Friars thoughts

[eg021]

Wojo has Trophies for everybody !!!!   Taylor is not D1 talent so he is invited to move on. Worse than Juan. Cohen and Luke questionable. Hope we have better players to support the Ellensons. That's the facts. This team sucks ! Diener was my favorite player of all time. He must be embarrassed.

Taylor has been playing out of position at the 5 this year. He has shown to be a good offensive rebounder and I do think injuries have hurt his progression.

Sandy is a true freshman, I think he'll be a great 3 point shooter for us in the future.

Big guys like Luke typically take longer to develop than guards. He will get stronger and be more dominant in the future. Look how good he was against the bad teams in his first couple games. He will do that against better competition, its a part of growth. Look at a guy like Kaminsky as a sophomore. He was nothing and played behind berggeren. Now he's UWs top player as an upper classman.

We all expected a rough season, it has been frustrating. I for one think we have some quality pieces and can turn a corner next year.

[BCHoopster]

I think Cohen has a very bright future, JJJ not sure.

I do not see either of them with a bright future, maybe in another sport, but not basketball.  By your sophomore year, you either have it or not.  Vander was an exception not the rule.  JJJ is way to weak physically right now, horrible form on his shot and probably a basket case mentally reading his press clippings, there is a reason Memphis did not go after him hard.  Sandy needs
a red-shirt year, he is way to skinny, not physical at all, needs 2 years to mature physically.  Plus Sandy takes 10 minutes to get his shot off, nor quick enough to get to the hole.  I am really hoping there is another forward coming in, maybe the Ellenson boys will both start.  Wally is at least taking a year off to maybe improve his game, should be able to rebound as he has shown he has Olympic hops, hope that can translate to the basketball court as he did nothing in Minny the first two years.  Fisher, Duane Wilson, Henry are the only for sure starters next year with Cheatham an inside track, the other who knows.  The next 2 recruits for Wojo might come in and start.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Sorry, again I just cannot see how you are comparing the too.  It's wonderful to say those teams came from those conferences.  Northwestern was beyond bad.  Minnesota was terrible, finishing 10-18 and 9th place in the Big Ten that year but managed to beat us by 24 points that season.  Tennessee was marginal at best.  

Sportsreference rating system rated us 144th out of 290 that year.

This year's team, 77th out of 351.

There is just no comparison.

Maybe the better way to look at it instead of assigning what conference they played in which doesn't mean much.  How many teams in 1987-88 were NCAA tournament bound vs this year's opponents.  I realize there are 4 extra teams admitted today, but let's take a look

1987-88 NCAA tournament opponents for MU.  6 games against NCAA participants.  DePaul (2), Notre Dame (2), Loyola Marymount, Kansas State.  That's it

2014-15 NCAA tournament opponents for MU (likely).   13 games and I'm not including Xavier in there whom I think will make it.  If they do, that's 15 games.  Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Providence (2), Georgetown (2), Villanova (2), St. John's (2), Butler (2).  Most experts think we have 6 teams going....that would make 15 games.

I just don't see how you can compare the two....I really don't.

You missed Xavier making the NCAA's back then as well who MU beat...and GT a and UT are bad this year too like those majors you listed.

As for SOS, that gets us to a fairer comparison but you most also admit the metric is padded by playing those Big East teams twice, and with the larger conferences today competitively. But the main point is, MU isn't winning: longest total losing and home losing streaks in 51 years and counting. Second or third worst teams in MU's history no matter how you slice it. Who cares about SOS to discern who is worst?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Except Miami, FL, who was an independent in basketball then or high mids, all those majors were majors back then. That team had Tito Horford and was coached by Bill Foster. The exception is the new Big East, but DePaul and Xavier made NCAA runs then. CU was mid-major then, so I will give you that one.

Where do you see this year's SOS is 12 this year?  I see it is at 39-42 depending on the service.

We didn't play Xavier in 1987-88 season.
SOS is 14th this year using apples to apples comparison on sports reference   http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/marquette/2015.html   Again, in 1987-88 it was 98th with fewer total teams, meaning the placement in which decile we were located is even worse compared to today's schedule and 351 teams.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You missed Xavier making the NCAA's back then as well who MU beat...and GT a and UT are bad this year too like those majors you listed.

As for SOS, that gets us to a fairer comparison but you most also admit the metric is padded by playing those Big East teams twice, and with the larger conferences today competitively. But the main point is, MU isn't winning: longest total losing and home losing streaks in 51 years and counting. Second or third worst teams in MU's history no matter how you slice it. Who cares about SOS to discern who is worst?

Correct, I missed Xavier.  So that's 7 NCAA teams in '87-'88   vs 13 to 15 this year.

Yes, we get the benefit of playing those teams in conference twice this year, but that also proves the point.  That '87-88 team playing this year's schedule would win 5 to 6 games total.   This year's team playing that schedule of the '87-88 team wins 16 to 18 games.   The competition level totally different.

[Dr. Blackheart]

We didn't play Xavier in 1987-88 season.
SOS is 14th this year using apples to apples comparison on sports reference   http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/marquette/2015.html   Again, in 1987-88 it was 98th with fewer total teams, meaning the placement in which decile we were located is even worse compared to today's schedule and 351 teams.

Played Xavier on 12/5/87.  http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/1987

Your buddy Jerry Palm says MU's SOS is 39. So, I doubt those calculations are apples to apples. I trust Jerry.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/sos

[wadesworld]

Some people here are whiny little babies.

We suck. Anybody with a clue knew we were going to suck. It sucks to suck.

We are in good hands. Players improve. It can only get better. And it will get better.

[Jay Bee]

SOS conversation - all depends how you define.

If you want to use RPI... we're sitting at #33 at the moment. Of course, "strength of schedule" per the RPI isn't a logical measurement of strength/difficulty/level of challenge. Some of the predictive models references earlier are generally better, though they have their flaws.

Anyway, this Providence game. It's another one where we out-shoot the opponent by a comfortable margin - usually that's good enough to win basketball games. Both Georgetown games we were the better shooting team by far, but lost... didn't win any of the other four factors in those games.

Today, got beat up on the boards in an extreme way and sent them to the line far often then we got to the stripe.

Some of our issues will be lessened over the next 8-9 months... but by how much is the question.

[Lennys Tap]

Sportsreference rating system rated us 144th out of 290 that year.

This year's team, 77th out of 351.

There is just no comparison.

Any rating system that claims we're the 77th best of 351 D1 teams this year is totally worthless. In November and December, maybe. Right now we're not in the top 150.

[Jay Bee]

sports-reference NCAA basketball metrics are absolute trash. Just awful.

[79Warrior]

Wojo needs to hear the extreme dissatisfaction from the alumni...not the excuses for poor performance. Need to keep him on his toes since he's in a program that spends Top 10 $$$$ on its program. Watching this years team with turnovers, poor ball handling and poor game closing, I'm not sure he can earn his high salary.

Ners found another link

[mug644]

Wojo needs to hear the extreme dissatisfaction from the alumni...not the excuses for poor performance. Need to keep him on his toes since he's in a program that spends Top 10 $$$$ on its program. Watching this years team with turnovers, poor ball handling and poor game closing, I'm not sure he can earn his high salary.

Another good way to get back at the administration is for you to stop posting. That'll teach 'em!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Our roster was better in 1987, but the team was a much bigger disaster back then. This years team is VERY thin on talent, but they're competing for the most part.

Do people really think Wojo doesn't know what he's doing? He's been working under Coach K for 15 years! Buzz learned at the knee of Billy Gillespie!

This season has been a disappointment, but I am 100 percent confident we are on the right track.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Played Xavier on 12/5/87.  http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/1987

Your buddy Jerry Palm says MU's SOS is 39. So, I doubt those calculations are apples to apples. I trust Jerry.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/sos

They are apples to apples.   I'm using the same rating source for both.

Sports reference in 1987-88 using the same formula rated MU's schedule 98th out of 290.   For this year's team, same source, it is rated 12th.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/marquette/1988.html     98th SOS

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/marquette/2015.html     12th SOS


If we had Jerry's 1987-88 SOS to compare to this year's (where he has us 39), then that would be great...but we don't.   Though having said that, I'll send Jerry a note today to see if he has that information from way back in the day.

[ChicosBailBonds]

sports-reference NCAA basketball metrics are absolute trash. Just awful.

They may be, but we don't have any other barometer and it's still an apples to apples comparison.  Same formula today vs 20+ years ago.


Point is, the schedule we played in 1987-88 compared to the schedule we played this year is not even close, yet the records are nearly identical.  I just don't see how with any common sense some think that 1987-88 team is somehow better than this one.  IMO.  

[MU82]

They may be, but we don't have any other barometer and it's still an apples to apples comparison.  Same formula today vs 20+ years ago.


Point is, the schedule we played in 1987-88 compared to the schedule we played this year is not even close, yet the records are nearly identical.  I just don't see how with any common sense some thinks that 1987-88 team is somehow better than this one.  IMO. 

You are 100% right, Chicos.

There is promise now. There was nothing then.

[ChicosBailBonds]

More apples to apples.  People may not like the RPI, but its comparing apples to apples


1987-88 team RPI was 204 out of 290     30th percentile  (better than 30% of NCAA teams)

2014-15 team RPI to date is 140 out of 351   61st percentile (better than 61% of NCAA teams)

http://www.bbstate.com/teams/MARQ/schedule/88

http://www.bbstate.com/teams/MARQ/schedule/15

[connie]

Bad basketball is bad basketball.  We have been a bit spoiled, and I certainly understand the frustration.  If things are this bad in two years I will be leading the charge for change, until then I won't be drawn into a "which sad team was worse" debate.

[Jay Bee]

More apples to apples.  People may not like the RPI, but its comparing apples to apples


1987-88 team RPI was 204 out of 290     30th percentile  (better than 30% of NCAA teams)

2014-15 team RPI to date is 140 out of 351   61st percentile (better than 61% of NCAA teams)

http://www.bbstate.com/teams/MARQ/schedule/88

http://www.bbstate.com/teams/MARQ/schedule/15

Not apples to apples & bad data. Bbstate's RPI info is bar none THE WORST I've ever seen. Completely broken. Awful.

RPI has also changed over the years in bball

[CTWarrior]

This season has been a disappointment, but I am 100 percent confident we are on the right track.

Make that 95 percent confident and this is where I am. 

[willie warrior]

More apples to apples.  People may not like the RPI, but its comparing apples to apples


1987-88 team RPI was 204 out of 290     30th percentile  (better than 30% of NCAA teams)

2014-15 team RPI to date is 140 out of 351   61st percentile (better than 61% of NCAA teams)

http://www.bbstate.com/teams/MARQ/schedule/88

http://www.bbstate.com/teams/MARQ/schedule/15

Maybe we can all agree that 87-88 sucked, and this year is fast approaching it. We can change the chant to "We are mini Dukiet!"

[MuMark]

Sagarin now has our schedule as 8th toughest....http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sagarin/2015/team/

Pomeroy still has it at 12....http://kenpom.com

If you want to take the average of the computer rankings for MU this year it is 112....http://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

[ChicosBailBonds]

Maybe we can all agree that 87-88 sucked, and this year is fast approaching it. We can change the chant to "We are mini Dukiet!"

It has not been a good year, but it's also not the worst in 50 years either.  We were playing double A ball in the late 80's. 

[mileskishnish72]

Looking forward to next year and hoping that in out timeouts we will have more guys in shorts than in suits, which was decidedly not the case in Providence.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Jerry Palm only has data going back to the early 1990's, so that option is out. 

Sagarin doesn't have anything archived that far back.  NCAA doesn't either.   

Only two sources I can find are those that I posted.