Hey at least we aren't DePaul

[BM1090]

They beat Iowa. How'd that turn out for us?

They lost to Xavier by 30. We played them tough twice.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

They lost to Xavier by 30. We played them tough twice.

Doesn't comparing loss margins make us more like DePaul

[Goose]

jsheim

Respect your opinion, yet do not share it. Many of us on here lived through being the 2nd best program for a decade and have experienced every up and down since. If the goal of the university is not for the program to be elite I have little interest in supporting it. I have ZERO knowledge that is the case but by my eye test they are closer to Dayton than elite.

Please note---I am using Dayton for my whipping boy rather than SLU. In honor of Rick on his bday Dayton is my new program I do not want to become.

[BM1090]

Doesn't comparing loss margins make us more like DePaul

Yes. Just was trying to point out the idiocy of his argument.

[WarriorPride68]

Rivals, I meant Rivals.

Marquette has a rivals site / message board?

[🏀]

Marquette has a rivals site / message board?

There was. The start of Scoop pretty much killed it off.

[GGGG]

jsheim

Respect your opinion, yet do not share it. Many of us on here lived through being the 2nd best program for a decade and have experienced every up and down since. If the goal of the university is not for the program to be elite I have little interest in supporting it. I have ZERO knowledge that is the case but by my eye test they are closer to Dayton than elite.

While that might be the goal of the University, the chances of that goal being obtained is not very likely.

[jsglow]

While that might be the goal of the University, the chances of that goal being obtained is not very likely.

What is fair to consider is whether the university is getting appropriate bang for the buck, however.  We spend many, many millions funding like an elite.  Can't believe sitting in 8th long term would be considered acceptable.  Not saying we'll stay there but on 2/17/16 the economics aren't working.  Let's hope that's temporary.  Very temporary.

[WarriorPride68]

There was. The start of Scoop pretty much killed it off.

Thatta boy scoop is Dodds a pay site?

[Goose]

jsglow


You and Chick know more about the behind scenes things than anyone out here. From my arm's length perspective I am not so sure they get it quite yet. No offense to Lovell, but all of this might be bigger than his skill set. He seems to be making solid moves in general and might not have his eye on the ball when comes to hoops.

While I still talk MU ball with people, both long time fans to current MU students, I do not think I have ever felt a more blah vibe about MU ball since the Dukiet era. The difference with Dukiet era was there was rage because it was still close enough time wise to Al's run. Since Buzz's last season, which I still believe he tanked, there has been little to cheer about. Hope the school is watching and realizes how important MU basketball is to the overall university.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

jsglow


You and Chick know more about the behind scenes things than anyone out here. From my arm's length perspective I am not so sure they get it quite yet. No offense to Lovell, but all of this might be bigger than his skill set. He seems to be making solid moves in general and might not have his eye on the ball when comes to hoops.

While I still talk MU ball with people, both long time fans to current MU students, I do not think I have ever felt a more blah vibe about MU ball since the Dukiet era. The difference with Dukiet era was there was rage because it was still close enough time wise to Al's run. Since Buzz's last season, which I still believe he tanked, there has been little to cheer about. Hope the school is watching and realizes how important MU basketball is to the overall university.

In my opinion, we are reaping the benefits of a very poor transition from Wild to Whats His Name.  From what I have seen at alumni events on the east coast, at least early on, Lovell gets it.  I just hope things turn soon and the urgency & commitment to succeed continues. 

[MerrittsMustache]

jsglow


You and Chick know more about the behind scenes things than anyone out here. From my arm's length perspective I am not so sure they get it quite yet. No offense to Lovell, but all of this might be bigger than his skill set. He seems to be making solid moves in general and might not have his eye on the ball when comes to hoops.

While I still talk MU ball with people, both long time fans to current MU students, I do not think I have ever felt a more blah vibe about MU ball since the Dukiet era. The difference with Dukiet era was there was rage because it was still close enough time wise to Al's run. Since Buzz's last season, which I still believe he tanked, there has been little to cheer about. Hope the school is watching and realizes how important MU basketball is to the overall university.

Disagree. I think Lovell and the administration are looking more long-term/big picture. MU may have a handful of NIT-caliber seasons, but they're going to let Wojo build his program into what they believe will be a perennial tournament team and Big East contender.

Also, there's not a chance in the world that Buzz tanked a season.

[tower912]

Goose, I do not believe Buzz tanked a season.   I believe that the combination of Otule staying (ultimately causing McKay to leave) and Vander leaving left an unbalanced roster devoid of experienced playmakers.  Combine disappointment with his team with a perceived lack of support from administration and voila, VT.    I also think that MU believes the basketball program has a plan in place for the long term, that Wojo will be here for a decade and during that time MU will return to national relevance.    I hope they are proven right.    But I do not believe for a second believe that MU is deliberately choosing mediocrity.   

[Goose]

Merritt and Tower

I 100% believe Buzz would have "left" a year earlier but reaching E8 made it too late in the process. He was a lame duck, and a bitter one, during his last season.

[Lennys Tap]

When we talk about the strength of programs, that goes beyond the won/loss record in any given year.  Or even over a small stretch of years.

Xavier has done a fantastic job of building their program from the joke status of forty years ago to where they are now.  They have committed resources and hired a run of great coaches.  (Gillen/Prosser/Matta/Miller/Mack)  But they aren't "light years" ahead of Marquette as a program.  Sure they have been better on court the last couple of years, but Marquette devotes plenty of resources toward basketball.  This is just a short-term speed bump more than it is some sort of Dukiet-like end to the program.

Guess it depends what you mean by "light years" and what you consider the last "couple of years". We were roughly Xavier's equal during the Buzz era but they've been substantially better in the short, medium and long term other than that. Since 2000, X has made the NCAA tournament 14 of 16 times and has 17 tournament wins (and counting). We're 10 for 16 and stuck on 13 wins. Between 1985 and 2000 they made 10 of 15 tournaments and won 6 games. We made it 4 of 15 and won 3 games. So in the last 31 years they've gone to the tourney 10 more times than us and won 7 more games.

[MerrittsMustache]

Merritt and Tower

I 100% believe Buzz would have "left" a year earlier but reaching E8 made it too late in the process. He was a lame duck, and a bitter one, during his last season.

Where would he have gone after that season? UCLA? Texas Tech? USC? MU's season ended on March 30. All of those teams filled their vacancies on April 1. If any of them wanted Buzz, they would have waited a couple more days.

[Goose]

He ended up going VA Tech with a pay cut. He stayed because MU needed him to stay and not because he wanted to stay. This has been rehashed a thousand times over past couple of years.

[Shaka Shart]

Yes. Just was trying to point out the idiocy of his argument.

My point was about a win over a team that blew us out as bad X did to them. Wins and losses are absolute. You are the one who brought up loss margin.

You claimed to prove me wrong with a metric you admitted was stupid.

[BM1090]

My point was about a win over a team that blew us out as bad X did to them. Wins and losses are absolute. You are the one who brought up loss margin.

You claimed to prove me wrong with a metric you admitted was stupid.

I'm not trying to claim anything. Transitive property doesn't work in any sport, and definitely not college basketball.

Hell, it doesn't even matter if you beat someone. We beat UW on the road, Providence twice, and LSU. I don't think we're better than any of those teams. And DePaul sure as hell isn't better than us.

[Marqevans]

Won't we be DePaul if we lose to DePaul on Saturday?

[brewcity77]

Won't we be DePaul if we lose to DePaul on Saturday?

Yup, just like Highlander.

[jsglow]

jsglow


You and Chick know more about the behind scenes things than anyone out here. From my arm's length perspective I am not so sure they get it quite yet. No offense to Lovell, but all of this might be bigger than his skill set. He seems to be making solid moves in general and might not have his eye on the ball when comes to hoops.

While I still talk MU ball with people, both long time fans to current MU students, I do not think I have ever felt a more blah vibe about MU ball since the Dukiet era. The difference with Dukiet era was there was rage because it was still close enough time wise to Al's run. Since Buzz's last season, which I still believe he tanked, there has been little to cheer about. Hope the school is watching and realizes how important MU basketball is to the overall university.

Very kind of you goose.  I'm not sure our access is any better than some but we certainly do serve on a few committees, meet and talk to people, and keep our eyes open.  I must say our access is mostly non-athletic in nature.  No doubt folks like BD have much better athletic access.

Here's what I will say.  I think it's a mistake to either underestimate Dr. Lovell or think that he's not committed to basketball.  Lovell approaches the job much differently than Fr. Wild did.  Unlike Wild, Lovell is not a comfortable, personable conversationalist and fundraiser.  I think we all would admit that Fr. Wild has a unique ability to make every person he interacts with feel like the most important person on earth.  In contrast, Lovell approaches the job like the engineer he is.  His great gift is unlimited energy and an ability to drive the herd in a way not seen before.  Working directly for him would wear me out in 6 months.  But using that approach tons can be accomplished.

In many ways, Lovell and Wojo are very similar.  Both seem to be tireless workers committed to a vision for how a university and/or a basketball program ought to be run.  Now it's fair to say that not everyone agrees 100% with Lovell's direction which seems to be greater collaboration and direct community involvement (think of the Athletic Health project, Avenues West, and the freshwater project) possibly at the expense of other more traditional goals.  As for basketball, Wojo clearly has a path in mind that he intends to follow.  I guess time will tell with both. 

[GooooMarquette]

Won't we be DePaul if we lose to DePaul on Saturday?

We beat Providence twice.  Does that make us Providence?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

We beat Providence twice.  Are we Providence?

45 out of 50 years I would take that as an insult too.

[GooooMarquette]

45 out of 50 years I would take that as an insult too.

I'm talking this year.