The Best That Could Happen To The BE ....

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm not sure FSI - or whoever holds the TV rights next - would be cool about throwing away the Chicago market, regardless of how poorly DePaul performs (on the court or in the ratings).
The Big East probably is slightly better off with a good DePaul than a bad DePaul, but I think the benefits are likely marginal. A bad to middling St. John's program didn't exactly kill the old Big East, after all.

Its the markets they are in. Big East needs them.

I certainly don't want to lose the Chicago market. Definitely agree with that. But the amount of investment Depaul has put in is laughable. I honestly think Loyola has invested more in athletics in recent years. Again, don't think we are at the point of actually pulling an old switcheroo, but I feel like there should be a point at which a conference can say "either invest or get out."

As for Seton Hall, do they really get us a market? I think St. John's does that just fine.

[Pakuni]

I certainly don't want to lose the Chicago market. Definitely agree with that. But the amount of investment Depaul has put in is laughable. I honestly think Loyola has invested more in athletics in recent years. Again, don't think we are at the point of actually pulling an old switcheroo, but I feel like there should be a point at which a conference can say "either invest or get out."

Well, to be fair, DePaul is spending $82.5 million to help fund a new arena.
And Oliver Purnell was paid fairly handsomely (earned $2.2 million in 2013).

[The Lens]

Who cares.  Seton Hall and DePaul do not hurt us.  Every conference has lower tier teams.  What we need to break through is to have upper tier teams become elite. If your best can beat the others best, then you're golden.

St. John's & Georgetown are original Big East Powers (Nova was never, IMO, considered a power*).  Having St John's and GTown as Final Four teams / Top 10 mainstays would solidify the conference lot more than De Paul or Seton Hall routinely making the NCAAs.  Marquette / Nova could help greatly too but I don't think we hold the same cache.

*They were an 8 Seed in 1985 and throughout the 80's their seed was: 8,9,3,3,7,8, 10,NIT,7,NIT. 

[warriorchick]

if you really think the new arena and Rosemont are a wash in terms of accessibility you have no clue.

Exactly.  I would venture to guess that the majority of DePaul's suburbanite alums live within a few of miles of either I-90(west of Downtown), I-294, or I-94(north of Downtown).  Getting to Rosemont is a breeze from any of those places.  When you move the arena to McCormick Place, you will be forcing nearly all of these people to drive significantly farther, and through downtown, where traffic is almost always jammed.  Maybe it's worth it to see the Bears. Totally not worth it to see a sucky DePaul.

My prediction:  Once the novelty of a new venue wears off, attendance will drop even further.

[warriorchick]

I certainly don't want to lose the Chicago market. Definitely agree with that. B

Question: What is the point of having the Chicago market if no one follows the Chicago team?  I would bet that as a total, there are more people living in the Chicago market who are fans of the other Big East teams than there are DePaul fans. Hell, I would bet there are more Marquette fans in Chicago than there are DePaul fans.

[Atticus]

Ill raise you one: there are more B10 fans in chicago than BE fans.

[warriorchick]

Ill raise you one: there are more B10 fans in chicago than BE fans.

I assume you are being sarcastic, because that is not exactly a bold assertion.

[Atticus]

I assume you are being sarcastic, because that is not exactly a bold assertion.

Obviously!

[Eldon]

Who cares.  Seton Hall and DePaul do not hurt us.  Every conference has lower tier teams.  What we need to break through is to have upper tier teams become elite. If your best can beat the others best, then you're golden.

St. John's & Georgetown are original Big East Powers (Nova was never, IMO, considered a power*).  Having St John's and GTown as Final Four teams / Top 10 mainstays would solidify the conference lot more than De Paul or Seton Hall routinely making the NCAAs.  Marquette / Nova could help greatly too but I don't think we hold the same cache.

*They were an 8 Seed in 1985 and throughout the 80's their seed was: 8,9,3,3,7,8, 10,NIT,7,NIT.

+1.  All of it.

[Eldon]

Question: What is the point of having the Chicago market if no one follows the Chicago team? I would bet that as a total, there are more people living in the Chicago market who are fans of the other Big East teams than there are DePaul fans. Hell, I would bet there are more Marquette fans in Chicago than there are DePaul fans.

Recruiting is one reason.

And I agree about MU fans in Chi.  In fact, all of us Scoopers probably spend more time discussing DePaul than DePaul's own message board

[Pakuni]

Question: What is the point of having the Chicago market if no one follows the Chicago team?  I would bet that as a total, there are more people living in the Chicago market who are fans of the other Big East teams than there are DePaul fans. Hell, I would bet there are more Marquette fans in Chicago than there are DePaul fans.

For the same reason the Big 10 wanted to get into the NY/NJ market even though no one follows Rutgers. It establishes the conference in the market. It helps if the team is good, of course, but the team being bad doesn't entirely eliminate the benefit. Fact is, DePaul is the biggest BE school, with the biggest alumni base and in the second-biggest market. Their presence is good for the conference.

"No one" follows DePaul is a bit of a stretch. I know plenty of DePaul alums who care quite a bit, but just don't go to the games because the product is terrible and has been for a long time.  They still managed to average 6,200 fans last year, which is better than the likes of Oregon, Arizona State, Georgia Tech and mighty Virginia Tech, among others. They obviously could do a lot better, but it's not as bad as is being portrayed here.

[Galway Eagle]

Exactly.  I would venture to guess that the majority of DePaul's suburbanite alums live within a few of miles of either I-90(west of Downtown), I-294, or I-94(north of Downtown).  Getting to Rosemont is a breeze from any of those places.  When you move the arena to McCormick Place, you will be forcing nearly all of these people to drive significantly farther, and through downtown, where traffic is almost always jammed.  Maybe it's worth it to see the Bears. Totally not worth it to see a sucky DePaul.

My prediction:  Once the novelty of a new venue wears off, attendance will drop even further.

I think they're hoping for more student interest since the alumni weren't coming either. At least one game a year they'd have ok student crowds. 

[warriorchick]

"No one" follows DePaul is a bit of a stretch. I know plenty of DePaul alums who care quite a bit, but just don't go to the games because the product is terrible and has been for a long time.  They still managed to average 6,200 fans last year, which is better than the likes of Oregon, Arizona State, Georgia Tech and mighty Virginia Tech, among others. They obviously could do a lot better, but it's not as bad as is being portrayed here.

Your 6,200 number must be tickets sold, not attendance. Either way, it is pretty pathetic for a high D-1 school with over 100,000 alumni who live in the area - and does not have to compete with its football team.

The last few times I attended a MU-DePaul game at the Allstate Arena, the crowd was at least 80% Marquette fans.  And there were more students in the pep band/spirit squad than in the student section.  That is not an exaggeration.  At last year's game, I literally took a count of the students by looking down the 4 occupied rows.

[MU82]

My prediction:  Once the novelty of a new venue wears off, attendance will drop even further.

Sadly, chickadee, I think this prediction will come true.

[Tugg Speedman]

Ill raise you one: there are more B10 fans in chicago than BE fans.

The Big 10 has over 4 million living alumni.  They are the largest fan base in just about every TV market in the country (including NYC and LA)

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The Big 10 has over 4 million living alumni.  They are the largest fan base in just about every TV market in the country (including NYC and LA)

Yup. Then you have people like my parents who went to UIC so they ended up being illinois and northwestern fans. Even myself, grew up on illini basketball before going to Marquette and still follow them and northwestern pretty closely.

[Tugg Speedman]

For the same reason the Big 10 wanted to get into the NY/NJ market even though no one follows Rutgers. It establishes the conference in the market. It helps if the team is good, of course, but the team being bad doesn't entirely eliminate the benefit. Fact is, DePaul is the biggest BE school, with the biggest alumni base and in the second-biggest market. Their presence is good for the conference.

"No one" follows DePaul is a bit of a stretch. I know plenty of DePaul alums who care quite a bit, but just don't go to the games because the product is terrible and has been for a long time.  They still managed to average 6,200 fans last year, which is better than the likes of Oregon, Arizona State, Georgia Tech and mighty Virginia Tech, among others. They obviously could do a lot better, but it's not as bad as is being portrayed here.

Not some reason ... we have had many threads on this.

The Big10 took in Maryland and Rutgers so they could use their large alumni bases in the Washington and NYC TV markets to force/compel cable operators to carry the Big Ten Network (BTN) on a lower tier (non-premium) bundle.  Remember the economics of TV networks, BTN gets paid for every TV in that market (about 30 cents per month) whether they actually watch the BTN or not.

This is why DePaul was important to FS1.  They used it as leverage to ensure every cable operator in Chicago carried FS1 and FS2.  Ditto St. Johns and Seton Hall in NYC, Nova in Philly, GU is DC, MU in Milwaukee and so on.  The BE was important to a new FS1 as they needed "big city" programming to get on those cable systems lower tiers (or basic bundles).

Now that this has been established, DePaul's usefulness to the BE is based on their ability to raise the level and interest of the BE basketball product.  On this front, DePaul does practically nothing for it.

[The Equalizer]

Ill raise you one: there are more B10 fans in chicago than BE fans.

Pick any single team from the B10, and it probably has more fans in chicago than BE fans.

[Anti-Dentite]

Pick any single team from the B10, and it probably has more fans in chicago than BE fans.

Rutgers

[The Equalizer]

This is why DePaul was important to FS1.  They used it as leverage to ensure every cable operator in Chicago carried FS1 and FS2.  Ditto St. Johns and Seton Hall in NYC, Nova in Philly, GU is DC, MU in Milwaukee and so on.  The BE was important to a new FS1 as they needed "big city" programming to get on those cable systems lower tiers (or basic bundles).

I think you're forgetting that all those "big city" households already carried FS1--it was called the Speed channel before their rebrand.  Fox didn't need "big city" programming to get on those cable systems as they were already on them.

[GGGG]

Rutgers

I'm not even sure about that. 

[GGGG]

But really, the idea that the BE is going to jettison members is fun to talk about but it simply isn't going to happen.  This is why the examples of schools getting booted out of conferences are so rare - one example based on poor performance that I can think of, and even in that case it was a single sport membership.  (Temple in BE)

Furthermore, you are taking programming away from Fox unless you add new members.  But then you are right back to where you started.  Who are you going to add? 

[MerrittsMustache]

But really, the idea that the BE is going to jettison members is fun to talk about but it simply isn't going to happen.  This is why the examples of schools getting booted out of conferences are so rare - one example based on poor performance that I can think of, and even in that case it was a single sport membership.  (Temple in BE)

Furthermore, you are taking programming away from Fox unless you add new members.  But then you are right back to where you started.  Who are you going to add?

Any and all A-10 or MWC teams that put together back-to-back solid seasons and/or make it to at least the Sweet 16!

[GGGG]

Any and all A-10 or MWC teams that put together back-to-back solid seasons and/or make it to at least the Sweet 16!

Right.  So let's start that debate again.  Dayton...Wichita...St. Louis...  Those schools could all be added right now and the BE is showing no interest.

[MUfan12]

Any and all A-10 or MWC teams that put together back-to-back solid seasons and/or make it to at least the Sweet 16!

Let's get nuts. Promotion and relegation between the Big East and A10/MVC. League winners go up. Bottom two get relegated to the best geographical fit.