New Warrior Katin Reinhardt

[Warrior_2002]

Everyone here is talking about this fight over playing time that is coming down the pike.  I get that is the mentality of today's players, but we don't exactly have a bunch of guys that are going pro after Henry.  I'm pretty sure the culture is being shifted to a team who's mentality is more in line with the team game.  That's Duke style and Wojo style.  I'm excited that we will have a deep team that can rotate in the hot hands.  There is a shift in our culture happening.  Get excited for the change.  It's going to be great!

[GGGG]

Big Daddy isn't perfect.  But he's good and his insights are appreciated. 

[ecompt]

I think Sandy is likely an outstanding young man, teammate and student. I do think he can have success at Division I basketball. I doubt whether it is in the Big East.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I shy away from talking about our student athletes but I think there are some cases we need to be honest about.

Anyone expecting high major production from Cohen is not seeing things correctly.

PepsiCo is an aggressive company that has a commitment to the Street on earnings growth. It recruits from the very best schools, poaches the best talent, and pays in the top 2% because it demands exceptional performance. Pepsi has a saying - figure out immediately if you can be successful here. It's not cruel. It's honest.

It depends on your definition of high major production. Do I ever expect him to be a star at Marquette? No. Could he evolve into a Trent Lockett glue guy type at Marquette? I think its very possible. Cohen already plays defense at a high major level. His offensive game is currently limited. I'm not sure he'll ever develop the driving skills or mid range game but his outside shooting could be at a high major level. His release is a little slow and I think he gets mentally blocked. Those are things that can be fixed.

[BM1090]

And he has gotten over 10,000 views on the recruiting thread he started just a couple days ago, but that is likely because he is getting the benefit of using nearly the same title as threads started by Glow.

Did he provide a link to Glow's thread?

[rocket surgeon]

  "I'm sure a semi-tanked teen coming from Prom,"


  wait...how many years has this little dude been in high school?  gotta love the open bar at proms though-heyn'a?

  good to know-i mean the "young adult's" comments re: katin

[amen426]

I shy away from talking about our student athletes but I think there are some cases we need to be honest about.

Anyone expecting high major production from Cohen is not seeing things correctly.

PepsiCo is an aggressive company that has a commitment to the Street on earnings growth. It recruits from the very best schools, poaches the best talent, and pays in the top 2% because it demands exceptional performance. Pepsi has a saying - figure out immediately if you can be successful here. It's not cruel. It's honest.

First off, we're not Pepsi. If we could fill our 13 man roster with the top 2% of all D1 Basketball players - we wouldn't have missed the tournament three straight years.

Nothing in his two years has given any indication that he doesn't belong here.

People need to quit viewing every recruit as a Star or Bust. We need role players. Sandy's role on this team should be two-fold. Sit in the corner on offense and knock down corner threes. Exert 100% of your energy on being a nuisance on the defensive end. Be our Bruce Bowen. Know your limitations. Do the grunt work for our team, so that our more "skilled" players can be more effective at their jobs.

Sandy will put in the work, and he'll get his confidence back. He's got a good stroke.

Jake Thomas shot 28% from 3 his first year at Marquette. Shooting is all about confidence. Sandy has a nice stroke -- he's just not a shot creator. Limit your scope and develop 1 skill, and do it better than anyone.

If he's willing to do the dirty work, and accept the fact that he is not going to ever be "the guy" - then he could have a really nice final 2 years here.

[GGGG]

I agree with your overall assessment, but Sandy's stroke is slow with a low release point. 

[keefe]

First off, we're not Pepsi. If we could fill our 13 man roster with the top 2% of all D1 Basketball players - we wouldn't have missed the tournament three straight years.

Nothing in his two years has given any indication that he doesn't belong here.

People need to quit viewing every recruit as a Star or Bust. We need role players. Sandy's role on this team should be two-fold. Sit in the corner on offense and knock down corner threes. Exert 100% of your energy on being a nuisance on the defensive end. Be our Bruce Bowen. Know your limitations. Do the grunt work for our team, so that our more "skilled" players can be more effective at their jobs.

Sandy will put in the work, and he'll get his confidence back. He's got a good stroke.

Jake Thomas shot 28% from 3 his first year at Marquette. Shooting is all about confidence. Sandy has a nice stroke -- he's just not a shot creator. Limit your scope and develop 1 skill, and do it better than anyone.

If he's willing to do the dirty work, and accept the fact that he is not going to ever be "the guy" - then he could have a really nice final 2 years here.

I am not that smart when it comes to basketball but there are times Cohen is completely lost out there on both ends of the court. That might be confidence but I would argue it is far worse than that.

Probably a nice kid but the Big East game is bigger, faster, stronger, and more precise than he has shown the ability to perform at.

Basketball is like golf in that it is a game of consistency but requires the additional dimension of flow dynamics and applied integration. Cohen is too often a liability.

If we are to be competitive we need a team that can perform at a level commensurate with the opposition. We make our money in conference and, as we saw last season, not in buy games against the Gramblings of the world.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Always room for a traditional with ink, ai na?

He's from Dana Point....can't get more traditional (in the terminology you are using) than that.

Beautiful part of the OC.

[wildbillsb]

I am not that smart when it comes to basketball but there are times Cohen is completely lost out there on both ends of the court. That might be confidence but I would argue it is far worse than that.

Probably a nice kid but the Big East game is bigger, faster, stronger, and more precise than he has shown the ability to perform at.

Basketball is like golf in that it is a game of consistency but requires the additional dimension of flow dynamics and applied integration. Cohen is too often a liability.

If we are to be competitive we need a team that can perform at a level commensurate with the opposition. We make our money in conference and, as we saw last season, not in buy games against the Gramblings of the world.

Speaking of a "slow release," Keefe, what did you think of the reluctant actions by the two young Yank "pilots" in EYE IN THE SKY?  I wasn't sure they were up to pulling the trigger.

[keefe]

....can't get more traditional (in the terminology you are using) than that.

Jams

C'mon, man. Are you still maintaining that fiction?? I think you knew exactly what you meant when you introduced that word into the Scoop lexicon.

[keefe]

Speaking of a "slow release," Keefe, what did you think of the reluctant actions by the two young Yank "pilots" in EYE IN THE SKY?  I wasn't sure they were up to pulling the trigger.

Haven't seen it yet wild but will do so this week and revert back with a debrief. Work has gotten in the way of things.

[Jay Bee]

If JJJ leaves I will be deeply saddened. Katin's improvement last year was from 2-point land. Need to analyze further -- anyone understand why he was so much stronger in the area of 2FG%?

PS - 6'6" sounds good, but dude is allergic to rebounds.

[keefe]

dude is allergic to rebounds.

He'll fit right in, then!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Jams

C'mon, man. Are you still maintaining that fiction?? I think you knew exactly what you meant when you introduced that word into the Scoop lexicon.

Go back and read what I said....nothing of the kind.  No fiction.  Kind of hard to include Wes Matthews in my description of a traditional....and then have it turned into something else.   So you're right, I knew exactly what I was saying...a basketball player, not an athlete first.  A guy that can pass, shoot, play defense, make free throws, high basketball IQ.  Fundamentally sound.....all the things I said back in the day.

Nov 14, 2010.  That's the day it was born.  Read the thread.   

A lot of people jumped on the racial angle, when there was NONE.  Here was the initial post I made:

"Well, many posts in and no one really answered it.  I'm guessing it was because he was deemed not athletic enough for Buzz's style of play???  I don't know, that's why I put the question out there. Very intelligent kid, nice ball player, good outside shooter. 

It's obvious Buzz likes athletic players, slashers, etc....I wonder if down the road he will recruit one or two "traditional" basketball players that are more of your spot up and shoot type players...like Gasser."

Because I used Gasser, it became racial nonsense, but I clearly stated traditional basketball player, not athlete first.  So then, THAT VERY DAY, I took it a step further listed a bunch of players (black, white, Asian, whatever) that fit what I defined as traditional basketball player.   It took on a life of its own, but I never made a racial statement there and responded directly to the ridiculousness of the charges throughout the thread.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=22194.msg242718#msg242718

[WarriorPride68]

PS - 6'6" sounds good, but dude is allergic to rebounds.

You weren't kidding, 2 reb average each year. Career single game high of 6 rebounds (28 min per game avg, 6'6, 215)

Andrew Rowsey at 5'10 has career avg of 3.2 rebounds per, Katin at 2.4.

[keefe]

Go back and read what I said....nothing of the kind.  No fiction.  Kind of hard to include Wes Matthews in my description of a traditional....and then have it turned into something else.   So you're right, I knew exactly what I was saying...a basketball player, not an athlete first.  A guy that can pass, shoot, play defense, make free throws, high basketball IQ.  Fundamentally sound.....all the things I said back in the day.

Make no mistake - I value your participation here. I might not always agree with you, Sultan, Chick, x, forgetful, 82, etc but I damned sure respect what you guys and gal add to the Scoop narrative.

Hell, if we all agreed on everything there would be nothing to post about.

The only guy I don't like is Navy because, well, he's a Rhino puke. 'Nuff said I should think.

[Loose Cannon]

You weren't kidding, 2 reb average each year. Career single game high of 6 rebounds (28 min per game avg, 6'6, 215)

Andrew Rowsey at 5'10 has career avg of 3.2 rebounds per, Katin at 2.4.

Is this another Clue that a spot is opening for a big?

[Jay Bee]

You weren't kidding, 2 reb average each year. Career single game high of 6 rebounds (28 min per game avg, 6'6, 215)

Andrew Rowsey at 5'10 has career avg of 3.2 rebounds per, Katin at 2.4.

Or put another way.. they are fairly comparable... would think Katin may be a little more interested in the OR% for the scoring opp.

... Rowsey's OR% & DR% as a FR & Soph: 1.2% & 9.7% FR; 1.5% & 7.2% So.

Katin's 3 seasons.. from oldest to most recent: 1.1% & 6.1%; 2.0% & 7.3%; 2.7% & 8.1%.. improving!

In 2015-16.. for the full season, compared to his 78 PAC-12 peers who played at least 40% of their team's minutes... Katin's DR% of 8.1% put him at #72. Of the 7 behind him, 4 were 6'1" or shorter.. tallest was 6'4".

6-foot true frosh PG Traci Carter.. 9.2% DR%.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Make no mistake - I value your participation here. I might not always agree with you, Sultan, Chick, x, forgetful, 82, etc but I damned sure respect what you guys and gal add to the Scoop narrative.

Hell, if we all agreed on everything there would be nothing to post about.

The only guy I don't like is Navy because, well, he's a Rhino puke. 'Nuff said I should think.

Going back to that thread....whatever happened to Canadian Dimes?  Ners was also in that thread a bunch. 

[GGGG]

Go back and read what I said....nothing of the kind.  No fiction.  Kind of hard to include Wes Matthews in my description of a traditional....and then have it turned into something else.   So you're right, I knew exactly what I was saying...a basketball player, not an athlete first.  A guy that can pass, shoot, play defense, make free throws, high basketball IQ.  Fundamentally sound.....all the things I said back in the day.

Nov 14, 2010.  That's the day it was born.  Read the thread.   

A lot of people jumped on the racial angle, when there was NONE.  Here was the initial post I made:

"Well, many posts in and no one really answered it.  I'm guessing it was because he was deemed not athletic enough for Buzz's style of play???  I don't know, that's why I put the question out there. Very intelligent kid, nice ball player, good outside shooter. 

It's obvious Buzz likes athletic players, slashers, etc....I wonder if down the road he will recruit one or two "traditional" basketball players that are more of your spot up and shoot type players...like Gasser."

Because I used Gasser, it became racial nonsense, but I clearly stated traditional basketball player, not athlete first.  So then, THAT VERY DAY, I took it a step further listed a bunch of players (black, white, Asian, whatever) that fit what I defined as traditional basketball player.   It took on a life of its own, but I never made a racial statement there and responded directly to the ridiculousness of the charges throughout the thread.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=22194.msg242718#msg242718

The problem was your assertion was ridiculous in the first place.  Buzz recruited many guys that were "basketball player, not an athlete first.  that can pass, shoot, play defense, make free throws, high basketball IQ.  Fundamentally sound....."

He did so at the time.  Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, DJO, Davante Gardner...  All basketball players.  All by and large could pass, shoot, play defense, make free throws.  I never noticed a poor basketball IQ by any of them.  Sure they had their moments when they "peed down their leg," but traditional players have those moments as well.

I think people know that you weren't being racial with your post.  Just that your assertion was so absurd that everyone uses it to needle you about it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The problem was your assertion was ridiculous in the first place.  Buzz recruited many guys that were "basketball player, not an athlete first.  that can pass, shoot, play defense, make free throws, high basketball IQ.  Fundamentally sound....."

He did so at the time.  Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, DJO, Davante Gardner...  All basketball players.  All by and large could pass, shoot, play defense, make free throws.  I never noticed a poor basketball IQ by any of them.  Sure they had their moments when they "peed down their leg," but traditional players have those moments as well.

I think people know that you weren't being racial with your post.  Just that your assertion was so absurd that everyone uses it to needle you about it.

Maybe, but at the time we had guys that couldn't shoot, were not great free throw shooters, and Buzz was constantly preaching athletes first.  We were coming off a season in which we were one of the last teams into the dance, were a horrible outside shooting team (around 200th), not a good free throw shooting team...fortunately (to Buzz's credit) we played hard, forced turnovers, great in the assist department. In fact, his quote was that we were beating teams by being more athletic.  In later years, that came back to bite us because we couldn't do simple things like shoot the basketball well.

To each their own.  I'm old school in wanting kids that can do the basketball things well first.  Maybe it's a product of me growing up watching Wooden's teams, going to IU with Knight there, etc.   It doesn't mean I don't value athleticism because of course I do.  It's the pull out the hair part when we can't do the fundamentals well.  I think in that thread I also admitted that it wasn't fair to say those kids weren't basketball players first.

[GGGG]

Maybe, but at the time we had guys that couldn't shoot, were not great free throw shooters, and Buzz was constantly preaching athletes first.  We were coming off a season in which we were one of the last teams into the dance, were a horrible outside shooting team (around 200th), not a good free throw shooting team...fortunately (to Buzz's credit) we played hard, forced turnovers, great in the assist department. In fact, his quote was that we were beating teams by being more athletic.  In later years, that came back to bite us because we couldn't do simple things like shoot the basketball well.

To each their own.  I'm old school in wanting kids that can do the basketball things well first.  Maybe it's a product of me growing up watching Wooden's teams, going to IU with Knight there, etc.   It doesn't mean I don't value athleticism because of course I do.  It's the pull out the hair part when we can't do the fundamentals well.  I think in that thread I also admitted that it wasn't fair to say those kids weren't basketball players first.

At the time you posted it we were just tipping off a season where we ended up making a Sweet 16....followed by another Sweet 16....followed by a BE championship and an Elite 8.

At the time you posted it, Buzz put together a roster that currently has two guys who play significant roles on NBA teams, one of whom would become the BE POY and another that would become an NBA All-Star.  Three others eventually would get time on NBA teams.

Your comments were ridiculous at the time.  They are downright laughable in retrospect. 

[Marcus92]

If Reinhardt was a 13-15 DR% guy, I'd be inclined to agree. But his 8.1 DR% was lowest of all qualifying players on USC last year. That was also his career high. There's plenty to like about the kid, but it would be a major statistical outlier for him to suddenly become even marginally effective on the glass.

Carter, Cheatham, Johnson and Cohen all posted higher DR% than Reinhardt last season. Cohen is the best defensive rebounder by that measure, followed by Johnson.