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Author Topic: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?  (Read 117853 times)

Benny B

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #575 on: February 03, 2020, 02:19:25 PM »
I'd agree entirely regarding recognizing the past and not letting it cripple you. I love london, it's one of about 4 cities around the globe I could see myself living in permanently. though with England it's not long ago that they were actively oppressing the catholic vote and taking rights away from them, not to mention the orange order is still able to throw a big parade through the catholic neighborhoods in Derry and Belfast. So it seems odd that anyone (particularly a right leaning catholic) would want to say "god bless England". Then double down proclaiming they've pretty much only done good.

I think we're long past hijacking the thread, so I'll say it:

What are the other three cities?
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #576 on: February 03, 2020, 02:47:13 PM »
I think we're long past hijacking the thread, so I'll say it:

What are the other three cities?


The correct question is "what are the other two besides London and Milwaukee?"
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #577 on: February 03, 2020, 02:48:06 PM »
I think we're long past hijacking the thread, so I'll say it:

What are the other three cities?

Chicago, Toronto, Dublin.
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mu03eng

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #578 on: February 03, 2020, 02:59:01 PM »
Chicago, Toronto, Dublin.

I'm going to preface this by saying I love Ireland and I'm trying to get my wife to consider when we retire in 20 years that we move to Doolin and live the good life.

Having said that, I think Dublin is generally overrated as a city. Yes you have access to general Irish culture/experience outside of Dublin but it is a relatively generic European multi-cultural city. I'd put Munich, Salzburg, and Amsterdam well ahead of Dublin on the list of cities
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #579 on: February 03, 2020, 03:03:06 PM »
I'm going to preface this by saying I love Ireland and I'm trying to get my wife to consider when we retire in 20 years that we move to Doolin and live the good life.

Having said that, I think Dublin is generally overrated as a city. Yes you have access to general Irish culture/experience outside of Dublin but it is a relatively generic European multi-cultural city. I'd put Munich, Salzburg, and Amsterdam well ahead of Dublin on the list of cities

I do agree about it being overrated, if I was retiring I'd go cork or back to Galway but my company has an office there so it'd be an easy transition plus I get anxious if I'm not in a big city.
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JWags85

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #580 on: February 03, 2020, 03:15:18 PM »
I do agree about it being overrated, if I was retiring I'd go cork or back to Galway but my company has an office there so it'd be an easy transition plus I get anxious if I'm not in a big city.

Not taking a shot, cause I get your point, but Dublin is smaller than Milwaukee, which I'd never consider a big city, and worlds away from the other truly BIG cities you listed.  Just made me smirk

Galway Eagle

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #581 on: February 03, 2020, 03:32:55 PM »
Not taking a shot, cause I get your point, but Dublin is smaller than Milwaukee, which I'd never consider a big city, and worlds away from the other truly BIG cities you listed.  Just made me smirk

Not saying it's massive, but I'd call it a big city. Also the general culture/feel of it is much more urban than Milwaukee with people on the street and a large international population.
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Cheeks

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #582 on: February 03, 2020, 03:33:18 PM »
They sure have spread racial and ethnic problems.  And famine.  And disease.  And indentured servitude.  And slavery.  And use of concentration camps.  And stealing cultural heritage.  And theft.  And rape.  And murder.  If that's what you mean by civilization then yeah, they've done a lot. 

Their greatest contribution is that their oppression led the the revolution and the rise of democracy.  Their greatest contribution to civilization is oppression.

The history books bleed with the atrocities of the English.

Yup and the Catholic Church has done horrible things...and good things.   Corporations.  Men.  Rich people.  And the USA and every country in the world.   Some people that’s all they focus on.  Wojo wins 8 games but loses 1, that’s all they care about.  English essentially civilize many of the people in the world, but who gives a damn.

Just how some people are, can only find the negatives and they live for it....never happy.
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mu03eng

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #583 on: February 03, 2020, 03:36:01 PM »
Not saying it's massive, but I'd call it a big city. Also the general culture/feel of it is much more urban than Milwaukee with people on the street and a large international population.

It's about square footage.....Dublin is much more dense then Milwaukee even though the population is smaller so it feels bigger.
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buckchuckler

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #584 on: February 03, 2020, 04:13:38 PM »
English essentially civilize many of the people in the world, but who gives a damn.


I'm curious as to how you define this.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #585 on: February 03, 2020, 06:28:38 PM »
I'd agree entirely regarding recognizing the past and not letting it cripple you. I love london, it's one of about 4 cities around the globe I could see myself living in permanently. though with England it's not long ago that they were actively oppressing the catholic vote and taking rights away from them, not to mention the orange order is still able to throw a big parade through the catholic neighborhoods in Derry and Belfast. So it seems odd that anyone (particularly a right leaning catholic) would want to say "god bless England". Then double down proclaiming they've pretty much only done good.

I'm not sure a single person has attempted to make that argument.  You're vilifying England, but seemingly giving a pass to other countries past transgressions.

Best not look into the Belgian Congo rubber trade, American slavery, or the Rape of Nanjing... Just to name a few, and of course we're leaving out Nazi Germany.

My point is that there probably isn't a civilization on Earth that hasn't committed atrocities.  So, singling out England as 'the worst', when the Mongol Empire basically killed 5% of the entire world's population... I mean...

buckchuckler

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #586 on: February 03, 2020, 06:48:15 PM »
I'm not sure a single person has attempted to make that argument.  You're vilifying England, but seemingly giving a pass to other countries past transgressions.

Best not look into the Belgian Congo rubber trade, American slavery, or the Rape of Nanjing... Just to name a few, and of course we're leaving out Nazi Germany.

My point is that there probably isn't a civilization on Earth that hasn't committed atrocities.  So, singling out England as 'the worst', when the Mongol Empire basically killed 5% of the entire world's population... I mean...

Who has done that?  No one else was brought up.  No one said "God Bless the (insert other evil empire here!)"


But really, if anyone had been championing how the Belgians, Mongols, Japanese etc. were so great, their atrocities may have been brought up.  But none of those cultures were relevant to this conversation in any way.

Benny B

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #587 on: February 03, 2020, 06:48:51 PM »
Chicago, Toronto, Dublin.

Well, I nailed two of the three.  I missed on Toronto, but that is a solid choice, eh?

Toronto is Benny’s and the Mrs.’s go-to for a weekend getaway.  Easily a top 5 8.05 city in just about every category. 
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #588 on: February 03, 2020, 07:10:28 PM »
I'm not sure a single person has attempted to make that argument.  You're vilifying England, but seemingly giving a pass to other countries past transgressions.

Best not look into the Belgian Congo rubber trade, American slavery, or the Rape of Nanjing... Just to name a few, and of course we're leaving out Nazi Germany.

My point is that there probably isn't a civilization on Earth that hasn't committed atrocities.  So, singling out England as 'the worst', when the Mongol Empire basically killed 5% of the entire world's population... I mean...

See Buckchucklers response for what I would have said.

It's also worth noting a lot of those other empires mentioned have had their governments overthrown, England is still the same government, until just a few months ago they were still covering for the murder of unarmed civilians peacefully marching for their rights, people like Arlene Foster and Ian Paisley are still regularly voted into power by the DUP despite directly sponsoring N Ireland versions of redlining to keep money out of traditionally catholic neighbourhoods not to mention the connections to the UVF and Orange Order. It's not my job to fight every injustice, just the ones that I have a vested interest in

Well, I nailed two of the three.  I missed on Toronto, but that is a solid choice, eh?

Toronto is Benny’s and the Mrs.’s go-to for a weekend getaway.  Easily a top 5 8.05 city in just about every category. 

Great spot for a weekend getaway, funny how many people forget it's not that far away when thinking of little excursions.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 07:13:36 PM by Galway Eagle »
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buckchuckler

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #589 on: February 03, 2020, 07:15:19 PM »
See Buckchucklers response for what I would have said.

It's also worth noting a lot of those other empires mentioned have had their governments overthrown, England is still the same government, until just a few months ago they were still covering for the murder of unarmed civilians peacefully marching for their rights, people like Arlene Foster and Ian Paisley are still regularly voted into power by the DUP despite directly sponsoring N Ireland versions of redlining to keep money out of traditionally catholic neighbourhoods not to mention the connections to the UVF and Orange Order. It's not my job to fight every injustice, just the ones that I have a vested interest in

Great spot for a weekend getaway, funny how many people forget it's not that far away when thinking of little excursions.

I actually started saying that as well Galway, but decided against it.  Thanks for adding it. 

Hards Alumni

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #590 on: February 03, 2020, 07:33:13 PM »
Who has done that?  No one else was brought up.  No one said "God Bless the (insert other evil empire here!)"


But really, if anyone had been championing how the Belgians, Mongols, Japanese etc. were so great, their atrocities may have been brought up.  But none of those cultures were relevant to this conversation in any way.

So then, just to be clear.  Any sort of pride in any civilization will be met with the same disgust that was thrown at the English?

Let me guess, you're a proud descendant of Ireland?  I probably don't need to ask Galway Eagle if he is.   :P

Galway Eagle

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #591 on: February 03, 2020, 07:51:18 PM »
So then, just to be clear.  Any sort of pride in any civilization will be met with the same disgust that was thrown at the English?

Let me guess, you're a proud descendant of Ireland?  I probably don't need to ask Galway Eagle if he is.   :P

See my comment about recency, and how its still the same government.  I can't speak for him but I have an Irish passport, grew up spending about a quarter of the year there, and did my post grad there so it's a vested interest in the politics of the country.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #592 on: February 03, 2020, 08:11:25 PM »
See my comment about recency, and how its still the same government.  I can't speak for him but I have an Irish passport, grew up spending about a quarter of the year there, and did my post grad there so it's a vested interest in the politics of the country.

So I’m other words you have an admitted personal bias.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Galway Eagle

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #593 on: February 03, 2020, 08:47:30 PM »
So I’m other words you have an admitted personal bias.

Ok you tell me if something like bloody sunday and the consequential cover up warrants a "God bless england"
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buckchuckler

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #594 on: February 03, 2020, 09:52:35 PM »
So then, just to be clear.  Any sort of pride in any civilization will be met with the same disgust that was thrown at the English?

Let me guess, you're a proud descendant of Ireland?  I probably don't need to ask Galway Eagle if he is.   :P

No probably not.  But if someone had said "God Bless Germany", how long would it have taken before someone said, yeah, but...

My guess is not very long. 

And part of my heritage is Irish yes, but not all of it.  I'm a good old American Mutt.  But I am connected with my Irish side.  I have cousins there still who have had some less than pleasant dealings with the British that I won't get into here.  Does that help to shape my opinion?  Sure.  But other things do as well.

I am a student of history.  And along with Wags, I have always been fascinated with English history.  It probably started when I was a kid and loved knights and pirates.  Henry II (and his legacy) is one on the historical figures I find most fascinating. Another is Churchill.  Both men heros and villains in the same body.  Both accomplished great things, and terrible things.  Both analogs for the English.  They have done wonderful things, I mean, I love Dickens and Led Zeppelin.  But they have had painted the world with blood of the oppressed.  For hundreds and hundreds of years.  A record that few other tyrannical regimes can match.  They weren't the Nazis, but the Nazis were in power for 20 years, not 1000.  If you were to look at the British time in India, it would match just about any other level of atrocities in history.

Oh, and let me guess, you have the Union Jack flying outside your house and a picture of Queen Elizabeth on your mantle?  Hmmm, maybe not, but proud descendant of England?

buckchuckler

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #595 on: February 03, 2020, 10:02:45 PM »
So I’m other words you have an admitted personal bias.

Everyone has a personal bias.  To say otherwise is ridiculous.  That doesn't mean you can't look at the history and see what has happened.  Even if you completely take Ireland out of the picture, the Brits still have a long list of atrocities.  You mentioned the opium wars.  I have several times mentioned India.  There are countless other examples, many of which I referred to earlier.  My having Irish ancestry doesn't change any of that.

Hey, I probably wouldn't exist if the Brits didn't do everything possible to exacerbate the famine.  History can't be changed.  But it shouldn't be whitewashed.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #596 on: February 04, 2020, 04:14:15 AM »
Ok you tell me if something like bloody sunday and the consequential cover up warrants a "God bless england"

No I never said anything If the sort. But you have created a metric, with irrelevant criteria such as “it’s the same government,” to paint them a certain way.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #597 on: February 04, 2020, 04:15:57 AM »
Everyone has a personal bias.  To say otherwise is ridiculous.  That doesn't mean you can't look at the history and see what has happened.  Even if you completely take Ireland out of the picture, the Brits still have a long list of atrocities.  You mentioned the opium wars.  I have several times mentioned India.  There are countless other examples, many of which I referred to earlier.  My having Irish ancestry doesn't change any of that.

Hey, I probably wouldn't exist if the Brits didn't do everything possible to exacerbate the famine.  History can't be changed.  But it shouldn't be whitewashed.

Oy. Clearly I didn’t explain myself clearly because that’s not what I was implying.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Galway Eagle

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #598 on: February 04, 2020, 07:36:55 AM »
No I never said anything If the sort. But you have created a metric, with irrelevant criteria such as “it’s the same government,” to paint them a certain way.

I didn't imply you said anything... you said I have a bias, the implication was that I can't possibly be correct that England doesn't deserve such praise from Chico's so I asked you to be the judge of one event. I did not put words into your mouth or anything of the sort.

It's very relevant metric if someone is creating a false equivalency between a fallen empire like Mongolia from thousands of years ago that happens to share the same name with a new country in the region vs a current "kingdom" that has doubled down on defending their atrocities as recently as this past year, which still has many of the same political parties and individuals who helped those atrocities to happen. I'm not sitting here arguing about Oliver Cromwell I'm talking recent things.
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Hards Alumni

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Re: Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?
« Reply #599 on: February 04, 2020, 09:40:19 AM »
No probably not.  But if someone had said "God Bless Germany", how long would it have taken before someone said, yeah, but...

My guess is not very long. 

And part of my heritage is Irish yes, but not all of it.  I'm a good old American Mutt.  But I am connected with my Irish side.  I have cousins there still who have had some less than pleasant dealings with the British that I won't get into here.  Does that help to shape my opinion?  Sure.  But other things do as well.

I am a student of history.  And along with Wags, I have always been fascinated with English history.  It probably started when I was a kid and loved knights and pirates.  Henry II (and his legacy) is one on the historical figures I find most fascinating. Another is Churchill.  Both men heros and villains in the same body.  Both accomplished great things, and terrible things.  Both analogs for the English.  They have done wonderful things, I mean, I love Dickens and Led Zeppelin.  But they have had painted the world with blood of the oppressed.  For hundreds and hundreds of years.  A record that few other tyrannical regimes can match.  They weren't the Nazis, but the Nazis were in power for 20 years, not 1000.  If you were to look at the British time in India, it would match just about any other level of atrocities in history.

Oh, and let me guess, you have the Union Jack flying outside your house and a picture of Queen Elizabeth on your mantle?  Hmmm, maybe not, but proud descendant of England?

100% of my DNA is Northern European.  I do not fly the Union Jack.  In fact, parts of my family got the hell out of England in the 17th Century.... Other parts left Germany, Ireland, Sweden, Norway... As far as I can trace it back.

I didn't imply you said anything... you said I have a bias, the implication was that I can't possibly be correct that England doesn't deserve such praise from Chico's so I asked you to be the judge of one event. I did not put words into your mouth or anything of the sort.

It's very relevant metric if someone is creating a false equivalency between a fallen empire like Mongolia from thousands of years ago that happens to share the same name with a new country in the region vs a current "kingdom" that has doubled down on defending their atrocities as recently as this past year, which still has many of the same political parties and individuals who helped those atrocities to happen. I'm not sitting here arguing about Oliver Cromwell I'm talking recent things.

Its only a false equivalency because it isn't convenient to you.  Got it.  And stop being so outraged about 26 people when the government you call HOME drops bombs and hurls missiles from unmanned drones daily.  Where is the outrage for that?  What a crock.  You're not booing every time the National Anthem is being played, so maybe drop the Irish pride routine... because it really seems disingenuous.

Every country has bad history, and a lot of them won't and don't apologize for their past transgressions... sooooooooo get over it.

 

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