NFC North/NFL Thread 2016-17

[MerrittsMustache]

Average QB. One WR. Bad line. No RB. No TE. No play-makers on either side of the ball. No pass rush. Bad secondary. Tons of injuries. I still think the coaching staff is pretty good but they have nothing to work with. Emery set the franchise back a decade.

[DegenerateDish]

I've said it before on here, it's probably the most underachieving franchise in sports, in terms of how it's run, combined with results on the field. An accountant is still running the organization, they refuse to let an outsider run things. Forbes NFL franchise values just came out, Bears again are not in top 5. Normally you might not correlate franchise value to on field success, but no franchise epitomizes that link like the Bears do.

[jesmu84]

Average QB. One WR. Bad line. No RB. No TE. No play-makers on either side of the ball. No pass rush. Bad secondary. Tons of injuries. I still think the coaching staff is pretty good but they have nothing to work with. Emery set the franchise back a decade.

If Long is playing hurt as rumored, then I wouldn't say it's a bad line as much as it is horrible LT, RT.

Bears pass rush is garbage. So many 3rd and 5+ where Wentz had all day.

[MerrittsMustache]

I've said it before on here, it's probably the most underachieving franchise in sports, in terms of how it's run, combined with results on the field. An accountant is still running the organization, they refuse to let an outsider run things. Forbes NFL franchise values just came out, Bears again are not in top 5. Normally you might not correlate franchise value to on field success, but no franchise epitomizes that link like the Bears do.

If only there was a Rocky McCaskey in the family...

[Spotcheck Billy]

I'm saying that the Packers tend to get favorable calls, particularly at home. Was it that confusing?

Of course, there's no hard data to prove this because it can't really be measured, but it's believed by many football fans, even those who aren't part of "an enemy fanbase." Sure, just because something is believed by the football world, that doesn't make it fact. It just means that the belief is out there. I don't know why it seems to be upsetting people.

A few calls one way or the other is one thing but who else suffered a Fail Mary bad call?

[RJax55]

I've said it before on here, it's probably the most underachieving franchise in sports, in terms of how it's run, combined with results on the field. An accountant is still running the organization, they refuse to let an outsider run things. Forbes NFL franchise values just came out, Bears again are not in top 5. Normally you might not correlate franchise value to on field success, but no franchise epitomizes that link like the Bears do.

The old lady is now 93. Is there a viable succession plan? Looks quite messy.

Could be the end of the family's majority ownership and some hope for us fans.

[Hidden User]

A few calls one way or the other is one thing but who else suffered a Fail Mary bad call?

Dez caught it.

[DegenerateDish]

The old lady is now 93. Is there a viable succession plan? Looks quite messy.

Could be the end of the family's majority ownership and some hope for us fans.

She'll be 94 in January, she's still presumably in good health, but one has to figure in the next 6-8 years, father time may come calling.

It will be quite interesting what happens when she does pass. They have a very complex ownership structure in place right now, one that Halas set up before his death, that was intended to keep the team in the family while limiting tax exposure. Since her kids already have ownership stock, there would be no estate taxes in play here, but each child would only own 6.6% of stock upon Virginia's death. The problem for the family is their sole source of income is the Bears. NFL won't allow one of the kids to utilize debt to buy up/buy out other kid's shares.

What's kind of remarkable is how well the family gets along. I worked there for a season (2000), and had dealings with Brian and George, and they were nice people to me at least. That may all change once Virginia is gone, there certainly could be a power play among the kids, but the real issue is what happens with the kids shares once their deceased. Splitting 6.6% among each kid's kids gets further complicated.

My guess is the plan is for Patrick Ryan to obtain the requisite 10%/20% majority for lead ownership, with the McCaskey kids maintaining some portion. The best thing the family could do is sell outright, not owning Soldier Field hurts, but any new owner would either try to re-negotiate the Soldier Field contract with the city, or plan to build/move to a new stadium. If sold outright, I think the family would get $2.5 billion for them, if they owned the stadium, probably closer to $3 bil.

[GGGG]

Dez caught it.

Not according to the rules.

[GGGG]

She'll be 94 in January, she's still presumably in good health, but one has to figure in the next 6-8 years, father time may come calling.

It will be quite interesting what happens when she does pass. They have a very complex ownership structure in place right now, one that Halas set up before his death, that was intended to keep the team in the family while limiting tax exposure. Since her kids already have ownership stock, there would be no estate taxes in play here, but each child would only own 6.6% of stock upon Virginia's death. The problem for the family is their sole source of income is the Bears. NFL won't allow one of the kids to utilize debt to buy up/buy out other kid's shares.

What's kind of remarkable is how well the family gets along. I worked there for a season (2000), and had dealings with Brian and George, and they were nice people to me at least. That may all change once Virginia is gone, there certainly could be a power play among the kids, but the real issue is what happens with the kids shares once their deceased. Splitting 6.6% among each kid's kids gets further complicated.

My guess is the plan is for Patrick Ryan to obtain the requisite 10%/20% majority for lead ownership, with the McCaskey kids maintaining some portion. The best thing the family could do is sell outright, not owning Soldier Field hurts, but any new owner would either try to re-negotiate the Soldier Field contract with the city, or plan to build/move to a new stadium. If sold outright, I think the family would get $2.5 billion for them, if they owned the stadium, probably closer to $3 bil.

The kids won' t need an income the Bears are sold for $2.5B.  Each kid at 6.6% gets $165M. 

[MU B2002]

I am a little surprised that there are 45 posts discussing security, food, and sight lines at US Bank stadium, but are there any posts about the game.  Packers probably should have lost that game by 3 touchdowns.


C'mon Jay Bee, I expected more.



edit:
My bad, just noticed there was a game thread.



I will go back to thinking about how bad this season is going to be as a Bears fan.

[MU82]

She'll be 94 in January, she's still presumably in good health, but one has to figure in the next 6-8 years, father time may come calling.

Hmmm ... maybe I can set her up with my 90-year-old father-in-law -- if she's interested in a younger man.

Then, she can kick the bucket and he can inherit the Bears.

Then, he can kick the bucket and my wife can inherit the Bears.

She'll name me President and GM (of course), and I'll show ya how to turn this chit around.

First move: Jay Cutler, Player-Coach.

[wadesworld]

Hmmm ... maybe I can set her up with my 90-year-old father-in-law -- if she's interested in a younger man.

Then, she can kick the bucket and he can inherit the Bears.

Then, he can kick the bucket and my wife can inherit the Bears.

She'll name me President and GM (of course), and I'll show ya how to turn this chit around.

First move: Jay Cutler, Player-Coach.

He can finally get himself fired for a change!

[MU B2002]

He can finally get himself fired for a change!

He got his last OC a head job.   

sorry, I could hardly type that without laughing.

I will be the first to admit, I like Cutler. But it was obvious last night after the fumble play something was up. Should have taken himself out right then if he thought throwing the ball would be a problem.  I wondered if he was hurt when they ran 7 straight times. (Jordan Howard looked good.)  I think his next three passes were: ground ball, ground ball, brutal interception.

[MerrittsMustache]

He got his last OC a head job.   

sorry, I could hardly type that without laughing.

I will be the first to admit, I like Cutler. But it was obvious last night after the fumble play something was up. Should have taken himself out right then if he thought throwing the ball would be a problem.  I wondered if he was hurt when they ran 7 straight times. (Jordan Howard looked good.)  I think his next three passes were: ground ball, ground ball, brutal interception.

He initially re-injured his thumb at Houston but then re-re-injured it on the sack/fumble. Once he skipped that 10-yarder to an open Zach Miller on 3rd down, they should have sat him down. By no means do I feel confident that Hoyer would have led the team to victory but he could at least get the ball down field. Then again, Fox won a playoff game with a QB who couldn't throw in Denver so who knows?

[wadesworld]

There was a stretch of 31 straight plays in Sunday Night's game that the Packers used the exact same personnel on offense.  Yikes.

[DegenerateDish]

The kids won' t need an income the Bears are sold for $2.5B.  Each kid at 6.6% gets $165M.

My point was that if Brian wanted to buy George's shares, he currently doesn't have $165 mil at his disposal to do so. No McCaskey child has that kind of individual wealth currently to buy another siblings shares.

[GGGG]

My point was that if Brian wanted to buy George's shares, he currently doesn't have $165 mil at his disposal to do so. No McCaskey child has that kind of individual wealth currently to buy another siblings shares.

Right I understand.  Which basically means that a sale might be inevitable.

[MerrittsMustache]

My point was that if Brian wanted to buy George's shares, he currently doesn't have $165 mil at his disposal to do so. No McCaskey child has that kind of individual wealth currently to buy another siblings shares.

But if they sell the team, they'd each get $165M so even though they'd have no more income from the Bears, they wouldn't need one because they'd each have $165M.

Also, wouldn't it be feasible to think that they'd have it written into the sale that the McCaskey kids and/or grandkids could still have some role within the organization if they so choose? Charities, appearances, members of the board, what have you and then put a PR spin on it as still having Halas lineage on the payroll.

[MU82]

He can finally get himself fired for a change!

Good for you.

[DegenerateDish]

But if they sell the team, they'd each get $165M so even though they'd have no more income from the Bears, they wouldn't need one because they'd each have $165M.

Also, wouldn't it be feasible to think that they'd have it written into the sale that the McCaskey kids and/or grandkids could still have some role within the organization if they so choose? Charities, appearances, members of the board, what have you and then put a PR spin on it as still having Halas lineage on the payroll.

Right, the family will be very wealthy if/when they sell, which is ironic because they are not wealthy at all currently. When Mugs died, the family was in a rough spot when the executor of his will tried selling his stock to some minority Bulls owners, the family opted in on right of first refusal, and had to sell stock to Ryan & McKenna. They are probably the "poorest" owners in all of professional sports.

I'd imagine the family will retain some shares eventually, or George has some type of emeritus role or something. As the Irish Catholic McCaskey's have more kids/grandkids, their shares will get diluted. 

2033 is the key year, when their lease is up at Soldier Field.

[rocket surgeon]

Hmmm ... maybe I can set her up with my 90-year-old father-in-law -- if she's interested in a younger man.

Then, she can kick the bucket and he can inherit the Bears.

Then, he can kick the bucket and my wife can inherit the Bears.

She'll name me President and GM (of course), and I'll show ya how to turn this chit around.

First move: Jay Cutler, Player-Coach.

     I heard she has gas

[naginiF]

     I heard she has gas

[wadesworld]

I heard someone saying that maybe 2 seasons ago(?) the Packers ran just under 50% of their plays with 3 WRs, 1 TE, and 1 RB.  This year they are running that package on over 70% of their plays.  The guy said that "this is what defensive coordinators dream of."

[mu03eng]

I heard someone saying that maybe 2 seasons ago(?) the Packers ran just under 50% of their plays with 3 WRs, 1 TE, and 1 RB.  This year they are running that package on over 70% of their plays.  The guy said that "this is what defensive coordinators dream of."

I can't even remember the last time the offense ran 5 wide or went to a heavy package. The offense these days is basically advanced RPO (run-pass option). They line up in the 11, have a play scheme called, each scheme has a run option built in they can audible to or from, then there is a quick pass option if they stay in the run and finally all the receivers have route combinations they read out of their positions that the QB has to also read and hope they match up.

Problem is they are running the same receiving trees out of the same same positions with the same formations so the defenses can read it too.


Question is, are they getting this predictible because the personnel can't run anything more complicated or is McCarthy trying to be too cute by half?