Another Big East Expansion Discussion

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Who said anyone was going by US News Rankings?  Holy Cross and Fordham have sterling reputations academically, rankings or no rankings.  And the whole thrust of my argument is that if you associate yourself with academically superior institutions, your academic reputation will become superior as well.  That's why I would rather associate with schools that are better than ours rather than schools that are the same or slightly worse.

No one is saying that Dayton and SLU aren't good schools, but they certainly aren't elite academic schools or elite basketball schools.  At least with Fordham and Holy Cross you would get elite academic catholic institutions.

I personally give zero fu**s about academics as it pertains to Marquette basketball and the teams in their conference.  I am certain I am not alone there.

I'd take two horsesh*t academic schools into the BE that are elite basketball schools (not really any out there that fit that mold, and without football), but the point still stands.  I'd take Cinci and Memphis over Fordham and Holy Cross every single time, without a second thought.

[GooooMarquette]

No one is saying that Dayton and SLU aren't good schools, but they certainly aren't elite academic schools or elite basketball schools.  At least with Fordham and Holy Cross you would get elite academic catholic institutions.

I think your biggest problem is considering Fordham an "elite" academic school, while acting as though SLU isn't.  They're both very good schools, and any difference between the two would widely be perceived as inconsequential.

[Dawson Rental]

Who said anyone was going by US News Rankings?  Holy Cross and Fordham have sterling reputations academically, rankings or no rankings.  And the whole thrust of my argument is that if you associate yourself with academically superior institutions, your academic reputation will become superior as well.  That's why I would rather associate with schools that are better than ours rather than schools that are the same or slightly worse.

No one is saying that Dayton and SLU aren't good schools, but they certainly aren't elite academic schools or elite basketball schools.  At least with Fordham and Holy Cross you would get elite academic catholic institutions.

I'm starting to wonder whether you feel that your Marquette degree isn't prestigious enough.  I'm not really trying to insult, that's just how your argument is hitting me.

[KipsBayEagle]

I'm starting to wonder whether you feel that your Marquette degree isn't prestigious enough.  I'm not really trying to insult, that's just how your argument is hitting me.

I don't agree with that characterization.  As a graduate of Marquette University (Not Marquette Basketball) I am much more concerned with Marquette's Academic standing than its' basketball standing.  I feel that the best interests of Marquette University are to align itself with the best Academic Schools possible that fit our unique profile (small, private, Catholic).  I feel that the value of a Marquette Degree (you can call that "prestige" if you want to) is most enhanced by being included with those schools.

You can certainly make a compelling argument (I am sure many would agree with it) that it is more beneficial to include schools that also have excelled in Men's Basketball.  You can make a strong argument that a strong basketball conference not only increases revenue, but also increases exposure that promotes enhanced academics and campus life.

But to say that someone who wants their University to support adding academically superior schools because that person feels that their degree isn't prestigious enough is not only shallow, but hypocritical. 

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I don't agree with that characterization.  As a graduate of Marquette University (Not Marquette Basketball) I am much more concerned with Marquette's Academic standing than its' basketball standing.  I feel that the best interests of Marquette University are to align itself with the best Academic Schools possible that fit our unique profile (small, private, Catholic).  I feel that the value of a Marquette Degree (you can call that "prestige" if you want to) is most enhanced by being included with those schools.

You can certainly make a compelling argument (I am sure many would agree with it) that it is more beneficial to include schools that also have excelled in Men's Basketball.  You can make a strong argument that a strong basketball conference not only increases revenue, but also increases exposure that promotes enhanced academics and campus life.

But to say that someone who wants their University to support adding academically superior schools because that person feels that their degree isn't prestigious enough is not only shallow, but hypocritical.

You're on a marquette basketball fan board in the offseason. Most people here care a great deal for the basketball program, and while I have zero qualms about my Marquette degree, what ties me most to the school is the basketball program. Align with schools like Fordham and Holy Cross, and before long the Marquette basketball program won't even be feasible to watch if you don't live in Milwaukee.

If the Big East is going to expand, it needs to first or foremost add schools with elite basketball programs. Obviously having good academics would be a nice plus, it shouldn't be the bar.

[brewcity77]

I don't agree with that characterization.  As a graduate of Marquette University (Not Marquette Basketball) I am much more concerned with Marquette's Academic standing than its' basketball standing.  I feel that the best interests of Marquette University are to align itself with the best Academic Schools possible that fit our unique profile (small, private, Catholic).  I feel that the value of a Marquette Degree (you can call that "prestige" if you want to) is most enhanced by being included with those schools.

You can certainly make a compelling argument (I am sure many would agree with it) that it is more beneficial to include schools that also have excelled in Men's Basketball.  You can make a strong argument that a strong basketball conference not only increases revenue, but also increases exposure that promotes enhanced academics and campus life.

But to say that someone who wants their University to support adding academically superior schools because that person feels that their degree isn't prestigious enough is not only shallow, but hypocritical.

SMH

Okay...the reality is, any discussion of schools like Fordham or Holy Cross is, well, academic. Those schools will NEVER be added. Any additions made will be because of what they add fiscally to the athletic contract the league has with Fox. End of story. You may as well argue about whether we should be trying to poach Columbia and Penn from the Ivy League for all the merit the topic of academics has in this thread.

It might make a difference if you are differentiating with a school like Memphis, but to act like the academic merits of Fordham, Holy Cross, Gonzaga, Dayton, and SLU are relevant is frankly laughable.

[Dawson Rental]

I don't agree with that characterization.  As a graduate of Marquette University (Not Marquette Basketball) I am much more concerned with Marquette's Academic standing than its' basketball standing.  I feel that the best interests of Marquette University are to align itself with the best Academic Schools possible that fit our unique profile (small, private, Catholic).  I feel that the value of a Marquette Degree (you can call that "prestige" if you want to) is most enhanced by being included with those schools.

You can certainly make a compelling argument (I am sure many would agree with it) that it is more beneficial to include schools that also have excelled in Men's Basketball.  You can make a strong argument that a strong basketball conference not only increases revenue, but also increases exposure that promotes enhanced academics and campus life.

But to say that someone who wants their University to support adding academically superior schools because that person feels that their degree isn't prestigious enough is not only shallow, but hypocritical.

I was equating prestige of a degree with the value of a degree.  I think most people do.  I honestly don't understand how anything I said could be construed as being either shallow or hypocritical.  You didn't bother to make an argument for either point of view.  You just threw them out there as accusations.

The possibility of adding Holy Cross to the Big East illustrates why your suggestion is nonsensical.  You say that the Big East should invite them so that conference schools are associated with "the best academic schools possible".  However, Holy Cross, as a member of the Patriot League, currently associates itself with a group of schools about which has been said "Outside of the Ivy League, it is the most selective group of higher education institutions in NCAA Division I".  So, by accepting an invitation to the Big East, Holy Cross would be disassociating itself with more selective (and hence more prestigious) schools in favor of being in a stronger athletic conference.  So, by accepting a Big East invitation, Holy Cross would be disproving your theory about why Holy Cross should be a desirable addition to the Big East in the first place.