Starting Lineup 2016/2017

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

There is no way Howard is only playing 5 minutes a game.

Next year will be a highly competitive situation for the guards.

The thing I like however is that we start to ease our way through the experience gap next year.  We will have two sr guards and one SF (today) that will forfeit mins at the end of the year - plus Luke graduating. 

So if the underclassman are superior -- they will start.  If they lose out to experience -- they likely develop and earn those mins one year out. 

Finally a situation where folks may fight to get on the floor versus looking to fill the mins.

[Herman Cain]

The only way the minutes work is if Sandy and Wally leave.  Otherwise we are looking at another Deonte Burton scenario.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No chance in hell Cheatham averages less than 25 MPG. These are way off IMO.

I'm sure it is, that's why its a way too early prediction. But I think getting bogged down in the "this player will have to get at least this many minutes" is the wrong way to think about it. Players playing less minutes isn't necessarily a bad thing. The longer a player goes, the less efficient he tends to get. Having a long bench allows Wojo to run a very fast paced, physical, attacking defense and high octane offense. That requires a lot of substitutions and a lot of fouls.

We don't have a set of truly great players at the top of our rotation. But we have 13 scholarship players, all of whom could play if called upon. Our strength is depth. Best strategy would seem to be using players for shorter more high energy efficient stretches IMHO.

[Herman Cain]

I'm sure it is, that's why its a way too early prediction. But I think getting bogged down in the "this player will have to get at least this many minutes" is the wrong way to think about it. Players playing less minutes isn't necessarily a bad thing. The longer a player goes, the less efficient he tends to get. Having a long bench allows Wojo to run a very fast paced, physical, attacking defense and high octane offense. That requires a lot of substitutions and a lot of fouls.

We don't have a set of truly great players at the top of our rotation. But we have 13 scholarship players, all of whom could play if called upon. Our strength is depth. Best strategy would seem to be using players for shorter more high energy efficient stretches IMHO.

Players need to be in the flow of the game. this is basketball not Hockey. Taking them in and out works against that. Having 13 scholarship players is a good thing. I think an 8 man rotation is much better for this team than a 10 man. 

[jsglow]

I also think we're doing an 8-9 man rotation. This isn't a democracy. While I believe Luke, JjJ, Hani and Reinhardt are 'locks', everyone else has to earn their way IN in the Kasten gym. Time will tell.

[HoopsterBC]

Players need to be in the flow of the game. this is basketball not Hockey. Taking them in and out works against that. Having 13 scholarship players is a good thing. I think an 8 man rotation is much better for this team than a 10 man.

To many games last year when the guards particularly Duane could not hit the side of the barn.   Duane misses his first couple, he might not get off the bench then.  MU
should be more like Villy on  the three point shot,  Hauser, Reinhardt, Rowsey, Howard and Cheatham all can shoot the three.  Last year, when Duane was awful MU
was awful, as Henry was bad, Carter, below average except one game, and Cohen in the Big East, forget about it, plain awful.  Those 5 might be the best shooters on one team at MU in years.  With those recruits, MU will play an open offense like Duke plays so Carter might be the key.  Drive and Dish.

[MU82]

I also think we're doing an 8-9 man rotation. This isn't a democracy. While I believe Luke, JjJ, Hani and Reinhardt are 'locks', everyone else has to earn their way IN in the Kasten gym. Time will tell.

I agree with this.

Coaches don't use 13-man rotations. By conference time, Wojo will settle into 7-9 guys. And come nut-cutting time in games, he'll have 5-7 guys he'll feel he can trust.

I do agree with others who say that, in the long run, the depth should help the likes of JJJ, Haanif and Duane, who often were gassed in games when we needed them most.

As for Duane, I'm not sure what to think. I understand the views of those who say he has the most to lose with all these newbies, and it was frustrating to watch him at times last season. Still, he was the guy who stepped up in the clutch in several games. He has "onions," as Raftery says. And he will be a third-year player who will be in his fourth year around the team. It's hard to replace that kind of experience -- not just in age and years but in a guy who has been willing to take big shots and sometimes able to make them.

[MUHoopsFan2]

Players need to be in the flow of the game. this is basketball not Hockey. Taking them in and out works against that. Having 13 scholarship players is a good thing. I think an 8 man rotation is much better for this team than a 10 man. 

No its not...they need to go 9 or 10 deep at least...He should sub out 3 or 4  guys at a time and rotate them.

Use wholesale substitutions....defenders and then shooters and 3/4 court press defenders.

A 10 man rotation like Villanova has. Find the guys who mesh...and play them with each other. Much of the missed shots late in games we due to tired legs.

The depth will keep them fresh. And I agree. Carter is the key to the 'engine.'

[MUHoopsFan2]

I'm sure it is, that's why its a way too early prediction. But I think getting bogged down in the "this player will have to get at least this many minutes" is the wrong way to think about it. Players playing less minutes isn't necessarily a bad thing. The longer a player goes, the less efficient he tends to get. Having a long bench allows Wojo to run a very fast paced, physical, attacking defense and high octane offense. That requires a lot of substitutions and a lot of fouls.

We don't have a set of truly great players at the top of our rotation. But we have 13 scholarship players, all of whom could play if called upon. Our strength is depth. Best strategy would seem to be using players for shorter more high energy efficient stretches IMHO.

EXCELLENT POST. I CONCUR....100%

[MUHoopsFan2]

At PG I think it breaks down in conference play as: TC - 20, Rowsey - 15, Howard - 5

At C I think it breaks down in conference play as: 30 - Fischer, 10 - Hedlt

The other 3 positions are a jumble of 120 minutes: Haanif - 30, Duane - 20, JjJ - 20, Rowsey - 5, Sandy - 10, Hauser - 10, Reinhart - 25

Where is Sacar Anim in here? Is he gone? I like the kid's game and he is a proven winner.

Curious...

[WarriorFan]

Given that the majority of the team will be "switchables", I see the minutes from a little different perspective.

Major Minutes - 22-30
Luke
JJJ
Hanif
Reinhardt

Contributors - 15-22 mins
TC
Duane
Heldt (at the bottom of this range but will get more when Luke has foul trouble)
Rowsey

Role Players - 3-5 mins depending on opponent and situation and how many fouls the bigs get
Hauser
Howard
Sacar
Wally
Sandy

In conference games and other difficult games the team will be 8 deep (barring injury) and the last 5 will struggle to get PT at all. 
Realistically, Howard should red-shirt.  Not many 17 year olds are ready for the big east.

I also think the starting 5 will be different...
Luke
Cheatham
TC
Reinhardt
Duane/Rowsey based on whoever's hot because both of these guys can be streaky.
6th man / instant offense:  JJJ

[brewcity77]

As long as he's here, I'm not ready to write Sandy off. On this team, right now, he is the only guy who has played significant minutes that has any prayer of contributing at the 4. Wally is a great energy guy, but Sandy is our best returning rebounder. If he can put another 15-20 pounds on, he'll at least stand a chance of defending guys down low and he's already a decent man defender. I know he's not a perfect player, but I see a lot of people wanting us to find our Trevon Blueitt/Kris Jenkins type of player, and like it or not, Sandy Cohen is the closest thing on our roster to that type of player.

Last year, people were ready to write him off and he increased his minutes, offensive efficiency, eFG%, 3PFG%, rebounding, and became a much, much better defender. He may not be the frontline star guys want, but I still think he has a place as a junior and senior to play a role like Juan should have played as a senior, contributing rebounding, defense, and some threes off the bench and as a spot starter.

Frankly, looking at this team right now, any starting lineup that doesn't include Sandy is downright terrifying from a rebounding perspective. If we're counting on JJ, Haney, and Reinhardt to go down low and fight for boards, that's a bit unnerving. Barring another grad transfer or immediately eligible player, Sandy has a hugely critical role on next year's team.

[PGsHeroes32]

Given that the majority of the team will be "switchables", I see the minutes from a little different perspective.

Major Minutes - 22-30
Luke
JJJ
Hanif
Reinhardt

Contributors - 15-22 mins
TC
Duane
Heldt (at the bottom of this range but will get more when Luke has foul trouble)
Rowsey

Role Players - 3-5 mins depending on opponent and situation and how many fouls the bigs get
Hauser
Howard
Sacar
Wally
Sandy

In conference games and other difficult games the team will be 8 deep (barring injury) and the last 5 will struggle to get PT at all. 
Realistically, Howard should red-shirt.  Not many 17 year olds are ready for the big east.

I also think the starting 5 will be different...
Luke
Cheatham
TC
Reinhardt
Duane/Rowsey based on whoever's hot because both of these guys can be streaky.
6th man / instant offense:  JJJ

Howard didn't reclassify to get 5 minutes or redshirt.

It just isn't happening

[mu03eng]

There is no way Howard is only playing 5 minutes a game.

Don't under estimate how unprepared freshmen point guards are. Traci Carter only got minutes because we didn't have better options. There are at least 2 better options in front of Howard next year (which he knew about when choosing to come here) so unless he really impresses, I think his minutes will be limited in conference play.

[mu03eng]

Players need to be in the flow of the game. this is basketball not Hockey. Taking them in and out works against that. Having 13 scholarship players is a good thing. I think an 8 man rotation is much better for this team than a 10 man.

I remember Ners making this argument back in the day.....ARE YOU NERS?!??!? Did you play high school basketball and dunk on someone once??? ANSWER ME!!!!

[mu03eng]

Not sure why it is, but there is always a tendency to undervalue experience and to always assume the new player coming in will be better than the player currently on the roster. Given the balance of talent and experience on the roster, I'm inclined to believe that the players with D1 experience, especially at MU are going to get more minutes than new players.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not sure why it is, but there is always a tendency to undervalue experience and to always assume the new player coming in will be better than the player currently on the roster. Given the balance of talent and experience on the roster, I'm inclined to believe that the players with D1 experience, especially at MU are going to get more minutes than new players.

I agree, but Howard is too good not to get some minutes. I don't think he's a starter from day 1, but I do think he is immediately in the rotation and may earn starter's minutes depending on his performance. He could also lose minutes depending on performance. But if I were a betting man I'd say it was more likely that he becomes a starter than he falls out of the rotation

[mu03eng]

I agree, but Howard is too good not to get some minutes. I don't think he's a starter from day 1, but I do think he is immediately in the rotation and may earn starter's minutes depending on his performance. He could also lose minutes depending on performance. But if I were a betting man I'd say it was more likely that he becomes a starter than he falls out of the rotation

Certainly very possible, and I reserve the right to adjust my projections once I see these guys practice and at madness. I also think, depending on the game, the non-con will be the wild west of minutes as Wojo tries to figure out what he has. However, it's happened time and time again that we get all worked up about the new guy and the new guy doesn't live up to "expectations" until year 2 or 3.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Not sure why it is, but there is always a tendency to undervalue experience and to always assume the new player coming in will be better than the player currently on the roster. Given the balance of talent and experience on the roster, I'm inclined to believe that the players with D1 experience, especially at MU are going to get more minutes than new players.

After last year I will never under value experience again. 

[HoopsterBC]

After last year I will never under value experience again.

I agree, Reinhardt, Fisher, JJJ, Rowsey, and Duane are all 21 or 22 of age next year, look at them as your go to players to start the year.  Experinece matters and those
guys will get first shot.   Carter and Howard will battle at the point, Hauser and hopefully Kalif Young will battle at the 4, the rest will be resolved by the chemistry of
the older players.

[HoopsterBC]

Bottom line is that you can not turn the ball over 17-18 times a game and win.    That alone will make them a better team!  Less turnovers, more shots.

[Lennys Tap]

Not sure why it is, but there is always a tendency to undervalue experience and to always assume the new player coming in will be better than the player currently on the roster. Given the balance of talent and experience on the roster, I'm inclined to believe that the players with D1 experience, especially at MU are going to get more minutes than new players.

Elementary. We know the weaknesses of the returning players. The new guys haven't missed a shot or turned it over yet. Midway through the season we'll be salivating over the 2017 recruits.

[mu03eng]

I agree, Reinhardt, Fisher, JJJ, Rowsey, and Duane are all 21 or 22 of age next year, look at them as your go to players to start the year.  Experinece matters and those
guys will get first shot.   Carter and Howard will battle at the point, Hauser and hopefully Kalif Young will battle at the 4, the rest will be resolved by the chemistry of
the older players.

Not sure if you meant to, but Haanif is going to be one of, if not the primary, go to players. He's got a year of experience and as much, if not more talent, then the rest of the go to list.

I think the core players next season will be Reinhardt, Fischer, JjJ, Rowsey, Duane, and Haanif....with everyone else facilitating the core based on how well they are playing that day. This assumes Duane returns to his potential. This past season was pretty bad for him, if he figures his game out, he could be really good....if not his minutes go to Haanif, JjJ, and Reinhardt

[NotAnAlum]

Bottom line is that you can not turn the ball over 17-18 times a game and win.    That alone will make them a better team!  Less turnovers, more shots.

Except that every rebound you don't get that you did last year is like a turnover because you don't get possession that you did last year.  In fact you could probably argue that its worse to give up offensive rebounds because the likelihood of the other team scoring is much higher than off a typical play because the defense isn't set.  That said you don't have to be tall to rebound well.  It will be on the coaching staff to teach good fundamentals like boxing out and team rebounding and the guys will have to use the quickness advantage a small player should have and simply the desire to get the ball.  Hope someone on Wojo's staff knows how to teach that.

[The Lens]

It's way too early for this exercise.  There are still 2-3 moves coming.