Marquette: McAdams matter FAQs

[keefe]

Ethics is ALWAYS situational.

This reminds me of a humorous wall scratch I read in the Marquette library:

Kubla Khan

Immanuel Kant

[Coleman]

Well, we will just have to disagree.

As Fr Davitt always said - the world is governed by certain absolutes and moral imperatives.

Indeed. The application of these principles is entirely governed by the situation.

The entire field of Ethics can be boiled down to deciding how principles are translated into behavior, which again means inserting moral absolutes into the messy, grey, foggy realm of everyday life otherwise known as "the situation" that brings upon a given ethical dilemma. Life is a mess.

[mu03eng]

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes" - Obi Wan Kenobi

[mu_hilltopper]

If anyone was curious of opinion outside the MU bubble ..

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4hkn7k/a_university_moved_to_fire_a_professor_after_he/

[Sir Lawrence]

This reminds me of a humorous wall scratch I read in the Marquette library:

Kubla Khan

Immanuel Kant

That's fantastic.

[mayfairskatingrink]

If anyone was curious of opinion outside the MU bubble ..

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4hkn7k/a_university_moved_to_fire_a_professor_after_he/

LOL, most of those commenting are in the "liberal bubble" (check their previous posts, lol) and link to far left Dailynous, so they have a definite POV, too.

Reddit is a bunch of "bubbles" and people congregate in like minded circles.

Would be interesting to know how the calls/emails to the university break down in support of.

[mayfairskatingrink]

Did anyone else have Snow for any classes at MU?

I'm pretty sure I had her in the late 80's/early 90's and she was hippie-ish and out there a bit, but never seemed that strident or radical.

[GGGG]

Did anyone else have Snow for any classes at MU?

I'm pretty sure I had her in the late 80's/early 90's and she was hippie-ish and out there a bit, but never seemed that strident or radical.

I had her for Theory of Ethics her first semester on campus.  (Fall of 88 or 89).  My recollection is the same as yours.  Good, not great, professor.

[rocket surgeon]

Except for the fact that they both hand out grades on behalf of the University... a grad instructor is closer to a professor in this scenario than a student.

well put.  and those grades carry a lot of weight. read GPA.  could become the difference in a STUDENT's future-grad school, doctors, lawyers, post grad schools accepted into, how much money one could make

[keefe]

One of the things that struck me was how little McAdams is (was?) paid by Marquette. I think it was appox $77,000. This for a Harvard grad working for the same employer for almost half a century. Good Lord.

[rocket surgeon]

One of the things that struck me was how little McAdams is (was?) paid by Marquette. I think it was appox $77,000. This for a Harvard grad working for the same employer for almost half a century. Good Lord.

yeah, i saw that too...well no worrie$ now.  his hard work and sticking to his guns is finally going to pay off, but not the way he intended i'm sure

[warriorchick]

yeah, i saw that too...well no worrie$ now.  his hard work and sticking to his guns is finally going to pay off, but not the way he intended i'm sure

Supply and demand, my friend. There are hundreds and hundreds of underemployed History PhDs that would love to take his place.

Also,  keep in mind that is for probably 6-9  hours per week of classroom time, with the summer off.  And it's guaranteed lifetime employment unless you screw up really bad.

[GGGG]

My guess at $77,000 that he is one of the higher paid humanities professors at Marquette.  And he probably would be one of the lowest paid in the College of Engineering or College of Business.

EDIT:  Just looked at the salary database where I work.  Not a single tenured professor in the Arts & Sciences makes a six figure salary unless they have some administrative responsibilities.  Every tenured professor in Business makes six figures with the exception of the Department of Economics. 

If he teaches during the summer he gets an extra stipend for that as well.

[Coleman]

One of the things that struck me was how little McAdams is (was?) paid by Marquette. I think it was appox $77,000. This for a Harvard grad working for the same employer for almost half a century. Good Lord.

Seems about right to me for tenured academia in the humanities.

Chick already mentioned the work schedule. Tenured profs do get really awesome benefits (free tuition for immediate family, use of all campus facilities, etc), Cadillac health care plans and a pension. But you aren't going to get rich in academia.

Keep in mind most people with tenure have published a few books along the way. McAdams has published two. I'm sure he's made something there. And the university gives you year-long paid sabbaticals to research and write pretty regularly.

You are also free to consult or do any other sort of side gig with all of the time and flexibility you have. For example, my dad was a professor of psychology at a UW school and did clinical work in his own practice for 20 hours a week. The university had no problem with this, and in fact encouraged it because it kept him sharp and current in the field.

One little clarification though...

Untenured employment is basically slave labor. To earn tenure, you generally have to put in 60+ hours a week at the university between teaching, grading and advising (course load is much heavier for untenured professors) for 4-6 years (on the low end, perhaps over a decade on the high end). You get paid a pittance (literally $30k-$40k a year) in the hopes that some day your hard work will pay off so you can get the flexibility, benefits, and security, if not amazing pay, of tenure.

In my opinion, it is an unsustrightble system that exploits those without tenure for the benefit of the few who have it.

[warriorchick]

My guess at $77,000 that he is one of the higher paid humanities professors at Marquette.  And he probably would be one of the lowest paid in the College of Engineering or College of Business.

If he teaches during the summer he gets an extra stipend for that as well.

Yep.  Universities have the upper hand when it comes to humanities professors because their alternate employment options are limited.  Even math and science PhDs can get jobs with companies who need the expertise in their given field.  Their are very few products developed these days that require advanced knowledge of Renaissance Art or British Literature.

Humanities PhDs can usually make more money teaching at the secondary school level if they get a teaching certificate.  One could say that those who choose to teach at the university level are getting paid with prestige and the freedom to do research.

[warriorchick]

Untenured employment is basically slave labor. To earn tenure, you generally have to put in 60+ a week at the university between teaching, grading and advising (course load is much heavier for untenured professors) for 4-6 years (on the low end, perhaps over a decade on the high end). You get paid a pittance (literally $30k-$40k a year) in the hopes that some day your hard work will pay off so you can get the flexibility, benefits, and security, if not amazing pay, of tenure.

In my opinion, it is an unsustrightble system that exploits those without tenure for the benefit of the few who have it.

It's not slave labor if they are taking these jobs voluntarily and can leave whenever they want.  No one is holding a gun to the heads of these people and forcing them to do the work.  They knew the way this works.

Now, if they want to organize, more power to them.  That is what is happening at the University of Illinois right now. 

[Coleman]

It's not slave labor if they are taking these jobs voluntarily and can leave whenever they want.  No one is holding a gun to the heads of these people and forcing them to do the work.  They knew the way this works.

Now, if they want to organize, more power to them.  That is what is happening at the University of Illinois right now.

It is when you are sold of a bill goods about putting in your time to earn tenure and that never materializes.

Tenured prof gets paid $80k to teach 2 classes a semester. Is literally on campus 20 hours a week, with summers off and sabbaticals every handful of years. Is writing books in his spare time.

Untenured prof gets paid $30k to teach 5 classes a semester. Is on campus 60 hours a week. Is probably painting houses during the summer to make enough to feed his family.

Tenured prof has no incentive to ever retire. Can work this schedule until the day he dies.

How is this system sustrightble? How is it equitable?

Its not. But Boomers would rather suck the rapidly shrinking teat forever, no matter the consequences to future generations.

BTW this is NOT how it used to work. The exploitation of untenured staff is a relatively recent phenomenon, within the last 20 years. 35 years ago, my dad was hired right out of his PhD program on a tenure-track position and earned tenure after 3 years of putting in his time. That was standard at the time. He was in a secure position by the time he was 32. He could live a normal life and raise a family. This hardly ever happens anymore.

The entire model needs to be reevaluated.

One area where I do agree with you is that there are far too many humanities PhDs. Unfortunately, this is because lower-tier graduate programs view this as a revenue generator....5-6 years of tuition...that's huge. Only the top schools provide funding. Unfortunately, no one is telling these idealistic PhD students that if you weren't able to get full funding, you probably have no business being in a graduate program. These are the ones who wind up in 6 figure debt and can't get a real job. Universities need to admit significantly fewer students to PhD programs, especially if they are not providing funding. Unfortunately, there is no reason or incentive to do so. It is the same issue encountered at lower-tier law schools.

[warriorchick]

It is when you are sold of a bill goods about putting in your time to earn tenure and that never materializes.

Doesn't that happen in nearly every job? The hiring manager emphasizing the potential upside?  If the practice of "being sold a bill of goods" is as common as you claim, why wouldn't anyone who took the job already be aware of it? 

I think the issue is that they all think they will be the one that will get that tenured position, just like all the people who move to L.A. believing they will beat the odds and become a movie star.

[Coleman]

Doesn't that happen in nearly every job? The hiring manager emphasizing the potential upside?  If the practice of "being sold a bill of goods" is as common as you claim, why wouldn't anyone who took the job already be aware of it? 

I think the issue is that they all think they will be the one that will get that tenured position, just like all the people who move to L.A. believing they will beat the odds and become a movie star.

The difference is people are being lied to about their odds of actually achieving it.

It would be like if a college basketball coach told a walk on he has a chance of securing a scholarship if he walks on for one year, knowing full well that will never happen.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is there a go fund me legal war chest being built up for McAdams?  I'll happily transition my Marquette donations to that cause.

[warriorchick]

The difference is people are being lied to about their odds of actually achieving it.

It would be like if a college basketball coach told a walk on he has a chance of securing a scholarship if he walks on for one year, knowing full well that will never happen.

Again, happens all the time in the business world.  Nothing special about academia.  It doesn't make it "slave labor."  You can leave at any time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The difference is people are being lied to about their odds of actually achieving it.

It would be like if a college basketball coach told a walk on he has a chance of securing a scholarship if he walks on for one year, knowing full well that will never happen.

I don't understand your example.  There are preferred walk-ons that get that exact speech and they do get a scholarship for their final year.  It happens, and happens quite frequently.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Supply and demand, my friend. There are hundreds and hundreds of underemployed History PhDs that would love to take his place.

Also,  keep in mind that is for probably 6-9  hours per week of classroom time, with the summer off.  And it's guaranteed lifetime employment unless you screw up really bad.

The war on teachers.....

[ChicosBailBonds]

Doesn't that happen in nearly every job? The hiring manager emphasizing the potential upside?  If the practice of "being sold a bill of goods" is as common as you claim, why wouldn't anyone who took the job already be aware of it? 

I think the issue is that they all think they will be the one that will get that tenured position, just like all the people who move to L.A. believing they will beat the odds and become a movie star.

+1

Jobs are about potential and reaching potential, but nothing is every guaranteed.  Markets change, businesses change, bosses change, strategies change, etc. 

[MUfan12]

Is there a go fund me legal war chest being built up for McAdams?  I'll happily transition my Marquette donations to that cause.

Here's the group handling his case- http://www.will-law.org/donate/