MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: reinko on May 22, 2016, 02:59:15 PM
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Please please please... Nothing political
At least where I live (Boston area), values are going up up up, sale prices are well above ask... Maybe another bubble? Is it like this in other parts of the country?
Honestly, I don't know, but imagine folks here would know better than I.
Mrs. Reinko and I rent in a great neighborhood, with an awesome landlord, but I'm certainly spooked when the house across the street during an open house has 80 some people lined up.
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Charlotte has what I would call a "healthy" market.
Prices have moved up, but not crazily. Houses generally seem to be selling at about asking price, maybe a little less. Nice homes in desirable neighborhoods go fast; homes that need work or in less-desirable neighborhoods are taking about as long as I'd have thought.
I have read newspaper articles of us having too small a supply in relationship to the demand, so that is helping fuel the decent price climb. We also are one of the fastest-growing metro areas in the country.
My daughter lives in Seattle and she and her man are starting to talk about buying. That place is berserk! A friend who lives there is looking to go from a condo to a house. He and his wife just went to look at a house they liked and it received 13 offers in less than 24 hours, including several over list. I hate to hear that, given my daughter's situation.
Seattle's housing market, I'm told, was mostly unaffected by the recession. Maybe the same was true of Boston. Here in Charlotte, which is a banking hub in which a huge percentage of jobs are tied to the financial industry, was hit hard.
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The market sucks in suburban Chicago. But then again, who would voluntarily move there?
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In April, national trends appeared to be lower inventory than a year ago, but higher prices and #donedeals occurring at a more brisk pace.
All depends on location, but... yes, another bubble.
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Bubble where I am. Bidding wars for houses, sellers receiving asking price plus 10% frequently. I have been cold called by realtors 4 times in the last month asking if I want to sell. I always ask, if I sell, where can I move?
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certain areas of waukesha, washington and ozaukee counties, there have been bidding wars with houses selling within a week or two. they barely get the sign up and it has pending offer(s) my house $$ has quadrupled in 24 years from what i built it for, but we did do some improvements thereafter to be fair
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All depends on location
I don't know enough about the national picture, but location (as always) is a huge factor. I live in a community that had seen steadily rising prices before the bubble, a slight hiccup for a couple years after '08, and then steadily rising prices since. For most people here, the real estate bubble was something we experienced mostly on TV.
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Buzz should have held firm on that initial price in the Quon, a'''ina?
BTW.. I recently sold a house (6 hours on the market, full list price).. and purchased a house... (94% of list)... just all depends when talking about individual transactions.
But, is there another bubble forming? Of course.
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Bubble where I am. Bidding wars for houses, sellers receiving asking price plus 10% frequently. I have been cold called by realtors 4 times in the last month asking if I want to sell. I always ask, if I sell, where can I move?
Remind me, tower ... where do you live?
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The market sucks in suburban Chicago. But then again, who would voluntarily move there?
We're taking a long weekend in Chicago now and staying in East Lakeview/West Lincoln Park (not sure exactly where the line is. also, used airbnb.com for the first time and it's WAY better than a hotel - highly recommend it for your next family getaway) and I'm shocked at how affordable the houses are.
We live in an older (1900-1950) part of KC and the market is very brisk from both a buy/sell perspective and, judging from the number of dumpsters in front of houses, from a renovation perspective. <2 weeks for anything priced reasonably.
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We're taking a long weekend in Chicago now and staying in East Lakeview/West Lincoln Park (not sure exactly where the line is. also, used airbnb.com for the first time and it's WAY better than a hotel - highly recommend it for your next family getaway) and I'm shocked at how affordable the houses are.
We might do the same fairly soon. Can you tell me which airbnb you stayed at?
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The market sucks in suburban Chicago. But then again, who would voluntarily move there?
"Suburban Chicago" doesn't really mean anything
North Shore, Lake County, Northwest Burbs, West Burbs, South Burbs, NW Indiana are all completely different markets. Some suck and some are red hot.
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San Diego is really hot and prices are increasing . definitely see a bubble as prices have outpaced incomes. when rates go up this will cool some but foreign investors continue to buy.
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We're taking a long weekend in Chicago now and staying in East Lakeview/West Lincoln Park and I'm shocked at how affordable the houses are.
It's because of the crime. http://www.cwbchicago.com
Increasing property taxes and general Chicago dysfunction don't help either.
Nationally, my theory is this isn't a bubble because these incredibly competitive situations tend to be hyperlocal based on the value a neighbourhood (or even a specific part of one) provides... particularly in large metro areas that have so much ugly housing stock elsewhere.
MKE example: Looked at potential investment properties in Tosa last month -- one around 65th and North wound up with 10+ offers and 10-15% over the listing price in basically a weekend.
Still in Tosa, a decent house off of 106th and Hampton is still on the market today.
The comparison gets even more extreme if you go a few miles east of 65th into Milwaukee and Metcalfe Park.
Where would you rather live?
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In March I put a house on the market on Seattle's east side and got 21% over asking on day 1. But Seattle tech is adding 8% new hires this year and people need somewhere to live.
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I'm catching up on films and I started watching The Big Short last night. Wow! Great scene when Steve Carrel's character and workmates visit Florida to get a feel for what's going on by talking with real estate brokers and mortgage lenders who push variable rate loans.
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Our potential market value in Madison increased almost 20% in one year (haven't listed the crib yet, because there is no inventory in our price range to buy a new crib).
For my situation, it comes down to 1 thing: Epic Systems.
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We're taking a long weekend in Chicago now and staying in East Lakeview/West Lincoln Park (not sure exactly where the line is. also, used airbnb.com for the first time and it's WAY better than a hotel - highly recommend it for your next family getaway) and I'm shocked at how affordable the houses are.
We live in an older (1900-1950) part of KC and the market is very brisk from both a buy/sell perspective and, judging from the number of dumpsters in front of houses, from a renovation perspective. <2 weeks for anything priced reasonably.
To stay or buy? I believe that air bnb is affordable compared to Chicago hotels.
But single family homes in Lakeview and Lincoln Park are anything but affordable to buy. 7 figures for a home in decent shape.
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It's because of the crime. http://www.cwbchicago.com
Increasing property taxes and general Chicago dysfunction don't help either.
Nationally, my theory is this isn't a bubble because these incredibly competitive situations tend to be hyperlocal based on the value a neighbourhood (or even a specific part of one) provides... particularly in large metro areas that have so much ugly housing stock elsewhere.
MKE example: Looked at potential investment properties in Tosa last month -- one around 65th and North wound up with 10+ offers and 10-15% over the listing price in basically a weekend.
Still in Tosa, a decent house off of 106th and Hampton is still on the market today.
The comparison gets even more extreme if you go a few miles east of 65th into Milwaukee and Metcalfe Park.
Where would you rather live?
For all of the city of Chicago's dysfunction (and there is plenty), home values in my neighborhood of Lakeview are projected to increase 5% this year and everything in my corner of the neighborhood is going under contract within a couple weeks of going on the market. Its pretty hot right now.
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Live in south eastern Waukesha county and we are definitely shaping up for a bubble I think. We have friends trying to move into our city that have lost 6 houses even though they made day 1 cash offers for full ask or better on houses. One house they offered had 5 offers above ask on day 1. Very hot market around here.
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Remind me, tower ... where do you live?
Grand Rapids, Mi.
http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2016/05/the_panic_mode_is_there_in_red.html
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I have no idea of the overall market here in the Cleveland area, but I found a post card on my mailbox the other day from a realtor asking us to call if we're interested in selling. I don't recall that ever happening before. I suppose that's got to mean something.
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Live in south eastern Waukesha county and we are definitely shaping up for a bubble I think. We have friends trying to move into our city that have lost 6 houses even though they made day 1 cash offers for full ask or better on houses. One house they offered had 5 offers above ask on day 1. Very hot market around here.
you have got to live near me-i know i know, you're thinking get out while prices are still good before others know i live here-eyn'a? in all seriousness, i live just outside the waukesha city limits about a mile from west high school. my taxes would be about 40-45% more if i lived a couple hundred feet to the west, north, or east. a couple of the houses in my subdivision have sold for top dollar and quickly as others are noting here
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you have got to live near me-i know i know, you're thinking get out while prices are still good before others know i live here-eyn'a? in all seriousness, i live just outside the waukesha city limits about a mile from west high school. my taxes would be about 40-45% more if i lived a couple hundred feet to the west, north, or east. a couple of the houses in my subdivision have sold for top dollar and quickly as others are noting here
I'd have thought about leaving but we just remodeled our kitchen in September and we love the area where we'd live so we'd just buy another house in the same area but all of the kitchens have sucked for houses on the market (according to the wife) so we aren't going anywhere any time soon.
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I have no idea of the overall market here in the Cleveland area, but I found a post card on my mailbox the other day from a realtor asking us to call if we're interested in selling. I don't recall that ever happening before. I suppose that's got to mean something.
Maybe it's your neighbors sending you a not so subtle message?
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Grand Rapids, Mi.
http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2016/05/the_panic_mode_is_there_in_red.html
Thanks, tower. My first takeaway after reading that link was "Damn, houses are cheap in Grand Rapids!" But everything's relative. I lived in Chicago for 16 years and saw prices go crazy there. As I said, here in Charlotte it's steadily upward.
As you said in your earlier post, selling for profit is great, but then you have to buy another house. We sold our Chicago house to lock in the insane profit but then faced just that conundrum. We later wished we hadn't sold.
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Maybe it's your neighbors sending you a not so subtle message?
No, he tells me directly when I'm picking up the dog crap he throws onto our lawn.
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We're taking a long weekend in Chicago now and staying in East Lakeview/West Lincoln Park (not sure exactly where the line is. also, used airbnb.com for the first time and it's WAY better than a hotel - highly recommend it for your next family getaway) and I'm shocked at how affordable the houses are.
We live in an older (1900-1950) part of KC and the market is very brisk from both a buy/sell perspective and, judging from the number of dumpsters in front of houses, from a renovation perspective. <2 weeks for anything priced reasonably.
As Coleman mentioned, Lakeview is steadily increasing. A condo in our building just got listed for easily 15% over what it could possibly be worth, and it's still getting looks.
Also, Lakeview is north of Lincoln Park, not west.
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Thanks, tower. My first takeaway after reading that link was "Damn, houses are cheap in Grand Rapids!" But everything's relative. I liked in Chicago for 16 years and saw prices go crazy there. As I said, here in Charlotte it's steadily upward.
As you said in your earlier post, selling for profit is great, but then you have to buy another house. We sold our Chicago house to lock in the insane profit but then faced just that conundrum. We later wished we hadn't sold.
I bought in 93 for what in retrospect was an obscenely low price. In 2003, I could have gotten nearly double what I paid for it. Then came the decade long recession in Michigan. In 2010, I could only have gotten 20% more than I paid in 1993. Today, I am back to double. But I like the place and it will be paid off in 18 months, so my motivation to sell is nonexistent.
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I have no idea of the overall market here in the Cleveland area, but I found a post card on my mailbox the other day from a realtor asking us to call if we're interested in selling. I don't recall that ever happening before. I suppose that's got to mean something.
That's probably a realtor with a buyer that wants to move into your neighborhood. We talked about the same thing with our realtor, the idea is to have the homeowner sell the house without listing it, and thus, not paying sellers commission. win/win for both sides.
Or your neighbor thinks you're a giant d-bag like Keefe says.
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That's probably a realtor with a buyer that wants to move into your neighborhood. We talked about the same thing with our realtor, the idea is to have the homeowner sell the house without listing it, and thus, not paying sellers commission. win/win for both sides.
Or your neighbor thinks you're a giant d-bag like Keefe says.
Why not both?
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Why not both?
is your dog sh!t throwing neighbor a realtor?
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FWIW, decent houses in Tosa are going for over asking (we offered 8k and 10k over asking on a couple and got outbid, first one went for 20k over asking, second for a "crazy amount more" and sellers are demanding buyers remove appraisal contingencies). They are routinely getting multiple offers in the first day of showings, and have an accepted offer within 36 hours.
I'm defining "decent" by 3 BR 1.5 Bath or more, no structural failures, between 62nd and 90th and south of center to a few blocks south of north.
It's starting to feel kind of bubbly, especially when sellers are emboldened to remove appraisal contingencies and buyers aren't batting an eye about it.
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That's probably a realtor with a buyer that wants to move into your neighborhood. We talked about the same thing with our realtor, the idea is to have the homeowner sell the house without listing it, and thus, not paying sellers commission. win/win for both sides.
Or your neighbor thinks you're a giant d-bag like Keefe says.
I'd rather pay a seller's commission and list it, at least in Chicago. You might end up with a bidding war and a sale price well above ask. Not to mention you have no one representing your interests throughout the process.
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I'd rather pay a seller's commission and list it, at least in Chicago. You might end up with a bidding war and a sale price well above ask. Not to mention you have no one representing your interests throughout the process.
yeah, but paying a real estate attorney to handle paperwork/negotiations is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying 3%.
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FWIW, decent houses in Tosa are going for over asking (we offered 8k and 10k over asking on a couple and got outbid, first one went for 20k over asking, second for a "crazy amount more" and sellers are demanding buyers remove appraisal contingencies). They are routinely getting multiple offers in the first day of showings, and have an accepted offer within 36 hours.
I'm defining "decent" by 3 BR 1.5 Bath or more, no structural failures, between 62nd and 90th and south of center to a few blocks south of north.
It's starting to feel kind of bubbly, especially when sellers are emboldened to remove appraisal contingencies and buyers aren't batting an eye about it.
this sounds like Tosa circa 2004.
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San Diego is really hot and prices are increasing . definitely see a bubble as prices have outpaced incomes. when rates go up this will cool some but foreign investors continue to buy.
Granted, it's north county, but I saw that several developers had 7,000 single family units recently approved near Fallbrook at I-15 & 76. Don't know if this will relieve any of the pressure in the south county, but it seems like the market is following traditional paths where the rise in existing home prices is fueling the demand for new construction, unlike the last housing bubble where construction was skyrocketing without any concern for existing home prices.
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yeah, but paying a real estate attorney to handle paperwork/negotiations is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying 3%.
This must be an Illinois thing, because none of my friends, relatives, etc. in Wisconsin or Indiana ever mentioned having an attorney involved in their home purchase/sale.
That said, I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. The idea that people sit at a closing table with a signed contract for the biggest purchase/sale they'll ever make in their life, and the person watching out for their interests who's sitting in the corner playing on his/her phone has a high school diploma and 60 hours of training? No thanks... I'll gladly spend the $400-500 it costs to make sure I've got an attorney sitting next to me.
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This must be an Illinois thing, because none of my friends, relatives, etc. in Wisconsin or Indiana ever mentioned having an attorney involved in their home purchase/sale.
That said, I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. The idea that people sit at a closing table with a signed contract for the biggest purchase/sale they'll ever make in their life, and the person watching out for their interests who's sitting in the corner playing on his/her phone has a high school diploma and 60 hours of training? No thanks... I'll gladly spend the $400-500 it costs to make sure I've got an attorney sitting next to me.
I had both. Attorney and agent, there every step of the way. And they are both money well spent.
So many things come up from listing to close. Negotiations, contingencies, inspection, etc. etc. I want someone who has knowledge of the legal aspects, as well as someone with vast knowledge of the market (and it is rare to have someone who has knowledge of both... I guess in theory a really good real estate attorney could do it all, but I doubt it). Money well spent, if you have the right people.
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You're wasting money on Attorneys?
I mean, if it makes you feel more comfortable great, but have they every actually done anything useful to change the terms of a sale/purchase? Or you just like paying a lot of money for someone to give you facts that are freely available on the internet?
Anyway, to the original question, Real Estate in Denver (and the entire front range) is going crazy. But I don't classify it as a bubble - we also have about 10,000 people moving to the area every month. That's the bubbly part, but I don't see that slowing down too much anytime soon.
But it's largely cities proper that see the increases. I know a few people that live in the burbs, and their values have only gone up a bit. Everyone wants to be in an urban, walkable area around here.
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You're wasting money on Attorneys?
I mean, if it makes you feel more comfortable great, but have they every actually done anything useful to change the terms of a sale/purchase? Or you just like paying a lot of money for someone to give you facts that are freely available on the internet?
Anyway, to the original question, Real Estate in Denver (and the entire front range) is going crazy. But I don't classify it as a bubble - we also have about 10,000 people moving to the area every month. That's the bubbly part, but I don't see that slowing down too much anytime soon.
But it's largely cities proper that see the increases. I know a few people that live in the burbs, and their values have only gone up a bit. Everyone wants to be in an urban, walkable area around here.
Actually, my attorney saved me money. It was a $500 flat fee, and 2 weeks before close the condo association notified us of a special assessment which would have cost us $1000 over the course of a year. Attorney negotiated for the seller to credit us this amount at closing.
Also, if the other party has an attorney and you do not, it is almost certain they will put some language that benefits them into the deal. My attorney told me this is common practice. Attorneys will do it knowing there is a 99% chance the other attorney will catch it and demand they take it out, but it doesn't hurt to try. If you don't have an attorney reviewing the language and looking out for this stuff, you will get screwed, at least in Illinois.
$500 for an attorney for a $300,000+ investment is a no-brainer.
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Attorneys ... realtors ... I have and haven't employed each.
In Minnesota, where we bought and sold 2 houses, attorneys weren't the norm and we didn't use one. In Chicago, where we also bought and sold 2 houses, it seemed the majority used attorneys and so did we. In Charlotte, where we bought one house, it's fairly common and we used one.
As for realtors, we tried a couple of times to sell a house without one. The first time was pre-Internet days and we really didn't have a chance, and we ended up listing it with an agent. The second time, in 2004 in Chicago, discount brokers were just gaining popularity. For a few hundred bucks, we got the house listed on the MLS and that, combined with the hot market, drove traffic pretty well. I'm a control freak, so I actually liked writing the listing, taking the photos, arranging showings, etc. We welcomed buyers' agents and offered a 2.5% commission. Our eventual buyer did have an agent and we paid the commission; what was cool was that to facilitate the closing, the agent did all the paperwork. So it was as if we had an agent but we only had to pay half the commission.
Otherwise, we have used realtors on both sides of the transactions. It's a must if one has to unload a property quickly or if it's potentially complicated or if it's a tough market.
I think if we had to sell our house right now, with Charlotte being a fairly hot market, and if we didn't absolutely have to move quickly, I'd go the discount broker route again.
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If you don't have an attorney reviewing the language and looking out for this stuff, you will get screwed, at least in Illinois.
Ah...and yes, I guess states make the difference. Colorado has mandatory contracts and forms, and even if an attorney writes up a contract, the realtor is required to disclose that it is not the Commission approved form.
So, through 3 purchases in Colorado, I've never seen an attorney at a closing (on either side). Quickly scribble on the forms, and get to your new residence as fast as possible :) Hasn't failed me yet.
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So Cal real estate marketing....depends on the pocket. Very much a supply and demand issue here because there isn't a lot of space for new housing to be built.
I believe the average buyer is putting in 5 bids before landing a house out here. Feels like a bubble, but it often feels like a bubble out here....2008 and 2014 being big exceptions.
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I'd have thought about leaving but we just remodeled our kitchen in September and we love the area where we'd live so we'd just buy another house in the same area but all of the kitchens have sucked for houses on the market (according to the wife) so we aren't going anywhere any time soon.
i was trying to be funny-you know, move cuz the rocket guy is bringing down values hahaha ha haha, umm, anyway-i love waukesha county. close to milwaukee, relatively inexpensive, safe...we may be right in the middle of the water war however. i have my own well, but if the city has to pump clean water from just near my house and my well goes dry...we are thinking of selling and relocating to somewhere more SW within waukesha co. or to geneva national(walworth co.) within 3-4 years while real estate is still bubbling
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So Cal real estate marketing....depends on the pocket. Very much a supply and demand issue here because there isn't a lot of space for new housing to be built.
I believe the average buyer is putting in 5 bids before landing a house out here. Feels like a bubble, but it often feels like a bubble out here....2008 and 2014 being big exceptions.
love love love palm springs, but well first of all, its california(sorry), it's EXPENSIVE and you really don't get much home for the money and did i say EXPENSIVE...
love the golf. one of the prettiest areas not on water. they'll just have to let me loiter for a few days, golf, dine and leave. palm springs has a great street festival/food music, arts, every thursday night. funny thing is whenever one is driving say in the tri-state area(cal-nev-ari)-you know when you are in california-look for the first gas station and just check the price
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As Coleman mentioned, Lakeview is steadily increasing. A condo in our building just got listed for easily 15% over what it could possibly be worth, and it's still getting looks.
Also, Lakeview is north of Lincoln Park, not west.
I do dig this area (and the west vs north thing is because i thought i had done a rectangle on my run yesterday but clearly Lincoln runs diagonal so i was further south than i thought), you and Coleman have a cool hood.
The value comment was based on looking up a few houses that were for sale that looked like 'newer' construction (guessing since 2000) and comparing $ per square foot to our KC neighborhood - i have no clue on property tax or private school cost - but almost identical. Granted in KC we get a double lot and much more open floor plan for the square footage but Chicago has some benefits to off set that.
82 - i sent you a PM with the airbnb listing, but knowing that Coleman and drew88 live around the corner and probably have space available.......
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Actually, my attorney saved me money. It was a $500 flat fee.
$500 for an attorney for a $300,000+ investment is a no-brainer.
I thought the really good, best-of-the-best, extra-special, high-powered attorneys charge $500 an hour...
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You're wasting money on Attorneys?
I mean, if it makes you feel more comfortable great, but have they every actually done anything useful to change the terms of a sale/purchase? Or you just like paying a lot of money for someone to give you facts that are freely available on the internet?
Anyway, to the original question, Real Estate in Denver (and the entire front range) is going crazy. But I don't classify it as a bubble - we also have about 10,000 people moving to the area every month. That's the bubbly part, but I don't see that slowing down too much anytime soon.
But it's largely cities proper that see the increases. I know a few people that live in the burbs, and their values have only gone up a bit. Everyone wants to be in an urban, walkable area around here.
I've seen enough crap come up in title and survey whose effects would not even arise until long after the transaction closes, most realtors would never see (or wouldn't know what to do even if they did) and most state forms do not address. And as Coleman surmised, most attorneys pay for themselves by acting in the interests of the client whereas a realtor acts strictly in the interests of the transaction once they get to the closing table. Most people go through the process many times without issue, but it's not so much the stray HOA invoice or boundary line adjustment that wasn't covered on title, but the lost opportunity to be rightly compensated for it.
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With low interest rates and the threat of inflation, plus the end of the school year, Cook County is popping. The collar counties, with the higher property taxes, have a backup of inventory. McMansions are sitting on the market about two years as the Boomers are downsizing and the Millenials are minimalists. Three houses on my block sold this week in Cook.
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In April, national trends appeared to be lower inventory than a year ago, but higher prices and #donedeals occurring at a more brisk pace.
All depends on location, but... yes, another bubble.
Soft bubble, hey?
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I do dig this area (and the west vs north thing is because i thought i had done a rectangle on my run yesterday but clearly Lincoln runs diagonal so i was further south than i thought), you and Coleman have a cool hood.
The value comment was based on looking up a few houses that were for sale that looked like 'newer' construction (guessing since 2000) and comparing $ per square foot to our KC neighborhood - i have no clue on property tax or private school cost - but almost identical. Granted in KC we get a double lot and much more open floor plan for the square footage but Chicago has some benefits to off set that.
82 - i sent you a PM with the airbnb listing, but knowing that Coleman and drew88 live around the corner and probably have space available.......
Thanks, man. I got it.
How 'bout it Coleman and drew - ha!
My wife and I probably will be able to crash at my son's girlfriend's place but not sure yet. Looking for a backup just in case.
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most attorneys pay for themselves by acting in the interests of the client whereas a realtor acts strictly in the interests of the transaction once they get to the closing table.
Your choosing your realtors poorly then. All I've used bring up anomalies in properties and chase down resolutions before closing. Again, maybe it's just an Illinois thing.
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Thanks, man. I got it.
How 'bout it Coleman and drew - ha!
My wife and I probably will be able to crash at my son's girlfriend's place but not sure yet. Looking for a backup just in case.
Just don't snooping around, who knows what you'll find that you can't unsee.
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Your choosing your realtors poorly then. All I've used bring up anomalies in properties and chase down resolutions before closing. Again, maybe it's just an Illinois thing.
Realtors and real estate attorneys have overlap in expertise, but both have things that they are really good at that the other doesn't normally do.
Attorneys don't stage homes. Realtors don't review non-standard contracts and contingencies. Like I said before, you basically have to assume the other party is trying to get the upper hand on the deal. Their attorney will try, and if you have no one playing defense, or putting in favorable language to you to keep them on their toes, you will get taken (in Illinois).
If you don't feel the need, all the power to you. But it was money well-spent in my situation.
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Thanks, man. I got it.
How 'bout it Coleman and drew - ha!
My wife and I probably will be able to crash at my son's girlfriend's place but not sure yet. Looking for a backup just in case.
I must have missed the earlier post...are you coming to Chicago? When?
I doubt my wife would allow me to open our place up to a stranger (despite our deep Scoop ties - she just doesn't understand) but I'd be interested in meeting you for a beer if schedules allow.
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I must have missed the earlier post...are you coming to Chicago? When?
I doubt my wife would allow me to open our place up to a stranger (despite our deep Scoop ties - she just doesn't understand) but I'd be interested in meeting you for a beer if schedules allow.
I absolutely was just kidding about crashing at your place. I'm not as rich as Heisy or rocket, but I can afford a hotel if my potential plans fall through.
I absolutely would be interested in a malt beverage, though. When we get closer, I'll PM you.
Anybody else on the North Side interested?
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For those that have sold homes using realtors, what's the typical commission you've paid? I have a Chicago condo (East Lakeview area), and am curious what the going rate is. My research has indicated 5-6%, but that seems high for an easy sale at $300k. Granted, if the realtor has to create marketing materials, host multiple open houses, split with the buyers realtor, etc, I could see the cost adding up. Just curious if anyone local to Chicago has an experience they could share. Thanks.
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For those that have sold homes using realtors, what's the typical commission you've paid? I have a Chicago condo (East Lakeview area), and am curious what the going rate is. My research has indicated 5-6%, but that seems high for an easy sale at $300k. Granted, if the realtor has to create marketing materials, host multiple open houses, split with the buyers realtor, etc, I could see the cost adding up. Just curious if anyone local to Chicago has an experience they could share. Thanks.
We sold in Chicago in 2004 and 2007. Both times, the going rate was 5%, and I assume it's about the same now. (Here in Charlotte, it's 6%.)
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no such thing as 5% commission in So Cal anymore. my wife is a reat or and even though the paperwork is ridiculously enormous, even the top dogs can't get it.
but you wouldn't house a dog in something @ $300,000
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We sold in Chicago in 2004 and 2007. Both times, the going rate was 5%, and I assume it's about the same now. (Here in Charlotte, it's 6%.)
Appreciate the info, MU82.
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no such thing as 5% commission in So Cal anymore. my wife is a reat or and even though the paperwork is ridiculously enormous, even the top dogs can't get it.
but you wouldn't house a dog in something @ $300,000
And that is the thing that plays into the commission. Chicago went down to 5% as soon as the average house price crossed "X" threshold. Charlotte, where housing is still relatively cheap, is still at 6%. In Minny, where I lived before Chicago, the norm was 7%, but some realtors gave a discount down to 6%.
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Soft bubble, hey?
Not in Seattle, Doc. The market is firm and growing every morning.
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Hot off the press
Home prices are getting out of control in these 18 American markets:
http://www.businessinsider.com/zillow-home-prices-april-2016-2016-5
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Hot off the press
Home prices are getting out of control in these 18 American markets:
http://www.businessinsider.com/zillow-home-prices-april-2016-2016-5
Thanks for that interesting link.
I knew our inventory was tight here in Charlotte, but I didn't know it was that tight. Among the highest in the nation.
Interesting to note that many of the hottest markets are those that were hurt during the last crash -- Tampa, Phoenix, Houston, Charlotte, Miami.
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Thanks for that interesting link.
I knew our inventory was tight here in Charlotte, but I didn't know it was that tight. Among the highest in the nation.
Interesting to note that many of the hottest markets are those that were hurt during the last crash -- Tampa, Phoenix, Houston, Charlotte, Miami.
It's also interesting that most of the markets discussed ITT are on the list, e.g., Denver, Charlotte, Boston, Seattle. Anecdotal evidence backs up the numbers. That always makes for a strong case.
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Interesting to note that many of the hottest markets are those that were hurt during the last crash -- Tampa, Phoenix, Houston, Charlotte, Miami.
Agree , generally. ...but, Houston wasnt hurt much in the 2008 bubble....largely because we didnt bubble expand as much as most cites. We werent rising in prices here like other cities (only 8-15%) prior to 2008 crash. The main reason is the lack of zoning and huge flat land available in all directions. With constantly expanding suburbs, new construction going up all over...the prices of existing inventory stays fairly constant. Water, and mountains, roads, etc hem in other cities...we are just an ever widening puddle. lol To appreciate our expanse ...we now have three full freeway loops surrounding downtown...610, Sam Houston tollway, and the Grand Parkway (....which is about 30 miles from downtown) the greater metro area is 70 miles e/w and n/s. Chicago is the city of Broad Shoulders...we are the Broad Expanse. lol (BTW...not a Chicago dig here... I like your town just fine...we are just differently developed--ok?)
Now .....caveat here...... is that lately, especially, drive times are prohibitive from way out....so closer in...downtown, midtown, in side and close to 610 loop, has seen HUGE increases in prices, teardowns with luxury homes, mid-rises, high rises, etc. Empty nesters no longer needing the highly rated suburban schools are moving as couples go back to HISD territory to be close to work, entertainment arts, etc. Result being ....that closer in areas have increased dramatically, but suburban areas still have only jumped 12-20%. Demand remains strong everywhere....jobs increase and folks move here all the time. Except for a brief lull during our mid 80s slump...its been that way for all of the 37 years I have lived here..Houston is always growing.
Due to the youth of our houses we have very little rehab and flipping. Its mostly new constructions, 10-30 year old homes, and teardowns of the midcenturies that have new homes built on them (our teardowns/new builds are close in and VERY pricey...but wow ...fancy).
This was your Htown RE report. lol
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Am I the only one who sees a correlation between this thread and the 18-34 year olds living at home thread?
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It's also interesting that most of the markets discussed ITT are on the list, e.g., Denver, Charlotte, Boston, Seattle. Anecdotal evidence backs up the numbers. That always makes for a strong case.
Anecdotal, my ass. The explanation there is simple (for three, any way):
Pot - Racism - Tech/Finance - Pot
Seriously... no clue what's driving the housing bus down in Charlotte. A few years ago they were up in arms because Wachovia was skipping town (ended up as Wells' hub instead), now BoA is rumored to soon be heading north (to Boston, ironically). Things must be hot at Family Buckeroo and Lowe's these days.
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Anecdotal, my ass. The explanation there is simple (for three, any way):
Pot - Racism - Tech/Finance - Pot
Seriously... no clue what's driving the housing bus down in Charlotte. A few years ago they were up in arms because Wachovia was skipping town (ended up as Wells' hub instead), now BoA is rumored to soon be heading north (to Boston, ironically). Things must be hot at Family Buckeroo and Lowe's these days.
Peeps just wanna live in the same town MU82 does!
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Seriously... no clue what's driving the housing bus down in Charlotte.
Can't speak for Charlotte proper, but two Colorado heavyweight "micro" brewers - New Belgium and Oscar Blues - have opened secondary operations in NC the past couple years to increase east coast distribution. NC must be doing something right to woo businesses.
So maybe Pot should be Pot/Beer.
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Can't speak for Charlotte proper, but two Colorado heavyweight "micro" brewers - New Belgium and Oscar Blues - have opened secondary operations in NC the past couple years to increase east coast distribution. NC must be doing something right to woo businesses.
So maybe Pot should be Pot/Beer.
Not to steer too far off topic, but New Belgium was the first to do it and they picked NC for the mountain area and water that being near Asheville could bring for an EC operation. Now, many are just following suit. Just this week Ballast Point announced a Roanoke, VA brewery.
Back to the topic, I know the best units in Chicago actually never even get listed on the public record. There is a group of the top agents in the city that will send out listings to private group of people for first showing and biddings only for clients of specific agents. That is how my fiance and I got our condo in Logan Square 15 mo ago - and now comps in the area are going for $45k more than what we paid - and we have a 2 car garage. So if you're in Chicago and you're not with this 10% of top agents you won't see the best properties. If anyone is in the market in Chicago for buying or selling, PM me and I'll shoot you my agents name. She is amazing.
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Can't speak for Charlotte proper, but two Colorado heavyweight "micro" brewers - New Belgium and Oscar Blues - have opened secondary operations in NC the past couple years to increase east coast distribution. NC must be doing something right to woo businesses.
So maybe Pot should be Pot/Beer.
NC overall and Charlotte in particular have gone craft-beer crazy the last few years. When we moved here in 2010, there were 2 craft brewers and they were only opened a little while before we arrived. I believe there are now 14 or 15 - lost count! And NC, with Asheville a major hot spot and plenty of other cities welcoming craft breweries, is going wild.
Coincidentally, I started drinking again in 2011, so it's been nice!
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NC overall and Charlotte in particular have gone craft-beer crazy the last few years. When we moved here in 2010, there were 2 craft brewers and they were only opened a little while before we arrived. I believe there are now 14 or 15 - lost count! And NC, with Asheville a major hot spot and plenty of other cities welcoming craft breweries, is going wild.
Coincidentally, I started drinking again in 2011, so it's been nice!
It's a national trend.
In the last 5 years, 15-20 craft breweries have opened in Connecticut.
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NC overall and Charlotte in particular have gone craft-beer crazy the last few years. When we moved here in 2010, there were 2 craft brewers and they were only opened a little while before we arrived. I believe there are now 14 or 15 - lost count! And NC, with Asheville a major hot spot and plenty of other cities welcoming craft breweries, is going wild.
Coincidentally, I started drinking again in 2011, so it's been nice!
too bad the state limits the ABV of what can be sold there which since booze is legal never made sense to me
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too bad the state limits the ABV of what can be sold there which since booze is legal never made sense to me
Really? What's the limit?
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Really? What's the limit?
Nothing higher than 15% which is pretty high but still no DFH 120, Fort or Raisin d Extra, Avery The Beast, Bruery Black Tuesday etc.
States protecting folks from 18% beer when you can still buy 40% liquor etc. Ohio was similar but just passed a law to remove the limit.
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Nothing higher than 15% which is pretty high but still no DFH 120, Fort or Raisin d Extra, Avery The Beast, Bruery Black Tuesday etc.
States protecting folks from 18% beer when you can still buy 40% liquor etc. Ohio was similar but just passed a law to remove the limit.
Yeah, kind of an arbitrary limit, but thankfully it only forecloses a very small subset of specialty beers.
I wholeheartedly support smuggling them in to the oppressed citizens of NC though. VIVA LA RESISTANCE!
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I'm an infamous lightweight who gets foggy-headed if I drink a beer with ABV higher than 8 or so. I had a delicious bourbon-barrel one with 11% (I can't remember the name) last week as my second beer -- big mistake. I had to call my wife and tell her to pick me up. She wasn't pleased -- but was glad I didn't drive home tipsy. We only live about 10 mins away from the place.
I've never tried any of these super-high beers you just named, so I don't know what I'm missing anyway!
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I'm an infamous lightweight who gets foggy-headed if I drink a beer with ABV higher than 8 or so. I had a delicious bourbon-barrel one with 11% (I can't remember the name) last week as my second beer -- big mistake. I had to call my wife and tell her to pick me up. She wasn't pleased -- but was glad I didn't drive home tipsy. We only live about 10 mins away from the place.
I've never tried any of these super-high beers you just named, so I don't know what I'm missing anyway!
Just a friendly tip, run the other way from this one:
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/16315/54571/
Tactical Nuclear Penguin, a relaxing 32% ABV.
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I'm an infamous lightweight who gets foggy-headed if I drink a beer with ABV higher than 8 or so. I had a delicious bourbon-barrel one with 11% (I can't remember the name) last week as my second beer -- big mistake. I had to call my wife and tell her to pick me up. She wasn't pleased -- but was glad I didn't drive home tipsy. We only live about 10 mins away from the place.
I've never tried any of these super-high beers you just named, so I don't know what I'm missing anyway!
Man created Uber so we could drink delicious bourbon barrel stouts!
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Can't speak for Charlotte proper, but two Colorado heavyweight "micro" brewers - New Belgium and Oscar Blues - have opened secondary operations in NC the past couple years to increase east coast distribution. NC must be doing something right to woo businesses.
So maybe Pot should be Pot/Beer.
I don't know of anyone who's ever moved anywhere because of beer. Kids and adults are moving to Denver by the truckload to get a mile high, both figuratively literally and literally literally. Seattle isn't on my radar, but I imagine there's a lot of similarities there, too.
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Not to steer too far off topic, but New Belgium was the first to do it and they picked NC for the mountain area and water that being near Asheville could bring for an EC operation. Now, many are just following suit. Just this week Ballast Point announced a Roanoke, VA brewery.
Back to the topic, I know the best units in Chicago actually never even get listed on the public record. There is a group of the top agents in the city that will send out listings to private group of people for first showing and biddings only for clients of specific agents. That is how my fiance and I got our condo in Logan Square 15 mo ago - and now comps in the area are going for $45k more than what we paid - and we have a 2 car garage. So if you're in Chicago and you're not with this 10% of top agents you won't see the best properties. If anyone is in the market in Chicago for buying or selling, PM me and I'll shoot you my agents name. She is amazing.
Piggybacking off of Chili, our agent offered that as well, but we ended up buying one that was publicly listed. I'll also offer up my agent to anyone who's interested. Very very pleased.
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Man created Uber so we could drink delicious bourbon barrel stouts!
I've never done the Uber thing, but you're right ... I probably should check it out just for this purpose.
As I said, I'm kind of a lightweight and I know my limit pretty well: 2 "regular" beers -- in other words, not high ABV.
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I've never done the Uber thing, but you're right ... I probably should check it out just for this purpose.
As I said, I'm kind of a lightweight and I know my limit pretty well: 2 "regular" beers -- in other words, not high ABV.
You're missing out (uber and beers).
As for the housing market, I live in Mpls. Just bought my first house. Took me four offers to get one accepted, but I like the one I got the most (all considered), so happy that it did in the end. It took me a couple offers to realize I wasn't going to get anything offering list or 1-2% above. Thankfully ended up finding a house that was self listed and the agent missed the mark in pricing. Offered about 6% over a few hours after it hit the market, and it ended up appraising well over my purchase price. Having walked through 60-70 homes at that point, I was floored that it was listed where it was and got aggressive. Thankfully he accepted my offer after the house being the market 4 hours - pretty sure someone (probably multiple people) would have beaten me if he just gave it another 24 hours.
But yah, definitely a bubble. Just hoping to get what I paid for the house in a few years. Definitely don't plan to be there that long, but things change.
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I don't know of anyone who's ever moved anywhere because of beer. Kids and adults are moving to Denver by the truckload to get a mile high, both figuratively literally and literally literally. Seattle isn't on my radar, but I imagine there's a lot of similarities there, too.
I moved to Chicago for beer... Well my job at the brewery.
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I moved to Chicago for beer... Well my job at the brewery.
Nice!
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I moved to Chicago for beer... Well my job at the brewery.
Let me rephrase... I don't know of anyone who's ever moved anywhere because of good beer.
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Let me rephrase... I don't know of anyone who's ever moved anywhere because of good beer.
I would put our beer up against almost any in the world. Sofie is damn near a perfect a beer.
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I would put our beer up against almost any in the world. Sofie is damn near a perfect a beer.
Who signed off on the cucumber lime mint radler? :P
Goose makes great beer... that one I unfortunately had to dump.
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I don't know of anyone who's ever moved anywhere because of beer. Kids and adults are moving to Denver by the truckload to get a mile high, both figuratively literally and literally literally. Seattle isn't on my radar, but I imagine there's a lot of similarities there, too.
Many years ago, lots of people moved to Milwaukee and St. Louis for beer.
Edit: Oops! Didn't see your later qualifier about good beer. Carry on.
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Who signed off on the cucumber lime mint radler? :P
Goose makes great beer... that one I unfortunately had to dump.
Really? It sounds really good.
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Unit right next door to me (3rd floor) in my 30 unit Lakeview neighborhood condo building was on the market for literally one day before going under contract. It is not exactly a comp (it is a 2 bedroom unit, mine is a 3 bedroom), but that has to bode well for our neck of the woods. Not sure what sale price is but asking price didn't seem ridiculously low. It was about 15% more per square foot than what I paid when I purchased 9 months ago. Personally if I got an offer after a day on the market I'd take it off the market and relist it $10k higher...but that's just me, maybe they needed to move quickly.
Inventory seems really tight for first time home buyers - which is a large chunk of the people who have bought in my building...which is all 2 and 3 bedroom condos in the $250-310k range. A garden-level unit sold earlier this spring after being on the market less than a month. There is only one other unit for sale, has been on the market for about 20 days.
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What's the story about the third ward in Milwaukee?
Is it oversold, over built, or doing just fine?
In my time it was the warehouse district and not good for much except some pizza shop who would serve freshmen.
My theory is that it is all about gentrification and the reverse migration back to inner cities. Hoboken, Hartford, Brooklyn, are all enjoying tremendous growth.
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As I said, I'm kind of a lightweight and I know my limit pretty well: 2 "regular" beers -- in other words, not high ABV.
Mike, IIRC you partied 7 days a week for 4 years at MU. 2 beers is now your capacity? WTF happened?
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What's the story about the third ward in Milwaukee?
Is it oversold, over built, or doing just fine?
In my time it was the warehouse district and not good for much except some pizza shop who would serve freshmen.
My theory is that it is all about gentrification and the reverse migration back to inner cities. Hoboken, Hartford, Brooklyn, are all enjoying tremendous growth.
It's doing great. They are opening up a new boutique hotel there - a Kimpton
https://www.kimptonhotels.com/boutique-hotels-in-milwaukee
You cannot find a parking space anywhere in the Third Ward on the weekends.
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Mike, IIRC you partied 7 days a week for 4 years at MU. 2 beers is now your capacity? WTF happened?
Don't misrepresent, Lenny.
I went out every night of finals week for four years. Very different than "partying 7 days a week for 4 years."
And WTF happened was that I gave up booze for 18+ years, from Oct 1992 to Feb 2011. I lost the ability to be a "high-volume lush." Plus, high ABV happened. I had one that was 11% tonight. Those didn't exist at the Gym in 1981!!
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Don't misrepresent, Lenny.
I went out every night of finals week for four years. Very different than "partying 7 days a week for 4 years."
And WTF happened was that I gave up booze for 18+ years, from Oct 1992 to Feb 2011. I lost the ability to be a "high-volume lush." Plus, high ABV happened. I had one that was 11% tonight. Those didn't exist at the Gym in 1981!!
The thing about drinking at the Lanche was that each RWB was barely above 3.2 but at $0.25 per we would always down more than a dozen. There is something to be said for quantity over quality.
(http://img0.etsystatic.com/001/1/6157270/il_fullxfull.389981352_m51v.jpg)
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It's a national trend.
In the last 5 years, 15-20 craft breweries have opened in Connecticut.
Milwaukee has quadrupled the number of microbreweries in the last 3 years. There are over 30 in the greater Milwaukee area.
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It's doing great. They are opening up a new boutique hotel there - a Kimpton
https://www.kimptonhotels.com/boutique-hotels-in-milwaukee
You cannot find a parking space anywhere in the Third Ward on the weekends.
It is doing great, but I don't have a good handle on who is moving into the 3rd Ward and East Side....millenials or retirees....I think it's trending to the later rather than the former.
I do wonder what is going to happen to the housing market once the millenials get off their parents couch and get into housing.
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Don't misrepresent, Lenny.
I went out every night of finals week for four years. Very different than "partying 7 days a week for 4 years."
And WTF happened was that I gave up booze for 18+ years, from Oct 1992 to Feb 2011. I lost the ability to be a "high-volume lush." Plus, high ABV happened. I had one that was 11% tonight. Those didn't exist at the Gym in 1981!!
You gotta train my man. No particular reason other than busy/no opportunity I went a couple of weeks without having any beer, then went out to Denver for memorial day weekend....whew that first day of brewery tours was touch and go but by the time I got through the Denver trip and a work trip, last weekend 6 or 7 beers didn't even phase me :)
Clearly you're doing this drinking thing wrong ;)
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It's doing great. They are opening up a new boutique hotel there - a Kimpton
https://www.kimptonhotels.com/boutique-hotels-in-milwaukee
You cannot find a parking space anywhere in the Third Ward on the weekends.
Those are the local tourists looking for fish'n chips or Milwaukee onion rings, what about the real estate. Are the condos selling, appreciating, is the market overbuilt, over priced or what? When I walked the area it seemed that many of the apartments/condos were vacant. ??
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When I walked the area it seemed that many of the apartments/condos were vacant. ??
You might want to get your Coke bottles re-bottomed, Milhouse.
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Those are the local tourists looking for fish'n chips or Milwaukee onion rings, what about the real estate. Are the condos selling, appreciating, is the market overbuilt, over priced or what? When I walked the area it seemed that many of the apartments/condos were vacant. ??
Looks like things are doing pretty well to me
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Those are the local tourists looking for fish'n chips or Milwaukee onion rings, what about the real estate. Are the condos selling, appreciating, is the market overbuilt, over priced or what? When I walked the area it seemed that many of the apartments/condos were vacant. ??
Vogue, dude, do ya need a new shovel? The holes you keep digging yourself into gotta be hitting some bedrock by now, a'ina?
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Those are the local tourists looking for fish'n chips or Milwaukee onion rings, what about the real estate. Are the condos selling, appreciating, is the market overbuilt, over priced or what? When I walked the area it seemed that many of the apartments/condos were vacant. ??
Dis ain't 1965 no more wit Frenchy's and Eugenes. 3rd Ward is white hot. Lots of new apts. and I know of 2 more buildin's cumin' up. Da 'hole condo scene is roarin' downtown as no new condo developments are planned. Its da tits, hey?
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Here's a nice tidbit... the Metro Milwaukee area is slated to complete upwards of 4,500-5,000 apartments through the end of 2017, and it seems the Twin Cities doesn't go a week without announcing a new apartment development. Now I'm seeing more articles like this one today from the MSPBJ (http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2016/07/05/alatus-draws-fire-for-100m-rochester-plan.html) where tertiary markets like Rochester and Madison are getting in on apartment building en masse.
Demand has to be what's driving the need for all this apartment development... but if home prices are truly going up to bubble levels thereby forcing Millenials to rent, I would think the more dangerous bubble is in the rental sector, not in ownership.
Or maybe there is no bubble. Maybe we're simply in short supply of housing that isn't obsolete.... lest we forget, a crap ton of homes were built in this country in the 1950's and 60's, but that stock won't be propping up the supply much longer like it has for the last half century. Granted, much of the tear-down activity is in the older, more affluent areas, but I've seen two homes in the past month here in the northern suburbs being torn down that couldn't have been much more than 30-40 years old, if even. Maybe they had termites... or maybe 20-25 years is just too old for a house these days (much like our basketball arenas and baseball stadiums).
It's seems like what we have here is one big conundrum... something has to give, and with an aging population looking more and more at downsizing and/or modernizing, I'm wondering if the focus here shouldn't be so much on demand/behaviors/desires of the Millenials as it is on whatever the f$@# the Boomers are going to do.
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I can foresee a time, maybe in about a decade or so, where I may sell my house and just rent. I'm not going to need the size of my house. I'm not sure about entering the condo market. Finding a nice place to live, and then picking up and moving again in a year or two if I want, has some appeal.
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Here's a nice tidbit... the Metro Milwaukee area is slated to complete upwards of 4,500-5,000 apartments through the end of 2017, and it seems the Twin Cities doesn't go a week without announcing a new apartment development. Now I'm seeing more articles like this one today from the MSPBJ (http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2016/07/05/alatus-draws-fire-for-100m-rochester-plan.html) where tertiary markets like Rochester and Madison are getting in on apartment building en masse.
The Rochester case is kinda unique. A combination of pent-up demand, growth of UMR (a new 4-year U of MN campus that was a long time coming and growing fast), and the Destination Medical Center initiative - a huge combination of Mayo investments, state tax money finally flowing this direction from St. Paul (the flow has been the other direction forever), and lots of private investment. http://dmc.mn
Ten years ago, places like Olive Garden were winning local "best restaurant" awards. These days, we have a bunch of places that would be pretty competitive in MPLS or MKE.
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Bought a second home on a barrier island along the Treasure Coast of Florida two years ago. Values were down at the time and Florida was in the dumps. Bought low.
Have no intention of selling but if I did, I'd have a nice intermediate term arbitrage profit. Florida is doing very well, especially in resort and retirement communities. The number of baby boomers retiring between now and 2027 almost assures the market will do well.
That and the further inland you go, the more likely it becomes that your neighbors are reptiles with very sharp teeth!
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That and the further inland you go, the more likely it becomes that your neighbors are reptiles with very sharp teeth!
Seems like the perfect way to fix social security. ;D
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Anyone else thinking about a refi with the post brexit rate drop?
I just bought a year ago but could already refi to a fresh 30 yr fixed at .50% lower rate...all costs lender paid. Not seeing much of a downside. Would lower my payment $120 a month.
Someone please tell me if I'm missing something
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Anyone else thinking about a refi with the post brexit rate drop?
I just bought a year ago but could already refi to a fresh 30 yr fixed at .50% lower rate...all costs lender paid. Not seeing much of a downside. Would lower my payment $120 a month.
Someone please tell me if I'm missing something
Can't speak to your specific situation, but we refinanced about 1 1/2 years after we bought our house and saved a ton of money.
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Madison's apartment market is booming for 1 reason: Epic Systems.
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Can't speak to your specific situation, but we refinanced about 1 1/2 years after we bought our house and saved a ton of money.
Yeah, that seems to be the case here too. I'm just always super careful about gotchyas. Seems too good!
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Anyone else thinking about a refi with the post brexit rate drop?
I just bought a year ago but could already refi to a fresh 30 yr fixed at .50% lower rate...all costs lender paid. Not seeing much of a downside. Would lower my payment $120 a month.
Someone please tell me if I'm missing something
You aren't missing anything, although I don't know your exact situation.
We own our home outright but I'm thinking about taking a mortgage and then using that money to buy the vacation home we've been discussing. We'd get a better rate by getting a mortgage on our primary residence, and this would be the house we'd be most likely to sell first.
It's amazing to think we could get a 3% or lower mortgage. Who'da thunk it?
As for apartment building ... Charlotte is going absolutely crazy. A new one going up every few blocks, it seems. So far, they're filling 'em, too. Article in the Observer last week said occupancy was over 95%. Jeesh.
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Anyone else thinking about a refi with the post brexit rate drop?
I just bought a year ago but could already refi to a fresh 30 yr fixed at .50% lower rate...all costs lender paid. Not seeing much of a downside. Would lower my payment $120 a month.
Someone please tell me if I'm missing something
Remember that refinancing with a fresh 30 means that you are now taking 31 years to pay off your home instead of 30 - so part of your monthly payment reduction comes from stretching out the mortgage another year. However, if the interest savings make up for that extended term, go for it! Especially if there are no closing costs.
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Remember that refinancing with a fresh 30 means that you are now taking 31 years to pay off your home instead of 30 - so part of your monthly payment reduction comes from stretching out the mortgage another year. However, if the interest savings make up for that extended term, go for it! Especially if there are no closing costs.
Not necessarily. How many 30 year mortgages actually are not prepaid?
Very few!
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Not necessarily. How many 30 year mortgages actually are not prepaid?
Very few!
Last I heard that, on average, a 30-year mortgage is prepaid (a/k/a "paid off") sometime in the 9th year.
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Last I heard that, on average, a 30-year mortgage is prepaid (a/k/a "paid off") sometime in the 9th year.
Generally correct. CPR on a pool of 30 year fixed rate mortgages generally has them paid off in seven to eight years. In today's marketplace, maybe longer because the interest rate risk to the borrower is flushed out and mortgage mortality will be based on sale of a home or another life incident.
Anybody in this room who took out a 30 year mortgage in 1987 who still has it is financially illiterate.
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You aren't missing anything, although I don't know your exact situation.
We own our home outright but I'm thinking about taking a mortgage and then using that money to buy the vacation home we've been discussing. We'd get a better rate by getting a mortgage on our primary residence, and this would be the house we'd be most likely to sell first.
Interesting point. We did it the other way around. We originated a mortgage on our vacation home. Logic was we wanted a 7 to 10 year balloon and we would hope that within that time we would have the vacation home paid off. We ended up with a seven year balloon two years ago at a rate of around 3.50%. Makes very little sense for us to refi it off now as we are on a fast discretionary paydown.
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Last I heard that, on average, a 30-year mortgage is prepaid (a/k/a "paid off") sometime in the 9th year.
Which always makes me wonder why so many people do 30-year mortgages, and relatively few seem to do 15. If most can pay off in less than 15 years, why not take the lower interest rate?
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Which always makes me wonder why so many people do 30-year mortgages, and relatively few seem to do 15. If most can pay off in less than 15 years, why not take the lower interest rate?
Flexibility? lower minimum payment?
Just guesses
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Interesting point. We did it the other way around. We originated a mortgage on our vacation home. Logic was we wanted a 7 to 10 year balloon and we would hope that within that time we would have the vacation home paid off. We ended up with a seven year balloon two years ago at a rate of around 3.50%. Makes very little sense for us to refi it off now as we are on a fast discretionary paydown.
It's hard to complain about a 3.5% mortgage! I hope you and yours enjoy the vacation home for many, many years!!!
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Which always makes me wonder why so many people do 30-year mortgages, and relatively few seem to do 15. If most can pay off in less than 15 years, why not take the lower interest rate?
Because people don't actually pay it off in 9 years and continue to live in the house... They pay it off in a re-if or so they can buy a new house with a new mortgage.
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Which always makes me wonder why so many people do 30-year mortgages, and relatively few seem to do 15. If most can pay off in less than 15 years, why not take the lower interest rate?
There's a couple of reasons why the 30 year fixed is still popular. The first is insurance. The 30 year fixed is a borrower's bet that interest rates will (eventually, I guess) go up. Think of it as a natural hedge against the impact of higher interest rates. Rates go up, my payment stays the same.
The second is spread. With a fairly narrow spread between the long and short end of the yield curve, there is no payment incentive on a long-term mortgage to shorten up and face the very real threat that sometime in the three-to-five year time frame, I'll have a sharply higher payment, whether I go short and refinance in a daisy chain or take a floating rate product. Right now, there is comparatively little incentive to go short.
Ironically, when we bought our current home in Chicago in the 1990s, the spreads between the short and long-term mortgage rates were significant enough that Mrs. Dgies and I financed with a one-year ARM. The day the loan closed, we made an appointment with the loan officer for 11 months hence to refinance the ARM before the rate changed. We closed the second-year ARM literally an hour after we got off a plane from France. We did this for three years (in an era when absolutely no cost mortgages were in vogue) until the 30 year fixed fell to a point where we locked in long-term. That locked-in long-termer was the loan we had until the home paid off.
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Because people don't actually pay it off in 9 years and continue to live in the house... They pay it off in a re-if or so they can buy a new house with a new mortgage.
Right.
I didn't interpret that statistic as most Americans actually paying off their house in 9 years.
The mortgage was just paid off through one of three options...actually paying it down (probably the least amount of the three options), a refi, or selling the home. In all instances the original mortgage would be paid off.
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There's a couple of reasons why the 30 year fixed is still popular. The first is insurance. The 30 year fixed is a borrower's bet that interest rates will (eventually, I guess) go up. Think of it as a natural hedge against the impact of higher interest rates. Rates go up, my payment stays the same.
The second is spread. With a fairly narrow spread between the long and short end of the yield curve, there is no payment incentive on a long-term mortgage to shorten up and face the very real threat that sometime in the three-to-five year time frame, I'll have a sharply higher payment, whether I go short and refinance in a daisy chain or take a floating rate product. Right now, there is comparatively little incentive to go short.
Ironically, when we bought our current home in Chicago in the 1990s, the spreads between the short and long-term mortgage rates were significant enough that Mrs. Dgies and I financed with a one-year ARM. The day the loan closed, we made an appointment with the loan officer for 11 months hence to refinance the ARM before the rate changed. We closed the second-year ARM literally an hour after we got off a plane from France. We did this for three years (in an era when absolutely no cost mortgages were in vogue) until the 30 year fixed fell to a point where we locked in long-term. That locked-in long-termer was the loan we had until the home paid off.
I get the risks inherent in ARMs, but that wasn't what I was referring to.
I was talking 30-year fixed vs 15-year fixed. According to Bankrate.com, the current 30-year fixed refi is at about 3.5%, while the current 15-year fixed refi is at about 3.0%. If most people pay off their mortgages in 9 years anyway, they'd save money going the 15-year route.
I think Coleman hit it when he said the flexibility of having a lower mandatory payment was probably the key.
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I get the risks inherent in ARMs, but that wasn't what I was referring to.
I was talking 30-year fixed vs 15-year fixed. According to Bankrate.com, the current 30-year fixed refi is at about 3.5%, while the current 15-year fixed refi is at about 3.0%. If most people pay off their mortgages in 9 years anyway, they'd save money going the 15-year route.
I think Coleman hit it when he said the flexibility of having a lower mandatory payment was probably the key.
To be clear, 9 years is the average pay-off time because that figure is heavily influenced by people who re-finance or buy a new home before their mortgage matures... very few people actually pay more than the minimum payment every month, no matter if they have a 15-year or a 30-year mortgage. And even fewer actually live in the same place long enough to actually take their mortgage to maturity, again, whether 15 or 30 years, because of those who do make it to the final years before maturity typically pay it off at that point or they shift the mortgage into reverse.
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I was talking 30-year fixed vs 15-year fixed. According to Bankrate.com, the current 30-year fixed refi is at about 3.5%, while the current 15-year fixed refi is at about 3.0%. If most people pay off their mortgages in 9 years anyway, they'd save money going the 15-year route.
I doubt it. 50 bps for a 15 year reduction in term is a hugely narrow spread just to buy a bigger monthly payment. Take out the 30 and make incremental principal payments, like my wife does. 50 bps on a Qualified Mortgage isn't going to matter.
She did that years ago, even when I was unemployed.
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Rent: Shocking the number of rentals in the Twin Cities metro. Just amazing.
Mortgage: Have actually been thinking about paying down my mortgage, even though it's a 3.75% 30-year. Principal less than 40% of the value (just bought a couple months ago)... so, I've already used a bunch of cash.. and I like the idea of a 30 year mortgage at 3.75% if rates jump significantly.. but,... then again, I don't know if 3.75% isn't a decent return for some of my investment portfolio. Have cash sitting on the sidelines... crazy to pay off a bit more? All of it?
Obviously the flexibility plays into it.. but, .. 3.75% saved vs. using that money to play the market or get barely anything in cash?
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Rent: Shocking the number of rentals in the Twin Cities metro. Just amazing.
Mortgage: Have actually been thinking about paying down my mortgage, even though it's a 3.75% 30-year. Principal less than 40% of the value (just bought a couple months ago)... so, I've already used a bunch of cash.. and I like the idea of a 30 year mortgage at 3.75% if rates jump significantly.. but,... then again, I don't know if 3.75% isn't a decent return for some of my investment portfolio. Have cash sitting on the sidelines... crazy to pay off a bit more? All of it?
Obviously the flexibility plays into it.. but, .. 3.75% saved vs. using that money to play the market or get barely anything in cash?
At these rates, the best reason to pay down is a psychological one.
Do you want to own the home free and clear so you have no debt at all, not even mortgage debt? If so, that is the right answer for you.
We faced a similar decision and we LOVE not having a mortgage. I mentioned to my wife the possibility of refinancing and maybe using the cash to buy a vacation home, and she said something like: "We always wanted to be debt-free -- and now we are. Let's stay that way."
It's a peace of mind thing for us. For others, they'd rather have the mortgage and the cash flow. It's a very personal choice.
No "right" or "wrong" answer.
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I doubt it. 50 bps for a 15 year reduction in term is a hugely narrow spread just to buy a bigger monthly payment. Take out the 30 and make incremental principal payments, like my wife does. 50 bps on a Qualified Mortgage isn't going to matter.
She did that years ago, even when I was unemployed.
What do you doubt? 15-year mortgages are made at lower interest rates. And when an interest rate is lower, you pay less interest. And roughly 0.5% is pretty significant when you're talking rates in the 3.0-3.5% rates.
We did the same thing your wife did, with incremental principal payments, but the interest was accruing more slowly.
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At these rates, the best reason to pay down is a psychological one.
Do you want to own the home free and clear so you have no debt at all, not even mortgage debt? If so, that is the right answer for you.
We faced a similar decision and we LOVE not having a mortgage. I mentioned to my wife the possibility of refinancing and maybe using the cash to buy a vacation home, and she said something like: "We always wanted to be debt-free -- and now we are. Let's stay that way."
It's a peace of mind thing for us. For others, they'd rather have the mortgage and the cash flow. It's a very personal choice.
No "right" or "wrong" answer.
JB said he has cash siting on the sideline...so maybe it isn't a choice of being debt-free vs having cash flow. Maybe he can have both. We paid our mortgage off several years early, but never had to forego a single vacation, car or other purchase we otherwise wanted to make.
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Bought a second home on a barrier island along the Treasure Coast of Florida two years ago. Values were down at the time and Florida was in the dumps. Bought low.
Have no intention of selling but if I did, I'd have a nice intermediate term arbitrage profit. Florida is doing very well, especially in resort and retirement communities. The number of baby boomers retiring between now and 2027 almost assures the market will do well.
That and the further inland you go, the more likely it becomes that your neighbors are reptiles with very sharp teeth!
Nice investment.
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JB said he has cash siting on the sideline...so maybe it isn't a choice of being debt-free vs having cash flow. Maybe he can have both. We paid our mortgage off several years early, but never had to forego a single vacation, car or other purchase we otherwise wanted to make.
Ditto.
And good point.
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JB said he has cash siting on the sideline...so maybe it isn't a choice of being debt-free vs having cash flow. Maybe he can have both. We paid our mortgage off several years early, but never had to forego a single vacation, car or other purchase we otherwise wanted to make.
Yes... I'm trying to exclude any thoughts about "no mortgage payment!" or "I'm debt free!" (because I think some* debt can be very healthy)... no feelings, more a question of asset allocation.
Do I keep the cash on hand and make ~nothing, but incur no investment losses? Do I put more into stocks, bonds, other? Or do I "take" the 3.75% via mortgage prepayment? 3.75% with no risk of loss doesn't sound awful to me. (Although if mortgage rates shoot up to 8.0% and I'm in the house for years, with no debt on it... then I'm irked.)