and Lebron doesn't make it to the first media time out.

He lacks lateral quickness and instead powers through players.  They ignore and changed how those fouls are called to benefit him.

He also dominates the ball too much.  Everyone who has played with him has statistically declined significantly.  He is the rare player that makes players worse and is absurdly uncoachable...coaches have to agree to do what Lebron does.

His absurd athletic ability and the way games are officiated have made him a dominant player; but his attitude has led to him having far less success than he is capable of. 

I want to emphasize that when I say over-rated, I'm saying that in comparison to people saying he is an all-time top 5 player.  He is nowhere near the league of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Oscar Robinson, Wilt the stilt, Kareem etc.

Those types of players had rules changed to make them less effective, so they didn't dominate the game as much.  Lebron had rule changes to make him more effective.

I compare Lebron more to Shaquille.  Another player that was able to dominate based on power only, and the ignoring of rules in the NBA.

Yes, I'm aware this is a fringe belief.

[GGGG]

Right.  I don't get it.  I can like and dislike whoever I want for whatever reasons I want.

I never said you couldn't.  I can just claim that your reasons are illogical.  If you don't care about my opinion on your reasons, don't post them...or don't respond to me...or put me on ignore.  Whatever.