Why can't we fill 13 scholarships

[brewcity77]

I am going out on a limb and saying that we aren't going to have two players transferring halfway through the year this year.  I am rather confident that we won't have any.

I certainly don't think we will have two, but when more than half your team is freshmen, it's entirely possible we could have one. Not expecting it, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. And injuries happen. We had them last year and most teams have a couple throughout the season.

Wojo may have only recruited 2 of his guys last year, but this year he has 5 guys that have never gone through a season with him. We have no idea how that will work out. I suspect it will be fine, but I'm a pragmatist and feel you are better off preparing for the worst than just expecting the best.

[wadesworld]

I think you missed the point ... we have 10 players now, like last year.  Then a transfer (Burton) and a few injuries and last year we were down to 6 scholarship players at one point.  The fear is the same thing happens this year.

The comparison is about numbers, not quality.

No, I got the point.  I am saying exactly what Sultan and Glow are saying.  It's an apples to oranges comparison.  Dawson and Burton signed up to play for one coach.  Another guy was coaching them last year.  This year most of our players will have been committing to the guy that will be coaching them, with the guys who did not having already played for this coach for a season, so they know what he's about.

I am going out on a limb and saying that we aren't going to have two players transferring halfway through the year this year.  I am rather confident that we won't have any.

The numbers comparison is completely invalid.  Last year at this time Wojo had exactly 2 guys he recruited in Sandy and Carlino.  This year he has 10 guys and I'm including holdovers who are now entering their second year under the new coach and didn't leave.

[Tugg Speedman]

Agreed.  It was Wojo's first year as head coach, so the players had no idea to expect.  Additionally, Wojo didn't recruit either of the guys who transferred.

Very different situation this season.

I agree that transfers are unlikely.  HE broke his hand in the spring.  Luke had shoulder surgery.  So two of the ten are coming back from major setbacks.

Two injuries and the typical winter flu bug and we are dressing 6 or 7 scholarship players. 

Those are the numbers I worry about and wish Wojo would have found more bodies ... any body is better than an empty chair. (no "next man up" as we have no next man!!)

That is the risk we will worry about all season.

[jsglow]

No, I got the point.  I am saying exactly what Sultan and Glow are saying.  It's an apples to oranges comparison.  Dawson and Burton signed up to play for one coach.  Another guy was coaching them last year.  This year most of our players will have been committing to the guy that will be coaching them, with the guys who did not having already played for this coach for a season, so they know what he's about.

But it is fair to say that the 'homesick Frosh' syndrome does exist.  So in my mind the
over/under on a midyear transfer is about 0.5 but certainly not the 2 we saw last Christmas.

[jsglow]

I agree that transfers are unlikely.  HE broke his hand in the spring.  Luke had shoulder surgery.  So two of the ten are coming back from major setbacks.

Two injuries and the typical winter flu bug and we are dressing 6 or 7 scholarship players. 

Those are the numbers I worry about and wish Wojo would have found more bodies ... any body is better than an empty chair.

That is the risk we will worry about all season.

Sure.  But go back through MU's history and point to a time excluding last year when 10 scholly players ever morphed into 6 for any length of time.  Might there be a night or two when we dress 8?  I'll buy that.

[brewcity77]

Sure.  But go back through MU's history and point to a time excluding last year when 10 scholly players ever morphed into 6 for any length of time.  Might there be a night or two when we dress 8?  I'll buy that.

Like you said, a transfer is a possibility. Not a guarantee, but not certainly not out of the realm of possibility. If we get a transfer and a recurrence of the aforementioned injuries (Luke and Henry) and suddenly we're incredibly short handed (figuratively and literally).

I'm not saying it would be the end of the world, but I do feel there was reason to at least try to add 1-2 more players that we probably could have had with more aggressive recruiting after Miller and Lee went elsewhere.

It's all academic now. Hopefully we don't see any transfers or any significant injuries to key players. I just feel there's a benefit to bringing in bench players as well as starters. Just because we missed out on the home run recruits of Miller and Lee doesn't mean there weren't still valuable guys out there.

[MUchamp22]

He hasn't filled the roster out because we need to get some sort of balance in the roster construction. Having no seniors isn't ideal and there is no need to bring in graduate one year rentals, unless they are great, because they are going to block your young guys from playing. Roster construction is tricky and every coach is a little different. That being said I would've liked to see one grad transfer and one freshman redshirt to even out the classes more.

[GGGG]

any body is better than an empty chair. (no "next man up" as we have no next man!!)

Disagree with that completely.

[Tugg Speedman]

Sure.  But go back through MU's history and point to a time excluding last year when 10 scholly players ever morphed into 6 for any length of time.  Might there be a night or two when we dress 8?  I'll buy that.

That's why you need 13!  Wojo recruited exactly zero Jucos or Grad transfers to fill out the roster.  Some of them might have been interested if Wojo asked.

That's why a thin roster next season (should it happen) is on Wojo and purely on Wojo.  He needlessly put next season at risk by not filling out the roster.

(For the record I love Wojo and I'm ecstatic he is our HC.  I just think this was an error on his part and it came about because he really thought he was going to land Miller and/or Lee and when he doid not, he had no plan B).

[GGGG]

That's why you need 13!  Wojo recruited exactly zero Jucos or Grad transfers to fill out the roster.  Some of them might have been interested if Wojo asked.

That's why a thin roster next season (should it happen) is on Wojo and purely on Wojo.  He needlessly put next season at risk by not filling out the roster.

(For the record I love Wojo and I'm ecstatic he is our HC.  I just think this was an error on his part and it came about because he really thought he was going to land Miller and/or Lee and when he doid not, he had no plan B).

You have no clue if he had a plan B or not.  None.  Stop stating things as fact that aren't fact.

[Dawson Rental]

Carefully here ... when I suggested Wojo misjudged on graduate transfers Miller and/or Lee everyone here lost their mind.

But to your larger point.  If no one gets hurt, it is not an issue.  If players get hurt, sick (hopefully not transfer) and we are again down to 7 or 6 players last season, put this on Wojo for not filling out the roster.

It figures that you'd post to support another cry baby.

[Dawson Rental]

Agree.  We start at 10, and any one of a hundred combinations of injuries, illnesses, transfers, academics, etc. will have us right back to six or seven.  Never, ever self-impose scholarship penalties on the program for nothing more than failing to recruit a full roster.  Hopefully this is just part of the re-build and it's the last year we see it.

I think you missed the point ... we have 10 players now, like last year.  Then a transfer (Burton) and a few injuries and last year we were down to 6 scholarship players at one point.  The fear is the same thing happens this year.

The comparison is about numbers, not quality.

Yes, because the talent, commitment, and potential criminality of guys recruited doesn't really matter to you, I guess.  And team chemistry is waaay overrated, just check out Seton Hall last season for proof of that.  Oh, I almost forgot, you can always recruit guys and then cut them after one year when you can get someone that you really want.  That's just how it goes in Division I.  By the way, when we recruit these filler guys do we expect to get them telling them the truth that they're one year roster filler or does the coaching staff lie to them in order to get their commitment? 

[Spotcheck Billy]

What does it matter? With our weak OOC schedule this team can't make the NCAA tourney anyway!

[Tugg Speedman]

You have no clue if he had a plan B or not.  None.  Stop stating things as fact that aren't fact.

If he did, it produced nothing.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Well, there are 3 walk-ons listed on the roster.  If Wojo gives two of them scholarships, then all 13 will be filled!  Yay!  Problem solved.

Seriously though, last year was a Murphy's law situation.  Two mid-year transfers and two injuries and being short three scholarship players...that's really a lot that has to happen.  Could it happen again, sure.  Could we get a bad case of the flu, sure.  There's no way to know.

But like someone else said we have no idea if Wojo had a plan B or not after Lee and Miller.  If he made inquiries that didn't share mutual interest what can he do.  Especially when he might not be able to offer the say playing time another school can.  "Geez Coach Wojo, I know you need a backup big man but School B wants me to start."

And Wojo went after transfers after missing out on Lee and Miller.  He got Rowsey but missed on Washington and Nichols.  We'd be lauding Wojo if he landed Nichols instead of just taking warm bodies.  So let's see who Wojo gets in 2016 before lamenting over not having the next Yous Mbao on the end of the bench.

In a perfect world Wojo would use all 13 schollies every year on high major caliber players and MU would never have any transfers.  But I know at some point there will be transfers; there will be years where not all 13 spots are filled.  It happens.

[wadesworld]

If he did, it produced nothing.

You have a really, really hard time understanding that coaches don't simply get to pick what kids he wants to join their team in college basketball.  Wojo didn't have his choice of Miller, Lee, Nichols, etc. who were all on their knees begging Wojo to bring them in, but Wojo just decided "Nope, I'm going with 10 schollys this season guys!"  Wojo can't make players commit to him.  These players get their choice.  I'm not sure you understand that.

[Earl Tatum]

Thoughts----I think MU's recruiting reputation was hurt by Buzz. Hopefully Wojo will restore
our reputation as a Big-Time major BB school. With 10 or 11 players on the roster, players know they will get their chance to play. Yes, another big man for this year would really help. Wish we
could find one. Wisco seems to. (Van Vliet). We have to get AMIR COFFEY to go with Hauser.
Need a big man in 2016 class. In 2017 KOBE KING and JORDAN POOLE are real. THEO JOHN
is a player. Disappointed in not landing Nichols.  Not sure what year. Just thoughts, so lay it on me.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

If I had to guess plan A was achieved.  We are now dickering about supplements to plan A - which is get more game-ready or top talent if available.  We tried and lost out to very good schools also trying to do the same thing.  If we were coming off a sweet 16 we probably would have re-loaded with some 1 year rentals...but we weren't. 

If there is a 'problem' its that Wojo had to basically recruit an entire new team and was faced with poor trade-offs (i.e. all freshman unbalancing the class or taking a bunch of transfers which doesn't help this year and makes us unavailable options for some top 16/17 talent). 

We will see how it plays out but it seems like a fine strategy to balance putting up some W's in 2015/16 and building for the long-term.    Who knows if they make some noise this year we may be in a stronger position for a 1-year rental next year when we get the inevitable end of year transfer.

[Dawson Rental]

I agree. That said, I do feel that Wojo put too many eggs in the Miller/Lee basket. He expected to be able to get at least one if not both of them. When he failed, there didn't seem to be enough legwork done to bring in other targets. Leaving three scholarships open, especially when you haven't seen what 60% of your scholarship players will do at this level for your team, is a very risky proposition.

I can't see how there would have been any harm in going hard after a Rafael Maia, Tomasz Gielo, Anton Grady, Ike Nwamu, Adam Smith, or others as backup plans in case option A doesn't work out. I like what Wojo has done overall, but it does seem like secondary options is not a strong suit of his. If everyone stays healthy, that's fine, but one transfer and a couple injuries could have us just as short handed as we were a year ago.

See Bilsu's post above.

Also, how do you get a grad transfer whose anything less than the best available when you're recruiting him for a position that going to be filled by a freshman that was rated as highly as 5th by one recruiting service?  Grad transfers don't move to sit on the bench somewhere else.

[naginiF]

If I had to guess plan A was achieved.  We are now dickering about supplements to plan A - which is get more game-ready or top talent if available.  We tried and lost out to very good schools also trying to do the same thing.  If we were coming off a sweet 16 we probably would have re-loaded with some 1 year rentals...but we weren't. 

If there is a 'problem' its that Wojo had to basically recruit an entire new team and was faced with poor trade-offs (i.e. all freshman unbalancing the class or taking a bunch of transfers which doesn't help this year and makes us unavailable options for some top 16/17 talent). 

We will see how it plays out but it seems like a fine strategy to balance putting up some W's in 2015/16 and building for the long-term.    Who knows if they make some noise this year we may be in a stronger position for a 1-year rental next year when we get the inevitable end of year transfer.

This makes a ton of sense.  It lacks accusations of gross incompetence, lying to the players, and throwing folks under the bus but it makes sense

[Tugg Speedman]

If I had to guess plan A was achieved.  We are now dickering about supplements to plan A - which is get more game-ready or top talent if available.  We tried and lost out to very good schools also trying to do the same thing.  If we were coming off a sweet 16 we probably would have re-loaded with some 1 year rentals...but we weren't. 

If there is a 'problem' its that Wojo had to basically recruit an entire new team and was faced with poor trade-offs (i.e. all freshman unbalancing the class or taking a bunch of transfers which doesn't help this year and makes us unavailable options for some top 16/17 talent). 

We will see how it plays out but it seems like a fine strategy to balance putting up some W's in 2015/16 and building for the long-term.    Who knows if they make some noise this year we may be in a stronger position for a 1-year rental next year when we get the inevitable end of year transfer.

I think the players that Wojo recruited are great.  If everyone plays to their expected abilities, and no major injuries or setbacks occur, next year can be a tourney team.

But we know some players will have down years (others will have up years) and injuries are part of the business.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That's why you need 13!  Wojo recruited exactly zero Jucos or Grad transfers to fill out the roster.  Some of them might have been interested if Wojo asked.

Wojo did ask. Not everyone on the list Brew mentioned, but feelers were put out to other grad transfers. They weren't interested. Believe it or not, we don't have a lot to offer a grad transfer. "Hey, how would you like to come off the bench for a team that finished 13-19 last season and lost a majority of its production?" Quality grad transfers typically move to either get A. More playing time or B. Play for a winning team. Marquette couldn't offer either of those things to most of the grad transfers out there. Can you appreciate how hard of a sell that must have been?

Marquette has 0 seniors this year. We have 12 scholarship players signed up for 16-17. Assuming a max of 2 departures, (Henry going pro and maybe one transfer) that only leaves Wojo with 1-3 scholarships to fill. Something tells me we will get our 13 scholarship players next season.

[GGGG]

Wojo did ask. Not everyone on the list Brew mentioned, but feelers were put out to other grad transfers. They weren't interested. Believe it or not, we don't have a lot to offer a grad transfer. "Hey, how would you like to come off the bench for a team that finished 13-19 last season and lost a majority of its production?" Quality grad transfers typically move to either get A. More playing time or B. Play for a winning team. Marquette couldn't offer either of those things to most of the grad transfers out there. Can you appreciate how hard of a sell that must have been?

Marquette has 0 seniors this year. We have 12 scholarship players signed up for 16-17. Assuming a max of 2 departures, (Henry going pro and maybe one transfer) that only leaves Wojo with 1-3 scholarships to fill. Something tells me we will get our 13 scholarship players next season.

Exactly.  Getting a body for the sake of simply getting a body isn't always considered desirable.  If basketball players are simply robots without emotion or feeling, it might make sense.  But they aren't.

[brewcity77]

It's not a disaster by any means. But having 10 available players for a season is risky. Hopefully we stay healthy and avoid transfers.

[Tugg Speedman]

It's not a disaster by any means. But having 10 available players for a season is risky. Hopefully we stay healthy and avoid transfers.

+1