What We Learn From Games Before Thanksgiving ....

[Tugg Speedman]

Roughly one year ago we lost to UNO and struggled to beat NJIT.

And here is a small sampling of what was said at the time ...

2.  I think Carlino is a detriment and not a benefit.  He doesn't fit with this group and if he was a sophomore I'd be ok with it as a rental senior on a bad team I don't get it.

3. ... If Carlino doesn't stop sucking, Duane should be point.

Except for Carlino....I think he is a lost cause on defense.

And generally their was a bunch of posters screaming after UNO and NJIT that Carlino was useless and a waste of a scholarship.

And (I'm too lazy to look it up), the same was said about Trent Lockett before Thanksgiving two years ago.

Then this morning I read ....

12.  Would have loved to see Carlino out there at the end.  Because there aren't any experienced finishers out there. 

My point is ... what can you learn about players and teams in games before Thanksgiving?  Nothing!  If anything, all you learn more about the poster, not the team or the player.

(I could easily extend this to Christmas as three years ago we lost to Green Bay and the season was over a complete disaster.  Three months later we were BE regular season champs and playing in the Elite 8).

If we believe what was said about Carlino before thanksgiving last year, he was useless.  Ditto Lockett two years ago.

Patience, Patience, Patience!  Wait until January 15 before you make conclusions about this team.

I expect this team to be vast improved in 45 to 60 days and this to be a distant memory.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I agree.  This is a team you judge game by game...we should improve with each one.  I will get worried if it looks like the team is hitting a plateau. 

[Class71]

What it means is we are a bad team with considerable upside. Whether or not that upside will be realized is unclear. What is clear is that Wojo must be going absolutely out of his mind with this band  of undecipled group of warriors.

[GooooMarquette]

FWIW, both Carlino and Lockett were playing their first games as MU players.  Therefore, I completely agree that assessments of NEW players - either frosh, who are just getting used to the college game, or transfers, who are just getting used to a new coach and atmosphere - mean very little before Thanksgiving.

But for returning players - especially those with considerable game time experience - even early games can be cause for concern.  Duane and Luke have been up and down, so I remain optimistic that they will become more consistent...but I'm getting pretty concerned by what I'm seeing from JJJ. 

[CAGASS24]

Although I agree that you don't want to make many conclusions about what this team can accomplish this year based on two games- I do think these games can really go a long way for establishing confidence- we need to fin ways to win - good job doing that in a very ugly fashion last night-

But I am sure that this team is much better than last years team right now-

One more shooter to space the floor and this team is lethal.  Hauser for 15 mins a game sure would be nice right now

BIG GAME Thursday-   Ring out ahoya!!!!!

[MUfan12]

One more shooter to space the floor and this team is lethal. 

They do, but it's not like these guys can't make shots. Just need to do a better job of moving the basketball. Right now it sticks too much in several spots. They've had precious few outside shots that have come in rhythm.

[Tugg Speedman]

FWIW, both Carlino and Lockett were playing their first games as MU players.  Therefore, I completely agree that assessments of NEW players - either frosh, who are just getting used to the college game, or transfers, who are just getting used to a new coach and atmosphere - mean very little before Thanksgiving.

But for returning players - especially those with considerable game time experience - even early games can be cause for concern.  Duane and Luke have been up and down, so I remain optimistic that they will become more consistent...but I'm getting pretty concerned by what I'm seeing from JJJ.

Following on this highlighted part. The comments that Ellenson is "not ready" for the NBA.  That is ridiculous.  His draft status, should he come out this year, will be determined by how he plays in February and March.  These games will have ZERO bearing on it.

[GooooMarquette]

Following on this highlighted part. The comments that Ellenson is "not ready" for the NBA.  That is ridiculous.  His draft status, should he come out this year, will be determined by how he plays in February and March.  These games will have ZERO bearing on it.

Agree.

[Tugg Speedman]

What it means is we are a bad team with considerable upside. Whether or not that upside will be realized is unclear. What is clear is that Wojo must be going absolutely out of his mind with this band  of undecipled group of warriors.

Huh!

I see a bunch of freshman, not an undisciplined group.  When your PG and leading scorer are Freshman this is exactly what you get.

I guess we were a bad team three years ago when we lost to Green Bay (as opposed to having a bad night).

[bilsu]

NJIT ended up being a much better team then people gave them credit for. They ended up winning 20 games and losing in the championship game of their post season tournament. Either the CBI or the other one that nobody pays attention to.

[Galway Eagle]

Huh!

I see a bunch of freshman, not an undisciplined group.  When your PG and leading scorer are Freshman this is exactly what you get.

I guess we were a bad team three years ago when we lost to Green Bay (as opposed to having a bad night).

At that part of the year I thought we were pretty bad actually. We really kicked it up in conference but we lost on the Rotnei Clarke miracle shot, we got completely outclassed by Florida, had struggled with a terrible USC team and then lost to UW-GB (then turned around and struggled with a pretty bad LSU team as well). At that point of the year I think we were pretty bad. 

[Eldon]

So what you're saying, Hberg, is that we now need 5 and a half years to evaluate a coach.

Great OP, though.  Good stuff.

[Tugg Speedman]

So what you're saying, Hberg, is that we now need 5 and a half years to evaluate a coach.

Great OP, though.  Good stuff.

No ... we need 10 to 15 games to evaluate a team.  Cannot do that after two games.

[Class71]

Huh!

I see a bunch of freshman, not an undisciplined group.  When your PG and leading scorer are Freshman this is exactly what you get.

I guess we were a bad team three years ago when we lost to Green Bay (as opposed to having a bad night).

We agree, because of freshman , in part, we saw poor execution and discipline.

Were we good against Belmont?  Will we be good against Iowa? Let's see.

What I am saying is, so far, we have major issues, particularly on D and protecting the rock.  It takes discipline to play D,  to protect the ball and share on offense (not chucking up bad 3's) and not worry about an NCAA contract. Do agree it is largely because of freshman but our major turnover contributor was not a freshman.

Also agree with the talent on this team our future may be very bright but until then Wojo has his hands full.

Three years ago was an entirely different situation with a much more seasoned team. There is no comparison here.

[MUEng92]

Dumb plays were definitely not limited to freshman last night.  All classes took part in those.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Did Jesus grant miracles before he learned to walk?

[Eldon]

No ... we need 10 to 15 games to evaluate a team.  Cannot do that after two games.

My bad, man.  I should have used teal.

Anyway, yes I agree.

[GoldenZebra]

Despite the fact that its only 2 games in, with a inexperienced and young team/coach, people will still complain.

[Tugg Speedman]

Despite the fact that its only 2 games in, with a inexperienced and young team/coach, people will still complain.

I was out of the country the day of the Valley City Exhibition game.  I first looked at the game thread here and honestly thought we lost based on the comments.  Then I dug up the box score and found we won by something like 37 points.

This is a fan board, only complaints are allowed.

[brandx]

No ... we need 10 to 15 games to evaluate a team.  Cannot do that after two games.

Look for the humor before you answer. He wasn't being serious.