The Force Awakens *Possible Spoilers*

[ChicosBailBonds]

Plus I'm still annoyed after 40 years the Empire/First Order haven't developed a secret "press with your tongue in case you are taken hostage so we can stop them" button that sends out a distress signal.  What's the point of having an internal/integrated comm system in your armor if you can't use it to keep yourself from lowering the critical shield system because they pointed a gun at you.

For that matter, I'm amazed Storm Troopers wear any armor...doesn't stop any lasers...what's the point?   

[jficke13]

1. Maybe Luke is just following in the footsteps of Obi Wan and Yoda's teaching: When apprentice goes darkside, you must go hermit.

2. The thing that bugged me is why the Republic needs to prop up a Resistance to fight the First Order. Shouldn't the Republic have it's own fleet (I feel like they say something like "Without the Republic's fleet we're toast!)? That's the thing that doesn't track, at all, especially when the Resistance's fleet appears to consist of a few squadrons of X-Wings and that's it.

3. Either Finn has to have some kind of force affinity (sure picked up being a gunner quickly) or the lightsaber improvisation doesn't make a lot of sense for him either.

4. All told, I'll forgive them some plot holes as long as the overall movie is good, and it was.

5. Harrison Ford was great. His comedic timing with Chewy was great.

6. John Williams can still bring it.

7. I'd give it a 7. Darn entertaining, but not life-altering.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Acting was really good overall. I've seen all the movies but wouldn't consider myself a star wars nerd.

 I don't think Finn will have any sort of force powers, Ren pretty much dominated him after the first attack. In fact, a kind of hope he isn't a Jedi. Really interested to see of they flesh out his back story more though.

[Coleman]

My rankings:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menace

Discuss

[jficke13]

My rankings:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menace

Discuss

I concur.

I also am reminded how I like the idea of the prequels (that the 1-6 saga was always about Anakin's fall and redemption), but boy howdy was the execution poor.

[Hards Alumni]

Finn was proficient in using a lightsaber due to his training as a stormtrooper.  That is the best explanation I could come up with.  He isn't a master, but he probably learned how to use a variety of weapons during training.

[jesmu84]

1. Maybe Luke is just following in the footsteps of Obi Wan and Yoda's teaching: When apprentice goes darkside, you must go hermit.

Except that Yoda technically didn't become a hermit when his apprentice (Count Dooku) became dark. And Obi-wan only did it because he would have been killed otherwise. But, I get your point.

2. The thing that bugged me is why the Republic needs to prop up a Resistance to fight the First Order. Shouldn't the Republic have it's own fleet (I feel like they say something like "Without the Republic's fleet we're toast!)? That's the thing that doesn't track, at all, especially when the Resistance's fleet appears to consist of a few squadrons of X-Wings and that's it.

From some more in-depth investigation, it appears that once the Empire was cast aside, the Republic, in an attempt to absolve itself from the militaristic Empire, de-militarized almost entirely. Which means technically they have no fighting force and must rely on the Resistance for military intervention against groups like the First Order.

3. Either Finn has to have some kind of force affinity (sure picked up being a gunner quickly) or the lightsaber improvisation doesn't make a lot of sense for him either.

As per the scene in the movie of Finn vs the Stormtrooper, stormtroopers have training in weapon combat involving lightsabers and other hand-based weapons. He's not proficient (as evidenced by getting his ass kicked by Kylo when Kylo decided he wanted to try), but he's able.


4. All told, I'll forgive them some plot holes as long as the overall movie is good, and it was.

5. Harrison Ford was great. His comedic timing with Chewy was great.

6. John Williams can still bring it.

7. I'd give it a 7. Darn entertaining, but not life-altering.

[drewm88]

My rankings:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menace

Discuss

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Return of the Jedi
6. The Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the Clones

[mu03eng]

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Return of the Jedi
6. The Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the Clones

If TPM is ranked even ahead of the very special Star Wars Christmas episode GTFO.

Not ranking until I see it at least once more

[mu03eng]

2. The thing that bugged me is why the Republic needs to prop up a Resistance to fight the First Order. Shouldn't the Republic have it's own fleet (I feel like they say something like "Without the Republic's fleet we're toast!)? That's the thing that doesn't track, at all, especially when the Resistance's fleet appears to consist of a few squadrons of X-Wings and that's it.

Think of the Republic being the US, First Order as Iran, and the resistance as the insurgents supported by Iran during the occupation of Iraq.

Republic doesn't want open war with the First Order so is funneling money/talent to resistance to fight the First Order. In theory, now that the First Order has escalated, I would assume what's left of the Republic would now enter the fight openly.

I do think they avoided the "political landscape" to a large degree because politics and legal mumbo jumbo bogged down the PT

[Coleman]

If TPM is ranked even ahead of the very special Star Wars Christmas episode GTFO.

Not ranking until I see it at least once more

Yeah and I just can't get on board with any of the prequels being ranked ahead of any of the original 3 (drew has Revenge of the Sith ahead of Return of the Jedi). Just too much CGI and terrible acting.

[chapman]

2. The thing that bugged me is why the Republic needs to prop up a Resistance to fight the First Order. Shouldn't the Republic have it's own fleet (I feel like they say something like "Without the Republic's fleet we're toast!)? That's the thing that doesn't track, at all, especially when the Resistance's fleet appears to consist of a few squadrons of X-Wings and that's it.

They didn't explain it well at all, but the Republic disbanded most of its military strength after making a peace with the remains of the Empire.  So when the Empire evolved into the First Order, they didn't react.  Leia, knowing there's some dark side shenanigans going down and that makes the First Order threat, gets proactive and starts the Resistance.  They also had to rotate planets that hosted the Republic's senate since a bunch of planets were opposed to staying on Coruscant, even though hosting an intergalactic senate rotation seems like a worse bargain than hosting the Olympics...which, the planet that was the home of the Republic was the one the Sun Death Star thing blew up.

[jesmu84]

My rankings:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menace

Discuss

I need a few more viewings of TFA before I make my final standings...

1. Empire
2. ANH
3. Jedi
4. TFA
5. Sith
6. TPM (almost exclusively because of how awesome Darth Maul was. Such a waste to kill off one of the best villains in the franchise)
7. Clones

[drewm88]

If TPM is ranked even ahead of the very special Star Wars Christmas episode GTFO.

Those Anakin/Padme scenes in II are horrendous. They drive that movie straight to the bottom of the list, past podracing and midichlorians.

Edit: I'm also not a diehard at all, and am young enough that Phantom Menace didn't retroactively ruin my childhood joy.

[drewm88]

Yeah and I just can't get on board with any of the prequels being ranked ahead of any of the original 3 (drew has Revenge of the Sith ahead of Return of the Jedi). Just too much CGI and terrible acting.

Granted, I'm going off the deluxe special remastered reimagined revised refreshed digital collector's director's cut (now with more changes!), but ROTJ was meh when I recently watched it. Turning the giant pit (sarlac?) into a glorified venus fly trap and the stupid new song at Jabba's place were awful. ROTS was miles ahead of its prequelmates. But I still consider them to be about equal, so I have no issue with your rankings.

For what it's worth, Rotten Tomatoes has III as 79%/7.3 and VI as 80%/7.2.

[mu03eng]

Those Anakin/Padme scenes in II are horrendous. They drive that movie straight to the bottom of the list, past podracing and midichlorians.

Edit: I'm also not a diehard at all, and am young enough that Phantom Menace didn't retroactively ruin my childhood joy.

My bad, I forget that people watched the OT for the first time as Lucas's abortion of re-imaging and his "love scenes".  I just couldn't stand that TPM turned Anakin into a Christ figure and invented this bacteria that somehow is the force.

Personal note: my podcast partner and I were in college at the time AotC came out and we went to the midnight showing on opening night.  Packed theater, "delicate" love scene, super quiet and out of no where near the back of the theater a guy farted so load I thought he crapped himself.  We couldn't stop laughing for 30 minutes....saved us from some of those love scenes.

[Skatastrophy]

My bad, I forget that people watched the OT for the first time as Lucas's abortion of re-imaging and his "love scenes".  I just couldn't stand that TPM turned Anakin into a Christ figure and invented this bacteria that somehow is the force.

Personal note: my podcast partner and I were in college at the time AotC came out and we went to the midnight showing on opening night.  Packed theater, "delicate" love scene, super quiet and out of no where near the back of the theater a guy farted so load I thought he crapped himself.  We couldn't stop laughing for 30 minutes....saved us from some of those love scenes.

Midiclorians is a part of the expanded universe, along with there being beings of pure force. The Attack of the Clones cartoon series is on Netflix and is excellent.

Also for you younger folks, you can download the original trilogy directors cut online in HD without too much hassle. Way better than the reimagining, and worth the time looking for the torrent.

[jesmu84]

Midiclorians is a part of the expanded universe, along with there being beings of pure force. The Attack of the Clones cartoon series is on Netflix and is excellent.

Also for you younger folks, you can download the original trilogy directors cut online in HD without too much hassle. Way better than the reimagining, and worth the time looking for the torrent.

Just to clarify...

There is a now a difference between the Expanded Universe (EU) and canon. Canon is now the movies, Attack of the Clones cartoon, Star Wars Rebels cartoon and any sanctioned literature. The large majority of books, etc that came out before AotC cartoon is now considered non-canon.

[drewm88]

My bad, I forget that people watched the OT for the first time as Lucas's abortion of re-imaging and his "love scenes".  I just couldn't stand that TPM turned Anakin into a Christ figure and invented this bacteria that somehow is the force.

Personal note: my podcast partner and I were in college at the time AotC came out and we went to the midnight showing on opening night.  Packed theater, "delicate" love scene, super quiet and out of no where near the back of the theater a guy farted so load I thought he crapped himself.  We couldn't stop laughing for 30 minutes....saved us from some of those love scenes.

The first time I saw the OT would have been early/mid 90s, so before the theatrical rerelease, but the other times I've watched them would have been whatever George's flavor of the month was.

I hope the next revision adds the fart soundtrack to II. Maybe some well placed sneezes over the discussions of Anakin's birth in I as well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My rankings:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menace

Discuss

I have thought New Hope for the last 15 years doesn't hold up.  It was good for the time, but struggle IMO.  And yes, I still loved it as a kid and still watch it now.

1) Empire
2) Force Awakens




3) New Hope
4) Return




5) Crap
6) More Crap
7) Ridiculous CGI crap


As for the acting in this one....very good.  That's one area I though New Hope excelled, the cast was very good despite a poorly written script.  However, thought Carrie Fischer was not good in this latest movie.  Her facial expressions non-existent (has she had that much work done?). 

[brewcity77]

I enjoyed the hell out of the movie, but when the Main Theme hit, I got misty eyed, so I don't want to go too much on the rating side because I'd be going on emotion. I'll say this, it did feel like a true, spiritual successor to the first trilogy. My apologies, lots of stream of consciousness coming in this post.

I agree with those saying it felt almost too much like the first movies. Just like we have the Marquette Season Checklist, we could have the same thing for this movie. Unknown background for Jedi lead? Check. Behind-the-scenes bad guy who is pulling the strings of the visible bad guy? Check. Massive star base that can destroy planets? Check.

Speaking of, how has the Empire/First Order not figured out a way to protect their giant star base? Every time it has one miniscule weakness that the Rebel-public figures out how to exploit. For the love of god, defend your base! We all know how this movie ends.

Also...I felt the combination of Kylo Ren's conversation with Vader's helmet and him taking his mask off as early as he did really muted him as a villain. The reason Darth Vader was so badass was because he was this implacable, massive evil force without weakness for the first three hours of the original trilogy. By the time you learn he's Luke's father and view his weakness, he's already been established as a villain. Ren, on the other hand, is showing weakness less than halfway through the first movie. How badass is a Dark Jedi that's having trouble sticking to the Dark Side before his first lightsaber battle? I really hope they find a way to make him more evil by the time Episode VIII rolls around, because he already feels like a weak villain to me.

Finn is definitely a force user. No way a normal human could pick that up and wield it successfully. Also, consider the opening scene. Finn awoke as a force user in that scene, and Ren immediately sensed it. That's why he stopped before returning to his Star Destroyer, and that's how he knew exactly which Stormtrooper had deserted when Phasma informed him about it.

As far as Rey, well first, she was awesome. Great acting, really was the highlight of the movie. Who is she? My guess is she's Luke's daughter. As much as her being Ben's twin seems to follow canon, I can't for the life of me figure out why Han and Leia would abandon her on Jakku. They seem like better parents than that. Of course, does that mean her mother is Mara Jade? For all the noise they've made about Heir to the Empire not being canon, that seems hard to believe, but is it possible that their protestations are just a smokescreen and HttE actually happened, change a few names (Han and Leia's kids) and details, but Thrawn, Mara Jade, Talon Karrde, and Joruus C'baoth will all be part of the backstory? They said they kept Rey's surname out of the movie for a reason, so it has to be something familiar. The only problem is if it's Skywalker, how would she not know her parentage and her connection to Han and Leia? If it's Kenobi or Solo, wouldn't someone put two and two together?

One out there thought...someone mentioned the physical resemblance to Shmi, Luke's actual mother. What if it's Ren Jinn? Perhaps Qui-Gon and Shmi had a kid? Qui-Gon was definitely the one highlight of Phantom Menace, and one of the few redeeming bits of the second trilogy. But if so, that'd make her way too old, unless she ages at a slower rate than Padme's people. That said, when she grasps Luke's lightsaber, the voices she hears includes a hybrid of Alec Guinness and Ewen MacGregor.

A bit off topic, but amusing if you have 10 minutes. Video explaining how Jar Jar Binks was actually the original Sith enemy in the second trilogy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yy3q9f84EA

[jesmu84]

I enjoyed the hell out of the movie, but when the Main Theme hit, I got misty eyed, so I don't want to go too much on the rating side because I'd be going on emotion. I'll say this, it did feel like a true, spiritual successor to the first trilogy. My apologies, lots of stream of consciousness coming in this post.

I agree with those saying it felt almost too much like the first movies. Just like we have the Marquette Season Checklist, we could have the same thing for this movie. Unknown background for Jedi lead? Check. Behind-the-scenes bad guy who is pulling the strings of the visible bad guy? Check. Massive star base that can destroy planets? Check.

Speaking of, how has the Empire/First Order not figured out a way to protect their giant star base? Every time it has one miniscule weakness that the Rebel-public figures out how to exploit. For the love of god, defend your base! We all know how this movie ends.

Also...I felt the combination of Kylo Ren's conversation with Vader's helmet and him taking his mask off as early as he did really muted him as a villain. The reason Darth Vader was so badass was because he was this implacable, massive evil force without weakness for the first three hours of the original trilogy. By the time you learn he's Luke's father and view his weakness, he's already been established as a villain. Ren, on the other hand, is showing weakness less than halfway through the first movie. How badass is a Dark Jedi that's having trouble sticking to the Dark Side before his first lightsaber battle? I really hope they find a way to make him more evil by the time Episode VIII rolls around, because he already feels like a weak villain to me.

I actually enjoyed this villian because, assuming he's around for the entire trilogy, we'll get to see him grow/change. He might come back to the light side, but more likely delves deeper into the dark. Very few characters in the Star Wars universe have we see grow, besides Luke/Anakin. I'm excited to see a villain grow. He will become more powerful. He will learn to control his temper tantrums. I think it's awesome.

Finn is definitely a force user. No way a normal human could pick that up and wield it successfully. Also, consider the opening scene. Finn awoke as a force user in that scene, and Ren immediately sensed it. That's why he stopped before returning to his Star Destroyer, and that's how he knew exactly which Stormtrooper had deserted when Phasma informed him about it.

Disagree that Finn is a force user. I think his stormtrooper training allowed him to use the lightsaber. And I wouldn't call it successful. He got his butt kicked by the stormtrooper and then got demolished when Kylo decided to try.

As far as Rey, well first, she was awesome. Great acting, really was the highlight of the movie. Who is she? My guess is she's Luke's daughter. As much as her being Ben's twin seems to follow canon, I can't for the life of me figure out why Han and Leia would abandon her on Jakku. They seem like better parents than that. Of course, does that mean her mother is Mara Jade? For all the noise they've made about Heir to the Empire not being canon, that seems hard to believe, but is it possible that their protestations are just a smokescreen and HttE actually happened, change a few names (Han and Leia's kids) and details, but Thrawn, Mara Jade, Talon Karrde, and Joruus C'baoth will all be part of the backstory? They said they kept Rey's surname out of the movie for a reason, so it has to be something familiar. The only problem is if it's Skywalker, how would she not know her parentage and her connection to Han and Leia? If it's Kenobi or Solo, wouldn't someone put two and two together?

Be careful. The Solo twins, etc, etc, are NOT canon. I have no doubt that the writers/producers will take things from the EU, because they were really good fleshed out ideas.

One out there thought...someone mentioned the physical resemblance to Shmi, Luke's actual mother. What if it's Ren Jinn? Perhaps Qui-Gon and Shmi had a kid? Qui-Gon was definitely the one highlight of Phantom Menace, and one of the few redeeming bits of the second trilogy. But if so, that'd make her way too old, unless she ages at a slower rate than Padme's people. That said, when she grasps Luke's lightsaber, the voices she hears includes a hybrid of Alec Guinness and Ewen MacGregor.

A bit off topic, but amusing if you have 10 minutes. Video explaining how Jar Jar Binks was actually the original Sith enemy in the second trilogy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yy3q9f84EA

There's even more theories that go beyond the prequels - ie. that Jar Jar is Snoke.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

The Force Awakens was entertaining and did a good job of introducing the new characters while bringing back some old favorites.  But overall the movie was a bit too formulaic with old plot themes, old character lines/moves, parallel settings, and plot holes you could fly a Star Destroyer through.

The one thing that bothers me most: Why is Rey's lightsaber blue?  I didn't catch it at first because during the movie I was trying to figure out why Luke's lightsaber ended up abandoned and locked in the basement of the Mos Eisley Cantina, err Yoda's basement, err the basement of Maz's bar.

In the movie, they explained the lightsaber belonged to Luke Skywalker, and Darth Vader/Anakin before him.  Which would explain why the lightsaber is blue...except that lightsaber was lost when Vader sliced off Luke's hand in Empire!  So how the F did it end up halfway across the galaxy 30 years later???  Shouldn't Rey have a green lightsaber like Luke's from Jedi?  What happened to Luke's green lightsaber?  And how did nobody catch this from a continuity perspective?

I'm wondering how many more plot holes I missed during the first viewing.  Still, this movie was better than the abominations that were 1 and 2 (besides Darth Maul but even he was underused and killed off way too soon).  I'd rank it 5th.

1. Empire
2. The Original
3. Sith
4. Jedi
5. Force
Tied for last: I & II

[jesmu84]

The Force Awakens was entertaining and did a good job of introducing the new characters while bringing back some old favorites.  But overall the movie was a bit too formulaic with old plot themes, old character lines/moves, parallel settings, and plot holes you could fly a Star Destroyer through.

The one thing that bothers me most: Why is Rey's lightsaber blue?  I didn't catch it at first because during the movie I was trying to figure out why Luke's lightsaber ended up abandoned and locked in the basement of the Mos Eisley Cantina, err Yoda's basement, err the basement of Maz's bar.

In the movie, they explained the lightsaber belonged to Luke Skywalker, and Darth Vader/Anakin before him.  Which would explain why the lightsaber is blue...except that lightsaber was lost when Vader sliced off Luke's hand in Empire!  So how the F did it end up halfway across the galaxy 30 years later???  Shouldn't Rey have a green lightsaber like Luke's from Jedi?  What happened to Luke's green lightsaber?  And how did nobody catch this from a continuity perspective?

I'm wondering how many more plot holes I missed during the first viewing.  Still, this movie was better than the abominations that were 1 and 2 (besides Darth Maul but even he was underused and killed off way too soon).  I'd rank it 5th.

1. Empire
2. The Original
3. Sith
4. Jedi
5. Force
Tied for last: I & II

Somehow, Maz ended up with Luke's blue lightsaber. The one that was given to him by Obi-wan. Obi-wan acquired it because it was originally Anakin's before their last encounter where Obi-wan defeated Anakin and took it. Correct, Luke lost it and his hand in Cloud City. Somehow, we haven't been told, Maz ended up with it.

Luke, almost assuredly, still has his green lightsaber.

Every jedi makes/creates their own individual saber. Luke, through the first two movies, used Anakin's. It wasn't his own. So, when he lost it (and as he should be expected to) he made his own - which was green.

[Coleman]

Granted, I'm going off the deluxe special remastered reimagined revised refreshed digital collector's director's cut (now with more changes!), but ROTJ was meh when I recently watched it. Turning the giant pit (sarlac?) into a glorified venus fly trap and the stupid new song at Jabba's place were awful. ROTS was miles ahead of its prequelmates. But I still consider them to be about equal, so I have no issue with your rankings.

For what it's worth, Rotten Tomatoes has III as 79%/7.3 and VI as 80%/7.2.

I'll grant you VI is by far the worst of the original 3, and III is by far the best of the prequels, so we're close. I just can't put III ahead of VI.