Bucks to unveil $500 million stadium plan just north of BC

[mu03eng]

No.

"Just think of the (tax) money you'll lose" is the rallying cry for every business who wants a hand-out and threaten to leave. 

Milwaukee will get over the Bucks in the blink of an eye, compared to how it'll get over losing Assurant and their -1200 jobs. 

That's comparing apples to giant purple alien elephants.  I get you hate the arena thing so there is no argument to be made that will win you over.  I'll move along now.

[mu_hilltopper]

That's comparing apples to giant purple alien elephants.  I get you hate the arena thing so there is no argument to be made that will win you over.  I'll move along now.

Too bad for you, it's really not.    They are both Milwaukee businesses that are failing to make the revenue they need to be competitive, but indeed are in different industries, and have different levels of social pride.  Fuji apples to Gala apples.  Naturally, those on the "other side" of this argument desperately want that comparison to not be apt because it undercuts the big argument that spending public dollars on this is an economic priority that adds up.

I do not hate the idea of a new arena.   I could even spend public funds on it, right after we fix about 200 other bigger, yet non-sexy problems in Milwaukee that need public funding.  Unfortunately, those get zero debate while pols run around with their hair on fire because we want to keep a relatively small business afloat.

Pass a 1% sales tax hike with half the funds going to arts, parks, museums and schools.   I'll get on board.   Oh, but we can't do that.

[MUfan12]

Pass a 1% sales tax hike with half the funds going to arts, parks, museums and schools.   I'll get on board.   Oh, but we can't do that.

I don't understand the vehement opposition to any sales tax increase. When you look at major metro areas, Milwaukee's 5.6% is in the bottom third. Even raising it to 6.6% would keep it lower than most comparable cities.

I live in the city and have zero problem with it. Especially if it can ease some of the property tax burden.

[GGGG]

I don't understand the vehement opposition to any sales tax increase.

It's Milwaukee.  People still bitch and moan about the Miller Park sales tax, and most of them probably go to the games anyway.

[mu03eng]

I don't understand the vehement opposition to any sales tax increase. When you look at major metro areas, Milwaukee's 5.6% is in the bottom third. Even raising it to 6.6% would keep it lower than most comparable cities.

I live in the city and have zero problem with it. Especially if it can ease some of the property tax burden.

Can't look at it in a vacuum, question is what is the total tax burden, not just sales tax.  Sales tax is low because other things like property taxes are relatively high.

[mu03eng]

Too bad for you, it's really not.    They are both Milwaukee businesses that are failing to make the revenue they need to be competitive, but indeed are in different industries, and have different levels of social pride.  Fuji apples to Gala apples.  Naturally, those on the "other side" of this argument desperately want that comparison to not be apt because it undercuts the big argument that spending public dollars on this is an economic priority that adds up.

I do not hate the idea of a new arena.   I could even spend public funds on it, right after we fix about 200 other bigger, yet non-sexy problems in Milwaukee that need public funding.  Unfortunately, those get zero debate while pols run around with their hair on fire because we want to keep a relatively small business afloat.

Pass a 1% sales tax hike with half the funds going to arts, parks, museums and schools.   I'll get on board.   Oh, but we can't do that.

Assurant is going out of business because congress passed a law (ACA) that fundamentally changed the market place making their business model unsustainable.  I am unaware of any changes at the federal level that have impacted the ability of the Bucks to compete in the market place.  Apples to alien elephants.  Also, if there was a mechanism that the local government could use that, at worst, would be revenue neutral to retain Assurant I would definitely talk about it.....is there such a mechanism?

Lastly, what arts and museums are unfunded and/or need to be built that aren't?  Is money really the problem with schools and parks?  I'm with you that some of these things are broken, but they've been broken for at least 10 years.....should we break something else(Bucks) because we can't get our feces co-located on these admittedly larger and more consequential topics?  This isn't a do the Bucks and do nothing else strategy....its get the Bucks right and create no more holes I have to fill while working on the couple of giant trenches over here.

[MUfan12]

Can't look at it in a vacuum, question is what is the total tax burden, not just sales tax.  Sales tax is low because other things like property taxes are relatively high.

I get that, which is why I mentioned it possibly easing the property tax burden if those areas are taken off the property tax levy.

The arena, arts, parks, museums and schools all contribute to the quality of life in the area. I still think a one percent increase is more than reasonable to preserve and improve them.

[mu03eng]

I get that, which is why I mentioned it possibly easing the property tax burden if those areas are taken off the property tax levy.

The arena, arts, parks, museums and schools all contribute to the quality of life in the area. I still think a one percent increase is more than reasonable to preserve and improve them.

I'd love to see the trade off, but don't believe it would actually happen.  And again, other than parks, what improves with more money?  Is the amount of money we are giving to MPS right now the issue?  I don't think it's a money thing, I think its what they do with it....and I don't know that anyone can fix it until something else changes.  So why throw good money after bad AND lose good money because the Bucks leave town?

[warriorchick]

It's Milwaukee.  People still bitch and moan about the Miller Park sales tax, and most of them probably go to the games anyway.

One of my favorite quotes:

"There are only two types of people who don't like Milwaukee: those who have never been there, and those who have never been anywhere else."

[Groin_pull]

One of my favorite quotes:

"There are only two types of people who don't like Milwaukee: those who have never been there, and those who have never been anywhere else."

I would expand that quote to include the entire state of Wisconsin.

[brewcity77]

One of my favorite quotes:

"There are only two types of people who don't like Milwaukee: those who have never been there, and those who have never been anywhere else."

I love that. And so true.

[mu_hilltopper]

Just an added update .. Tim Sheehy wrote a breakdown of the $100m figure - over the next 10 years (although this adds to $120m.)

$25M in ongoing capital expenses and major maintenance
$30M in deferred major capital repairs and maintenance
$20M debt service
$25M in lost sponsorship revenue
$10M in net loss revenue associated with Bucks
$10M in lost revenue without substantial renovation

[MerrittsMustache]

It's Milwaukee.  People still bitch and moan about the Miller Park sales tax, and most of them probably go to the games anyway.

Unlike the Brewers, at least the Bucks are doing the logical thing and building downtown.

[Groin_pull]

Unlike the Brewers, at least the Bucks are doing the logical thing and building downtown.

I'm all for building up downtown, but in the case of Miller Park, it's probably in the best spot. I (and countless others) could never imagine a Brewers game without tailgating...and where downtown would there have been enough surface parking? 

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm all for building up downtown, but in the case of Miller Park, it's probably in the best spot. I (and countless others) could never imagine a Brewers game without tailgating...and where downtown would there have been enough surface parking? 

If you truly are for building up downtown then you (and countless others) would have to get used to not tailgating and spending your money at downtown establishments near the stadium.

[GOO]

If you truly are for building up downtown then you (and countless others) would have to get used to not tailgating and spending your money at downtown establishments near the stadium.

Miller Park downtown would have been great.  The people who tailgate would be offset by the people who would attend because it was downtown with good drinking and restaurants.  Park the car and walk to an establishment before and after the game.  Make a night of it and get a hotel and park the car and no driving. 

I think the real concern for Selig was easy access for the Waukesha/Oconomowoc/Brookfield people.  Too bad, as I think a downtown stadium would draw more people for the overall experience, especially on weekends.  On weeknights, I can see where the current location does better with people coming from the Waukesha area. 

[Groin_pull]

If you truly are for building up downtown then you (and countless others) would have to get used to not tailgating and spending your money at downtown establishments near the stadium.

Personally, I don't care one way or the other. But tailgating is too ingrained in the Brewers game experience. Generally, baseball fans tend to be suburbanites...a group not likely to give up their grills or make the trek downtown.

[mu_hilltopper]

If you truly are for building up downtown then you (and countless others) would have to get used to not tailgating and spending your money at downtown establishments near the stadium.

This could have happened.  And downtown would have benefited.  Except .. attendance at Brewers games would be about a quarter less.

Milwaukee is a cheap town, and over the past couple decades, the Brewers were a sub-mediocre ball club.   I'm comfortable guessing that the majority of folks in the stands are not there to see the glory that is baseball .. which is why they have security people kicking people IN TO the stadium after the 3rd inning, as so many are quite content drinking their 50 cent beers instead of $8 ones, locked in to a seat watching some painful game.

[Groin_pull]

This could have happened.  And downtown would have benefited.  Except .. attendance at Brewers games would be about a quarter less.

Milwaukee is a cheap town, and over the past couple decades, the Brewers were a sub-mediocre ball club.   I'm comfortable guessing that the majority of folks in the stands are not there to see the glory that is baseball .. which is why they have security people kicking people IN TO the stadium after the 3rd inning, as so many are quite content drinking their 50 cent beers instead of $8 ones, locked in to a seat watching some painful game.

Not sure if this makes them cheap...or smart.

[warriorchick]

Miller Park downtown would have been great.  The people who tailgate would be offset by the people who would attend because it was downtown with good drinking and restaurants.  Park the car and walk to an establishment before and after the game.  Make a night of it and get a hotel and park the car and no driving. 

I think the real concern for Selig was easy access for the Waukesha/Oconomowoc/Brookfield people.  Too bad, as I think a downtown stadium would draw more people for the overall experience, especially on weekends.  On weeknights, I can see where the current location does better with people coming from the Waukesha area. 

Who decides to go to a sporting event depending on the availability of bars and restaurants? 

The number of decent places to eat and drink near the United Center approaches zero, yet I don't think the Bulls and the Blackhawks have much trouble selling tickets.

[Groin_pull]

Who decides to go to a sporting event depending on the availability of bars and restaurants? 

The number of decent places to eat and drink near the United Center approaches zero, yet I don't think the Bulls and the Blackhawks have much trouble selling tickets.

Have you seen the size of Wisconsinites? I doubt there's anything they do that isn't closely tied to food and booze.

[warriorchick]

Have you seen the size of Wisconsinites? I doubt there's anything they do that isn't closely tied to food and booze.

Hence the tailgating and the dozens of bar-sponsored shuttle buses.

[hairy worthen]

Have you seen the size of Wisconsinites? I doubt there's anything they do that isn't closely tied to food and booze.

We all know how you like cracking on Wisconsin and Wisconsinites, but Mens Health doesn't have Milwaukee in the top 15 fattest cities in fact Milwaukee is the 17th fittest city in America.  Just saying.

[Galway Eagle]

Anyone else wish MU just had their own stadium? Something like Villanova. Play the smaller games at the Pavilion and then the big media games at the 76ers stadium (bucks for us).


Having been to the games down the stretch, it was a struggle to fill the lower bowl

I don't like this idea. It makes sense for years like the past two, but any year prior as far as I can remember it was necessary to have a massive stadium to play at. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

Have you seen the size of Wisconsinites? I doubt there's anything they do that isn't closely tied to food and booze.

I'll be back to comment on this later but I'm off to Moe's for lunch right now