collapse

* Recent Posts

2024 Transfer Portal by MU82
[Today at 09:55:19 PM]


[Paint Touches] Big East programs ranked by NBA representation by jfp61
[Today at 09:52:58 PM]


So....What are we ranked on Monday - 11/1/2024? by MuggsyB
[Today at 08:11:50 PM]


Banquet by Skatastrophy
[Today at 06:50:03 PM]


Recruiting as of 3/15/24 by Juan Anderson's Mixtape
[Today at 06:37:34 PM]


Big East 2024 Offseason by MU82
[Today at 06:32:11 PM]


D-I Logo Quiz by SoCalEagle
[Today at 01:23:01 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington  (Read 14561 times)

Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1363
Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« on: December 04, 2015, 10:38:24 AM »
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2595372-the-inevitable-end-is-near-for-tom-crean-at-indiana?is_shared=true#

The Inevitable End Is Near for Tom Crean

DURHAM, N.C. — They slapped the floor.

In the midst of one of the most historically inept defensive performances in the proud history of Indiana basketball, the underachieving Hoosiers thought the answer to their woes was to slap Coach K's floor at Cameron Indoor Stadium.

So, just like everything these Hoosiers do when they don't have the ball this season, they halfheartedly slapped the floor.

Seconds later Duke guard Grayson Allen was throwing in a circus shot off the backboard to end the first half. The game ended with the ball back in Allen's hands, IU guard James Blackmon Jr. swiping at the ball as the buzzer sounded, Allen with a "c'mon bro" grin on his face and the scoreboard reading Duke 94, Indiana 74.

What. A. Joke.

This is what year eight of the Tom Crean experience has turned into. One big joke. Check Twitter during an IU basketball game and you'll find the angry epilogue of the Crean era. ("Crean" was trending, unshockingly, on Wednesday night, and no one was complimenting his snappy wardrobe.)

This is what the end looks like—the Hoosiers imitating what they think defense should look like...one miserable possession after another.

"We need to guard the ball better," Crean said, and that was the gist of his postgame message. Well, that and reminding everyone we were minutes away from Dec. 3.

"It's eight games in, and I think we'll get better," Crean said. "That's the bottom line."

And that's an acceptable answer for most coaches, but Crean is not most coaches. His seat is so hot you can get burned just walking by, and, yes, it is only Dec. 3, but Crean returned a majority of his core from a team last year that also would not guard.

This was the year that was supposed to improve. The Hoosiers, the theory went, lacked an interior presence and rim protector, so Crean signed 6'10" Thomas Bryant, the fifth-best power forward in 247Sports' class of 2015 composite rankings.

Bryant is not the answer.

So Crean has turned gimmicky, switching from man-to-man to zone coverage, and sometimes inside one possession. It's confusing. Not to the opponent, but to his team.

The Hoosiers spent several possessions against the seventh-ranked Blue Devils doing a lot of pointing and scrambling to where they thought they should be.

Duke freshman wing Brandon Ingram, who has had trouble scoring against college defenses and torched IU for a season-high 24 points, said he felt like he was back in high school. Makes sense. Ingram hasn't faced a defense that bad since high school.

When Allen was asked to compare IU's defenses to other defenses Duke had faced this year, this was his answer, verbatim, after a long pause: "Um, you know they're, uh, they're obviously different than a Kentucky defensively, because they're not...they don't have the same size, but um, uh, their guards—Yogi [Ferrell], [Robert] Johnson, um, Blackmon, they're all quick. Um, and they can kind of get to the ball. Um, they don't have, uh, Bryant being their lone true big at the rim to protect, so it's kind of different inside, but their guards do a good job of being quick and getting to the ball."

Allen...was...um...searching. His best effort at not admitting that D was pretty lousy.

Let's just allow the numbers to tell the story, shall we?

Duke scored 1.52 points per possession against Indiana. That's the most efficient the Blue Devils have been in a game in the last 15 years, according to Ken Pomeroy's data. That's also the highest mark the Hoosiers have ever allowed in the Crean era.

Worse than any game in Crean's first year on the job when Kelvin Sampson had put the program on probation and the depleted roster won just one Big Ten game.

That context is important, as is the fact that Crean brought IU back from life support. The Hoosiers have made three of the last four NCAA tournaments, and they were a No. 1 seed in 2013.

Crean is not a terrible coach, and he's actually a damn good program builder. The talent on this roster is actually strong. This team started the season ranked 15th. Troy Williams is probably the most athletic guy in college basketball and a first-round talent. Bryant and Blackmon will likely one day hear their names called in the NBA draft. Ferrell is one of college basketball's most respected point guards.

You can make excuses for why that talent isn't working, but nothing really sticks.

Crean pointed to the experience Duke had in the frontcourt as one reason his team got pushed around—the Devils had more offensive rebounds (19) than IU had defensive rebounds (16). But the Hoosiers have more experience across the board—Crean played four seniors and two juniors Wednesday night. Duke is the country's 296th-most experienced team, according to KenPom.com.

You could use size as an excuse for getting dominated in the paint and on the boards. But the Hoosiers are not the country's only program embracing small ball. Villanova, for example, has a 6'5" wing playing most of his minutes at power forward, and that's the country's best second-best defensive team.

Here's the only explanation that fits: Crean's message has grown stale in Bloomington.

The off-the-court issues and the bitterness toward Crean are bad enough. But the fact that this is the second year with a core that just doesn't seem to comprehend what it takes to stop the other team from scoring comes back to the man in charge.

Yes, it's only Dec. 3.

But all that means is Crean has four months to start his search for the next stop.

Because with each bad loss—this is the third in eight games, with the other two to less talented and less experienced teams—with each defensive lapse, the natives grow restless.

There's not much that can save him now. Not a floor slap. Not a magical zone.

Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington.
"Half a billion we used to do about every two months...or as my old boss would say, 'you're on the hook for $8 million a day come hell or high water-.    Never missed in 6 years." - Chico apropos of nothing

Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1363
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2015, 10:39:18 AM »
Bet shopping here.... what odds would you offer me if I were to bet Buzz is the next coach at IU?
"Half a billion we used to do about every two months...or as my old boss would say, 'you're on the hook for $8 million a day come hell or high water-.    Never missed in 6 years." - Chico apropos of nothing

JWags85

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2015, 11:57:42 AM »
100-1 and thats probably a bit low.  I don't think Buzz would even be one of the top 10 on their list.  I would go as far as to say I'd think Bryce Drew gets a call before buzz.

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2015, 12:01:55 PM »
They will try for Brad Stevens.  They will end up with Archie Miller.

Benny B

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5969
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2015, 12:07:22 PM »
They will try for Brad Stevens.  They will end up with Archie Miller.

Can't tell whether you intended this literally or metaphorically, but either way, it's pretty spot on.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2015, 12:09:53 PM »
Can't tell whether you intended this literally or metaphorically, but either way, it's pretty spot on.


My intent was literal if it turns out to be true.  Metaphorical if it turns out differently.

Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1363
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2015, 12:23:08 PM »
They will try for Brad Stevens.  They will end up with Archie Miller.
Agree Brad won't come. Would be a ridiculous step up in terms of job size for Miller. IU will be maybe the most scrutinized job in college athletics for the next coach.

I feel like IU will be seeking out a "slam dunk" hire rather than a gamble. That's what Crean was supposed to be, but guessing it'll be someone with some level of demonstrated high-level success.

I was only half kidding about Buzz.... a coach with a practically zero dollar buyout and demonstrated track record of high level success would tick a lot of boxes for any AD.

Otherwise maybe Gregg Marshall? Not a lot of other coaches of that level who would be willing to leave for IU.

OR Richard Pitino? That would be quite the storyline.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 12:30:19 PM by Grayson Allen »
"Half a billion we used to do about every two months...or as my old boss would say, 'you're on the hook for $8 million a day come hell or high water-.    Never missed in 6 years." - Chico apropos of nothing

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2015, 12:30:14 PM »
Agree Brad won't come. Would be a ridiculous step up in terms of job size for Miller. IU will be maybe the most scrutinized job in college athletics for the next coach.

I feel like IU will be seeking out a "slam dunk" hire rather than a gamble. That's what Crean was supposed to be, but guessing it'll be someone with some level of demonstrated high-level success.

I was only half kidding about Buzz.... a coach with a practically zero dollar buyout and demonstrated track record of high level success would tick a lot of boxes for any AD.


Archie Miller was an assistant in the Big Ten and P12 before getting the Dayton job.  Is it any different than Thad Matta getting the Ohio State job from Xavier?  Or Sean Miller going from Xavier to Arizona?

What slam dunk type of coach (proven coach from a high caliber conference) would show reciprocal interest in IU?

Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1363
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2015, 12:31:37 PM »

Archie Miller was an assistant in the Big Ten and P12 before getting the Dayton job.  Is it any different than Thad Matta getting the Ohio State job from Xavier?  Or Sean Miller going from Xavier to Arizona?

What slam dunk type of coach (proven coach from a high caliber conference) would show reciprocal interest in IU?
Buzz and Gregg Marshall are the two I can think of...

I'm not saying Miller is a bad hire, I'm just saying the IU faithful might see that as too much of a gamble since IU is the ultimate destination job in college athletics.
"Half a billion we used to do about every two months...or as my old boss would say, 'you're on the hook for $8 million a day come hell or high water-.    Never missed in 6 years." - Chico apropos of nothing

MerrittsMustache

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4676
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2015, 12:34:34 PM »
What slam dunk type of coach (proven coach from a high caliber conference) would show reciprocal interest in IU?

Isiah Thomas

Scott Drew, perhaps?

« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 12:41:33 PM by MerrittsMustache »

LAZER

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1795
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2015, 12:37:29 PM »

Archie Miller was an assistant in the Big Ten and P12 before getting the Dayton job.  Is it any different than Thad Matta getting the Ohio State job from Xavier?  Or Sean Miller going from Xavier to Arizona?

What slam dunk type of coach (proven coach from a high caliber conference) would show reciprocal interest in IU?

I would put a call in to Archie's older brother just to see if he would listen.

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2015, 12:52:27 PM »
Buzz and Gregg Marshall are the two I can think of...

I'm not saying Miller is a bad hire, I'm just saying the IU faithful might see that as too much of a gamble since IU is the ultimate destination job in college athletics.


I don't think IU would have any interest in Buzz.  Marshall maybe.

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2015, 12:52:38 PM »
I would put a call in to Archie's older brother just to see if he would listen.

Agreed.

brandx

  • Guest
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2015, 12:59:15 PM »


In the midst of one of the most historically inept defensive performances in the proud history of Indiana basketball, the underachieving Hoosiers thought the answer to their woes was to slap Coach K's floor at Cameron Indoor Stadium.



Let me make a correction to the article. It was actually one of the most historically inept defensive performances in the proud history of NCAA Division 1 basketball. I believe Duke averaged over 1.6 pts. per possession in the game. Legendary.

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2015, 01:02:31 PM »
Let me make a correction to the article. It was actually one of the most historically inept defensive performances in the proud history of NCAA Division 1 basketball. I believe Duke averaged over 1.6 pts. per possession in the game. Legendary.

Ole Stew IS AVAILABLE!!!!!

StillAWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4212
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2015, 01:12:13 PM »
Is something wrong with my monitor?  Why isn't my teal working?  Buzz?

I can appreciate that Buzz did some really nice things at Marquette and I was generally a fan, but I don't see him cashing in on a new job any time too soon.  I think a lot of people perceive that Marquette was on a down-slide when he left; he moved to a lesser job; and he's not exactly tearing it up at VA Tech, is he?  I can't imagine why anyone would consider Buzz for an upgrade at this point.  I would think that he'd have to show some improvement at VT before he's going to take a big step up in his career.  I think most of us on this board have just about as good of a shot at the Indiana job as Buzz does.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23758
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2015, 01:18:20 PM »
So, hitching up your pants and clapping isn't a defensive philosophy?    Who knew?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Benny B

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5969
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2015, 01:33:02 PM »

My intent was literal if it turns out to be true.  Metaphorical if it turns out differently.

You Hoopaloopin'?
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

GOO

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1347
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2015, 02:23:04 PM »
I think Buzz is kinda like a Top exec at a top tech company, who takes a lessor CEO job and doesn't kill it at the new job.

E.g  Marissa Mayer

Her next job won't be as CEO of a top tech company.  She will have to earn her way back to be in a position to earn that type of job.  She is at a D job, and won't get offered a position of CEO at an A type of job.  She will have to settle for the C type of CEO job or as an officer at an A job.

Same for Buzz.  He is now going to have to earn his way back up to get an IU type of job.  And I don't know if he will succeed, with all of his quirks and the stories out there.  He has to be so much better at winning than the comparable other guy due to his personality.

  I think he really has to kill it at Tech or another mid-level school before he would get a shot at IU.

ChitownSpaceForRent

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6315
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2015, 02:33:56 PM »
I don't think Buzz would want the Indiana job either. That's just as much of a pressure cooker, if not more, then Marquette is. Yes there were other reasons for Buzz's departure besides too much pressure (See: Mayo, Todd) but I think Buzz doesn't want to go back to that right away.

MerrittsMustache

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4676
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2015, 02:39:37 PM »
I think Buzz is kinda like a Top exec at a top tech company, who takes a lessor CEO job and doesn't kill it at the new job.

E.g  Marissa Mayer

Her next job won't be as CEO of a top tech company.  She will have to earn her way back to be in a position to earn that type of job.  She is at a D job, and won't get offered a position of CEO at an A type of job.  She will have to settle for the C type of CEO job or as an officer at an A job.

Same for Buzz.  He is now going to have to earn his way back up to get an IU type of job.  And I don't know if he will succeed, with all of his quirks and the stories out there.  He has to be so much better at winning than the comparable other guy due to his personality.

  I think he really has to kill it at Tech or another mid-level school before he would get a shot at IU.

We finally got the Buzz Williams-Marissa Mayer comparison. This thread is complete.


Tugg Speedman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8836
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2015, 03:29:59 PM »
They will try for Brad Stevens.  They will end up with Archie Miller.

Good call.

IU has retreads with the last two hires in Crean (assuming he is out) and Sampson.  I would argue it has not worked out as well and the promoted assistant in Mike Davis (admittedly debatable). 

Do you think they have learned that retread is not a good way to go?  The best route is taking the current hotshot assistant.  That is what MU has done the last 25 years and it has worked well.  The one time they strayed from this (Mike Deane), it did not.

So, what odds do you give IU in doing "the smart thing" and promoting whoever is consider the top assistant in the country?

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2015, 03:38:36 PM »
Good call.

IU has retreads with the last two hires in Crean (assuming he is out) and Sampson.  I would argue it has not worked out as well and the promoted assistant in Mike Davis (admittedly debatable). 

Do you think they have learned that retread is not a good way to go?  The best route is taking the current hotshot assistant.  That is what MU has done the last 25 years and it has worked well.  The one time they strayed from this (Mike Deane), it did not.

So, what odds do you give IU in doing "the smart thing" and promoting whoever is consider the top assistant in the country?


I think calling Crean and Sampson "retreads" completely redefines the word.  Both were considered pretty hot coaching candidates at the time.

And what high major program hires an assistant from another program for his first coaching gig (versus promoted from within?)  The last I can think of is Roy Williams at Kansas. 

MerrittsMustache

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4676
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2015, 03:40:15 PM »
And what high major program hires an assistant from another program for his first coaching gig (versus promoted from within?)  The last I can think of is Roy Williams at Kansas.

Wojo!  ;D

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2015, 03:42:04 PM »
Wojo!  ;D



Oh good lord....that is seriously embarrassing. 

 

feedback