ellensons

[mu72warrior]

Enough about the Ellenson's, They used Marquette as a means to an end, and visa versa. We're not talking division 2 here there's BS going on in every successful program. Breath in, Breath out, Move on!

[Babybluejeans]

Enough about the Ellenson's, They used Marquette as a means to an end, and visa versa. We're not talking division 2 here there's BS going on in every successful program. Breath in, Breath out, Move on!

"They used Marquette as a means to an end" is an awfully presumptuous conclusion. If Wally and Henry were a package deal, almost every program in the country would have taken it. Henry was going to use ANY college to showcase his skills and wind up in the NBA. So, let's not act like we did WE or HE any favors by "letting" them play together.

If I remember correctly, the reason Wally chose Marquette is because he was sold on the idea that they wanted him to play ball, not just to be used a pawn to get his brother. Naive? Perhaps. But *if that's how he was pitched* then it it is problem, in my
mind, that the program left him out to dry after HE left. I think what ultimately makes people uncomfortable--and the reason there are 39 threads about this topic--is that it was so coldly utilitarian and, more than anything, may have involved false pretenses.

[bilsu]

Besides that how much did MU benefit Henry? Certainly, Henry would of benefited more by playing on a team that made the NCAA tournament. Did Wojo do anything to benefit Henry?

[mu72warrior]

I've worked 42yrs and never made the money he'll make for just signing on the dotted line, even if he destroys his knee in the first practice. He never intended to stay more than 1yr in my opinion. Wally was a nothing special player who still has a scholie if he wants it. Where's the foul?

[brewcity77]

I've worked 42yrs and never made the money he'll make for just signing on the dotted line, even if he destroys his knee in the first practice. He never intended to stay more than 1yr in my opinion. Wally was a nothing special player who still has a scholie if he wants it. Where's the foul?

This argument is a fallacy. You can't compare your own (or my own, or whomever's) situation to Henry and act like it's justified by him signing a larger contract than we ever will. It's an apples to orchards comparison.

Further, it seems even worse to say "it's okay if we mistreat X because his acquaintance Y will come out okay." Henry doing well does not justify punishing Wally.

Not trying to drag this out again, but this is just a poorly constructed argument.

[CountryRoads]

If I remember correctly, the reason Wally chose Marquette is because he was sold on the idea that they wanted him to play ball, not just to be used a pawn to get his brother. Naive? Perhaps. But *if that's how he was pitched* then it it is problem, in my
mind, that the program left him out to dry after HE left.

This is no proof whatsoever that this wasn't the case. Simply put, if Wally was better he would still be on the team. The coaches recruited Wally because they felt that eventually he would be a contributer at the high major level. In other words, the same reason that every college prospect is recruited. Wally wasn't a contributer (like many other recruits) and was "asked" to leave much like the other 700(?) players a year. To give him special treatment because he had a former brother who played for the team seems like it could be detrimental to team chemistry.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Besides that how much did MU benefit Henry? Certainly, Henry would of benefited more by playing on a team that made the NCAA tournament. Did Wojo do anything to benefit Henry?

So if he went to Kentucky, played 1/2 the minutes, lost in the second round of the NCAA tournament and as a result of not being "featured", and thus sliding to the 20th pick....that would have benefited him more?

[We R Final Four]

Certainly, Henry would of benefited more by playing on a team that made the NCAA tournament.

How would he have benefitted more? He may have come off the bench, he may have played less minutes, he may have been pulled more often, the offense may not have run through him.

If Henry had played on a team that made the tourney....then he would have gotten the national exposure to improve his draft status?
I wish we would make the tourney, but to say he would have certainly benefitted more had we made it--I don't follow.
Most likely a top ten pick with or without a tourney game on his resume.

[mu72warrior]

Marquette (or schools like it) was the perfect venue for Henry, how much time would he have played at a top10 school. He received a lot of play, leading to freshman of the year etc. If it would lead MU to a Championship they could clear half the bench every year for better players as far as I see it. Players don't get enough playing time, they leave. Get offered money, they leave. It's a business. Do you really think MU puts out millions of dollars so people can get an education? Wally was the cost of doing business.

[#UnleashSean]

So if he went to Kentucky, played 1/2 the minutes, lost in the second round of the NCAA tournament and as a result of not being "featured", and thus sliding to the 20th pick....that would have benefited him more?

He would still be a top 10 even if he came off the bench and played 7 minutes

[ChicosBailBonds]

He would still be a top 10 even if he came off the bench and played 7 minutes

Not according to the Draft Express founder I spoke to.  I'll have that interview next week.   Players move up and down based on a lot of things, including their ability to shine on their own team and against the competition.  Ellenson's lack of athleticism isn't nearly as pronounced on a team like MU, but would be greatly pronounced on a team like Kentucky, which is why I used that example specifically.

Sure, he would still be first round, but he would not be top 10.  Hell, there's no guarantee he goes top 10 even now. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

So if he went to Kentucky, played 1/2 the minutes, lost in the second round of the NCAA tournament and as a result of not being "featured", and thus sliding to the 20th pick....that would have benefited him more?

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I love that Chicos now comes out on the side of The Program when we were subjected to thousands of posts re: Newbill's Injustice

[Silkk the Shaka]

Not according to the Draft Express founder I spoke to.  I'll have that interview next week.   Players move up and down based on a lot of things, including their ability to shine on their own team and against the competition.  Ellenson's lack of athleticism isn't nearly as pronounced on a team like MU, but would be greatly pronounced on a team like Kentucky, which is why I used that example specifically.

Sure, he would still be first round, but he would not be top 10.  Hell, there's no guarantee he goes top 10 even now.

Getting fond flashbacks to your "interview" with Jerry Palm "proving" the Soft Bubble Of 2010, followed by your "interview" with a draft expert (presumably the same one) that "proved" Vander Blue Made The Wrong Decision. You've become a self-parody of a self-parody. High comedy!

[TheTulsaWarrior]

Henry was showcased by Marquette and that was done in a high visibility NBA city, in a league whose schools are pretty much based in NBA cities.  While there is debate on the new Big East and the old Big East the factor of showcasing has not changed.  It's easier for pro scouts to get a first hand feel for a player in the Big East simply because the arena is nearby and there's more of a chance to get first hand information.

I'd say the Ellenson/Marquette relationship was symbiotic over the past two years.  There were benefits on both sides.  A marriage of family and school that was not likely at other institutions.  Marquette supporters have been universally supportive of Henry's decision to be one and done.  He did clearly benefit from his time at Marquette where he was immediately put in the category of future NBA Hall of Fame members Doc Rivers and Dwyane Wade.

The question is what is owed to the Ellenson family and what obligation does the family have to Marquette?
What long term harm has anyone suffered?  Have careers been ruined?  Or is this really a "push back"  after an intense and close relationship moves into another phase?  We have an extremely young man moving into the adult world of the NBA and a brother who loves basketball but loves and excels as a world class high jumper. 

Wally has a clear path to go for his dream of the Olympics -- a path without distractions and a feeling of obligation to the basketball team.  Wojo, for the good of the program, needs someone who can be totally focused on school and basketball.

As a boss, many times I would tell an employee I was not being fair with them but I would make it worth something to them down the road and I lived up to that promise.  In the end it built loyalty and helped me with future hires because those people knew about my track record.  My advise is never burn a bridge -- you may need it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I love that Chicos now comes out on the side of The Program when we were subjected to thousands of posts re: Newbill's Injustice

Where am I coming to the side of the program?  Good Lord you are stupid sometimes.   I said yesterday, this whole thing is squirmy as hell.  Perhaps you missed that, which would be surprising as much as you stalk me.

I simply answered the question that Bilsu stated, which I believe Bilsu to be wrong.  It by no means is siding with the program at all, but explaining that Henry probably got more benefit from being the MAN rather than being just one of a bunch of others, if he went to Kentucky.

Try to pull your head out of your ass and read next time.  Thanks.

[hoops12]

I heard that Wally was told where he fit into the team lineup going forward and he didn't like it. He was basically told "the truth" that he didn't figure into playing time for next season. Also, Wally's attitude was brought into question as well. Players, whether they have a brother on the team or not, have to live up to expectations as a player and a teammate. Wally consistently wore a chip on his shoulders last season and wasn't the easiest to work with at times. More will come out, but Wojo is smarter than what some are trying to shovel on this board. He wants the best for the Ellenson's, but his priority is to take care of the Marquette program first and foremost. That's why he is called a head coach. Some that call themselves fans of the program sure like to turn on the program (or coach) quickly before they even knowing all the facts. Give it some time and we will learn all sides of the story. I am willing to wait to hear what all sides have to say after emotions die down.

GO MU!

[Litehouse]

Wow, a lot of people should just stop posting for awhile.

[Loose Cannon]

Wow, a lot of people should just stop posting for awhile.

YES!!

[Warrior Farls]

This is no proof whatsoever that this wasn't the case. Simply put, if Wally was better he would still be on the team. The coaches recruited Wally because they felt that eventually he would be a contributer at the high major level. In other words, the same reason that every college prospect is recruited. Wally wasn't a contributer (like many other recruits) and was "asked" to leave much like the other 700(?) players a year. To give him special treatment because he had a former brother who played for the team seems like it could be detrimental to team chemistry.

They're not brothers anymore?

[keefe]

Henry was showcased by Marquette and that was done in a high visibility NBA city, in a league whose schools are pretty much based in NBA cities.  While there is debate on the new Big East and the old Big East the factor of showcasing has not changed.  It's easier for pro scouts to get a first hand feel for a player in the Big East simply because the arena is nearby and there's more of a chance to get first hand information.

I am not sure being in a "high visibility NBA city" offers any advantage. If this were a factor then those poor bastards exiled to Lexington, Lawrence, Durham, Chapel Hill, East Lansing, Bloomington, Tucson... would never make the show.

Milwaukee has a team (which is not affirmation the city should have a team) but the returns to Marquette are marginal.

One of Dodds' mantras is how a new arena for the Bucks conveys value for Marquette. Frankly, Marquette basketball needs to stand on its own merit. Being the second class tenant in a new building is not a barometer of success.

[MU82]

Enough about the Ellenson's, They used Marquette as a means to an end, and visa versa. We're not talking division 2 here there's BS going on in every successful program. Breath in, Breath out, Move on!

Definitely, the best way to say "enough" and the best way to "move on" is by starting the 843rd thread on the subject.

I mean, how are we supposed to catch our "breathe" around here?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

He would still be a top 10 even if he came off the bench and played 7 minutes

No, he would not. 

[keefe]

They used Marquette as a means to an end, and visa versa.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No, he would not.

+50

Whatever GM picked a guy that only played 7 minutes a game in the top 10 would be run out of town.

[keefe]

+50

Whatever GM picked a guy that only played 7 minutes a game in the top 10 would be run out of town.

The Darko Effect