Marquette: McAdams matter FAQs

[brandx]

So if a theology professor states emphatically in class that homosexual behavior is sinful according to church teaching, is that harassment? If two or more students come out of that class and start discussing homosexual behavior in the hall way and some other student overhears that conversation and is "offended" is that harassment according to Title IX training? How does one teach Catholic doctrine and still comply with Title IX directives without "offending" someone.

Does one of the students post the name of the other on the Internet strictly solely for the purpose of humiliating that student?

[GWSwarrior]

So if a theology professor states emphatically in class that homosexual behavior is sinful according to church teaching, is that harassment? If two or more students come out of that class and start discussing homosexual behavior in the hall way and some other student overhears that conversation and is "offended" is that harassment according to Title IX training? How does one teach Catholic doctrine and still comply with Title IX directives without "offending" someone.

Catholic Doctrine needs to catch up with the times.  also people that claim homosexuality as a sin is catholic doctrine need to review the teachings of Christ and also the teachings of the Catholic Church

[muwarrior69]

Catholic Doctrine needs to catch up with the times.  also people that claim homosexuality as a sin is catholic doctrine need to review the teachings of Christ and also the teachings of the Catholic Church

From the catechism of the Catholic Church:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.


http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

[Coleman]

From the catechism of the Catholic Church:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.


http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

Also from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter.


And from Pope Francis:

"If a person is gay and seeks out the Lord and is willing, who am I to judge that person?" the pope says. "I was paraphrasing by heart the Catechism of the Catholic Church where it says that these people should be treated with delicacy and not be marginalized."

"I am glad that we are talking about 'homosexual people' because before all else comes the individual person, in his wholeness and dignity," he continues. "And people should not be defined only by their sexual tendencies: let us not forget that God loves all his creatures and we are destined to receive his infinite love."


Finally Vatican II and the primacy of conscience:

"On his part, man perceives and acknowledges the imperatives of the divine law through the mediation of conscience. In all his activity a man is bound to follow his conscience in order that he may come to God, the end and purpose of life. It follows that he is not to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his conscience. Nor, on the other hand, is he to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience, especially in matters religious. The reason is that the exercise of religion, of its very nature, consists before all else in those internal, voluntary and free acts whereby man sets the course of his life directly toward God. No merely human power can either command or prohibit acts of this kind." - Dignitatis Humanae


The Church moves slowly. It measures the years in centuries and millennia. This can be frustrating for humans who live 80 years, if they are lucky. The Church didn't apologize to Galileo for the wrongs committed to him until 1992. I have no doubt doctrine on homosexuality will develop in accordance with findings in science and psychology, just as it did with the former beliefs about a geocentric universe...what I don't know is how quickly.

[GWSwarrior]

Also from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.


And from Pope Francis:

"If a person is gay and seeks out the Lord and is willing, who am I to judge that person?" the pope says. "I was paraphrasing by heart the Catechism of the Catholic Church where it says that these people should be treated with delicacy and not be marginalized."

"I am glad that we are talking about 'homosexual people' because before all else comes the individual person, in his wholeness and dignity," he continues. "And people should not be defined only by their sexual tendencies: let us not forget that God loves all his creatures and we are destined to receive his infinite love."


Finally Vatican II and the primacy of conscience:

"On his part, man perceives and acknowledges the imperatives of the divine law through the mediation of conscience. In all his activity a man is bound to follow his conscience in order that he may come to God, the end and purpose of life. It follows that he is not to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his conscience. Nor, on the other hand, is he to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience, especially in matters religious. The reason is that the exercise of religion, of its very nature, consists before all else in those internal, voluntary and free acts whereby man sets the course of his life directly toward God. No merely human power can either command or prohibit acts of this kind." - Dignitatis Humanae


The Church moves slowly. It measures the years in centuries and millennia. This can be frustrating for humans who live 80 years, if they are lucky. The Church didn't apologize to Galileo for the wrongs committed to him until 1992. I have no doubt doctrine on homosexuality will develop in accordance with findings in science and psychology, just as it did with the former beliefs about a geocentric universe...what I don't know is how quickly.

Maybe you should read the Amoris Laetitia

[GWSwarrior]

Also from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter.


And from Pope Francis:

"If a person is gay and seeks out the Lord and is willing, who am I to judge that person?" the pope says. "I was paraphrasing by heart the Catechism of the Catholic Church where it says that these people should be treated with delicacy and not be marginalized."

"I am glad that we are talking about 'homosexual people' because before all else comes the individual person, in his wholeness and dignity," he continues. "And people should not be defined only by their sexual tendencies: let us not forget that God loves all his creatures and we are destined to receive his infinite love."


Finally Vatican II and the primacy of conscience:

"On his part, man perceives and acknowledges the imperatives of the divine law through the mediation of conscience. In all his activity a man is bound to follow his conscience in order that he may come to God, the end and purpose of life. It follows that he is not to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his conscience. Nor, on the other hand, is he to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience, especially in matters religious. The reason is that the exercise of religion, of its very nature, consists before all else in those internal, voluntary and free acts whereby man sets the course of his life directly toward God. No merely human power can either command or prohibit acts of this kind." - Dignitatis Humanae


The Church moves slowly. It measures the years in centuries and millennia. This can be frustrating for humans who live 80 years, if they are lucky. The Church didn't apologize to Galileo for the wrongs committed to him until 1992. I have no doubt doctrine on homosexuality will develop in accordance with findings in science and psychology, just as it did with the former beliefs about a geocentric universe...what I don't know is how quickly.

Additionally to say that because it has been doctrine for over 1000 years doesn't mean it shouldn't and cannot change. Let's not forget that the teaching of the Bible, the teachings of Christ and Catholic Doctrine were all made up by a few guys with intent to convert others to their religion in order to give themselves more power.

[Coleman]

Maybe you should read the Amoris Laetitia

I've read it multiple times. Plenty of good stuff in there too.

[Coleman]

Additionally to say that because it has been doctrine for over 1000 years doesn't mean it shouldn't and cannot change. Let's not forget that the teaching of the Bible, the teachings of Christ and Catholic Doctrine were all made up by a few guys with intent to convert others to their religion in order to give themselves more power.

I agree with your first sentence.

The second sentence is a pretty broad generalization, with varying amounts of truth depending on what specific element of Church history you are talking about. Certainly a lot of the power structures in the emerging early Church were a reflection of broader structures in society at the time, reflecting a male-dominated hierarchical Roman society.  However, this took shape centuries after the time of Christ and the writings of the New Testament. The Church prior to the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 was a rather egalitarian belief system that undermined traditional power structures.

[GWSwarrior]

I agree with your first sentence.

The second sentence is a pretty broad generalization, with varying amounts of truth depending on what specific element of Church history you are talking about. Certainly a lot of the power structures in the emerging early Church were a reflection of broader structures in society at the time, reflecting a male-dominated hierarchical Roman society.  However, this took shape centuries after the time of Christ and the writings of the New Testament. The Church prior to the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 was a rather egalitarian belief system that undermined traditional power structures.

You are presupposing (erroneously) that there was even a person named Christ.

[Coleman]

You are presupposing (erroneously) that there was even a person named Christ.

There was not a person named Christ. That is an honorific bestowed by later followers.

However, there is quite a bit of historical (non-Biblical) evidence for a person named Yeshua who lived in Roman Palestine during the period BC 6 - AD 30, who later was called Christos (Greek translation of Hebrew "Messiah" or annointed one) by his followers.

EDIT: Since I know you're going to ask, Flavius Josephus and Tacitus

[muwarrior69]

Also from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter.


And from Pope Francis:

"If a person is gay and seeks out the Lord and is willing, who am I to judge that person?" the pope says. "I was paraphrasing by heart the Catechism of the Catholic Church where it says that these people should be treated with delicacy and not be marginalized."

"I am glad that we are talking about 'homosexual people' because before all else comes the individual person, in his wholeness and dignity," he continues. "And people should not be defined only by their sexual tendencies: let us not forget that God loves all his creatures and we are destined to receive his infinite love."


Finally Vatican II and the primacy of conscience:

"On his part, man perceives and acknowledges the imperatives of the divine law through the mediation of conscience. In all his activity a man is bound to follow his conscience in order that he may come to God, the end and purpose of life. It follows that he is not to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his conscience. Nor, on the other hand, is he to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience, especially in matters religious. The reason is that the exercise of religion, of its very nature, consists before all else in those internal, voluntary and free acts whereby man sets the course of his life directly toward God. No merely human power can either command or prohibit acts of this kind." - Dignitatis Humanae


The Church moves slowly. It measures the years in centuries and millennia. This can be frustrating for humans who live 80 years, if they are lucky. The Church didn't apologize to Galileo for the wrongs committed to him until 1992. I have no doubt doctrine on homosexuality will develop in accordance with findings in science and psychology, just as it did with the former beliefs about a geocentric universe...what I don't know is how quickly.

Yes, treat the person with respect; but homosexual acts (behavior) are still intrinsically disordered and are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. This is Catholic teaching today.  Yet, MU promotes the LGBTQ community and their behavior while remaining indifferent to Catholic teaching.

[GGGG]

Yes, treat the person with respect; but homosexual acts (behavior) are still intrinsically disordered and are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. This is Catholic teaching today.  Yet, MU promotes the LGBTQ community and their behavior while remaining indifferent to Catholic teaching.

Only if you decide to pick and choose the evidence you use to support your position.

[mayfairskatingrink]

Any idea when that will be? Do they televise court proceedings in Wisconsin? If we don't make the NCAA next season, McAdams vs. MU just might be the most entertaining game in town.

If this goes to the WI Supreme Court, oral arguments will be televised on Wisconsin Eye.

And the proceedings are open to the public.

[forgetful]

Yes, treat the person with respect; but homosexual acts (behavior) are still intrinsically disordered and are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. This is Catholic teaching today.  Yet, MU promotes the LGBTQ community and their behavior while remaining indifferent to Catholic teaching.

Homosexual acts does not refer to behavior.  It means sexual intercourse.  There is no sin in being homosexual, acting homosexual, or behaving homosexually. 

The church still does state that engaging in homosexual intercourse is a sin.  That is actually quite weakly supported by biblical texts.

[Sir Lawrence]

Summary Judgment motion hearing scheduled for 2/2/2017
Trial date set for June 19, 2017

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/courtRecordEvents.do;jsessionid=88FC7B5CB5F09ADEE1209F82A3BF4555.render6?caseNo=2016CV003396&countyNo=40&cacheId=3E6496F5C5BAB4F71BB03E1FCB331833&recordCount=11&offset=0&linkOnlyToForm=false&sortDirection=DESC

[Galway Eagle]

Yes, treat the person with respect; but homosexual acts (behavior) are still intrinsically disordered and are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. This is Catholic teaching today.  Yet, MU promotes the LGBTQ community and their behavior while remaining indifferent to Catholic teaching.

What exactly is this natural law you speak of? Do other homosexual animals know they're breaking it? What about the animals that change gender when need be?

[rocket surgeon]

What exactly is this natural law you speak of? Do other homosexual animals know they're breaking it? What about the animals that change gender when need be?

i'm thinking, but i cannot speak for warrior, that the natural law he is alluding to is the one that "goes forth and multiplies"  last time i read about the alternative life styles, they haven't quite figured out a way to do this; not for a lack of trying though-ayn'er?

which animals are "homosexual" and "change gender"?  you do realize the difference however between animals and humans, right?  something about a soul...? 

[warriorchick]

which animals are "homosexual" and "change gender"?   

Here you go:

http://bfy.tw/4yJR

http://bfy.tw/6ezz

[Coleman]

The traditional Catholic "natural law" is based on medieval understandings of science. Thomas Aquinas was a genius philosopher but it is silly to impose his worldview, informed by 13th century science, on 21st century moral questions.

I am a churchgoing Catholic but this teaching holds literally zero water with me.

[naginiF]

Here you go:

http://bfy.tw/4yJR

http://bfy.tw/6ezz

If there was a compliment 10X better than "super awesomely well done", it still wouldn't give this enough credit.

[real chili 83]

Here you go:

http://bfy.tw/4yJR

http://bfy.tw/6ezz

You gotta lot of free time ai'na?

[warriorchick]

You gotta lot of free time ai'na?

Took me 45 seconds, start to finish.

Bonus cut!

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/xPTXVqETBM4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/xPTXVqETBM4</a>

[naginiF]

Took me 45 seconds, start to finish.

Bonus cut!

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/xPTXVqETBM4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/xPTXVqETBM4</a>

made it 1:31 until the background singers echoed "squirming in her beak". 

[Benny B]

What exactly is this natural law you speak of? Do other homosexual animals know they're breaking it? What about the animals that change gender when need be?

So that's what they were keeping in that barn along I-94 in Racine County.

[rocket surgeon]

If there was a compliment 10X better than "super awesomely well done", it still wouldn't give this enough credit.

it was good..., but "come on man"!!  you that easily excited Eyn'a?