Hey at least we aren't DePaul

[jsglow]

Yep.  I got the call yesterday.

[Windyplayer]

Garbage

Goose chose his words carefully. Let's not get to worked up. He said "status" and "at the moment." Insert any team better than MU this year within his statement and I agree with it. Let's get off our weird Dayton complex.

[🏀]

Goose chose his words carefully. Let's not get to worked up. He said "status" and "at the moment." Insert any team better than MU this year within his statement and I agree with it. Let's get off our weird Dayton complex.

Yeah, their status at the moment is a mid-major, beating up on a terrible A-10.

Keep it.

[Goose]

PTM

You obviously do not read my posts or know what I want from the program. I want to be Duke, Kansas, Kentucky all rolled into one. I grew up looking at Xavier and Dayton as joke programs and honestly both are stronger than we are currently. One light years ahead of us and one better.

When you see me stop posting on you here then you know I have given up my dream for the program. As much as I love MU ball, which is a lot, I would lose interest in a hurry if Dayton was our model moving forward.

[GGGG]

When we talk about the strength of programs, that goes beyond the won/loss record in any given year.  Or even over a small stretch of years.

Xavier has done a fantastic job of building their program from the joke status of forty years ago to where they are now.  They have committed resources and hired a run of great coaches.  (Gillen/Prosser/Matta/Miller/Mack)  But they aren't "light years" ahead of Marquette as a program.  Sure they have been better on court the last couple of years, but Marquette devotes plenty of resources toward basketball.  This is just a short-term speed bump more than it is some sort of Dukiet-like end to the program.

[🏀]

PTM

You obviously do not read my posts or know what I want from the program. I want to be Duke, Kansas, Kentucky all rolled into one. I grew up looking at Xavier and Dayton as joke programs and honestly both are stronger than we are currently. One light years ahead of us and one better.

When you see me stop posting on you here then you know I have given up my dream for the program. As much as I love MU ball, which is a lot, I would lose interest in a hurry if Dayton was our model moving forward.

Understood better.

Sultan pretty much sums up everything. If you want their record, fine, but Dayton's not light years ahead of Marquette. They may be winning a few battles, but they've got a long way to go to get to MU status.

Not to mention Dayton has had some extremely squirmy issues that no one would be proud of here.

[Goose]

Sultan

Strongly disagree on Xavier not being light years ahead of us at the MOMENT. Our trend, like it or not, is on negative path and Xavier has been consistently 20 win season program for years. In addition, they have not missed a beat on coaching transition. I find this very hard to say but we are more a stepping stone job than Xavier is right now. Almost threw up in my mouth saying that, but it is the sad truth.

[RushmoreAcademy]

We were last in conference last year. Now we are... well, not last. 
PROGRESS!

[GGGG]

Sultan

Strongly disagree on Xavier not being light years ahead of us at the MOMENT. Our trend, like it or not, is on negative path and Xavier has been consistently 20 win season program for years. In addition, they have not missed a beat on coaching transition. I find this very hard to say but we are more a stepping stone job than Xavier is right now. Almost threw up in my mouth saying that, but it is the sad truth.

Their last four coaches have left for other jobs. 

Too much recency bias.

[jsglow]

Sultan

Strongly disagree on Xavier not being light years ahead of us at the MOMENT. Our trend, like it or not, is on negative path and Xavier has been consistently 20 win season program for years. In addition, they have not missed a beat on coaching transition. I find this very hard to say but we are more a stepping stone job than Xavier is right now. Almost threw up in my mouth saying that, but it is the sad truth.

I don't think that's fair goose.  Mack is a local boy and there's absolutely zero indication that Wojo isn't here for the long term, whatever that is.  I have no desire to rehash the Buzz departure but do understand that MU feels 'lucky' to have avoided paying the buyout.  Right now, Xavier is having greater success.  But 2 short years ago they were an A-10 program.

[GooooMarquette]

Sultan

Strongly disagree on Xavier not being light years ahead of us at the MOMENT. Our trend, like it or not, is on negative path and Xavier has been consistently 20 win season program for years. In addition, they have not missed a beat on coaching transition. I find this very hard to say but we are more a stepping stone job than Xavier is right now. Almost threw up in my mouth saying that, but it is the sad truth.

I agree that X is in a better place than us right now.

But our trend is not on a negative path.  Last season, we won all of 13 games, despite having three seniors.  This season, we have mostly frosh and sophs, and already have more wins than all of last year.  We may not be improving as quickly as we would like, but we are definitely trending up, not down.

[Goose]

Goooo

Baby steps forward this year, agreed. I might be only guy on here that is scared of the product we will have on floor next year. Lot of optimism for next season on this board and I just do not see it. Attendance sucks, excitement level of loyal followers is on life support and students are showing up to games dressed as ghosts.

Again, I am not trying to be negative in the big picture. That said, I might be insane because I do not see how losing our best player and hoping guys improve big time is reason for optimism moving forward.

[MerrittsMustache]

Sultan

Strongly disagree on Xavier not being light years ahead of us at the MOMENT. Our trend, like it or not, is on negative path and Xavier has been consistently 20 win season program for years. In addition, they have not missed a beat on coaching transition. I find this very hard to say but we are more a stepping stone job than Xavier is right now. Almost threw up in my mouth saying that, but it is the sad truth.

Xavier has done a good job of recognizing their "stepping stone" status and having a coach-in-waiting on the bench. Matta left and Miller was promoted. Miller left and Mack was promoted. Continuity helps.

When TC left, Buzz was promoted, everyone stayed (aside from recruit Tyshawn Taylor, IIRC) and the beat went on. Say what you want about Crean but going from MU to Indiana was a no-brainer just like leaving Xavier for Ohio State or Arizona was a no-brainer. Buzz's departure wasn't nearly as "cordial" which led to the break in continuity. If Buzz had bolted for Oklahoma when that rumor was hot, maybe Tony Benford gets promoted and the beat goes on. Who knows?

[Shaka Shart]

If we traded places with them we'd be racking up wins in the A10 and they'd be fighting to stay above DePaul.

They lost by about 40 on a neutral court to their "rival" Xavier.

They beat Iowa. How'd that turn out for us?

[Goose]

jsglow

People were excited on here grabbing A-10 teams to join the new BE, so what is the point? Also, just four short years ago we were in E8 and ranked in top 8 in early preseason for the following year. I know why were not top 8 the next year but hopefully you get my point.

[GooooMarquette]

Goooo

Baby steps forward this year, agreed. I might be only guy on here that is scared of the product we will have on floor next year. Lot of optimism for next season on this board and I just do not see it. Attendance sucks, excitement level of loyal followers is on life support and students are showing up to games dressed as ghosts.

Again, I am not trying to be negative in the big picture. That said, I might be insane because I do not see how losing our best player and hoping guys improve big time is reason for optimism moving forward.

I'm basing my assessment of our trajectory on actual results - last year to this year.  Next year is a crap shoot, since we don't know for sure whether Henry will leave and even if he leaves, we have no idea what types of player improvements, changes in team chemistry, etc will occur. 

Remember a few years back when Harangody got injured for ND and everybody assumed that was the end of their season?  They got better when he was out. Totally defied logic because he was clearly their best player, but the motion on their offense improved, other players stepped up, and they played their best basketball of the season without their best player. 

I have no idea what next year will bring, but just like you aren't ready to assume we will be improved, I'm not ready to assume we won't.


Edit:  One other thought.  You could look at next season without Henry two ways.  One would be to say "we're losing our best player."  The other would be to say "we're returning 78% of our scoring and 74% of our rebounding." 

[jsglow]

jsglow

People were excited on here grabbing A-10 teams to join the new BE, so what is the point? Also, just four short years ago we were in E8 and ranked in top 8 in early preseason for the following year. I know why were not top 8 the next year but hopefully you get my point.

I totally get it goose.  It was a bumpy ride down from hanging that BEast banner 2+ years ago.  You been to any games lately?  The BC is a morgue with student attendance reflecting what folks think these days.  I swear that at that Providence double OT there wasn't 500 kids in attendance at the very peak.  Feels very much like going to the Allstate to watch a DePaul game.  It's something I don't think our far flung brothers on here quite get.  (No student bashing allowed or intended.  Just the cold hard facts about the state of the program at this very moment.)  Hopefully things get better soon.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Edit:  One other thought.  You could look at next season without Henry two ways.  One would be to say "we're losing our best player."  The other would be to say "we're returning 78% of our scoring and 74% of our rebounding."

Returning production is the greatest indicator for improvement season to season. This is why I am so optimistic about next season, even if Henry goes.

[MerrittsMustache]

I totally get it goose.  It was a bumpy ride down from hanging that BEast banner 2+ years ago.  You been to any games lately?  The BC is a morgue with student attendance reflecting what folks think these days.  I swear that at that Providence double OT there wasn't 500 kids in attendance at the very peak.  Feels very much like going to the Allstate to watch a DePaul game.  It's something I don't think our far flung brothers on here quite get.  (No student bashing allowed or intended.  Just the cold hard facts about the state of the program at this very moment.)  Hopefully things get better soon.

It's not as bad as you're making it out to be. The crowds are down a bit, yes, but to compare it to a DePaul game is an exaggeration. There are fans there but, quite frankly, there hasn't been a whole lot to cheer about. MU is just 11-6 at home, 3-4 in conf. They either beat up on no-names or get beat by conference opponents. Attendance is also hurt by the fact that most of the big marquee Big East teams are gone. Xavier, Butler and Creighton simply don't have the same mass appeal as Notre Dame, Louisville and Syracuse. Those opponents will drawn even if MU is having a down year. If MU wants to draw big, loud crowds, it's basically all on the program to win.

[jsheim]

PTM

.... I want to be Duke, Kansas, Kentucky all rolled into one. I grew up looking at Xavier and Dayton as joke programs ...

I guess I want that too...but if that becomes an expectation, you spend your whole life as a fan angry at your team, the coach, the administration....the cheerleaders are even too ugly...

But that's no way to be a fan....sure I hate it when someone chucks up a stupid three (for the third time in a row)...or a 30sec clock violation...or another 20 turnover game.

I think you got to keep hoping...and don't have goals that always generate "blame" for someone.

"I want to be Duke, Kansas, Kentucky all rolled into one." - yeah, I want that too but that's not my measure as a fan.

Personally I hope on an NCAA tourney bid in the regular season...when that's out-of-sight I look to a miracle in the BET. next loss and the regular season is shot wrt the Tourney...BET miracle is possible.

If I were a DePaul fan, at the start of the season, I would probably be hoping on a 500 season in the BE and a BET miracle as well.

For the Bucks I am looking for Giannis to consistently hit jumpers and somehow they reach 500...or at least a 5 game win streak. All unexpected but something to look forward too.

[Goose]

Merritt

I agree with you on the marquee BE teams being gone and replaced by perennial MU cupcakes. That is the exact reason why I was not jacked up about the new BE and felt taking time to select the right teams made more sense than picking the "obvious" teams. All part of the big problem IMO. Our conference is fine overall but lacks sex appeal with marquee teams. Add to the mix a NC schedule that is embarrassing.

jsglow

I was Butler and Providence game and was shocked by student section. Felt badly for Wojo handing out donuts to small crowd at Butler game and at tipoff at Providence there were not 100 students there. I think the lack of student excitement is becoming a major negative for the program.

[🏀]

Maybe I don't see it as bad considering my time in school, but 03-05 were much worse than this. I don't remember a collective pants-pooping on Scoop back then.

[tower912]

Maybe I don't see it as bad considering my time in school, but 03-05 were much worse than this. I don't remember a collective pants-pooping on Scoop back then.

Scoop didn't exist then.    I do remember Chicos defending Crean's honor with every fiber of his being on the jsonline site. 

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

...we did lose to DePaul on our home court not too long ago...

Marquette hasn't been beaten by DePaul twice in a single season since 1991.

[🏀]

Scoop didn't exist then.    I do remember Chicos defending Crean's honor with every fiber of his being on the jsonline site. 

Rivals, I meant Rivals.