One of the weirdest stories out there

[Pakuni]

Ahhh.... you agree that some people choose to be gay... but you'd say they are just 'fakers' even if they make a life of it... and thus, they're not "real gays"??

No, that's not remotely close to what I'm saying.

[keefe]

Well, if she has physically altered herself, I am not sure how that meets the biological definition. 

It doesn't. Jenner is still a biological man. Surgical alteration does not change one's gender. Anymore than a nose job does. They are both cosmetic procedures.

[Tugg Speedman]

@GSElevator 3h3 hours ago
Bruce Jenner got $25k for speaking engagements. Caitlyn gets $100k. What wage gap?

[Benny B]

@GSElevator 3h3 hours ago
Bruce Jenner got $25k for speaking engagements. Caitlyn gets $100k. What wage gap?

Weird Al tickets at the BMOHP going for over a hundred dollars. Barenaked Ladies around $50. Never underestimate the drawing power of weird.

[naginiF]

No, that's not remotely close to what I'm saying.

Can you choose to participate in homosexual activities and lifestyle?  Yes.  But that doesn't make you gay.

- Growing up in a Catholic family i followed all of the appropriate doctrines and rituals because that is what was demanded of me.  Does that make me a Christian?
- My father was forced to write with his right hand growing up (ruler across the knuckles yo).  Does that mean he wasn't left handed?
- I have a colleague that goes to various ComicCons (sp?) dressed as SpiderMan. Does it make him a super hero?
- Axel Rose continues to tour with a band called Guns and Roses.  Does that mean that G&R still exists?

Point is we can all play a role but there is a difference between playing that role for either our psychological needs, or what society demands of us, and what we really are as people.  

I'm atheist even though I went to mass most Sunday's at Marquette.  My Dad was left handed even though he could write with his right hand.  My colleague is pretty great but not a super hero.  And there is no G&R without Slash (I was going to use "there is no VanHalen without Diamond Dave" but I thought that would be too controversial)

[Jay Bee]

No, that's not remotely close to what I'm saying.

Then what are you saying?

Do you agree that some people choose to be gay?
If yes, do you believe they are just 'fakers' even if they make a life of it? In other words, not "real gays"??

It doesn't. Jenner is still a biological man. Surgical alteration does not change one's gender. Anymore than a nose job does. They are both cosmetic procedures.

I heard Jenner didn't have surgery to take off his dils. (Not allowed to ask if true per warriorchick).

Which again is strange... you're a dude, then come out and want the general public to recognize you and call you a girl's name.... and talk about some of your transformational surgeries.. but others are banned from me being inquisitive of? 

I think a lot of folks write the rules for what's OK and what's not with this stuff.

I don't care much what people do - but some gays do simply choose to be gay and Jenner is a flipping weirdo.

[4everwarriors]

Not bein' allowed to ax is weird, ai na? Let freedom ring, hey?

[Pakuni]

Then what are you saying?

Do you agree that some people choose to be gay?
If yes, do you believe they are just 'fakers' even if they make a life of it? In other words, not "real gays"??

No. I, like the large majority of the scientific community, do not believe people choose to be gay.

[JWags85]

No. I, like the large majority of the scientific community, do not believe people choose to be gay.

I'm in agreement with you, and part of the reason that I bristle, even if an odd example or two is brought up like Jay Bee keeps hammering on, is that it just gives fuel to the ignorant and intolerant who say things like homosexuality is a product of a weak mind, or can be prayed away, or is simply a decision people make for vanity and social cred.

[rocket surgeon]

It doesn't. Jenner is still a biological man. Surgical alteration does not change one's gender. Anymore than a nose job does. They are both cosmetic procedures.

if he still has an X and a Y chromosome, sorry, he's still a dude.  i don't think they have mastered taking away the Y and giving them another X.  as long as he has an XY, he can wear all the dresses, brassieres, g-strings, use "different" toys, sit n pee, use a curling iron..still a muchacho, a little rough around the edges, but still a dudeguy-comprende?

[buckchuckler]

Can you choose to participate in homosexual activities and lifestyle?  Yes.  But that doesn't make you gay.

- Growing up in a Catholic family i followed all of the appropriate doctrines and rituals because that is what was demanded of me.  Does that make me a Christian?
- My father was forced to write with his right hand growing up (ruler across the knuckles yo).  Does that mean he wasn't left handed?
- I have a colleague that goes to various ComicCons (sp?) dressed as SpiderMan. Does it make him a super hero?
- Axel Rose continues to tour with a band called Guns and Roses.  Does that mean that G&R still exists?

Point is we can all play a role but there is a difference between playing that role for either our psychological needs, or what society demands of us, and what we really are as people.  

I'm atheist even though I went to mass most Sunday's at Marquette.  My Dad was left handed even though he could write with his right hand.  My colleague is pretty great but not a super hero.  And there is no G&R without Slash (I was going to use "there is no VanHalen without Diamond Dave" but I thought that would be too controversial)

'
How can you even say that??????  Despite a being a punchline in the movie Airheads, Van Halen did some great work with Sammy. 

[Benny B]

I'm in agreement with you, and part of the reason that I bristle, even if an odd example or two is brought up like Jay Bee keeps hammering on, is that it just gives fuel to the ignorant and intolerant who say things like homosexuality is a product of a weak mind, or can be prayed away, or is simply a decision people make for vanity and social cred.

So if I have this straight (no pun intended), ideology should trump logic?

If you want to take the position that there are not even a handful of people in the ENTIRE WORLD who have chosen to be gay simply because you don't like the potential consequence of what that means, then how is that any less illogical than someone who claims the "gay can be prayed away?"

I find it quite interesting that there is more conjecture about whether or not some people choose to be gay than there is about the second half of JayBee's statement: that Jenner is a weirdo.  After all, the latter seems much more subjective (I think Jenner's a weirdo, but have thought that for many years)... yet there's more "fuel for intolerance" to be found in the more objective of the two statements?  Instead of dealing with the reality that some people have chosen to be gay, and saying "sure, so what, most don't" the anti-homophobe movement simply defies logic because hammering on an agenda means that there's never any exception to the rule.  How is that not as dumb as a radical conservative who says that no one - without exception - could ever be born gay?

So yes... ideology > logic.  I don't agree with it and refuse to ever accept it personally, but that's the unfortunate reality for many people apparently.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

@GSElevator 3h3 hours ago
Bruce Jenner got $25k for speaking engagements. Caitlyn gets $100k. What wage gap?

This has to be wrong. Somebody was paying Bruce Jenner to speak? I believe that was his asking price, but who would have asked this guy to speak? He was unrecognizable even before this situation. I could see Eruzione getting money for a speech or a golf outing, but Bruce Jenner?

[warriorchick]

@GSElevator 3h3 hours ago
Bruce Jenner got $25k for speaking engagements. Caitlyn gets $100k. What wage gap?

But on the downside, she is no longer has the ability to parallel park.

[Benny B]

But on the downside, she is no longer has the ability to parallel park.

[buckchuckler]

But on the downside, she is no longer has the ability to parallel park.

Yeah, driving was never a strength apparently. 

[keefe]

When is the last time you heard Rosie O'Donnell gush over our military?

This pic of Rosie was popular in Iraq back in the day