New Plan: Let's Start Cheating

[GGGG]

Chicos continues to make very good points here.  The NCAA is policing itself.  It isn't the FBI.  They are setting the rules, letting stuff slide and end up being quite toothless when its institutions act poorly.

My biggest problem is when they are nonsensical when it comes to student athletes.  But if they slap their own institutions on the wrist, well at least everyone knows what the consequences are.

[KenoshaWarrior]

They have 5 Tier 1 allegations against them.  That's as bad as it gets.  I know people love to make conspiratorial comments like they are in the NCAA tournament because of the money.  Sounds nice, but it's silly.  The NCAA gets their money from Turner and CBS whether UNC, Duke, etc are in the tournament.   It is guaranteed, ratings have nothing to do with it...those are for the networks. 

Unfortunately, without subpoena power, the NCAA's ability to investigate is always tough, and it takes a long time.  UNC will get hit.

What I don't think will happen, and wish it would.....would be to vacate this championship if they win it.  I don't think anyone has the balls to do that.

Who cares if they get vacated.  USC fans still got memories of their team winning a title game. UNC fans will still get memories of title run. All vacating titles do is it to delay the penalty for as long as it takes anyone who witnessed said title to die.  Effectively you dont get penalized till the year 2100

[GGGG]

Nate wants the NCAA to start incorporating the Men in Black punishment...

[KenoshaWarrior]

Nate wants the NCAA to start incorporating the Men in Black punishment...

Yes. You would need the MIB to make a vacated title hurt.

[Loose Cannon]

There has to be some serious consequences both for UNC and the department that fostered the deception

DepartmenS !!

[ChicosBailBonds]

But you cant take away fan memories. Thats the problem.

You can make them illigitimate.   You're right, you can't erase memories, but you can corrupt them and make them meaningless. 


Remember when Michigan had to do this?  Off to the archives it went.




People that watched Sosa and McGwire hit all those home runs.....know it was tainted.  Sure, it happened, but it was corrupted and tainted, and that diminishes the memories considerably.


Nate, if you are advocating for MU to do some of the crap that some of these schools have done, then it would be best for your health to find a different team to choose for.  I mean that as a fellow human being to another one who is concerned for your health and well being.  You will end up smashing your head against the wall because it isn't going to happen here.

[MerrittsMustache]

You can make them illigitimate.   You're right, you can't erase memories, but you can corrupt them and make them meaningless. 

You're trying to tell me that if MU had to vacate their 2003 Final Four appearance that your memories - and all MU fans' memories - of that run would become "meaningless?" Not a chance.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You're trying to tell me that if MU had to vacate their 2003 Final Four appearance that your memories - and all MU fans' memories - of that run would become "meaningless?" Not a chance.

Meaningless is a strong word. But it would definitely cheapen the memory. I wouldn't be as proud.

[KenoshaWarrior]

You're trying to tell me that if MU had to vacate their 2003 Final Four appearance that your memories - and all MU fans' memories - of that run would become "meaningless?" Not a chance.

they made a 30 for 30 about Michigan which completely legitimized them

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

  they made a 30 for 30 about Michigan which completely legitimized them

Most 30 for 30s are complete crap. They are made up BS that attempt to make situations look better than they actually were. Didn't change my opinion of that Michigan team one bit.

[burger]

That's great.....

Bring on the strippers.......

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're trying to tell me that if MU had to vacate their 2003 Final Four appearance that your memories - and all MU fans' memories - of that run would become "meaningless?" Not a chance.

I'm telling you it would taint them considerably. Knowing we used an ineligible player, or seeing the record books with the word "vacant", having the NCAA require us to take down a Final Four banner (which they would)....yeah, that would suck.  We all know it happened, and we would all know we were caught cheating and become, essentially, meaningless.

Let's hope we never have to do that.  I'd prefer the Uncle Ed Martin scenarios stay away from MU, or the Chris Mills Emory envelopes, etc, etc

[ChicosBailBonds]

  they made a 30 for 30 about Michigan which completely legitimized them

They're doing one about Ryan Leaf, too.......uhm, so....does that legitimize him?   They did one on the fall of Troy for USC, and it was pretty damning. 

The one on Michigan, what exactly did it legitimize?   They cheated, were bought to assemble a team, and despite all that cheating they couldn't win it all.   What a wonderful story.

[rocket surgeon]

   "UNC is going to get nailed.  They are in the final throngs before that comes down."

the NCeyey went into the 4-corner stall when the "higher ups" tapped them on the shoulder-pssst-ya know the heels are loaded this year HEYN'a?  they don't have a shot clock

[jesmu84]

I'm telling you it would taint them considerably. Knowing we used an ineligible player, or seeing the record books with the word "vacant", having the NCAA require us to take down a Final Four banner (which they would)....yeah, that would suck.  We all know it happened, and we would all know we were caught cheating and become, essentially, meaningless.

Let's hope we never have to do that.  I'd prefer the Uncle Ed Martin scenarios stay away from MU, or the Chris Mills Emory envelopes, etc, etc

My problem is that it rarely hurts those who were associated with cheating. Is Pete Carroll suffering? What about Reggie Bush? Jim Boeheim? Etc, etc. I understand there's only so much you can do, especially for transgressions in the past, but it just seems a failure of the culture. And, a lack of "bite" in the punishments as they aren't harsh enough to really prevent people/programs from committing the acts in the first place.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My problem is that it rarely hurts those who were associated with cheating. Is Pete Carroll suffering? What about Reggie Bush? Jim Boeheim? Etc, etc. I understand there's only so much you can do, especially for transgressions in the past, but it just seems a failure of the culture. And, a lack of "bite" in the punishments as they aren't harsh enough to really prevent people/programs from committing the acts in the first place.

It is supposed to be a deterrent as much as anything.  Basically a kick to the nuts of the fans and the boosters in particular that such actions will mean the program takes a step backwards.   Do it again, and a bigger kick to the nuts will happen.

Was Reggie Bush harmed....yes, IMO.  Pete Carroll?  Less so, for sure.   Jim Boeheim, well it depends on one's reputation I suppose.  If you heard his interview this morning, he's not thrilled that his reputation has taken a bunch of shots the last few years....how material is that?  Only that individual can answer that.

[Dawson Rental]

You're trying to tell me that if MU had to vacate their 2003 Final Four appearance that your memories - and all MU fans' memories - of that run would become "meaningless?" Not a chance.

I was in New Orleans four the 2003 Final Four.  Bring on the MIB punishment, please!

But leave that Kentucky win memory intact!!!

[Dawson Rental]

Nate, if you are advocating for MU to do some of the crap that some of these schools have done, then it would be best for your health to find a different team to choose for.  I mean that as a fellow human being to another one who is concerned for your health and well being.  You will end up smashing your head against the wall because it isn't going to happen here.

I think that its Brewcity77 that doing the advocating.  Although I believe it's tongue in cheek.

[MU82]

It is supposed to be a deterrent as much as anything.  Basically a kick to the nuts of the fans and the boosters in particular that such actions will mean the program takes a step backwards.   Do it again, and a bigger kick to the nuts will happen.

Was Reggie Bush harmed....yes, IMO.  Pete Carroll?  Less so, for sure.   Jim Boeheim, well it depends on one's reputation I suppose.  If you heard his interview this morning, he's not thrilled that his reputation has taken a bunch of shots the last few years....how material is that?  Only that individual can answer that.

Bush has been paid somewhere between $60 million and $70 million as a pro football player.

I would like to be similarly harmed.

[Benny B]

You're trying to tell me that if MU had to vacate their 2003 Final Four appearance that your memories - and all MU fans' memories - of that run would become "meaningless?" Not a chance.

Imagine if you had sat next to Bill Cosby on an airplane fifteen years ago.  For many people, that would be a proud memory to have had such an intimate brush with celebrity (no pun intended) and a great story to tell your children, friends and strangers for decades to come, right? 

Well, if anyone is still telling that story today, it's certainly not for reasons of pride or posterity.

[auburnmarquette]

UConn gets a postseason ban, then wins the title. Syracuse self bans four years of violations, then the NCAA rewards them (literally) by ignoring their worst losses to give them an undeserved bid and Final Four. Figure Louisville and SMU are virtual locks to meet in the Championship game next year.

So how about it, Wojo? Pay players, hire hookers, fake classes, and make sure we get busted for it. We'll be back to the Final Four in no time!

Just recruit a couple of JUCOS. Look at Iowa State coming out of nowhere recently and our three Sweet 16 teams.

[vogue65]

The Big East will become Ivy lite or Ivy heavy and totally unlike the SEC/ACC and their ilk. MU is not an NBA minor league like most "blue bloods".   Al should have said "gr$$n bloods". 

Mid-major stands for legitimate educational institution.

[jesmu84]

Bush has been paid somewhere between $60 million and $70 million as a pro football player.

I would like to be similarly harmed.

Ding Ding. Plus, everyone who has eyeballs watched him in college. Even if he doesn't have the trophy, he was still the best player in the nation.

Again, I just get frustrated with the lack of bite to these punishments. Especially if they're really meant to deter the "crime" in the first place.

[rocket surgeon]

  "What I don't think will happen, and wish it would.....would be to vacate this championship if they win it.  I don't think anyone has the balls to do that."


why not?  ma-ma-ma-ma-ma money wouldn't have anything to do with it?  when in doubt, head-scratchin in doubt, how could this be, say it ain't so....follow the money.  someone(many someones) is getting greased...A LOT!!  this has repercussions that will reverberate throughout, for awhile.  SMU must have had a lot of bad bad people not in the wine n cheese crowd of the NCayay penthouse

[Benny B]

The Big East will become Ivy lite or Ivy heavy and totally unlike the SEC/ACC and their ilk. MU is not an NBA minor league like most "blue bloods".   Al should have said "gr$$n bloods". 

Mid-major stands for legitimate educational institution.

So Oral Roberts is a legitimate educational institution.  Got it.