2015-16 NFC North/NFL thread

[JWags85]

They never are. It wasn't his fault when he threw one in the 1st game either.

Just think about it. He throws more INTs every game than Rodgers has thrown in the last 2 1/2 years at Lambeau Field. That is why the Bears are losers. It's not the coach, it's not the OC, it's not the receivers, it's not the game plan. It is Jay.

It's amazing that the defense never makes a great play against AR or that GB receivers never make a mistake on a route..

Good god, can we stop this?  It pains me to say it but Rodgers is probably the best player in the league, among discussions for best ever to play the position.  Its stupid and unfair to Cutler.  There is middle ground between saying something silly like "Cutler is a top 5 QB" and ridiculous comparisons to Rodgers and when found lacking, ascribing it to that being the reason the Bears have lost.  Again, they were down 21-14 before the pick and Cutler was perfect.

[brandx]

Good god, can we stop this?  It pains me to say it but Rodgers is probably the best player in the league, among discussions for best ever to play the position.  Its stupid and unfair to Cutler.  There is middle ground between saying something silly like "Cutler is a top 5 QB" and ridiculous comparisons to Rodgers and when found lacking, ascribing it to that being the reason the Bears have lost.  Again, they were down 21-14 before the pick and Cutler was perfect.

I only attack Jay when the apologists say it isn't his fault.

They erred by keeping him this year - they would have been better off letting him go and signing two good defensive players with that money. Then with a high pick next year, they start over at QB.

Their GM needs to talk to Epstein and Hoyer about rebuilding a team. Either that or live in perpetual mediocrity. The Bears need players - lots of them. Jay makes no difference to the team whether he plays bad or good. He just guarantees continued mediocrity and nothing more. It is ludicrous to me for a team to pay $18 mil for a QB who probably doesn't rank in the top 20 in the league.

Sign a Ryan Fitpatrick type for a quarter of Jay's salary. They are very comparable QBs as far as what they can add to your team.

[jesmu84]

I only attack Jay when the apologists say it isn't his fault.

They erred by keeping him this year - they would have been better off letting him go and signing two good defensive players with that money. Then with a high pick next year, they start over at QB.

Their GM needs to talk to Epstein and Hoyer about rebuilding a team. Either that or live in perpetual mediocrity. The Bears need players - lots of them. Jay makes no difference to the team whether he plays bad or good. He just guarantees continued mediocrity and nothing more. It is ludicrous to me for a team to pay $18 mil for a QB who probably doesn't rank in the top 20 in the league.

Sign a Ryan Fitpatrick type for a quarter of Jay's salary. They are very comparable QBs as far as what they can add to your team.

I'm pretty sure they couldn't just "let him go" this past off-season and not pay him.

[wadesworld]

http://www.tmz.com/2015/09/21/marshawn-lynch-allegedly-threatens-13-year-old-boy-family-says/

Classy.

[brandx]

I'm pretty sure they couldn't just "let him go" this past off-season and not pay him.

You might be right - I think two years were guaranteed. I was thinking this was the 3rd, but it probably is only the 2nd.

[jesmu84]

You might be right - I think two years were guaranteed. I was thinking this was the 3rd, but it probably is only the 2nd.

Yea. But your general point is still right. And dish even said earlier that the bears shopped cutler around this off season

[jsglow]

I'm pretty sure they couldn't just "let him go" this past off-season and not pay him.

No way the Bears could have moved Jay this year because of the contract.  I'm no Cutler fan but he's actually been playing reasonably well this year.  So far the Bears have played 2 playoff teams.  Winning either game would have been considered a significant upset.  Next week they'll get smoked at Seattle.  But they are on a much better track toward the future even if the results don't show it immediately.  Problem is that right now their talent is at the bottom of the division, probably by a fairly wide margin.  But this is a product of the past, not current leadership.  And remember, I'm a huge Packer fan so this isn't some Bears home cooking.

[brandx]

No way the Bears could have moved Jay this year because of the contract.  I'm no Cutler fan but he's actually been playing reasonably well this year.  So far the Bears have played 2 playoff teams. 

But they are on a much better track toward the future even if the results don't show it immediately.  Problem is that right now their talent is at the bottom of the division, probably by a fairly wide margin.  But this is a product of the past, not current leadership.  And remember, I'm a huge Packer fan so this isn't some Bears home cooking.

But, he still three game-changing INTs in both games.

And I agree with your 2nd paragraph completely. That is why they can't have $18 mil invested in someone who is not part of the future. $18 mil would get you 2 pretty good defensive players who will be part of the future.

Depends on their mindset, I guess. Rebuild like the Brewers have done and wallow in mediocrity for the most part or rebuild like the Cubs have done - burn it down and build from the ashes.

[jesmu84]

But, he still three game-changing INTs in both games.

And I agree with your 2nd paragraph completely. That is why they can't have $18 mil invested in someone who is not part of the future. $18 mil would get you 2 pretty good defensive players who will be part of the future.

Depends on their mindset, I guess. Rebuild like the Brewers have done and wallow in mediocrity for the most part or rebuild like the Cubs have done - burn it down and build from the ashes.

Is that feasible in the NFL? Players get injured/don't pan out and you can't stock talent in the minors. Coaching staffs are much more complex. Putting out a football product and readily admitting you aren't trying for a few years I feel like wouldn't go over well in a sport where you only play 16 times a year.

[brandx]

Is that feasible in the NFL? Players get injured/don't pan out and you can't stock talent in the minors. Coaching staffs are much more complex. Putting out a football product and readily admitting you aren't trying for a few years I feel like wouldn't go over well in a sport where you only play 16 times a year.

You're right, Jes.

I was using it more in the context of having big $$$ players on the roster who are not part of the future.

[GGGG]

The only real way you can get better in the NFL is to start drafting well.  And the Bears drafts have been TERRIBLE the past few years. 

But it doesn't have to be a long process to become competitive if done well.  21 of the leagues 32 teams have been in the playoffs within the last three years.  It wouldn't be *that* unheard of for the Bears to get there in 2017-18.

[🏀]

Pace isn't off to a great start in the draft department either.

I'd almost feel bad for Bears fans, but I don't.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Pace isn't off to a great start in the draft department either.

I'd almost feel bad for Bears fans, but I don't.

Jury is still out but I said right after draft day that kevin white is a terrible pick. How you don't go defense first round is still beyond me. Yes I know I don't get paid to do the job but still.

[DegenerateDish]

I didn't get a chance to respond to the replies about the Bears and drafting a QB early, but you guys were correct that you can get a good QB later than the first half of the first round (Brees, Brady, Rodgers). My point was the worse you are, the more access to players you have in the draft. All that said, as Sultan pointed out, the Bears have been as bad as you can be at drafting for a really really long time now. It doesn't matter if they draft early (Chris Williams), mid first (McClellin) or late first (Carimi).

The Bears need to be really bad this year. If you're not going to make the playoffs, you're far better off being awful than mediocre. The Bears seem well on their way to that. Might have to start watching a lot of Cal football at this rate.

Meant to say this before the season started, but I thought the Colts were going to be very mediocre this year. To me, they are a fascinating organization to watch right now. They have the most mediocre roster in the league (sans Luck). Their o line is at best average, skill position as average as it gets (put TY Hilton on the Browns, he's average). Worse part is, they haven't even paid Luck yet. You could argue, they should trade Luck (they absolutely won't), but Luck is going to occupy such a large % of their cap soon, that they are going to have to draft well.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I didn't get a chance to respond to the replies about the Bears and drafting a QB early, but you guys were correct that you can get a good QB later than the first half of the first round (Brees, Brady, Rodgers). My point was the worse you are, the more access to players you have in the draft. All that said, as Sultan pointed out, the Bears have been as bad as you can be at drafting for a really really long time now. It doesn't matter if they draft early (Chris Williams), mid first (McClellin) or late first (Carimi).

The Bears need to be really bad this year. If you're not going to make the playoffs, you're far better off being awful than mediocre. The Bears seem well on their way to that. Might have to start watching a lot of Cal football at this rate.

Meant to say this before the season started, but I thought the Colts were going to be very mediocre this year. To me, they are a fascinating organization to watch right now. They have the most mediocre roster in the league (sans Luck). Their o line is at best average, skill position as average as it gets (put TY Hilton on the Browns, he's average). Worse part is, they haven't even paid Luck yet. You could argue, they should trade Luck (they absolutely won't), but Luck is going to occupy such a large % of their cap soon, that they are going to have to draft well.

I remember watching Goff freshman year against northwestern and not being that impressed and last year I went to the NU, Cal game and a more duel threat quarterback got a majority of the snaps. Has he really improved that much?

[DegenerateDish]

I think Goff will probably end up going #1 overall, just a hunch at this point. I think he'll definitely turn pro, because the 2017 NFL draft is absolutely loaded up front, and 2018 NFL draft is going to be stacked at QB (pencil in Rosen as the top pick).

[MU82]

I agree with this comment, in a vacuum. That is about the Cutler-est scenario possible. However...

The pick-six wasn't necessarily on Cutler. Bennett ran a stutter route designed to get the DB to close in, before the receiver continues on his route. Cutler threw to Bennett on the stutter and when he then continued, the ball was behind him. Even Cutler's release was awkward because he presumably saw Bennett start moving as he was releasing the ball. Having said that, we don't know if the play was designed that way and Cutler botched it or if Bennett faked out his own QB. AZ was in man coverage so Bennett shouldn't have sat down, which makes me think it was a misread by Cutler but Jefferson said that he didn't think Cutler knew what Bennett was doing so who knows? Either way, it was very Bears-like.

I hear what you're saying, but they do tend to not be Cutler's fault a lot.

[MU82]

That is why the Bears are losers. It's not the coach, it's not the OC, it's not the receivers, it's not the game plan. It is Jay.

You know I agree with you on many things -- including about Cutler being a loser -- but this is far too simplistic and I'm pretty sure you know it.

One of the things I used to get a kick out of when the Bears and Packers played was when TV would put up a graphic listing the QBs who had started for the Bears during the years of Favre's consecutive-games streak. It was 20+, if I'm not mistaken.

The vast, vast, VAST majority of them were big-time losers -- and none of them was Jay, who didn't join the Bears until after Brett was long gone from Cheezland.

Since Ditka lost the team in his final season, the Bears have had lots of QBs come and go and most have sucked and the Bears have lost a ton. The only few years they've been any good at all were when they had dominant defenses and a good dose of smoke-and-mirrors luck.

Can't blame Cutler for the Bears being a hot mess coming up on 25 years now.

[brandx]

Worse part is, they haven't even paid Luck yet. You could argue, they should trade Luck (they absolutely won't), but Luck is going to occupy such a large % of their cap soon, that they are going to have to draft well.

Good point. And that will be Seattle's problem next. When Wilson, Wagner, Sherman, etc. were low $$$ players, they could go get guys they needed to fit in around them. It's a little different now that they've given out some big contracts. Chancellor got paid and already is jealous of the other guys getting paid.

Not many guys can do what Thompson does.

[GooooMarquette]

You know I agree with you on many things -- including about Cutler being a loser -- but this is far too simplistic and I'm pretty sure you know it.

One of the things I used to get a kick out of when the Bears and Packers played was when TV would put up a graphic listing the QBs who had started for the Bears during the years of Favre's consecutive-games streak. It was 20+, if I'm not mistaken.

The vast, vast, VAST majority of them were big-time losers -- and none of them was Jay, who didn't join the Bears until after Brett was long gone from Cheezland.

Since Ditka lost the team in his final season, the Bears have had lots of QBs come and go and most have sucked and the Bears have lost a ton. The only few years they've been any good at all were when they had dominant defenses and a good dose of smoke-and-mirrors luck.

Can't blame Cutler for the Bears being a hot mess coming up on 25 years now.

I agree that Cutler isn't the worst of the bunch.  IMHO, he gets the most criticism because he's getting paid as though he is the savior when he clearly isn't.

[MerrittsMustache]

That is why they can't have $18 mil invested in someone who is not part of the future. $18 mil would get you 2 pretty good defensive players who will be part of the future.

Whether the Bears kept Cutler or not, they were going to take a $16.5M cap hit this season (unless they found a trade partner, which wasn't happening). Yes, the could have signed at least 3 quality defensive FAs for $16.5M, but they didn't have it to spend. Keeping Cutler was the only option, especially when you consider that they have no young back-up on the roster who could be their future starter.

After Clausen gets destroyed in Seattle on Sunday, former 6th-rounder David Fales should get the starts until Cutler returns. Clausen isn't in the future plans so why not see if Fales has what it takes to at least become a serviceable back-up to the QB of the future.

[MerrittsMustache]

Jury is still out but I said right after draft day that kevin white is a terrible pick. How you don't go defense first round is still beyond me. Yes I know I don't get paid to do the job but still.

Vic Beasley would have been an excellent fit in Fangio's D.

[brandx]

Vic Beasley would have been an excellent fit in Fangio's D.

Agree. On a bad team, if there is no QB available, go for an impact defensive player or offensive lineman. Receivers and RBs are a dime-a dozen.

That's what Frisco did to re-build.

[GGGG]

Agree. On a bad team, if there is no QB available, go for an impact defensive player or offensive lineman. Receivers and RBs are a dime-a dozen.

That's what Frisco did to re-build.

And the Cowboys.  Their improvement last year had almost everything to do with them making solid OL drafts.

[wadesworld]

And the Cowboys.  Their improvement last year had almost everything to do with them making solid OL drafts.

Exactly.  They committed to an O Line that would keep the quarterback upright (well, most of the time, I guess) and in turn were able to balance their offense.