Buzz Has Va Tech On A Roll

[tower912]

So, apparently, the whole rest of the NCAA basketball community views Buzz differently than Chicos.    Stunning. 

[GGGG]

Chicos is right that Buzz made a huge mistake implying that the player should contact the alleged victim.  He should have reported it to the AD immediately, and this oversight probably cost Cottingham his job.  But Marquette then overreacted, and Buzz doesn't react well in response.  The atmosphere became poisonous.

I think a better President and better AD would have been able to navigate those waters better.  Perhaps Buzz would have reacted better and still be at MU.  But that's all water under the bridge.

Apparently Chicos expected Buzz to not make any mistakes, while simultaneously excusing every mistake the Crean makes.  Very odd.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos is right that Buzz made a huge mistake implying that the player should contact the alleged victim.  He should have reported it to the AD immediately, and this oversight probably cost Cottingham his job.  But Marquette then overreacted, and Buzz doesn't react well in response.  The atmosphere became poisonous.

I think a better President and better AD would have been able to navigate those waters better.  Perhaps Buzz would have reacted better and still be at MU.  But that's all water under the bridge.

Apparently Chicos expected Buzz to not make any mistakes, while simultaneously excusing every mistake the Crean makes.  Very odd.

Where am I excusing Crean's mistakes?  Crean coaches Indiana, what he does at IU had no impact to MU.

Buzz's mistakes impacted Marquette University.  This is about Buzz and Marquette and the impact to Marquette.

You guys bringing up something that happened at another school by a former coach is irrelevant.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So....all the news you promised would break two years ago, is really just still news from 5 years ago.    Meanwhile, defending Crean by saying IU never wins the B16 title.  I know you bleed blue & gold occasionally, but I understand why others think you're mostly being dishonest.

Show me where I promised anything?  I never did.  I said more shoes would drop, but I also said I Will Not Be the one dropping them.  Big difference.

Use that robust search engine on the software you are using, but what you just stated is a complete fabrication as I never said I was breaking any news.  I'm not stupid, but I sure as hell know what parties I would bring in legally to back me up if need be.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So, apparently, the whole rest of the NCAA basketball community views Buzz differently than Chicos.    Stunning.

Lol...yup, the rest of the NCAA basketball community...good one.

There will always be some schools that will hire anyone, that doesn't make it the rest of the NCAA basketball community.

Just win baby folks who have no scruples at all, fit this narrative.

[GGGG]

Lol...yup, the rest of the NCAA basketball community...good one.

There will always be some schools that will hire anyone, that doesn't make it the rest of the NCAA basketball community.

Just win baby folks who have no scruples at all, fit this narrative.

Just because some people appreciated Buzz that doesn't mean we only cared about winning.  He graduated players, was successful on the court and usually represented the University well.  Sure he made mistakes, many people do, but Marquette made many in its overreaction.

And why have you just devolved your Scoop persona into nothing but a troll with talking points?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Just because some people appreciated Buzz that doesn't mean we only cared about winning.  He graduated players, was successful on the court and usually represented the University well.  Sure he made mistakes, many people do, but Marquette made many in its overreaction.

And why have you just devolved your Scoop persona into nothing but a troll with talking points?

Buzz's APR graduation rates at MU are down, so your statement is not true.

I said often, he's a good coach and I appreciate his coaching abilities.  It is the other nonsense that I don't, including the tarnish of the program under his watch, the way he treated people in the athletic dept (friends of mine....yes, Crean was an epic douche in that regard as well), etc, etc.

He's a good coach and a phony character....and I do mean character or caricature, if you wish. 


The thing that strikes me most about the Buzz worshippers is that if he merely would have kept his guys in line, things wouldn't have been a problem.  But he didn't and couldn't. 

Cream was a dick and douche.  Buzz was scummy. 

[Lennys Tap]

Where am I excusing Crean's mistakes?  Crean coaches Indiana, what he does at IU had no impact to MU.

Where? Formerly on Dodd's board. On Scoop from its inception to this day. On Peegs (an IU site) as "Jim Television". And likely multiple other places we know nothing about. Ahab was less obsessed with Moby Dick than you are with Tom Crean. The only reason you give a spit about Buzz Williams is that he performed better as an MU coach than Tom Crean. How dare he! So you do everything you can to tear down Buzz because you think it makes Tom Crean more palatable. It doesn't.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Where am I excusing Crean's mistakes?  Crean coaches Indiana, what he does at IU had no impact to MU.

Buzz's mistakes impacted Marquette University.  This is about Buzz and Marquette and the impact to Marquette.

You guys bringing up something that happened at another school by a former coach is irrelevant.

Umm...I actually brought up just a "few" of Crean's mistakes that impacted MU (and Buzz), and have followed with him to I4.  "Just win, baby".

Here is a fact:  Pilarz and Larry would have been on Crean's ass as much as they were on Buzz's (I am still waiting for those raised NCAA academic standards they imposed ahead of the curve on Buzz to be implemented, you now, the ones that would have denied the chance for #3 to be admitted to MU as a JUCO). For both TC and Buzz, the regimes changed, and neither coach reacted well.  They left, and fortunately in the latter case, so did the lacking university leadership, to the benefit of things much greater than #MUAD.

[GGGG]

Buzz's APR graduation rates at MU are down, so your statement is not true.

Oy.  My statement is true.  You implied my statement meant something it didn't.

[4everwarriors]

Crean sucks

[keefe]

Umm...I actually brought up just a "few" of Crean's mistakes that impacted MU (and Buzz), and have followed with him to I4.  "Just win, baby".

Here is a fact:  Pilarz and Larry would have been on Crean's ass as much as they were on Buzz's (I am still waiting for those raised NCAA academic standards they imposed ahead of the curve on Buzz to be implemented, you now, the ones that would have denied the chance for #3 to be admitted to MU as a JUCO). For both TC and Buzz, the regimes changed, and neither coach reacted well.  They left, and fortunately in the latter case, so did the lacking university leadership, to the benefit of things much greater than #MUAD.

Poetry, anyone?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Umm...I actually brought up just a "few" of Crean's mistakes that impacted MU (and Buzz), and have followed with him to I4.  "Just win, baby".

Here is a fact:  Pilarz and Larry would have been on Crean's ass as much as they were on Buzz's (I am still waiting for those raised NCAA academic standards they imposed ahead of the curve on Buzz to be implemented, you now, the ones that would have denied the chance for #3 to be admitted to MU as a JUCO). For both TC and Buzz, the regimes changed, and neither coach reacted well.  They left, and fortunately in the latter case, so did the lacking university leadership, to the benefit of things much greater than #MUAD.

Lol

Your examples included stuff at IU that have Zero impact on MU.

As for the ones that happened at MU, please let's compare the arrests, the front page Chicago Tribune articles, the lead stories in channel 12 news, channel 6, channel 4....let's compare those impacts.  It isn't even the same planet, let alone ballpark. 

Again, if Buzz could have controlled some of his guys, those additional standards would not have been implemented.  You guys blame Pilarz and Larry, but forget what their reaction (or over reaction) was in response to....to Buzz's guys screwing up!! 

The irony.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Poetry, anyone?

Honest question, you've implied a few things about his sexuality...how is that relevant?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Oy.  My statement is true.  You implied my statement meant something it didn't.

No, I gave more depth to your statement.  Yes, Buzz graduated some players, but our APR scores went down under Buzz....providing context and depth to your response.

Henry Ellenson makes 3 point shots.  True statement.   If someone were to follow that up and say he takes a lot of 3's and is not a good three point shooter, that is also accurate and provides a better, more complete answer.

[GGGG]

No, I gave more depth to your statement.  Yes, Buzz graduated some players, but our APR scores went down under Buzz....providing context and depth to your response.

Henry Ellenson makes 3 point shots.  True statement.   If someone were to follow that up and say he takes a lot of 3's and is not a good three point shooter, that is also accurate and provides a better, more complete answer.

You said my statement wasn't true.  It was.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You said my statement wasn't true.  It was.

Fair enough. 

Your statement lacked a lot of credibility because every coach graduates some players.  Our APR rates declined, our graduation rate declined.  Is that better?

In addition, our police blotter and terrible stories about the program and university regarding the basketball team\program escalated during his time.   That is also a true statement if you wish to play this game.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Our APR rates improved from 2004 to 2010 every year, hitting a high in 2010.  They have since declined every year since. 

Our Graduation rate has also gone down.  Stats are always in arrears, so the last graduating cohort is Buzz's first year.  Graduation rate of 67%.   Prior to that, the previous 6 years were higher, including two years of cohorts at 100% and two others at 87% or higher. 

We'll see how things shake out as the new data comes out with additional cohorts added, all of them Buzz's.  We won't see Wojo's until 6 years from now.

[keefe]

Honest question, you've implied a few things about his sexuality...how is that relevant?

I haven't implied anything.

And for the record I could care less who one hungers for as long as it is not a minor or a subordinate.

Pilarz was and is a disaster as the leader of my alma maters. It pisses me off that my donations are continuing to help pay his salary.

Teaching poetry when he couldn't get his brain around his primary function as Prez underscored how truly out of touch he was as a leader. There is Pilarz and Williams stink all over Marquette's current struggles on the court.

We went from the penthouse to the outhouse in large measure because of that assclown's judgment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I haven't implied anything.

OK, I guess I read too much into it, but that was my take.

As for Pilarz, there's a reason why MU is no longer just allowing Jesuits to be president.  As for Larry, what would you have him do when his bosses are telling him to get control over a coach that has his team KILLING the university in the press with their actions?  Absolutely killing the university?

I'm being serious?  Buzz made some massive mistakes with some of the players he brought in and it hurt the university.  I know that pisses people off that Buzz left when he was "squeezed", but he was squeezed for a reason.....that's on Buzz.  It amazes me how many people give this guy a free pass.  If his guys didn't fuk up so badly, including his staff and players and Buzz personally, then the squeezing wouldn't have happened.  Was it an overreaction?  Probably, but again....what caused the overreaction?  Buzz's guys.  For every overreaction, there is something that led to it. 

Buzz is better off being at a school where basketball is second fiddle, where the local rags will cover for the school and bury stuff.   That's not going to happen at MU, where we are a private school in a big city, and people already wanting to take shots at us.  The press will do us no favors.

[Jay Bee]

Buzz's APR graduation rates at MU are down, so your statement is not true.

APR and graduation rates are two different things.

(Although the performance of both with Buzz were not strong)

[Dr. Blackheart]

Lol

Your examples included stuff at IU that have Zero impact on MU.

As for the ones that happened at MU, please let's compare the arrests, the front page Chicago Tribune articles, the lead stories in channel 12 news, channel 6, channel 4....let's compare those impacts.  It isn't even the same planet, let alone ballpark. 

Again, if Buzz could have controlled some of his guys, those additional standards would not have been implemented.  You guys blame Pilarz and Larry, but forget what their reaction (or over reaction) was in response to....to Buzz's guys screwing up!! 

The irony.

Hmmm...you may want to try reading my post again instead of machinegun firing back response after response...as I included quite a few MU examples of CTC's other legacy.  I know love is blind...but come on.

Btw, your Pilarz and Larry defense is comical vs. their reality at this great university, way outside of the Buzz situation. As I said, the BOT stepped in an moved all the participants along, with a push or a nudge,  Buzz included.

[ChicosBailBonds]

APR and graduation rates are two different things.

(Although the performance of both with Buzz were not strong)

That is correct, which is why I stated it that way....when I said graduation rates have "also" gone down.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hmmm...you may want to try reading my post again instead of machinegun firing back response after response...as I included quite a few MU examples of CTC's other legacy.  I know love is blind...but come on.

Btw, your Pilarz and Larry defense is comical vs. their reality at this great university, way outside of the Buzz situation. As I said, the BOT stepped in an moved all the participants along, with a push or a nudge,  Buzz included.

You may want to read my response, ACKNOWLEDGING that you provided examples of both, but that you ALSO included one of IU.  Irony.

How am I defending Pilarz?  I'm not.

As for Larry, he followed the directions of his superiors.   That's what subordinates are supposed to do, or resign if you don't think it is right.  BOT was plenty pissed off about Buzz's bunch (and I don't mean the kids) and the drag on the university.  The problem on this board is that everyone views it with a basketball lens, not a university lens.  80% of the students, alumni, etc, don't give a rip about MU basketball or don't follow it.  They don't like seeing their university dragged through the mud because the basketball coach couldn't get his guys to stop being on the front pages and top stories in the news for all the wrong reasons.  Trips to the Sweet 16 don't erase that stuff.   For the record, that's the same reason Crean has gotten into trouble, because of that stuff.  Heads eventually roll.

[Blackhat]

No matter which lens you wear, we suck.   And that's not good for anybody.