The State of Our Program After Depaul

[muwarrior69]

We have no outside shooters...and that is the state of our program.

[Loose Cannon]

  The fact that Wojo TRIED to get a juco but COULND'T is almost worse than if he hadn't tried at all.  It's not like we didn't have the resources to bring one in.

Are you sure you want to stick with this logic.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I think there are plenty of fan bases this season over reacting to losses. Heck, both Duke and MI State are on 3 game losing streaks. This is from a related article

Chaos is the only certainty in college basketball this season
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/the-only-certainty-in-college-basketball-this-season-is-chaos-170222762.html

There are a handful of factors that have contributed to the lack of a dominant team this season, but one of the biggest is that many of this year's elite freshmen did not cluster at traditional powers.

Likely No. 1 overall draft pick Ben Simmons chose to play at LSU, where his godfather is an assistant coach. Potential lottery pick Henry Ellenson selected Marquette, where his brother also plays. Stephen Zimmerman stayed close to home at UNLV, Malik Newman chose his dad's alma mater Mississippi State and Jaylen Brown followed close friend and fellow McDonald's All-American Ivan Rabb to Cal.

The overall weakness of this year's freshman class also has played a role. Many of the freshman who did select name-brand programs have struggled with the transition to the college game and have not performed to expectations.

Brandon Ingram has been sensational for Duke, but the Blue Devils still lack a traditional point guard or any semblance of interior depth because Derryck Thornton hasn't been reliable and Chase Jeter has fallen out of the rotation altogether.

Freshman guards Jamal Murray and Isaiah Briscoe have both scored in bursts at Kentucky, but highly touted big man Skal Labissiere has been a major disappointment.

And while Kansas has performed better than either the Blue Devils or Wildcats, the Jayhawks can't reach their ceiling unless decorated big man Cheick Diallo gains Bill Self's trust and begins to make an impact.

The other force at play in producing parity is that just about every prospect who could have turned pro last spring did so. Seven underclassmen from Kentucky's 38-1 team bolted for the NBA, as did the three Duke freshmen that spearheaded its title run. Fellow elite teams Wisconsin, Arizona, Virginia and Louisville were also hurt by defections.

The two best NBA prospects who did opt to stay in school last spring both play for fringe contenders. Providence and Utah would both probably be rebuilding this season if point guard Kris Dunn and center Jakob Poeltl had decided to turn pro.

There was a time when the elite programs had the depth to overcome NBA defections or disappointing freshman classes, but the transfer craze has made that more difficult now. Players who don't receive extended minutes as freshmen often leave rather than stay patient on the bench until their junior or senior seasons.

The result is a season in which the unexpected has become the norm.

UCLA loses to Monmouth but beats Kentucky? Makes perfect sense. Northern Iowa topples North Carolina and Iowa State but starts 2-4 in Missouri Valley play? Why not.

[Goose]

Like many on here I have been a fan for over 40 years and big part of my sports enjoyment. My Dad always called MU ball is winter therapy and as I get older I think MU ball is going to force me into therapy. Had high hopes, a tad unrealistic, and close to throwing in the towel on another season. If not for visiting Scoop the towel may have been thrown in already.

[WarriorPride68]

Had high hopes, a tad unrealistic, and close to throwing in the towel on another season.

Pomeroy had MU #5 in Big East (projected 9-9)

Sports Illustrated had MU #5 in Big East (projected 10-8)

Even people outside of Milwaukee had expectations. That's why this year is looking to be so painful. Other than the Johnnies & Stetson, will likely be dogs in the remaining games

[MomofMUltiples]

Just had to poke my head in to check the state of the Scoop meltdown.  Looks like it's pretty much complete.  This is merely one of those losses when we expected to win.  That means we still get some wins when we are expected to lose, right, Tower?  After every "bad" loss this team has pulled together and pulled out unexpected wins (LSU, Wisconsin, Providence).  They will eventually become more cohesive and consistent.  Might take until the BEast tourney to get there.  Now, excuse me while I take off my hazmat suit and wait a couple more days for the fallout to diminish.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The old process (fill holes with Jucos and transfers who are ready) worked better than the new process  (wait and hope that players who aren't ready become ready someday) does.

Idk....the new process worked pretty well for Al....so maybe its the old process?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We have no outside shooters...and that is the state of our program.

I dont think thats true. Were shooting 34% from deep. Thats not good but not bad either. Team rebounding, turnovers, and lack of a complete PG are bigger problems IMHO

[Lennys Tap]

Idk....the new process worked pretty well for Al....so maybe its the old process?

Wrong. Al filled holes with transfers and Jucos often. On the national championship team the starting center was a Juco and the starting point guard a transfer. And most of his stars from high school were stars from their first day of eligibility at MU.

[dgies9156]

Wrong. Al filled holes with transfers and Jucos often. On the national championship team the starting center was a Juco and the starting point guard a transfer. And most of his stars from high school were stars from their first day of eligibility at MU.

Lenny, not entirely. First, you are correct that Jerome Whitehead was a Juco stash and Jim Boylan was a transfer. Secondly, other famous JUCOs at Marquette included Bob Lackey (one of my favorite Warriors ever!) and I think Ric Cobb. They were out there from time to time.

Our stars were highly regarded recruits but were not stars from Day 1. It was Al who said, "The best thing about freshmen was they become sophomores." It was also said by Al that "my seniors are my stars." I won't argue that after the early 1970s when freshmen became varsity eligible, some of our guys started from Day 1. My memory is a little faded but I want to say that in the Al era, there were more than a few superstars who had plenty of pine time their freshmen year. Al's teams were so good that he used upper classmen whenever he could. He let his freshmen work in as game situations permitted.

[willie warrior]

How so?  If he is fired the school still owes him that money.  Now if he were to leave, then sure symbolic only, although at this point I don't see a lot of schools beating down the door to take him away.

Exactly. That is sure something that Tonto does not get. If you cut bait and owe 5 million, that sure as hell means something. Unless you have an unlimited bankroll.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny, not entirely. First, you are correct that Jerome Whitehead was a Juco stash and Jim Boylan was a transfer. Secondly, other famous JUCOs at Marquette included Bob Lackey (one of my favorite Warriors ever!) and I think Ric Cobb. They were out there from time to time.

Our stars were highly regarded recruits but were not stars from Day 1. It was Al who said, "The best thing about freshmen was they become sophomores." It was also said by Al that "my seniors are my stars." I won't argue that after the early 1970s when freshmen became varsity eligible, some of our guys started from Day 1. My memory is a little faded but I want to say that in the Al era, there were more than a few superstars who had plenty of pine time their freshmen year. Al's teams were so good that he used upper classmen whenever he could. He let his freshmen work in as game situations permitted.

George Thompson, Dean Meminger and Jim Chones played when freshmen were ineligible, but all three started and were stars as sophomores and, if eligible, would have started and been stars as freshmen. Bo Ellis started and starred as a freshman, Butch Lee started but didn't star.

[Earl Tatum]

Don't forget Maurice Lucas

[Lennys Tap]

Don't forget Maurice Lucas

Yep

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Wojo and staff need to figure out how to counter the defenses that are thrown at them. They've been scouted now and teams know how to handle our strengths and tendencies. I keep looking for HE to sit at the top of the key and dish, drive or shoot.

[MU82]

I think there are plenty of fan bases this season over reacting to losses. Heck, both Duke and MI State are on 3 game losing streaks. This is from a related article

Chaos is the only certainty in college basketball this season
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/the-only-certainty-in-college-basketball-this-season-is-chaos-170222762.html

There are a handful of factors that have contributed to the lack of a dominant team this season, but one of the biggest is that many of this year's elite freshmen did not cluster at traditional powers.

Likely No. 1 overall draft pick Ben Simmons chose to play at LSU, where his godfather is an assistant coach. Potential lottery pick Henry Ellenson selected Marquette, where his brother also plays. Stephen Zimmerman stayed close to home at UNLV, Malik Newman chose his dad's alma mater Mississippi State and Jaylen Brown followed close friend and fellow McDonald's All-American Ivan Rabb to Cal.

The overall weakness of this year's freshman class also has played a role. Many of the freshman who did select name-brand programs have struggled with the transition to the college game and have not performed to expectations.

Brandon Ingram has been sensational for Duke, but the Blue Devils still lack a traditional point guard or any semblance of interior depth because Derryck Thornton hasn't been reliable and Chase Jeter has fallen out of the rotation altogether.

Freshman guards Jamal Murray and Isaiah Briscoe have both scored in bursts at Kentucky, but highly touted big man Skal Labissiere has been a major disappointment.

And while Kansas has performed better than either the Blue Devils or Wildcats, the Jayhawks can't reach their ceiling unless decorated big man Cheick Diallo gains Bill Self's trust and begins to make an impact.

The other force at play in producing parity is that just about every prospect who could have turned pro last spring did so. Seven underclassmen from Kentucky's 38-1 team bolted for the NBA, as did the three Duke freshmen that spearheaded its title run. Fellow elite teams Wisconsin, Arizona, Virginia and Louisville were also hurt by defections.

The two best NBA prospects who did opt to stay in school last spring both play for fringe contenders. Providence and Utah would both probably be rebuilding this season if point guard Kris Dunn and center Jakob Poeltl had decided to turn pro.

There was a time when the elite programs had the depth to overcome NBA defections or disappointing freshman classes, but the transfer craze has made that more difficult now. Players who don't receive extended minutes as freshmen often leave rather than stay patient on the bench until their junior or senior seasons.

The result is a season in which the unexpected has become the norm.

UCLA loses to Monmouth but beats Kentucky? Makes perfect sense. Northern Iowa topples North Carolina and Iowa State but starts 2-4 in Missouri Valley play? Why not.

Excellent article. Thanks for sharing.

[tower912]

The State of Our Program After DePaul......  It's still in Wisconsin, right?

[bilsu]

In 7 Big East games only we are only better than our opponents in two statistical catagories and they are almost the same thing. We have 58 steals to their 50 and 106 turnovers to their 109. We are being out rebounded 222-267, shoot significanly less than 30% from three and less than 70% from the free throw line. Those are not encouraging numbers.

[jesmu84]

In 7 Big East games only we are only better than our opponents in two statistical catagories and they are almost the same thing. We have 58 steals to their 50 and 106 turnovers to their 109. We are being out rebounded 222-267, shoot significanly less than 30% from three and less than 70% from the free throw line. Those are not encouraging numbers.

nm

[Herman Cain]

nm

They are meaningful.

[jesmu84]

They are meaningful.

nm = "no message". As in, I typed a response, then removed it. But the post will still exist.

[WarriorFan]

The state of our program is 12-7 with a lot of basketball left to play.
Live in the present, work for the future.

Forget the past!

[Herman Cain]

nm = "no message". As in, I typed a response, then removed it. But the post will still exist.

ok

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think there are plenty of fan bases this season over reacting to losses. Heck, both Duke and MI State are on 3 game losing streaks. This is from a related article

Chaos is the only certainty in college basketball this season
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/the-only-certainty-in-college-basketball-this-season-is-chaos-170222762.html

There are a handful of factors that have contributed to the lack of a dominant team this season, but one of the biggest is that many of this year's elite freshmen did not cluster at traditional powers.

Likely No. 1 overall draft pick Ben Simmons chose to play at LSU, where his godfather is an assistant coach. Potential lottery pick Henry Ellenson selected Marquette, where his brother also plays. Stephen Zimmerman stayed close to home at UNLV, Malik Newman chose his dad's alma mater Mississippi State and Jaylen Brown followed close friend and fellow McDonald's All-American Ivan Rabb to Cal.

The overall weakness of this year's freshman class also has played a role. Many of the freshman who did select name-brand programs have struggled with the transition to the college game and have not performed to expectations.

Brandon Ingram has been sensational for Duke, but the Blue Devils still lack a traditional point guard or any semblance of interior depth because Derryck Thornton hasn't been reliable and Chase Jeter has fallen out of the rotation altogether.

Freshman guards Jamal Murray and Isaiah Briscoe have both scored in bursts at Kentucky, but highly touted big man Skal Labissiere has been a major disappointment.

And while Kansas has performed better than either the Blue Devils or Wildcats, the Jayhawks can't reach their ceiling unless decorated big man Cheick Diallo gains Bill Self's trust and begins to make an impact.

The other force at play in producing parity is that just about every prospect who could have turned pro last spring did so. Seven underclassmen from Kentucky's 38-1 team bolted for the NBA, as did the three Duke freshmen that spearheaded its title run. Fellow elite teams Wisconsin, Arizona, Virginia and Louisville were also hurt by defections.

The two best NBA prospects who did opt to stay in school last spring both play for fringe contenders. Providence and Utah would both probably be rebuilding this season if point guard Kris Dunn and center Jakob Poeltl had decided to turn pro.

There was a time when the elite programs had the depth to overcome NBA defections or disappointing freshman classes, but the transfer craze has made that more difficult now. Players who don't receive extended minutes as freshmen often leave rather than stay patient on the bench until their junior or senior seasons.

The result is a season in which the unexpected has become the norm.

UCLA loses to Monmouth but beats Kentucky? Makes perfect sense. Northern Iowa topples North Carolina and Iowa State but starts 2-4 in Missouri Valley play? Why not.

It's a crapshoot baby.  On any given night.   

[dgies9156]

George Thompson, Dean Meminger and Jim Chones played when freshmen were ineligible, but all three started and were stars as sophomores and, if eligible, would have started and been stars as freshmen. Bo Ellis started and starred as a freshman, Butch Lee started but didn't star.

But those guys all were far better than anything we have now. Chones might have been a one and done today. All were incredible and while they started, not sure they starred as freshmen.