Real Estate Market

[MU82]

Grand Rapids, Mi. 

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2016/05/the_panic_mode_is_there_in_red.html

Thanks, tower. My first takeaway after reading that link was "Damn, houses are cheap in Grand Rapids!" But everything's relative. I lived in Chicago for 16 years and saw prices go crazy there. As I said, here in Charlotte it's steadily upward.

As you said in your earlier post, selling for profit is great, but then you have to buy another house. We sold our Chicago house to lock in the insane profit but then faced just that conundrum. We later wished we hadn't sold.

[StillAWarrior]

Maybe it's your neighbors sending you a not so subtle message?

No, he tells me directly when I'm picking up the dog crap he throws onto our lawn.

[drewm88]

We're taking a long weekend in Chicago now and staying in East Lakeview/West Lincoln Park (not sure exactly where the line is.  also, used airbnb.com for the first time and it's WAY better than a hotel - highly recommend it for your next family getaway) and I'm shocked at how affordable the houses are.

We live in an older (1900-1950) part of KC and the market is very brisk from both a buy/sell perspective and, judging from the number of dumpsters in front of houses, from a renovation perspective.  <2 weeks for anything priced reasonably.

As Coleman mentioned, Lakeview is steadily increasing. A condo in our building just got listed for easily 15% over what it could possibly be worth, and it's still getting looks.

Also, Lakeview is north of Lincoln Park, not west.

[tower912]

Thanks, tower. My first takeaway after reading that link was "Damn, houses are cheap in Grand Rapids!" But everything's relative. I liked in Chicago for 16 years and saw prices go crazy there. As I said, here in Charlotte it's steadily upward.

As you said in your earlier post, selling for profit is great, but then you have to buy another house. We sold our Chicago house to lock in the insane profit but then faced just that conundrum. We later wished we hadn't sold.

I bought in 93 for what in retrospect was an obscenely low price.  In 2003, I could have gotten nearly double what I paid for it.  Then came the decade long recession in Michigan.  In 2010, I could only have gotten 20% more than I paid in 1993.   Today, I am back to double.  But I like the place and it will be paid off in 18 months, so my motivation to sell is nonexistent.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I have no idea of the overall market here in the Cleveland area, but I found a post card on my mailbox the other day from a realtor asking us to call if we're interested in selling.  I don't recall that ever happening before.  I suppose that's got to mean something.

That's probably a realtor with a buyer that wants to move into your neighborhood.  We talked about the same thing with our realtor, the idea is to have the homeowner sell the house without listing it, and thus, not paying sellers commission.  win/win for both sides.

Or your neighbor thinks you're a giant d-bag like Keefe says.

[StillAWarrior]

That's probably a realtor with a buyer that wants to move into your neighborhood.  We talked about the same thing with our realtor, the idea is to have the homeowner sell the house without listing it, and thus, not paying sellers commission.  win/win for both sides.

Or your neighbor thinks you're a giant d-bag like Keefe says.

Why not both?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Why not both?

is your dog sh!t throwing neighbor a realtor?

[jficke13]

FWIW, decent houses in Tosa are going for over asking (we offered 8k and 10k over asking on a couple and got outbid, first one went for 20k over asking, second for a "crazy amount more" and sellers are demanding buyers remove appraisal contingencies). They are routinely getting multiple offers in the first day of showings, and have an accepted offer within 36 hours.

I'm defining "decent" by 3 BR 1.5 Bath or more, no structural failures, between 62nd and 90th and south of center to a few blocks south of north.

It's starting to feel kind of bubbly, especially when sellers are emboldened to remove appraisal contingencies and buyers aren't batting an eye about it.

[Coleman]

That's probably a realtor with a buyer that wants to move into your neighborhood.  We talked about the same thing with our realtor, the idea is to have the homeowner sell the house without listing it, and thus, not paying sellers commission.  win/win for both sides.

Or your neighbor thinks you're a giant d-bag like Keefe says.

I'd rather pay a seller's commission and list it, at least in Chicago. You might end up with a bidding war and a sale price well above ask.  Not to mention you have no one representing your interests throughout the process.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I'd rather pay a seller's commission and list it, at least in Chicago. You might end up with a bidding war and a sale price well above ask.  Not to mention you have no one representing your interests throughout the process.

yeah, but paying a real estate attorney to handle paperwork/negotiations is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying 3%.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

FWIW, decent houses in Tosa are going for over asking (we offered 8k and 10k over asking on a couple and got outbid, first one went for 20k over asking, second for a "crazy amount more" and sellers are demanding buyers remove appraisal contingencies). They are routinely getting multiple offers in the first day of showings, and have an accepted offer within 36 hours.

I'm defining "decent" by 3 BR 1.5 Bath or more, no structural failures, between 62nd and 90th and south of center to a few blocks south of north.

It's starting to feel kind of bubbly, especially when sellers are emboldened to remove appraisal contingencies and buyers aren't batting an eye about it.

this sounds like Tosa circa 2004. 

[Benny B]

San Diego  is really hot and prices are increasing . definitely  see a bubble as prices have outpaced incomes. when rates go up this will cool some but foreign investors continue to buy.

Granted, it's north county, but I saw that several developers had 7,000 single family units recently approved near Fallbrook at I-15 & 76.  Don't know if this will relieve any of the pressure in the south county, but it seems like the market is following traditional paths where the rise in existing home prices is fueling the demand for new construction, unlike the last housing bubble where construction was skyrocketing without any concern for existing home prices.

[Benny B]

yeah, but paying a real estate attorney to handle paperwork/negotiations is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying 3%.

This must be an Illinois thing, because none of my friends, relatives, etc. in Wisconsin or Indiana ever mentioned having an attorney involved in their home purchase/sale.

That said, I couldn't imagine doing it any other way.  The idea that people sit at a closing table with a signed contract for the biggest purchase/sale they'll ever make in their life, and the person watching out for their interests who's sitting in the corner playing on his/her phone has a high school diploma and 60 hours of training?  No thanks... I'll gladly spend the $400-500 it costs to make sure I've got an attorney sitting next to me.

[Coleman]

This must be an Illinois thing, because none of my friends, relatives, etc. in Wisconsin or Indiana ever mentioned having an attorney involved in their home purchase/sale.

That said, I couldn't imagine doing it any other way.  The idea that people sit at a closing table with a signed contract for the biggest purchase/sale they'll ever make in their life, and the person watching out for their interests who's sitting in the corner playing on his/her phone has a high school diploma and 60 hours of training?  No thanks... I'll gladly spend the $400-500 it costs to make sure I've got an attorney sitting next to me.

I had both. Attorney and agent, there every step of the way. And they are both money well spent.

So many things come up from listing to close. Negotiations, contingencies, inspection, etc. etc. I want someone who has knowledge of the legal aspects, as well as someone with vast knowledge of the market (and it is rare to have someone who has knowledge of both... I guess in theory a really good real estate attorney could do it all, but I doubt it). Money well spent, if you have the right people.

[rocky_warrior]

You're wasting money on Attorneys?

I mean, if it makes you feel more comfortable great, but have they every actually done anything useful to change the terms of a sale/purchase?  Or you just like paying a lot of money for someone to give you facts that are freely available on the internet?

Anyway, to the original question, Real Estate in Denver (and the entire front range) is going crazy.  But I don't classify it as a bubble - we also have about 10,000 people moving to the area every month.  That's the bubbly part, but I don't see that slowing down too much anytime soon.

But it's largely cities proper that see the increases.  I know a few people that live in the burbs, and their values have only gone up a bit.  Everyone wants to be in an urban, walkable area around here.

[Coleman]

You're wasting money on Attorneys?

I mean, if it makes you feel more comfortable great, but have they every actually done anything useful to change the terms of a sale/purchase?  Or you just like paying a lot of money for someone to give you facts that are freely available on the internet?

Anyway, to the original question, Real Estate in Denver (and the entire front range) is going crazy.  But I don't classify it as a bubble - we also have about 10,000 people moving to the area every month.  That's the bubbly part, but I don't see that slowing down too much anytime soon.

But it's largely cities proper that see the increases.  I know a few people that live in the burbs, and their values have only gone up a bit.  Everyone wants to be in an urban, walkable area around here.

Actually, my attorney saved me money. It was a $500 flat fee, and 2 weeks before close the condo association notified us of a special assessment which would have cost us $1000 over the course of a year. Attorney negotiated for the seller to credit us this amount at closing.

Also, if the other party has an attorney and you do not, it is almost certain they will put some language that benefits them into the deal. My attorney told me this is common practice. Attorneys will do it knowing there is a 99% chance the other attorney will catch it and demand they take it out, but it doesn't hurt to try. If you don't have an attorney reviewing the language and looking out for this stuff, you will get screwed, at least in Illinois.

$500 for an attorney for a $300,000+ investment is a no-brainer.

[MU82]

Attorneys ... realtors ... I have and haven't employed each.

In Minnesota, where we bought and sold 2 houses, attorneys weren't the norm and we didn't use one. In Chicago, where we also bought and sold 2 houses, it seemed the majority used attorneys and so did we. In Charlotte, where we bought one house, it's fairly common and we used one.

As for realtors, we tried a couple of times to sell a house without one. The first time was pre-Internet days and we really didn't have a chance, and we ended up listing it with an agent. The second time, in 2004 in Chicago, discount brokers were just gaining popularity. For a few hundred bucks, we got the house listed on the MLS and that, combined with the hot market, drove traffic pretty well. I'm a control freak, so I actually liked writing the listing, taking the photos, arranging showings, etc. We welcomed buyers' agents and offered a 2.5% commission. Our eventual buyer did have an agent and we paid the commission; what was cool was that to facilitate the closing, the agent did all the paperwork. So it was as if we had an agent but we only had to pay half the commission.

Otherwise, we have used realtors on both sides of the transactions. It's a must if one has to unload a property quickly or if it's potentially complicated or if it's a tough market.

I think if we had to sell our house right now, with Charlotte being a fairly hot market, and if we didn't absolutely have to move quickly, I'd go the discount broker route again.

[rocky_warrior]

If you don't have an attorney reviewing the language and looking out for this stuff, you will get screwed, at least in Illinois.

Ah...and yes, I guess states make the difference.  Colorado has mandatory contracts and forms, and even if an attorney writes up a contract, the realtor is required to disclose that it is not the Commission approved form.

So, through 3 purchases in Colorado, I've never seen an attorney at a closing (on either side).  Quickly scribble on the forms, and get to your new residence as fast as possible   Hasn't failed me yet.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So Cal real estate marketing....depends on the pocket.  Very much a supply and demand issue here because there isn't a lot of space for new housing to be built. 

I believe the average buyer is putting in 5 bids before landing a house out here.  Feels like a bubble, but it often feels like a bubble out here....2008 and 2014 being big exceptions.

[rocket surgeon]

I'd have thought about leaving but we just remodeled our kitchen in September and we love the area where we'd live so we'd just buy another house in the same area but all of the kitchens have sucked for houses on the market (according to the wife) so we aren't going anywhere any time soon.

i was trying to be funny-you know, move cuz the rocket guy is bringing down values hahaha ha haha, umm, anyway-i love waukesha county.  close to milwaukee, relatively inexpensive, safe...we may be right in the middle of the water war however.  i have my own well, but if the city has to pump clean water from just near my house and my well goes dry...we are thinking of selling and relocating to somewhere more SW within waukesha co. or to geneva national(walworth co.) within 3-4 years while real estate is still bubbling

[rocket surgeon]

So Cal real estate marketing....depends on the pocket.  Very much a supply and demand issue here because there isn't a lot of space for new housing to be built. 

I believe the average buyer is putting in 5 bids before landing a house out here.  Feels like a bubble, but it often feels like a bubble out here....2008 and 2014 being big exceptions.

love love love palm springs, but well first of all, its california(sorry), it's EXPENSIVE and you really don't get much home for the money and did i say EXPENSIVE...

   love the golf.  one of the prettiest areas not on water.  they'll just have to let me loiter for a few days, golf, dine and leave. palm springs has a great street festival/food music, arts, every thursday night.  funny thing is whenever one is driving say in the tri-state area(cal-nev-ari)-you know when you are in california-look for the first gas station and just check the price

[naginiF]

As Coleman mentioned, Lakeview is steadily increasing. A condo in our building just got listed for easily 15% over what it could possibly be worth, and it's still getting looks.

Also, Lakeview is north of Lincoln Park, not west.

I do dig this area (and the west vs north thing is because i thought i had done a rectangle on my run yesterday but clearly Lincoln runs diagonal so i was further south than i thought), you and Coleman have a cool hood.

The value comment was based on looking up a few houses that were for sale that looked like 'newer' construction (guessing since 2000) and comparing $ per square foot to our KC neighborhood - i have no clue on property tax or private school cost - but almost identical.  Granted in KC we get a double lot and much more open floor plan for the square footage but Chicago has some benefits to off set that.

82 - i sent you a PM with the airbnb listing, but knowing that Coleman and drew88 live around the corner and probably have space available.......

[keefe]

Actually, my attorney saved me money. It was a $500 flat fee.

$500 for an attorney for a $300,000+ investment is a no-brainer.

I thought the really good, best-of-the-best, extra-special, high-powered attorneys charge $500 an hour...

[Benny B]

You're wasting money on Attorneys?

I mean, if it makes you feel more comfortable great, but have they every actually done anything useful to change the terms of a sale/purchase?  Or you just like paying a lot of money for someone to give you facts that are freely available on the internet?

Anyway, to the original question, Real Estate in Denver (and the entire front range) is going crazy.  But I don't classify it as a bubble - we also have about 10,000 people moving to the area every month.  That's the bubbly part, but I don't see that slowing down too much anytime soon.

But it's largely cities proper that see the increases.  I know a few people that live in the burbs, and their values have only gone up a bit.  Everyone wants to be in an urban, walkable area around here.

I've seen enough crap come up in title and survey whose effects would not even arise until long after the transaction closes, most realtors would never see (or wouldn't know what to do even if they did) and most state forms do not address.  And as Coleman surmised, most attorneys pay for themselves by acting in the interests of the client whereas a realtor acts strictly in the interests of the transaction once they get to the closing table.  Most people go through the process many times without issue, but it's not so much the stray HOA invoice or boundary line adjustment that wasn't covered on title, but the lost opportunity to be rightly compensated for it.

[Dr. Blackheart]

With low interest rates and the threat of inflation, plus the end of the school year, Cook County is popping.  The collar counties, with the higher property taxes, have a backup of inventory. McMansions are sitting on the market about two years as the Boomers are downsizing and the Millenials are minimalists. Three houses on my block sold this week in Cook.