Ners is right...

[willie warrior]

That would send a poor message to the new scooper who started the post 

Incidentally, all you long time posters have a real love/hate Ners thing - it's a bit creepy actually?  I also think he's just a tad bit obstinate but on DW (and more accurately Wojo's decision to keep play DW at high minutes all season long) he's right.  You can't play the counter-factual but a number of our close losses have come down to the fact that we haven't been able to put the ball in the hoop in the last 5 minutes (or OT).  Yes, I know Wojo has done some subbing O for D with DW in late game situations but 1) you shouldn't have to do that with a starting point guard (this isn't Ox and Otule) and 2) as any balla knows subbing off and on seriously messes with your game flow. 

This was a team that should have gone to the NIT.  A large part of the reason they aren't is that the best 5 players have not maximized their time on the court.  That's on Wojo.  I like Wojo, I think he could be exactly what the program needs after the great Tanned One and the Cowboy, but he's clearly making some rookie mistakes - one's that hopefully he'll overcome once he gets to put and entire team of "his guys" on the floor.  So I don't think MUBB is doomed forever and ever, but I do think Wojo under-performed with this year's team and that's a bit concerning.

You better be careful--Blue Man Guy will tell you that you know nothing about BB with these ideas. And others will tell you that since you only have a couple posts you are a troller--or worse yet--you are Ners with a new post name. Now you need to subscribe to the dozen posters adamant philosophy that Derrick should be playing 35 minutes because (Multiple guess):
~~~He is the best option (not withstanding the performance)
~~~Carlino and Duane cannot play PG
~~~The staff is full of PG's and they know best
~~~Derrick is a leader
~~~We must not try anything else for fear of sending the message that we have given up, or some paranoid  other world fear that this will send some strange adverse message to potential recruits
~~~We might lose more games (as if we already have not lost enough)
~~~Derrick has significantly improved his 3point FG% to .235 this year
~~~He is one of our best players
~~~And an unstated one but cannot be ignored--we really don't need to find out if anybody else can run the point (because it may show something that doesn't fit my narrative)
Now go away, those dozen posters do not want to hear your silly ideas.

[willie warrior]

To be fair, it took you less than 100 posts to show you know nothing, either.   You've just been around longer.

Yes I have, and to be fair, your 8000 posts demonstrates the same.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Willie, WTF do you think goes on in practice?  Honest question.

Do you really think the coaching staff doesn't know who the best option for PG is by now and that they need to put Duane there in a game to see how he would do?

I think they already know how he would do, and that's why he doesn't play there, but that's just me.

What do you think?

[wadesworld]

Every thread is turned into a Derrick thread by one doofus.

At this point I honestly feel like it's a robot that has some sort of autopost to every single post in MUScoop.  "BUT DERRICK!  BUT POINTS!  BUT RECRUIT RANKING!  BUT STEALS!  BUT WOJO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE KIDS!"  It's the only possible explanation I can come up with for a reply to every possible post on here.

At any rate, glad Cheatham is coming and I think he could be a real gem.  Really excited to see what he does at MU.

Sorry to interrupt the Cheatam thread, please return to talking about how Derrick can't score, wasn't highly ranked, and takes minutes from our power forwards.

[MU82]

At this point I honestly feel like it's a robot that has some sort of autopost to every single post in MUScoop.  "BUT DERRICK!  BUT POINTS!  BUT RECRUIT RANKING!  BUT STEALS!  BUT WOJO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE KIDS!"  It's the only possible explanation I can come up with for a reply to every possible post on here.

At any rate, glad Cheatham is coming and I think he could be a real gem.  Really excited to see what he does at MU.

Sorry to interrupt the Cheatam thread, please return to talking about how Derrick can't score, wasn't highly ranked, and takes minutes from our power forwards.

Good stuff.

Now, about Derrick ...

[esotericmindguy]

Duane might not be a successful PG not because he looks to score too much, but because he's not a very good passer at all at this point.

Based on what? To say that is ridiculous. You want him to dribble in place and pass it to the wing like Derrick? Pretty sure he can do that. You think Wojo tells Duane to be a distributor? He's 1 of 2 players on the team that can score the ball from the perimeter. I've seen him drop some beautiful passes off the drive this year. However, Marquette won't have a 2G next year either, and Duane can play both.

[BM1090]

Based on what? To say that is ridiculous. You want him to dribble in place and pass it to the wing like Derrick? Pretty sure he can do that. You think Wojo tells Duane to be a distributor? He's 1 of 2 players on the team that can score the ball from the perimeter. I've seen him drop some beautiful passes off the drive this year. However, Marquette won't have a 2G next year either, and Duane can play both.

He also tries to force passes every game that end up in turnovers. I didn't say anything about Derrick, not sure why that's relevant.

I think Duane is going to end up being great here, and he's my favorite player on the team. But he's not a good passer right now. Could he develop into one? Absolutely. In fact, I would bet on it. But he's not there yet.

[Anti-Dentite]

I agree with 1SE, Ners and Willie.

[connie]

I don't like it, but we don't have any money for a new deck chair so leave it where it is. 

No. we have to move that one three inches to the left.

Really, won't that clash with the sofa?

But if we leave it there it won't go with the new table!

[NersEllenson]

Willie, WTF do you think goes on in practice?  Honest question.

Do you really think the coaching staff doesn't know who the best option for PG is by now and that they need to put Duane there in a game to see how he would do?

I think they already know how he would do, and that's why he doesn't play there, but that's just me.

What do you think?

I'm going to go out on a crazy limb and suggest Derrick and Duane have been playing TOGETHER in practice all year long.  Coaches rarely mix up combinations in practice as to not practice a starting five together primarily.  Now, as thin as we are, I'd be shocked if there has been much of any practice time where Duane and Derrick weren't playing together.  

Wojo came on board singing Derrick's praise.  According to the great John Dodds - Derrick is Wojo's favorite player (as if that needed to be said.)  So, I'm going to hypothesize that for the most part all season long, and especially since we've become 8-strong, Wojo hasn't spent much of practice time running Duane opposite Derrick, and playing Duane with the other starters and pairing Derrick with the 2 primary reserves.

What is probably a fair statement is that Wojo prefers Duane off the ball, and figures he's more of an asset/weapon in the 2 position.  He may be right about that thought, yet where I believe he is wrong is in not properly assessing how devastating it is to the teams chances at success having such a limited PG.   In my view, playing Duane out of position (perhaps) would still be a better allocation of resources, versus playing a severely overmatched player at the most important position (PG).

[Class71]

Obsessive compulsive disorder is a disease.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'm going to go out on a crazy limb and suggest Derrick and Duane have been playing TOGETHER in practice all year long.  Coaches rarely mix up combinations in practice as to not practice a starting five together primarily.  Now, as thin as we are, I'd be shocked if there has been much of any practice time where Duane and Derrick weren't playing together.  

Wojo came on board singing Derrick's praise.  According to the great John Dodds - Derrick is Wojo's favorite player (as if that needed to be said.)  So, I'm going to hypothesize that for the most part all season long, and especially since we've become 8-strong, Wojo hasn't spent much of practice time running Duane opposite Derrick, and playing Duane with the other starters and pairing Derrick with the 2 primary reserves.

What is probably a fair statement is that Wojo prefers Duane off the ball, and figures he's more of an asset/weapon in the 2 position.  He may be right about that thought, yet where I believe he is wrong is in not properly assessing how devastating it is to the teams chances at success having such a limited PG.   In my view, playing Duane out of position (perhaps) would still be a better allocation of resources, versus playing a severely overmatched player at the most important position (PG).

Thanks for the response Willie.

[connie]

He also tries to force passes every game that end up in turnovers. I didn't say anything about Derrick, not sure why that's relevant.

I think Duane is going to end up being great here, and he's my favorite player on the team. But he's not a good passer right now. Could he develop into one? Absolutely. In fact, I would bet on it. But he's not there yet.

Rather than worrying about his passing I would prefer Duane to work on finishing his layups.

[mattyv1908]

Is point guard really the most critical position Ners?

With the exception of UConn's two recent NCAA championships in which Walker, Napier and Boatwright dominated with their guard play (and even then they had quality bigs), most of the teams that end up having success from the Sweet 16 on are usually teams that have depth and size that end up being the difference.  When you can rotate 3-4 guys 6'9" or taller keeping them fresh that size usually ends up dominating the glass and paint.

I'm not saying guard play isn't important (it is), I'm just saying that ASSUMING a team has quality guards it's typically the height/length of the 3-5 positions that becomes the difference as teams progress in late March.

[Henry Sugar]

He also tries to force passes every game that end up in turnovers. I didn't say anything about Derrick, not sure why that's relevant.

I think Duane is going to end up being great here, and he's my favorite player on the team. But he's not a good passer right now. Could he develop into one? Absolutely. In fact, I would bet on it. But he's not there yet.

Duane's assist rate is 16.2%. Currently, Duane ranks as the 4th best assist person on the team, behind De. Wilson, Carlino, and JJJ. He has the 22nd highest assist rate in the BE, and third best for freshmen in the BE.

Duane's turnover rate is 15.9%. He has the second best turnover rate on the team, behind Steve Taylor. His turnover rate is #28 in the conference. It's the sixth best TO rate for freshmen.

Looking at those numbers, Duane is certainly not a bad passer, nor is he a great passer. But I think he's a good passer, especially for a frosh.

[GOO]

With Duane, we at least have hope for next year at the one.  I wouldn't want to bank on him, and hope we can land another point, but Duane can help out or play it if necessary. I bet he gets some time at the one next year. He needs a little strength and size, especially if he is going to try to bring the ball up against pressure. 

Cheatham also may need some size added, but I believe I heard Wojo say he can play the point.  So that maybe another option, maybe not the starter, but an option.

Land a good point, and these two can help to fill in and provide back up.  They may not be perfect, but we are far from perfect at one as it is now, of course.

[NersEllenson]

Is point guard really the most critical position Ners?

With the exception of UConn's two recent NCAA championships in which Walker, Napier and Boatwright dominated with their guard play (and even then they had quality bigs), most of the teams that end up having success from the Sweet 16 on are usually teams that have depth and size that end up being the difference.  When you can rotate 3-4 guys 6'9" or taller keeping them fresh that size usually ends up dominating the glass and paint.

I'm not saying guard play isn't important (it is), I'm just saying that ASSUMING a team has quality guards it's typically the height/length of the 3-5 positions that becomes the difference as teams progress in late March.

I certainly don't think you can be a team like even the Big Three + Lazar, and Dwight Burke and advance to a Final Four - so your point is a good one.

However, I will say that I think it is a huge anomaly for a team to have a poor/marginal PG and be a contender.  Virginia this year may be an example of that anomaly - yet I still doubt Virginia will make the Final Four.

Have to have a good crop of guards to be successful, you could have a marginal PG, with an elite caliber 2 guard - such as Miami Heat with Chalmers primarily running their point in the championship years.  Still believe most championship caliber teams have REALLY good PGs, and that generally there is a correlation between having a REALLY good PG and a winning record.

Look at what happened to us last year - we had Davante and a 6th year Otule - probably our best big man pairing in the last 30+ years - and we miss the NIT??

[mattyv1908]

I certainly don't think you can be a team like even the Big Three + Lazar, and Dwight Burke and advance to a Final Four - so your point is a good one.

However, I will say that I think it is a huge anomaly for a team to have a poor/marginal PG and be a contender.  Virginia this year may be an example of that anomaly - yet I still doubt Virginia will make the Final Four.

Have to have a good crop of guards to be successful, you could have a marginal PG, with an elite caliber 2 guard - such as Miami Heat with Chalmers primarily running their point in the championship years.  Still believe most championship caliber teams have REALLY good PGs, and that generally there is a correlation between having a REALLY good PG and a winning record.

Look at what happened to us last year - we had Davante and a 6th year Otule - probably our best big man pairing in the last 30+ years - and we miss the NIT??

Agree for the most part, but this isn't the NBA where you have the best athletes that play the game.

Look at college basketball the same way you look at the philosophy of the 3-4 in the NFL.  It's easier to find capable linebackers than dominant defensive lineman.  Same thing applies in college basketball as it's easier to find capable guards/wings than it is to find big men.  Let's face it, finding abnormally tall college age males who are coordinated and athletic enough to play basketball is a tough challenge.  When you factor in that this very small selected group of bigs is being recruited more heavily and the vast majority will have their pick of blue bloods offering scholarships it's very difficult for most schools including Marquette to regularly get in the recruiting wars.

I think Marquette is in the position of having to have excellent guard play to consistenly be a tournament team that makes it out of the first weekend.  I don't think we have the clout to reload on top shelf big men who leave for the NBA after one or two seasons.

I'd also prefer more athletic bigs who maybe give up a bit of sheer measurable size like Ochefu and Obekpa as their ability to run the floor greater compliments a guard centric program than a pure post player like Stainbrook or Fischer.  UConn, Nova and Louisville are the blueprint of how to compete first in the Big East with it's physical play and second nationally.

We'll never be a Duke or Kansas when it comes to being able to role out 4 quality big men a season, but we've had success VERY recently with strong, physical guards and wings.

[mattyv1908]

Ners-

In response to your comment about missing the NIT last season despite our front court, I'd argue that it had more to do with Jake Thomas than it did Derrick Wilson.  Jake didn't use screens well at all, had zero ability to create a shot off the dribble, and was best suited for a role on a team where he could get 7-15 minutes a game as a sharp shooter in short spurts.

Had we had a Carlino instead of Thomas last year's team makes a pretty deep run IMO.  If we would've played Derrick and Mayo paired with our front court of Gardner, Jamil, Otule, Burton, Anderson we would have been a much better team as well IMO.

Derrick - Dawson
Mayo - Thomas/JJJ
Jamil - Burton
Anderson/Taylor
Gardner/Otule

Had that been Buzz's basic depth chart I think we would've been dancing.

[willie warrior]

Willie - serious question - what percent of the blame for this season's performance do you put on Wojo vs. Buzz?

Hard to put a number on something like that, but say 75% Buzz and 25% Wojo. Wojo inherited most of this team, and cannot be blamed for that. He lost some people and incoming recruits, some of that might be attributed to Wojo. Most of the 25% I would put down to Wojo for late game coaching, not going to man D more often and rotation decisions.

[willie warrior]

Willie, WTF do you think goes on in practice?  Honest question.

Do you really think the coaching staff doesn't know who the best option for PG is by now and that they need to put Duane there in a game to see how he would do?

I think they already know how he would do, and that's why he doesn't play there, but that's just me.

What do you think?

[willie warrior]

So no answer - just calling everything you disagree with "lame" or "ridiculous"?  Guess that's the best you'll ever have on this issue.

I have had plenty on this issue. Yours have been weak!

[willie warrior]

I agree with 1SE, Ners and Willie.

Probably all the same person--including Chip Chipman. There goes the conspiracy theory.

[mu-rara]

8 consecutive messages ignored.  This is fun.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Sure - All we have is the game data to go off and draw our conclusions from - which has been my point all along:  The production of a couple of players in games absolutely and totally can be called into question, and is NOT indicative of earning minutes through their on court play.

Derrick doesn't play well enough to games to get the minutes he's getting.

But, can we all just admit that we are missing all of the other variables, so MAYBE, there is a reason for the current rotation?

We're not at practice. We don't see these kids. They spend HUNDREDS of hours per year practicing with the coaches. We see them for about 60 hours per year. We don't know what we don't know.

Wojo might be completely batshit crazy and an awful coach. But, maybe, for now, let's just admit that we don't have all of the data to evaluate his rotations.

Sound fair?