More conference expansion nonsense

[Dawson Rental]

So how exactly is Notre Dame different from Texas?

[Texas/Notre Dame] sees itself as better than the rest of the schools in the [Big 12/ACC], demands special treatment as a condition for membership and earns more than the other schools through [The Longhorn Network/NBC].

The consensus on Texas is that it has a destabilizing influence on the Big 12 — simultaneously holding the conference together, yet keeping it from moving forward. The unequal partnership works against unity between the schools. I see no reason to view Notre Dame any differently.

ND, UConn and the like aren't part of the Big East anymore for a simple reason. They don't want what we want. Good riddance.

UConn isn't a part of the Big East anymore because they were left behind.  ND, on the other hand, isn't a member of the Big East anymore because they got a better deal and left.  Had ND not found something that they liked better, they would be in the Big East today, instead of Creighton, probably.

[Herman Cain]

UConn isn't a part of the Big East anymore because they were left behind.  ND, on the other hand, isn't a member of the Big East anymore because they got a better deal and left.  Had ND not found something that they liked better, they would be in the Big East today, instead of Creighton, probably.

I agree with this analysis.

[Marcus92]

I disagree. Since Notre Dame has resisted joining a BCS conference as a full member, they were never part of the forces that pulled the Big East apart.

My logic is this:

A. All the current Big East schools focus on college basketball.
B. That focus is what unites the Big East.
C. Notre Dame focuses on football.
D. What does not unite the Big East divides it.
E. Notre Dame helped divide the Big East.

To your point, since Notre Dame didn't compete in the Big East football conference, it probably had no role in campaigning for new football-focused schools. But I can't say ND did anything to help keep the Big East together, either. And the fact that they're no longer part of the Big East is equally telling.

[Marcus92]

UConn isn't a part of the Big East anymore because they were left behind.  ND, on the other hand, isn't a member of the Big East anymore because they got a better deal and left.  Had ND not found something that they liked better, they would be in the Big East today, instead of Creighton, probably.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, but I think it comes down to semantics at this point.

For ND for find "something that they like better," they have to want something better in the first place. (This goes back to Notre Dame seeing itself as better than other schools and demanding special treatment as a condition for membership.) In other words, Notre Dame doesn't want what the rest of the schools in the Big East want.

[GGGG]

My logic is this:

A. All the current Big East schools focus on college basketball.
B. That focus is what unites the Big East.
C. Notre Dame focuses on football.
D. What does not unite the Big East divides it.
E. Notre Dame helped divide the Big East.

I don't think that is terribly logical.

[Marcus92]

I don't think that is terribly logical.

Please elaborate. I'm doing my best to understand the conference landscape as it is, not as I want it to be.

[GGGG]

Because I don't think ND's admission into the BE, with the football being kept independent, would "divide" the BE.  It's membership in the BE would have everything to do with the sports it sponsors with an emphasis on basketball.  They know this. 

Since they have a television contract solely for football, it wouldn't interfere in any way.

The BE would be foolish to turn them down.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Isn't ND joining the BIG Whatever in hockey now?

[Herman Cain]

Because I don't think ND's admission into the BE, with the football being kept independent, would "divide" the BE.  It's membership in the BE would have everything to do with the sports it sponsors with an emphasis on basketball.  They know this. 

Since they have a television contract solely for football, it wouldn't interfere in any way.

The BE would be foolish to turn them down.

The Big East would take Notre Dame in a heartbeat. However, ND has zero interest in the Big East.

Notre Dame outlined the reasons it wants to be in the ACC in a lot of detail at the time they made the switch  and none of that changed,  and in most cases it has only increased the rationale for their association with the ACC. 

Notre Dame is for all intents and purposes a permanent member of the ACC. The sole exception is the Big Ten let them in as an associate member in Ice Hockey. Notre Dame has everything they want right now.

[GGGG]

The Big East would take Notre Dame in a heartbeat. However, ND has zero interest in the Big East.

Notre Dame outlined the reasons it wants to be in the ACC in a lot of detail at the time they made the switch  and none of that changed,  and in most cases it has only increased the rationale for their association with the ACC. 

Notre Dame is for all intents and purposes a permanent member of the ACC. The sole exception is the Big Ten let them in as an associate member in Ice Hockey. Notre Dame has everything they want right now.

If you would have been paying attention, the entire assumption around this discussion is that ND would be looking for a place to land IF the ACC broke apart due to B12 and B10 expansion.

No kidding they aren't interested now.

[Coleman]

The Big East would take Notre Dame in a heartbeat. However, ND has zero interest in the Big East.

Notre Dame outlined the reasons it wants to be in the ACC in a lot of detail at the time they made the switch  and none of that changed,  and in most cases it has only increased the rationale for their association with the ACC. 

Notre Dame is for all intents and purposes a permanent member of the ACC. The sole exception is the Big Ten let them in as an associate member in Ice Hockey. Notre Dame has everything they want right now.

This conversation isn't about right now. It is about what would happen if the ACC got gutted by the SEC and Big10.

[Herman Cain]

If you would have been paying attention, the entire assumption around this discussion is that ND would be looking for a place to land IF the ACC broke apart due to B12 and B10 expansion.

No kidding they aren't interested now.

The ACC is not ever getting gutted. That is a fantasy. They have as much chance of getting gutted as Kostas does of signing with MU.

If the ACC Broke Apart, obviously they would land with the Big East and we would take them in a heartbeat as I mentioned.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The ACC is not ever getting gutted. That is a fantasy. They have as much chance of getting gutted as Kostas does of signing with MU.

If the ACC Broke Apart, obviously they would land with the Big East and we would take them in a heartbeat as I mentioned.

Its them or the Big 12. Unless you really think  the B1G and SEC will never expand again

[Herman Cain]

Its them or the Big 12. Unless you really think  the B1G and SEC will never expand again

Big 12 is more likely to be gutted by the Big Ten. Lots of  Big 12 schools would like a divorce from Texas.

ACC is in love with itself.

[GGGG]

Big 12 is more likely to be gutted by the Big Ten. Lots of  Big 12 schools would like a divorce from Texas.

What schools would the B10 want from the B12.

[Herman Cain]

What schools would the B10 want from the B12.

Oklahoma and Kansas would be the top prospects. Oklahoma is one of the all time greats in football and Kansas one of the all time greats in basketball. Both are the kind of must see TV that enhance the Big Ten network. Big Ten will make an academic exception for Oklahoma just like they did for Nebraska.

[GGGG]

Oklahoma isn't going anywhere without Texas.  You might be right about Kansas, but I think the B10 would rather have ACC schools than both of them.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Big 12 is more likely to be gutted by the Big Ten. Lots of  Big 12 schools would like a divorce from Texas.

ACC is in love with itself.

This has nothing to do with how the ACC and B12 feel about themselves. Every one of them would take the money the B1G  or  SEC offers (except ND and maybe Texas).  It has everything to do with what the  B1G and SEC want.

You gotta remember who is in the drivers seat. Its not the ACC or B12.

[Benny B]

Exactly one. Though it was very brief and we didn't talk basketball. No I don't travel in those kinds of circles. If you do, congrats. I hope you would understand that no University President would ever say anything negative about their athletic conference and would do their absolute best to paint the picture that all the member schools get together on the weekends to drink some cold ones and sing kumbaya.

Instead, I will listen the fairly consistent media coverage and common sense that dictates that the ACC schools are livid about the ACC Network not getting off the ground, that the ACC Network is not close to getting off the ground, and that several ACC member schools would jump ship the second either the SEC or BIG came calling.

The harsh reality is that conference realignment is about one thing and one thing only. Money. The B1G can outspend everybody. The SEC can outspend everyone but the B1G. Either of those conferences can cherry pick any school they want from any of the other conferences (except Notre Dame and maybe Texas due to their special circumstances). The PAC 12 is geographically insulated, so they are safe. So either the B12 or the ACC or both will get raided next. My personal opinion is that the ACC schools will be more valuable to the B1G and SEC so they will get raided first.

Conference will only continue to grow. The B1G and SEC are king. They won't be adding any mid major schools. Other high major schools will need to lose schools in order for the SEC and B1G to grow. Its only a matter of who and when.

I don't disagree with the rest, but as far as the bolded part, no reasonable person can disagree with that.  Except perhaps the spouses of said presidents.

[Herman Cain]

Oklahoma isn't going anywhere without Texas.  You might be right about Kansas, but I think the B10 would rather have ACC schools than both of them.

No question the Big Ten covets the ACC.  ACC is going to get their network though. I speak frequently with the people involved in this. It is going to happen.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No question the Big Ten covets the ACC.  ACC is going to get their network though. I speak frequently with the people involved in this. It is going to happen.

Even if they do, which is a big if. The will still make pennies compared to the B1G and nickels compared to the SEC. The would still jump ship. $$$$ is the only thing that matters

[Herman Cain]

Even if they do, which is a big if. The will still make pennies compared to the B1G and nickels compared to the SEC. The would still jump ship. $$$$ is the only thing that matters

There network will do fine. a network has to run 24 7 365 and the ACC has a lot of quality content.   
Other considerations
1. they have exit fees of 52 million.
2. most importantly They also  have ceded all their home  media rights to the ACC in the event they leave up to 2027, so what in effect will the Big Ten or SEC be paying for ? They are in business to make money too.


 

[Dawson Rental]

Oklahoma and Kansas would be the top prospects. Oklahoma is one of the all time greats in football and Kansas one of the all time greats in basketball. Both are the kind of must see TV that enhance the Big Ten network. Big Ten will make an academic exception for Oklahoma just like they did for Nebraska.

The BiG hasn't shown any love recently for more midwestern TV markets, their attention has been directed to the east.

[Dawson Rental]

There network will do fine. a network has to run 24 7 365 and the ACC has a lot of quality content.   
Other considerations
1. they have exit fees of 52 million.
2. most importantly They also  have ceded all their home  media rights to the ACC in the event they leave up to 2027, so what in effect will the Big Ten or SEC be paying for ? They are in business to make money too.

The discussion has been premised on the ACC network not happening by a July deadline leading to a voiding of the media rights assignments.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There network will do fine. a network has to run 24 7 365 and the ACC has a lot of quality content.   
Other considerations
1. they have exit fees of 52 million.
2. most importantly They also  have ceded all their home  media rights to the ACC in the event they leave up to 2027, so what in effect will the Big Ten or SEC be paying for ? They are in business to make money too.

Small barriers for powerhouses like the B1G and SEC. I don't think the ACC Network will launch, and if it does, I dont think it will be successful