Vander Does Well In D League All Star Game

[GGGG]

Buddy Hield...where was he projected in last year's mock draft?   

Buddy Hield....where is he projected in this year's draft?   Lottery


Is Vander equal to Hield?  No, but the point is that there are endless examples of guys coming back to vastly improve their chances.

I hope like hell Vander makes it. He clearly is passioned about it and works his tail off.  The frustrating part for me is that he got bad advice.  I know for a fact that Buzz Williams was absolutely DUMBFOUNDED at his decision.  DUMBFOUNDED.   He had his mind made up and was looking for one person in the league to confirm it for him and it didn't matter if 99 were saying you would be better off staying another year.   The frustration is that the kid would be living his dream if he had better advice and more maturity at the time.  The path was so much easier, but he made a different decision.

Hopefully he gets there at some point, and maybe the longer journey will serve him well in life as a result.  It certainly can, and that would be a nice story book finish plus a silver lining to all of it.  I wish him well. 

Vander's lack of sticking with an NBA team since leaving Marquette, despite his improvement, shows that he isn't an NBA product.  Staying at Marquette wouldn't have changed that.

That doesn't mean he SHOULD have left.  Buzz was right to be dumbfounded.  But you can't just say "from a NBA basketball perspective, Vander would have been better to stay."  Because I don't think that's the case. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I agree with you that staying would have been beneficial - particularly to focus on a degree (my opinion). 

I just think acting like it was some sort of lock if he played in an MU jersey for one more year is unfounded.  Only a small percent of all BBall players are drafted in round 1 - to act like playing 30 more bball games in college was the difference between him being there or not doesn't seem credible.

Is Vander equal to Hield?  No, but the point is that there are endless examples of guys coming back to vastly improve their chances.

I hope like hell Vander makes it. He clearly is passioned about it and works his tail off.  The frustrating part for me is that he got bad advice.  I know for a fact that Buzz Williams was absolutely DUMBFOUNDED at his decision.  DUMBFOUNDED.   He had his mind made up and was looking for one person in the league to confirm it for him and it didn't matter if 99 were saying you would be better off staying another year.   The frustration is that the kid would be living his dream if he had better advice and more maturity at the time.  The path was so much easier, but he made a different decision.

Hopefully he gets there at some point, and maybe the longer journey will serve him well in life as a result.  It certainly can, and that would be a nice story book finish plus a silver lining to all of it.  I wish him well. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Buddy Hield...where was he projected in last year's mock draft?   

Buddy Hield....where is he projected in this year's draft?   Lottery


Is Vander equal to Hield?  No, but the point is that there are endless examples of guys coming back to vastly improve their chances.

I hope like hell Vander makes it. He clearly is passioned about it and works his tail off.  The frustrating part for me is that he got bad advice.  I know for a fact that Buzz Williams was absolutely DUMBFOUNDED at his decision.  DUMBFOUNDED.   He had his mind made up and was looking for one person in the league to confirm it for him and it didn't matter if 99 were saying you would be better off staying another year.   The frustration is that the kid would be living his dream if he had better advice and more maturity at the time.  The path was so much easier, but he made a different decision.

Hopefully he gets there at some point, and maybe the longer journey will serve him well in life as a result.  It certainly can, and that would be a nice story book finish plus a silver lining to all of it.  I wish him well.

And if Wade had come back to MU for another season in order to work on his 3-point shooting, he would have led MU to a National Title in 2004, been drafted #3 overall by the Bulls and we'd be sitting here in awe of the Bulls dynasty led by Wade, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry and, of course, future HOF coach Scott Skiles.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Vander's lack of sticking with an NBA team since leaving Marquette, despite his improvement, shows that he isn't an NBA product.  Staying at Marquette wouldn't have changed that.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I can think of a ton of examples of college players on the fringe of getting drafted who came back for another year and were then drafted and stuck in the NBA. I can't think of many...or even any examples of guys who went undrafted, went to the d league, got called up, and then stuck in the NBA. Honestly, the D-League seems more like limbo than a path to the NBA. I think players who go overseas have a better chance of finding their way to the league.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Vander's lack of sticking with an NBA team since leaving Marquette, despite his improvement, shows that he isn't an NBA product.  Staying at Marquette wouldn't have changed that.

That doesn't mean he SHOULD have left.  Buzz was right to be dumbfounded.  But you can't just say "from a NBA basketball perspective, Vander would have been better to stay."  Because I don't think that's the case.

Disagree.  When you are drafted, your stick rate chance improves.  Your foot is in the door, so to speak.  Your path is much harder if you aren't drafted.  There are exceptions...Wes Matthews being one.  But if someone has taken a chance on you, and invested $$$, it is harder to cut bait.  Same is true in the NFL and other sports.  The willingness to go through multiple chances and opportunities are better, because SOMEONE took a chance on them, invested money in them.

Buzz was dumbfounded, as he should have been.

[GGGG]

Disagree.  When you are drafted, your stick rate chance improves.  Your foot is in the door, so to speak.  Your path is much harder if you aren't drafted.  There are exceptions...Wes Matthews being one.  But if someone has taken a chance on you, and invested $$$, it is harder to cut bait.  Same is true in the NFL and other sports.  The willingness to go through multiple chances and opportunities are better, because SOMEONE took a chance on them, invested money in them.

You are again making the assumption that he would have been drafted. 

Many assumptions in your analysis.  The fact that Vander still sits in the D-League pretty much shows that your assumptions are misguided.

[GGGG]

I don't think that's necessarily true. I can think of a ton of examples of college players on the fringe of getting drafted who came back for another year and were then drafted and stuck in the NBA. I can't think of many...or even any examples of guys who went undrafted, went to the d league, got called up, and then stuck in the NBA. Honestly, the D-League seems more like limbo than a path to the NBA. I think players who go overseas have a better chance of finding their way to the league.

I agree with you.  Just don't make the assumption that Vander would have been drafted.  There is no reason to suggest that would have been the case despite what Chicos says he was told.

Vander wasn't an NBA talent when he came out.  He wouldn't have been NBA talent a year later.  He's not NBA talent now.

[tower912]

If Vander had come back, had played the point his senior year, played it well, increased his numbers, shown everyone he could run the point at a high level, led MU to an NCAA tourney bid, put the team on his back, a la Kemba Walker (if you are going to play 'what-if', do it big), he would have gotten drafted.    IMO, he would have played 35 mpg at the point.   If he could have done it reasonably well, (18/7/5)  MU makes the tourney and he gets drafted.   But it is nothing but speculation at this point. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Different sport, but a good friend of mine that was in the Angels organization when I worked there and is now with the Rangers.  His comments to me over the years have been around incumbancy, his terminology.  When an organization invests a draft choice and money, they don't do so on a whim.  They do it after extensive background, analysis, data, interviews, etc.   So if that player doesn't work out for an organization, other organizations will look to those players FIRST before they look at undrafted guys.  Partly because the work has been done....someone made the investment after money and time spent.  Someone thought something of him to go through more than just lip service motions, but to actually invest.   

That is why so many guys are recirculated from organization to organization if they are drafted and committed to.  They get more chances to fail, as it were.  Again, exceptions to every rule out there, but this is where I think Vander didn't get good advice.

As for Vander being better now because he didn't play his senior year...I just don't get that logic at all.  If he played his senior year and got drafted, he would also be getting better.  If he played his senior year and didn't get drafted, he would still be doing what he is doing today, playing somewhere and the improvement that comes along with it.

[MerrittsMustache]

If Vander had come back, had played the point his senior year, played it well, increased his numbers, shown everyone he could run the point at a high level, led MU to an NCAA tourney bid, put the team on his back, a la Kemba Walker (if you are going to play 'what-if', do it big), he would have gotten drafted.    IMO, he would have played 35 mpg at the point.  If he could have done it reasonably well, (18/7/5)  MU makes the tourney and he gets drafted.   But it is nothing but speculation at this point.

If 18/7/5 is "reasonably well," I'd like to see what numbers would impress you 

Is Blue playing PG in the D-League?

[mileskishnish72]

Born in MKE? Didn't know that - thanks, House.
Native or not, I hope the kid gets a chance to chase the dream.

[GB Warrior]

Love Vander and wish the best for him, but if it hasn't happened by now, it'd be wise of him to cut and head for greener pastures overseas while he's in his prime. At some point, you are who you are.

When is the last time someone sat and succeeded in D-League for years on end before jumping and becoming a regular contributor in the bigs? (NOTE: This is an honest question because I am lazy).

[BM1090]

Love Vander and wish the best for him, but if it hasn't happened by now, it'd be wise of him to cut and head for greener pastures overseas while he's in his prime. At some point, you are who you are.

When is the last time someone sat and succeeded in D-League for years on end before jumping and becoming a regular contributor in the bigs? (NOTE: This is an honest question because I am lazy).

No idea on your question, but I wouldn't bail quite yet if I were Vander. He's only 23. He doesn't turn 25 until the summer of 2017. He should give it through next year then he still has 10 more years to make money in Europe if it hasn't worked out by then.

[MerrittsMustache]

When is the last time someone sat and succeeded in D-League for years on end before jumping and becoming a regular contributor in the bigs? (NOTE: This is an honest question because I am lazy).

I don't know if there's anyone who played in the D-League "for years on end" before becoming a contributor in the NBA but here are a few guys who spent more than one season in the D-League and went on to play multiple seasons in the NBA...

Kelenna Azubuike
Jamario Moon
Smush Parker
Ime Udoka
Jeremy Lin
Danny Green

[The Lens]

Different sport, but a good friend of mine that was in the Angels organization when I worked there and is now with the Rangers. His comments to me over the years have been around incumbancy, his terminology.  When an organization invests a draft choice and money, they don't do so on a whim.  They do it after extensive background, analysis, data, interviews, etc.   So if that player doesn't work out for an organization, other organizations will look to those players FIRST before they look at undrafted guys.  Partly because the work has been done....someone made the investment after money and time spent.  Someone thought something of him to go through more than just lip service motions, but to actually invest.   

That is why so many guys are recirculated from organization to organization if they are drafted and committed to.  They get more chances to fail, as it were. 

I can see that.  You are correct in the many drafted players get multiple chances.  Look at Michael Beasley. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I can see that.  You are correct in the many drafted players get multiple chances.  Look at Michael Beasley. 

Michael Beasley didn't get multiple chances because he was 'drafted' or an 'incumbent'.  He received multiple chances and was drafted because he had an insane amount of talent and potential that was wasted by a personal issue.  This is probably more-so the cause for multiple chances in the example above than some arbitrary draft position.

[MerrittsMustache]

Michael Beasley didn't get multiple chances because he was 'drafted' or an 'incumbent'.  He received multiple chances and was drafted because he had an insane amount of talent and potential that was wasted by a personal issue.  This is probably more-so the case in the example above than some arbitrary draft position.

Exactly.

Most players taken at the top of the draft are taken there based on talent and potential. Henry, for example, has both of those things, plus he's nearly 7-feet tall and appears to have his head on straight. Even if he goes #5 and is a bust, he's still likely to be on an NBA roster for a decade and it's not because his drafting team "invested in him." If Vander had been drafted, he'd likely still be in the D-League because, quite frankly, he's not currently an NBA-caliber player.

[Lennys Tap]

Michael Beasley didn't get multiple chances because he was 'drafted' or an 'incumbent'.  He received multiple chances and was drafted because he had an insane amount of talent and potential that was wasted by a personal issue.  This is probably more-so the cause for multiple chances in the example above than some arbitrary draft position.

Michael Beasley became a legend when he dropped 50 on us in a preseason scrimmage that destroyed our seed in the NCAA tournament! If that doesn't earn you multiple chances in the NBA, nothing will.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I can see that.  You are correct in the many drafted players get multiple chances.  Look at Michael Beasley.

It's kind of a group think mentality, but in that profession of scouts if someone's willing to throw coin down, there is this presumption that it was worth doing.  Of course we can all name examples of players that got bounced around 10 times and makes that analysis look really bad.  Ryan Leaf.