Ners is right...

[NersEllenson]

Derrick doesn't play well enough to games to get the minutes he's getting.

But, can we all just admit that we are missing all of the other variables, so MAYBE, there is a reason for the current rotation?

We're not at practice. We don't see these kids. They spend HUNDREDS of hours per year practicing with the coaches. We see them for about 60 hours per year. We don't know what we don't know.

Wojo might be completely batcrap crazy and an awful coach. But, maybe, for now, let's just admit that we don't have all of the data to evaluate his rotations.

Sound fair?

First, I don't think Wojo is batcrap crazy or an awful coach - as I feel he has a pretty good handle on X's and O's.  I feel where he needs improvement is on the personnel management side of things/understanding the personal element of managing different personality types on a basketball team.

Of course none of us see practice so we don't have that data, so we can't use that to factor into how we evaluate his rotations - we base everything we see off of the games.

I mentioned it in a previous post - Wojo may very well simply just prefer to have Duane (and Matt) playing off the ball primarily, and to play one of them at PG limits that action somewhat.  And that's what explains his rotations.  My take is that though he may prefer Duane at the 2, and think he is better at the 2 - the deficit we have at the 1 is so great - that the team would overall be improved playing Duane slightly out of his best position.  Of course no way to ever know this, much like last year with Dawson, unless our coach actually tries it for a game or two.  

[Texas Western]

That would send a poor message to the new scooper who started the post 

Incidentally, all you long time posters have a real love/hate Ners thing - it's a bit creepy actually?  I also think he's just a tad bit obstinate but on DW (and more accurately Wojo's decision to keep play DW at high minutes all season long) he's right.  You can't play the counter-factual but a number of our close losses have come down to the fact that we haven't been able to put the ball in the hoop in the last 5 minutes (or OT).  Yes, I know Wojo has done some subbing O for D with DW in late game situations but 1) you shouldn't have to do that with a starting point guard (this isn't Ox and Otule) and 2) as any balla knows subbing off and on seriously messes with your game flow. 

This was a team that should have gone to the NIT.  A large part of the reason they aren't is that the best 5 players have not maximized their time on the court.  That's on Wojo.  I like Wojo, I think he could be exactly what the program needs after the great Tanned One and the Cowboy, but he's clearly making some rookie mistakes - one's that hopefully he'll overcome once he gets to put and entire team of "his guys" on the floor.  So I don't think MUBB is doomed forever and ever, but I do think Wojo under-performed with this year's team and that's a bit concerning.

Excellent post . I completely agree with your analysis.

[NersEllenson]

Agree for the most part, but this isn't the NBA where you have the best athletes that play the game.

Look at college basketball the same way you look at the philosophy of the 3-4 in the NFL.  It's easier to find capable linebackers than dominant defensive lineman.  Same thing applies in college basketball as it's easier to find capable guards/wings than it is to find big men.  Let's face it, finding abnormally tall college age males who are coordinated and athletic enough to play basketball is a tough challenge.  When you factor in that this very small selected group of bigs is being recruited more heavily and the vast majority will have their pick of blue bloods offering scholarships it's very difficult for most schools including Marquette to regularly get in the recruiting wars.

I think Marquette is in the position of having to have excellent guard play to consistenly be a tournament team that makes it out of the first weekend.  I don't think we have the clout to reload on top shelf big men who leave for the NBA after one or two seasons.

I'd also prefer more athletic bigs who maybe give up a bit of sheer measurable size like Ochefu and Obekpa as their ability to run the floor greater compliments a guard centric program than a pure post player like Stainbrook or Fischer.  UConn, Nova and Louisville are the blueprint of how to compete first in the Big East with it's physical play and second nationally.

We'll never be a Duke or Kansas when it comes to being able to role out 4 quality big men a season, but we've had success VERY recently with strong, physical guards and wings.

Agree with your entire post.

Ners-

In response to your comment about missing the NIT last season despite our front court, I'd argue that it had more to do with Jake Thomas than it did Derrick Wilson. Jake didn't use screens well at all, had zero ability to create a shot off the dribble, and was best suited for a role on a team where he could get 7-15 minutes a game as a sharp shooter in short spurts.

Had we had a Carlino instead of Thomas last year's team makes a pretty deep run IMO.  If we would've played Derrick and Mayo paired with our front court of Gardner, Jamil, Otule, Burton, Anderson we would have been a much better team as well IMO.

Derrick - Dawson
Mayo - Thomas/JJJ
Jamil - Burton
Anderson/Taylor
Gardner/Otule

Had that been Buzz's basic depth chart I think we would've been dancing.

Believe it or not, I could go along with the bolded - we likely could have made the NCAA in spite of Derrick, if Buzz maxed Mayo's minutes at the 2.

What is sad, is that the above lineup/depth chart you mention was available to Buzz, yet inexplicably he refused to help Jamil/Davante by playing Derrick with a much more talented 2 guard.  The combination of Derrick and Jake for max minutes was the FATAL mistake, and that did not have to occur.  

I actually would have liked to see what this lineup could have done:

Mayo
Jake
Burton
Jamil
Gardner

I know many don't feel Todd was capable of being a PG because he liked to shoot, and was a scorer, yet Todd had an acceptable Assist Rate.  You keep Jake on the floor as he was solid defensively, AND he was a good floor spacer to help create space for Davante - which would have created good looks for Davante and Jake.

Ahh...what could have been..

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

First, I don't think Wojo is batcrap crazy or an awful coach - as I feel he has a pretty good handle on X's and O's.  I feel where he needs improvement is on the personnel management side of things/understanding the personal element of managing different personality types on a basketball team.

Of course none of us see practice so we don't have that data, so we can't use that to factor into how we evaluate his rotations - we base everything we see off of the games.

I mentioned it in a previous post - Wojo may very well simply just prefer to have Duane (and Matt) playing off the ball primarily, and to play one of them at PG limits that action somewhat.  And that's what explains his rotations.  My take is that though he may prefer Duane at the 2, and think he is better at the 2 - the deficit we have at the 1 is so great - that the team would overall be improved playing Duane slightly out of his best position.  Of course no way to ever know this, much like last year with Dawson, unless our coach actually tries it for a game or two.  

If you want to critique Wojo's rotations, I think that's fair. Believe it or not, what you say here makes a lot of sense.

I just think we get a little whacky when we start talking about Wojo's personnel skills, and "mind games" and "thrown under the bus" etc. etc.

It's not needed. We don't need to twist ourselves into knots on these topics and then "LOL" at anybody who disagrees, or name call, or any of the other nonsense that occurs.

[jesmu84]

First, I don't think Wojo is batcrap crazy or an awful coach - as I feel he has a pretty good handle on X's and O's.  I feel where he needs improvement is on the personnel management side of things/understanding the personal element of managing different personality types on a basketball team.

Of course none of us see practice so we don't have that data, so we can't use that to factor into how we evaluate his rotations - we base everything we see off of the games.

I mentioned it in a previous post - Wojo may very well simply just prefer to have Duane (and Matt) playing off the ball primarily, and to play one of them at PG limits that action somewhat.  And that's what explains his rotations.  My take is that though he may prefer Duane at the 2, and think he is better at the 2 - the deficit we have at the 1 is so great - that the team would overall be improved playing Duane slightly out of his best position.  Of course no way to ever know this, much like last year with Dawson, unless our coach actually tries it for a game or two.  

So, if we work on the statements that Burton and Dawson left because they were upset about their playing time or role on the team this year... Why do you believe that Wojo has problems understanding the personal element of managing different personality types? What is the evidence for that? I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just don't think I've seen/heard anything that would point to that being a problem.

[NersEllenson]

So, if we work on the statements that Burton and Dawson left because they were upset about their playing time or role on the team this year... Why do you believe that Wojo has problems understanding the personal element of managing different personality types? What is the evidence for that? I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just don't think I've seen/heard anything that would point to that being a problem.

I also made the comment about personnel management - which speaks to allocation of available personnel/resources.  This is where I feel Wojo has a lot of room for improvement.  At the outset of the season he did have two more bodies - Burton and Dawson - and he lost their buy in/belief, based on how they were used or more accurately, not used.  Additionally, Wojo could have mixed and matched players differently this season - my opinion is that he didn't mix and match in a way that maximized our chance to win.  Again, that is just my opinion.  Wojo had his.  But, our record reflects that I'm by no means crazy or way off base in my opinion, given that this team did/does have a good deal of talent.

Wojo is a fire and brimstone guy, don't think anybody denies that.  Burton, Dawson and JJJ are all more laid back guys - and not of that fire and brimstone ilk.  Doesn't mean they don't care, doesn't mean they aren't playing/practicing hard - they just have a different external demeanor and persona.  Yet sometimes coaches of the fire and brimstone variety can get caught up in "passion" and subconsciously value that above even performance.

[GooooMarquette]

Ners-

In response to your comment about missing the NIT last season despite our front court, I'd argue that it had more to do with Jake Thomas than it did Derrick Wilson.  Jake didn't use screens well at all, had zero ability to create a shot off the dribble, and was best suited for a role on a team where he could get 7-15 minutes a game as a sharp shooter in short spurts.

Had we had a Carlino instead of Thomas last year's team makes a pretty deep run IMO.  If we would've played Derrick and Mayo paired with our front court of Gardner, Jamil, Otule, Burton, Anderson we would have been a much better team as well IMO.

Derrick - Dawson
Mayo - Thomas/JJJ
Jamil - Burton
Anderson/Taylor
Gardner/Otule

Had that been Buzz's basic depth chart I think we would've been dancing.

Agreed.  I tried to make the point about Jake being the real problem several times last year, but many posters were too busy running over Derrick to pay attention.

I also agree that Davante and Chris should have split time at the 5 - like they did the year we got to the Elite 8 - instead of acting as though Davante was a 4.

[GooooMarquette]

I have had plenty on this issue. Yours have been weak!

You've spent most of your time (as usual) just ripping others' posts.

Explain why you said the players are smart, but don't think they'd be smart enough to see right through it if Wojo gave up on the season, but then tried to tell them that he wasn't giving up on the season.  

The players are smart - which is exactly why he couldn't "explain away" throwing in the towel.

Give me some substance willie.

[willie warrior]

You've spent most of your time (as usual) just ripping others' posts.

Explain why you said the players are smart, but don't think they'd be smart enough to see right through it if Wojo gave up on the season, but then tried to tell them that he wasn't giving up on the season.  

The players are smart - which is exactly why he couldn't "explain away" throwing in the towel.

Give me some substance willie.

Why is  being honest and explaining to the players that things were being changed to see what somebody else performs at PG suddenly construed  by you as throwing in the towel? Sounds like you don't believe that the young men have enough sense to trust and see what is attempting to be done. Can't that be communicated by Wojo? Because you don't want that to happen? Your lame  insults are tiresome, I haven't spent "all my time" ripping others posts, as you seem to be doing. Please don't "police" my time while wasting your time doing the same thing you accuse me of. You sir, have a problem with trust with your innuendoes, and with trusting Wojo to communicate the intent.  There you have substance.

[jesmu84]

I also made the comment about personnel management - which speaks to allocation of available personnel/resources.  This is where I feel Wojo has a lot of room for improvement.  At the outset of the season he did have two more bodies - Burton and Dawson - and he lost their buy in/belief, based on how they were used or more accurately, not used.  Additionally, Wojo could have mixed and matched players differently this season - my opinion is that he didn't mix and match in a way that maximized our chance to win.  Again, that is just my opinion.  Wojo had his.  But, our record reflects that I'm by no means crazy or way off base in my opinion, given that this team did/does have a good deal of talent.

Wojo is a fire and brimstone guy, don't think anybody denies that.  Burton, Dawson and JJJ are all more laid back guys - and not of that fire and brimstone ilk.  Doesn't mean they don't care, doesn't mean they aren't playing/practicing hard - they just have a different external demeanor and persona.  Yet sometimes coaches of the fire and brimstone variety can get caught up in "passion" and subconsciously value that above even performance.

Those are 2 paragraphs that I can 100% buy.

I guess I can only hope that Wojo keeps as much of the current players on roster, regardless of personality differences, long enough to get players that work more with his personality. Assuming, of course, that there are personalities that he may not work well with.

[GooooMarquette]

Why is  being honest and explaining to the players that things were being changed to see what somebody else performs at PG suddenly construed  by you as throwing in the towel? Sounds like you don't believe that the young men have enough sense to trust and see what is attempting to be done. Can't that be communicated by Wojo? Because you don't want that to happen? Your lame  insults are tiresome, I haven't spent "all my time" ripping others posts, as you seem to be doing. Please don't "police" my time while wasting your time doing the same thing you accuse me of. You sir, have a problem with trust with your innuendoes, and with trusting Wojo to communicate the intent.  There you have substance.

We've already seen how others perform at PG - so trying it again after it hasn't worked before would be seen by all but about 10 people here as throwing in the towel.  So if he dramatically changed the PG minutes now while claiming that we're still trying to win, I think the players are smart enough to see through it.  For what it's worth, I  don't think Wojo is going to do that and then lie to the players in the first place.

Call it "ridiculous" or "lame" or whatever clever insult you come up with next. And then enjoy watching Derrick.

[Anti-Dentite]

You've spent most of your time (as usual) just ripping others' posts.

Explain why you said the players are smart, but don't think they'd be smart enough to see right through it if Wojo gave up on the season, but then tried to tell them that he wasn't giving up on the season.  

The players are smart - which is exactly why he couldn't "explain away" throwing in the towel.

Give me some substance willie.

How is it throwing in the towel if one attempts a change at something that clearly isn't working. A change may well not work but it is trying, staying status quo is giving up and getting this train wreck of a season over.

[GooooMarquette]

How is it throwing in the towel if one attempts a change at something that clearly isn't working. A change may well not work but it is trying, staying status quo is giving up and getting this train wreck of a season over.

Others have played PG when Derrick rests or gets in foul trouble.  It hasn't worked.

Enough of this thread....

[Anti-Dentite]

Others have played PG when Derrick rests or gets in foul trouble.  It hasn't worked.
t

In the 5-7 minutes a game he doesn't play?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Scintillating response.  Probably the best I've ever read from you.  Kudos!

[ATL MU Warrior]

I also made the comment about personnel management - which speaks to allocation of available personnel/resources.  This is where I feel Wojo has a lot of room for improvement.  At the outset of the season he did have two more bodies - Burton and Dawson - and he lost their buy in/belief, based on how they were used or more accurately, not used.  Additionally, Wojo could have mixed and matched players differently this season - my opinion is that he didn't mix and match in a way that maximized our chance to win.  Again, that is just my opinion.  Wojo had his.  But, our record reflects that I'm by no means crazy or way off base in my opinion, given that this team did/does have a good deal of talent.

Wojo is a fire and brimstone guy, don't think anybody denies that.  Burton, Dawson and JJJ are all more laid back guys - and not of that fire and brimstone ilk.  Doesn't mean they don't care, doesn't mean they aren't playing/practicing hard - they just have a different external demeanor and persona.  Yet sometimes coaches of the fire and brimstone variety can get caught up in "passion" and subconsciously value that above even performance.

If guys aren't playing, I can see them looking to leave to go somewhere where they can.  I don't think that's an indictment on how Wojo managed his personnel.  He's not just going to play them to prevent them from thinking about leaving...they have to "earn" it. 

Regarding the personality types...are Derrick, Juan, Duane and Luke "fire and brimstone" guys?  Don't appear to be so to me, yet they are playing a ton of minutes.  Is it because they have similar personality traits or because they do what the coaching staff wants them to do? 

[NersEllenson]

If guys aren't playing, I can see them looking to leave to go somewhere where they can.  I don't think that's an indictment on how Wojo managed his personnel.  He's not just going to play them to prevent them from thinking about leaving...they have to "earn" it. 

Regarding the personality types...are Derrick, Juan, Duane and Luke "fire and brimstone" guys?  Don't appear to be so to me, yet they are playing a ton of minutes.  Is it because they have similar personality traits or because they do what the coaching staff wants them to do? 

I agree that you don't just play a player to prevent them from thinking about leaving.  Yet, you also have to give a player, a talented player particularly, the benefit of the doubt and some legitimate playing time - particularly when the veteran(s) ahead of them are struggling.

As for personality types - perhaps fire and brimstone doesn't describe Derrick, Juan, Duane and Luke - I would say that Derrick, Juan, Duane,  are all very intense/serious personalities, as well as very business like. (Juan probably less than Derrick and Duane) Juan hustles his ASS off, perhaps more than any guy I can remember in recent MU basketball history.  He's an ideal role player/glue guy and through his play and production I feel does "earn" 20 minutes per game.  Derrick plays to the best of his ability and plays hard, yet his production is more commensurate with a 10 minute per game role player.  Luke?  Well, Luke is going to play this season regardless of personality type as he's the only big on the roster.  Deonte, JJJ, and Dawson are all more laid back types than the other guys, and they were directly competing with Derrick, Duane and Juan for minutes.  

It isn't crazy for a coach to give the benefit of the doubt to players who share more of their core personality type.  It's basic human nature.  Astute coaches are able to separate personal bias and discern those personality differences.  I simply feel Wojo could have and should have given more PT to all of Deonte, JJJ and Dawson - because in my opinion none of Derrick, Duane, Juan or even Steve in front of them were clearly* distinguishing themselves as being mission critical to having on the floor.  

[willie warrior]

Scintillating response.  Probably the best I've ever read from you.  Kudos!

Yes sir! That response was to let you know what I think of your scintillating information. Kudos back at you.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I agree that you don't just play a player to prevent them from thinking about leaving.  Yet, you also have to give a player, a talented player particularly, the benefit of the doubt and some legitimate playing time - particularly when the veteran(s) ahead of them are struggling.

As for personality types - perhaps fire and brimstone doesn't describe Derrick, Juan, Duane and Luke - I would say that Derrick, Juan, Duane,  are all very intense/serious personalities, as well as very business like. (Juan probably less than Derrick and Duane) Juan hustles his ASS off, perhaps more than any guy I can remember in recent MU basketball history.  He's an ideal role player/glue guy and through his play and production I feel does "earn" 20 minutes per game.  Derrick plays to the best of his ability and plays hard, yet his production is more commensurate with a 10 minute per game role player.  Luke?  Well, Luke is going to play this season regardless of personality type as he's the only big on the roster.  Deonte, JJJ, and Dawson are all more laid back types than the other guys, and they were directly competing with Derrick, Duane and Juan for minutes.  

It isn't crazy for a coach to give the benefit of the doubt to players who share more of their core personality type.  It's basic human nature.  Astute coaches are able to separate personal bias and discern those personality differences.  I simply feel Wojo could have and should have given more PT to all of Deonte, JJJ and Dawson - because in my opinion none of Derrick, Duane, Juan or even Steve in front of them were clearly* distinguishing themselves as being mission critical to having on the floor.  

WARNING: LONG POST:

Ners, I'm sorry, but I think you're getting a little off the rails with the speculation again. Do you know Juan Anderson personally? Have you spent hours with him in practice? How about off of the court? Do you know what kind of motivation he responds to? How about Dawson. Do you know him?

I don't mean to sound combative, because after all, most of what we talk about here is speculative... but I think you're getting a little far out there. Let's not build a entire narrative based entirely upon speculation.

Let's at least start with some facts, and then see where we end up.


Let's work off of what we know:

1. Wojo has an established track record of being hyper-competitive. We've all read the articles.

2. The teams mantra is "win everyday". It's easy to believe that Wojo really subscribes to that. I saw it at the Haunted Hoops scrimmage. Wojo wasn't really interested in "putting on a show". He was coaching the guys hard, and reportedly screamed at them afterwards for a lack of focus.

3. The team roster was small (both physical size, and depth) to start the season.

4. 2 players transferred, and 1 player was benched for poor practices.

Now, we don't know how Wojo treated the players who left. I know you THINK you do, but realistically, we just don't. I don't know if he was meeting with Deonte daily to help him, or if he turned a cold shoulder. It's perfectly okay to admit that we don't know. We weren't there, and 6th hand accounts on the internet are far from factual.

Now, that we've established what we know, we can speculate.

WARNING! SPECULATION! I'M NOT PRESENTING THIS AS FACT.

My simple guess is that Wojo is trying to establish a clear culture at MU. Every successful coach and manager does it, especially with younger players and employees. THIS IS HOW WE DO THINGS HERE. PERIOD.

If a player is unhappy with the culture, then ultimately, it might not be a good fit for the player.

In the short run, Wojo would have been wise to say whatever he needed to say to keep Deonte and Dawson. He should have done/said/did whatever it took. It would have helped this team this season.

In the short run, Wojo would have been better to NOT bench JJJ.

However, in the long run, my bet is that Wojo is not interested in adjusting his culture to fit players. He's going to be very clear about how he does business and the expectations. If a player doesn't meet expectations, there will be consequences. If a player ultimately grows unhappy, he will have to work with the coaches to adjust, or simply move on. That's the reality, and that's okay.

I'm disappointed to see Deonte go, he was my favorite player. BUT, I also know that not EVERY coach is a good fit for EVERY player.

If Wojo is good at his job, he'll find the guys that fit what he's trying to accomplish, and he'll get the results we're all hoping for. If he's bad at his job, the school will be a turnstyle with guys constantly coming and going, and Wojo will be out of here in 4 years.

[willie warrior]

WARNING: LONG POST:

Ners, I'm sorry, but I think you're getting a little off the rails with the speculation again. Do you know Juan Anderson personally? Have you spent hours with him in practice? How about off of the court? Do you know what kind of motivation he responds to? How about Dawson. Do you know him?

I don't mean to sound combative, because after all, most of what we talk about here is speculative... but I think you're getting a little far out there. Let's not build a entire narrative based entirely upon speculation.

Let's at least start with some facts, and then see where we end up.


Let's work off of what we know:

1. Wojo has an established track record of being hyper-competitive. We've all read the articles.

2. The teams mantra is "win everyday". It's easy to believe that Wojo really subscribes to that. I saw it at the Haunted Hoops scrimmage. Wojo wasn't really interested in "putting on a show". He was coaching the guys hard, and reportedly screamed at them afterwards for a lack of focus.

3. The team roster was small (both physical size, and depth) to start the season.

4. 2 players transferred, and 1 player was benched for poor practices.

Now, we don't know how Wojo treated the players who left. I know you THINK you do, but realistically, we just don't. I don't know if he was meeting with Deonte daily to help him, or if he turned a cold shoulder. It's perfectly okay to admit that we don't know. We weren't there, and 6th hand accounts on the internet are far from factual.

Now, that we've established what we know, we can speculate.

WARNING! SPECULATION! I'M NOT PRESENTING THIS AS FACT.

My simple guess is that Wojo is trying to establish a clear culture at MU. Every successful coach and manager does it, especially with younger players and employees. THIS IS HOW WE DO THINGS HERE. PERIOD.

If a player is unhappy with the culture, then ultimately, it might not be a good fit for the player.

In the short run, Wojo would have been wise to say whatever he needed to say to keep Deonte and Dawson. He should have done/said/did whatever it took. It would have helped this team this season.

In the short run, Wojo would have been better to NOT bench JJJ.

However, in the long run, my bet is that Wojo is not interested in adjusting his culture to fit players. He's going to be very clear about how he does business and the expectations. If a player doesn't meet expectations, there will be consequences. If a player ultimately grows unhappy, he will have to work with the coaches to adjust, or simply move on. That's the reality, and that's okay.

I'm disappointed to see Deonte go, he was my favorite player. BUT, I also know that not EVERY coach is a good fit for EVERY player.

If Wojo is good at his job, he'll find the guys that fit what he's trying to accomplish, and he'll get the results we're all hoping for. If he's bad at his job, the school will be a turnstyle with guys constantly coming and going, and Wojo will be out of here in 4 years.

Pretty good analysis, Ammo, and I agree with most of it. Only area I have some concern about is setting expectations, and if expectations are not met there will be consequences. If that is true, then Wojo's expectations for this year at PG are low. Because 35-38 minutes a game for Derrick is not a consequence for reasonable expectations IMO. Rather than get into a debate about that, I will accept that Wojo sees more than I do for that position, even though I disagree with that choice--especially at this point of the year, and given that Duane could be Wojo's only candidate for that position next year. Wojo is making the $2 million, I am not. Just think he should be giving more of a run to Duane at this time.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Pretty good analysis, Ammo, and I agree with most of it. Only area I have some concern about is setting expectations, and if expectations are not met there will be consequences. If that is true, then Wojo's expectations for this year at PG are low. Because 35-38 minutes a game for Derrick is not a consequence for reasonable expectations IMO. Rather than get into a debate about that, I will accept that Wojo sees more than I do for that position, even though I disagree with that choice--especially at this point of the year, and given that Duane could be Wojo's only candidate for that position next year. Wojo is making the $2 million, I am not. Just think he should be giving more of a run to Duane at this time.

That's fair.

When I say consequences, it's more often for overall approach/understand/focus/effort, not a specific performance.

Derrick is not a good free throw shooter, but if he's putting in the effort every single day, and working extra on it, I'm not sure Wojo is going to single him out and scream at him. There's no point. The kid is doing everything he can.

If a player loses focus in practice, or takes a bad shot early in the shot clock, or doesn't play to the scouting report, then he's going to hear about it from the coach. If the player continues to make the same mistake, then he'll see some consequences (benched, extra laps, etc.).

Again, this is high level stuff. I don't sit in practice. I don't know exactly how Wojo is approaching each situation. These are just the basic building blocks to building a culture.

[mattyv1908]

I'd just like to congratulate everyone involved in these last 2-3 pages of this topic for having some of the most rational, cordial, non hyperbolic discussion that has centered around several of the hot button issues this board talks about which usually devolve into namecalling and worse.

Regardless of the opinion or point of reference, I think those who contributed did so in a manner that promoted mutual understanding and respect and the results were actually pretty insightful.

Thanks, as this is what makes this place so worthwhile to talke MUBB.

[willie warrior]

I'd just like to congratulate everyone involved in these last 2-3 pages of this topic for having some of the most rational, cordial, non hyperbolic discussion that has centered around several of the hot button issues this board talks about which usually devolve into namecalling and worse.

Regardless of the opinion or point of reference, I think those who contributed did so in a manner that promoted mutual understanding and respect and the results were actually pretty insightful.

Thanks, as this is what makes this place so worthwhile to talke MUBB.

Serious? Or Teal?

[mattyv1908]

Seriously.

We actually discussed Derrick Wilson, importance of guard play, Wojo's rotations, transfers out of the program, etc. without it derailing into chaos.

[Texas Western]

I agree that you don't just play a player to prevent them from thinking about leaving.  Yet, you also have to give a player, a talented player particularly, the benefit of the doubt and some legitimate playing time - particularly when the veteran(s) ahead of them are struggling.

As for personality types - perhaps fire and brimstone doesn't describe Derrick, Juan, Duane and Luke - I would say that Derrick, Juan, Duane,  are all very intense/serious personalities, as well as very business like. (Juan probably less than Derrick and Duane) Juan hustles his ASS off, perhaps more than any guy I can remember in recent MU basketball history.  He's an ideal role player/glue guy and through his play and production I feel does "earn" 20 minutes per game.  Derrick plays to the best of his ability and plays hard, yet his production is more commensurate with a 10 minute per game role player.  Luke?  Well, Luke is going to play this season regardless of personality type as he's the only big on the roster.  Deonte, JJJ, and Dawson are all more laid back types than the other guys, and they were directly competing with Derrick, Duane and Juan for minutes.  

It isn't crazy for a coach to give the benefit of the doubt to players who share more of their core personality type.  It's basic human nature.  Astute coaches are able to separate personal bias and discern those personality differences.  I simply feel Wojo could have and should have given more PT to all of Deonte, JJJ and Dawson - because in my opinion none of Derrick, Duane, Juan or even Steve in front of them were clearly* distinguishing themselves as being mission critical to having on the floor.  

This is a very accurate assessment of the situation and players.