NY Times: Imagine the Big East, Coast to Coast

[MerrittsMustache]

Interesting idea one of them had about expanding to 16 and making four divisions of four. Round robin with your division and one game against every other team.

Atlantic
Providence
St. John's
Georgetown
Seton Hall

East
Butler
Xavier
Villanova
Dayton

Midwest
Marquette
Depaul
Creighton
St. Louis

West
Gonzaga
St. Mary's
BYU
Denver/Loyola Marymount/San Diego (whatever West Coast team fits the best)

I actually really like this idea in theory. Unites all the major basketball only schools. Hits a lot of major media markets. Good competition, the only doormats added are St. Louis and whatever the last west coast team is (even the old 16 team BEast had Rutgers/South Florida so 3 doormats in a 16 team conference is not bad). I don't think it works because of TV money. I think our contract only allows for expansion to 12.

Hard pass. More is not always better.

If the BE feels the need to expand, they need to aim significiantly higher than SLU, Denver, etc.

[jsglow]

Gonzaga perspective. Interesting seeing their read on St. Mary's vs Santa Clara and Loyola Marymount. I still think you'd add BYU before any of those (BYU is not getting into the Big XII or any major conference anytime soon).

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?56786-Big-East-expansion

Interesting.  Of course they are salivating.  But exactly who in the existing 10 team conference votes for this? 

Anybody in the Eastern timezone?  nope
DePaul?
Marquette?
Creighton?

I'm not even sure Fox would like it.  Is it really better to televise GTown at the Zags than any random west coast game you might put on?  No one in Washington DC will stay up for that game on a Tuesday.

I must say that the 'loose affiliation' H/H non-con has some appeal.  The Zags and St. Mary's could schedule two BEast opponents a year.  In MU's case, that would have dramatically improved our dreaded RPI.  I don't think flying west once every couple of years for a single game would be unreasonable.  Last time, we hit ASU on our way out to the Cali tournament AND flew to Vegas for that game against New Mex.  That gets MU a very nice partner without diluting the conference.

[MerrittsMustache]

Interesting.  Of course they are salivating.  But exactly who in the existing 10 team conference votes for this? 

Anybody in the Eastern timezone?  nope
DePaul?
Marquette?
Creighton?

I'm not even sure Fox would like it.  Is it really better to televise GTown at the Zags than any random west coast game you might put on?  No one in Washington DC will stay up for that game on a Tuesday.

I must say that the 'loose affiliation' H/H non-con has some appeal.  The Zags and St. Mary's could schedule two BEast opponents a year.  In MU's case, that would have dramatically improved our dreaded RPI.  I don't think flying west once every couple of years for a single game would be unreasonable.  Last time, we hit ASU on our way out to the Cali tournament AND flew to Vegas for that game against New Mex.  That gets MU a very nice partner without diluting the conference.

Big East-WCC Challenge?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Hard pass. More is not always better.

If the BE feels the need to expand, they need to aim significiantly higher than SLU, Denver, etc.

Oh I'd hard pass it too. The money doesn't work out at all. But the college basketball fan in me would love to see all these major basketball first schools (and BYU) brought together.

[Coleman]

you guys are all making this too complicated. There aren't enough quality teams to expand to 16 teams, much less 20.

Go to 12, adding St. Mary's and Gonzaga. No divisions, it is just not necessary. We didn't have divisions with a 16 team Big East, we certainly don't need it with a 12 team Big East.

18 game schedule. You play 7 teams twice, and 4 teams once. It rotates so that you play everyone twice within a span of a few years.

No need to make it any more complex than that.

If you HAD to push for 14, then I'd say Dayton and VCU would be the next logical choices. But I think it could work just fine with 12 with Gonzaga and St. Mary's

[Aughnanure]

They wouldn't be 10pm starts. Probably 8 pm central, 9 pm eastern (6 pm pacific)

Nah, Fox would use it to create triple header nights and would want to play in primetime on the west coast (8pm). Likely they'd be 11pm ET games.

[MerrittsMustache]

If you HAD to push for 14, then I'd say Dayton and VCU would be the next logical choices. But I think it could work just fine with 12 with Gonzaga and St. Mary's

VCU?! A public, research university with 25,000 students is the next logical choice to join the "small Catholic school" conference?

[jsglow]

Big East-WCC Challenge?

I'd need to look further.  How far 'down the well' does one go in the WCC?  They'd love it for sure.

[GooooMarquette]

you guys are all making this too complicated. There aren't enough quality teams to expand to 16 teams, much less 20.

Go to 12, adding St. Mary's and Gonzaga. No divisions, it is just not necessary. We didn't have divisions with a 16 team Big East, we certainly don't need it with a 12 team Big East.

18 game schedule. You play 7 teams twice, and 4 teams once. It rotates so that you play everyone twice within a span of a few years.

No need to make it any more complex than that.

If you HAD to push for 14, then I'd say Dayton and VCU would be the next logical choices. But I think it could work just fine with 12 with Gonzaga and St. Mary's

I'd be fine with adding Gonzaga and St. Mary's, but anything more waters it down.

[Coleman]

VCU?! A public, research university with 25,000 students is the next logical choice to join the "small Catholic school" conference?

If you had to push me for 2 more choices to get to 14, then yes. But did you even read the rest of my post? I said 12 would be fine.

And I care less about the public/state school vs. Catholic/private dynamic than the football vs. no football dynamic.

That is really all that matters.

[jsglow]

And let's add one thing.  The Spokane TV market is exactly 239 people.  So that helps how? 

Not to go down this path but good old mid-major SLU brings in all those damn Cardinal eyeballs.  And I'm pretty sure that our east coast brothers really resisted their inclusion 3 years ago.

[Aughnanure]

I'd be fine with adding Gonzaga and St. Mary's, but anything more waters it down.

BYU

[Coleman]

And let's add one thing.  The Spokane TV market is exactly 239 people.  So that helps how? 

Not to go down this path but good old mid-major SLU brings in all those damn Cardinal eyeballs.  And I'm pretty sure that our east coast brothers really resisted their inclusion 3 years ago.

My folks live in Washington and FWIW Gonzaga basketball fans are across the entire Pacific Northwest, not just Spokane proper.

And I'm not opposed to SLU but they would have to come with a really strong partner (like a Gonzaga). They haven't been able to maintain the success Majerus brought them.

[GooooMarquette]

And let's add one thing.  The Spokane TV market is exactly 239 people.  So that helps how? 

Not to go down this path but good old mid-major SLU brings in all those damn Cardinal eyeballs.  And I'm pretty sure that our east coast brothers really resisted their inclusion 3 years ago.

FWIW, the Spokane TV market is listed here as #75 in the US.  Omaha is #76.

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

And I wouldn't be surprised if Gonzaga brought in the Seattle market too....

[Coleman]

FWIW, the Spokane TV market is listed here as #75 in the US.  Omaha is #76.

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

And I wouldn't be surprised if Gonzaga brought in the Seattle market too....

And also similar to Creighton in Omaha, Gonzaga is the only game in town. No professional sports or other major D1 schools.

And yes, Gonzaga brings in the Seattle Market, Walla Walla, Yakima, Columbia Valley, as well as northern Idaho. Their fanbase is huge and rabid. It really does remind me a lot of Creighton.

[Aughnanure]

And let's add one thing.  The Spokane TV market is exactly 239 people.  So that helps how? 

Not to go down this path but good old mid-major SLU brings in all those damn Cardinal eyeballs.  And I'm pretty sure that our east coast brothers really resisted their inclusion 3 years ago.

They're a national brand. And don't they play a game or two in Seattle every year now? Spokane is the 2nd largest city in Washington and technically just the the 3rd or 4th largest city in that northwest area (Wash, Ore, Idaho, Mont). Boise is smaller city-wise but has a little more metro-wise. Spokane is 540,000 metro...so not nothing.

[Coleman]

They're a national brand. And don't they play a game or two in Seattle every year now? Spokane is the 2nd largest city in Washington and technically just the the 3rd or 4th largest city in that northwest area (Wash, Ore, Idaho, Mont). Boise is smaller city-wise but has a little more metro-wise. Spokane is 540,000 metro...so not nothing.

Yes, they do play in Seattle every year, against a major non-conference opponent. It is called the Battle in Seattle. The games are well-attended and they definitely have a following in Seattle.

[GooooMarquette]

BYU

Just like UConn and Cinci, I'd take them the instant they dump football.

[MU82]

Interesting idea one of them had about expanding to 16 and making four divisions of four. Round robin with your division and one game against every other team.

Atlantic
Providence
St. John's
Georgetown
Seton Hall

East
Butler
Xavier
Villanova
Dayton

Midwest
Marquette
Depaul
Creighton
St. Louis

West
Gonzaga
St. Mary's
BYU
Denver/Loyola Marymount/San Diego (whatever West Coast team fits the best)

I actually really like this idea in theory. Unites all the major basketball only schools. Hits a lot of major media markets. Good competition, the only doormats added are St. Louis and whatever the last west coast team is (even the old 16 team BEast had Rutgers/South Florida so 3 doormats in a 16 team conference is not bad). I don't think it works because of TV money. I think our contract only allows for expansion to 12.

I would especially see Nova give this a huge thumbs-down.  BE member since 1982 (league's third year) doesn't get to play with the four originals from their geographic region?

It's simply too many teams and too farfetched, which you later agreed with in a comment.

As for those who claim Gonzaga only draws Spokane audience, that's ridiculous. Very popular all across the region and probably every bit as much a national basketball brand as Marquette, frankly. And I'm guessing Fox knows that and would be very happy to have them. If we could somehow make the logistics work, I'd love Gonzaga in the league.

Notre Dame, UConn and Cinci are the only others not currently in the league that I want, but that probably will never happen. BYU is interesting, especially if Gonzaga comes in, but seems unlikely.

Otherwise ... all of them ... blechhh. Every last one of them.

[Aughnanure]

Just like UConn and Cinci, I'd take them the instant they dump football.

They basically have. They're independent and really have no chance of getting into a P5 conference for a long time.

[Benny B]

You guys are thinking too small.  Go big or go home.  21 Teams.  Call it the Blackjack Conference.

East
Nova
GU
PC
SHU
SJU
UConn
VCU

Midwest
Marq
Creighton
Butler
Derp
X
SMU
Cincy

Pacific
Zags
SMC
UNLV
SDSU
UNM
Utah State
Dayton or BYU

Obviously, the above assumes that some of these schools drop football completely (or to FCS), which right now is probably much more likely than your average sports fan thinks, even if the movement is still about a decade away (which, conveniently, happens to align with the expiration of the current FS1 contract).

Home & homes within division, and three from each of the other two divisions on a rotating basis. 

Travel isn't that bad, actually.  East/West teams alternate between two cross-country and one Midwest trips and one cross-country and two Midwest trips per year (very manageable).  Midwest teams alternate between two east and one west, and one east and two west per year (not much different than what it is already).

Tourney would have to be worked out to throw the west coast teams some sort of bone.  Perhaps every third or fourth year the tourney's held in Vegas or L.A. (and sublease the Garden in those years to the ACC or Big? for a couple million bucks).

If you want to go national, cover the whole damn country.  If not, stick with what we've got.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

You guys are thinking too small.  Go big or go home.  21 Teams.  Call it the Blackjack Conference.

East
Nova
GU
PC
SHU
SJU
UConn
VCU

Midwest
Marq
Creighton
Butler
Derp
X
SMU
Cincy

Pacific
Zags
SMC
UNLV
SDSU
UNM
Utah State
Dayton or BYU

Obviously, the above assumes that some of these schools drop football completely (or to FCS), which right now is probably much more likely than your average sports fan thinks, even if the movement is still about a decade away (which, conveniently, happens to align with the expiration of the current FS1 contract).

Home & homes within division, and three from each of the other two divisions on a rotating basis. 

Travel isn't that bad, actually.  East/West teams alternate between two cross-country and one Midwest trips per year and one cross-country and two Midwest trips (very manageable).  Midwest teams alternate between two east and one west, and one east and two west every other year (not much different than what it is already).

Tourney would have to be worked out to throw the west coast teams some sort of bone.  Perhaps every third or fourth year the tourney's held in Vegas or L.A. (and sublease the Garden in those years to the ACC or Big? for a couple million bucks).

If you want to go national, cover the whole damn country.  If not, stick with what we've got.

I just don't know what to think on this proposal, but you did stick Dayton out west!

[GooooMarquette]

You guys are thinking too small.  Go big or go home.  21 Teams.  Call it the Blackjack Conference.

East
Nova
GU
PC
SHU
SJU
UConn
VCU

Midwest
Marq
Creighton
Butler
Derp
X
SMU
Cincy

Pacific
Zags
SMC
UNLV
SDSU
UNM
Utah State
Dayton or BYU

Obviously, the above assumes that some of these schools drop football completely (or to FCS), which right now is probably much more likely than your average sports fan thinks, even if the movement is still about a decade away (which, conveniently, happens to align with the expiration of the current FS1 contract).

Home & homes within division, and three from each of the other two divisions on a rotating basis. 

Travel isn't that bad, actually.  East/West teams alternate between two cross-country and one Midwest trips and one cross-country and two Midwest trips per year (very manageable).  Midwest teams alternate between two east and one west, and one east and two west per year (not much different than what it is already).

Tourney would have to be worked out to throw the west coast teams some sort of bone.  Perhaps every third or fourth year the tourney's held in Vegas or L.A. (and sublease the Garden in those years to the ACC or Big? for a couple million bucks).

If you want to go national, cover the whole damn country.  If not, stick with what we've got.

You missed Temple and LaSalle.

And Fordham.  Where on earth is Fordham?

[Benny B]

I just don't know what to think on this proposal, but you did stick Dayton out west!

I figure that will be a solid selling point to the East and Midwest teams... not so much the West teams, but they're going to want in so desperately that I think we'll be able to push that one across.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

VCU?! A public, research university with 25,000 students is the next logical choice to join the "small Catholic school" conference?

Big East don't care. As long as you're a quality basketball first school with no/independent/fcs football, in a nice tv market, you can get in.

Unfortunately, not too many of those around. For the moment, I think were good at 10