Ners is right...

[Lighthouse 84]

Am I the only one who cringes when I see the title of this thread?

Ok, I'll give you this.  Derrick should not play 35 minutes per game.

[willie warrior]

Where would he sit when he isn't playing?  "Benching" a guy doesn't have to mean 0 mpg.

But since you asked what I fear:  I fear Wojo sending the message that he has quit on the season, which sends the wrong message to players.  I get that the season is done, you get that the season is done - even Wojo gets that the season is done.  But the last thing he needs to do now is take an action that sends that message to current (and potential future) players.

Lame, lame. Grasping at straws for a weak excuse. He cannot explain it to the team? Are they not bright young people. And it can be explained that nobody has given up. Just lame.

[willie warrior]

The problem is your comprehension needs some work as you clearly didn't understand the point I was making.  But we can leave it at that and think each other are idiots instead of going back and forth. 

Sorry, I never called you an idiot. Maybe somebody that just does not have an open mind about changing things up might apply. Not sure.

[g0lden3agle]

Willie - serious question - what percent of the blame for this season's performance do you put on Wojo vs. Buzz?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Sorry, I never called you an idiot. Maybe somebody that just does not have an open mind about changing things up might apply. Not sure.

I have an open mind about changing things up and I have no problem if Wojo does.  All I was stating was reasons why it likely wouldn't happen, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't.  The problem is when someone complete dismisses valid reasons of why a change might not happen or might not be for the best. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Again, I'm pretty sure Wojo would gladly play Derrick Wilson ZERO minutes if he had Magic Johnson on this team.

Unfortunately, he doesn't.

If any of the bench players want more minutes, then be better at basketball... be better in practice, watch more film, shoot more, practice more, perform in games.

This is a culture Wojo is creating. He's not going to crash land it just so he can try something new. The guys who work hardest in practice, the guys who are prepared, the guys who do extra work, the guys who perform are going to get the minutes.

This really isn't that hard.

Wojo doesn't hand out PT. Guys EARN PT.

Scholarships aren't given, they are earned.

Don't want to work hard everyday in practice? You're going to sit on the bench.

[rocky_warrior]

Am I the only one who cringes when I see the title of this thread?

Ok, I'll give you this.  Derrick should not play 35 minutes per game.

No...I've been tempted to change the title many times, but I feel like it would be an abuse of my power.  (Though, I have frequently changed titles to make them more descriptive....I guess I could count it as that )

[NersEllenson]

Again, I'm pretty sure Wojo would gladly play Derrick Wilson ZERO minutes if he had Magic Johnson on this team.

Unfortunately, he doesn't.

If any of the bench players want more minutes, then be better at basketball... be better in practice, watch more film, shoot more, practice more, perform in games.

This is a culture Wojo is creating. He's not going to crash land it just so he can try something new. The guys who work hardest in practice, the guys who are prepared, the guys who do extra work, the guys who perform are going to get the minutes.

This really isn't that hard.

Wojo doesn't hand out PT. Guys EARN PT.

Scholarships aren't given, they are earned.

Don't want to work hard everyday in practice? You're going to sit on the bench.

It would be nice if all of this shooting and practicing hard actually translated to games.

And btw - Can you give us a break down of minutes of film study per player on the current roster as well as "extra work"?  Didn't know such stats were posted anywhere?

I know the whole narrative of players "earning time" needs to be perpetuated - but at what point does on court performance matter or trump all of these apparent behind the scenes intangibles?

If the culture Wojo is creating is that your on-court/game performance doesn't matter due to the fact you "practice hard, do extra work, watch more film, shoot more, etc" that is not a winning formula.

[JakeBarnes]

No...I've been tempted to change the title many times, but I feel like it would be an abuse of my power.  (Though, I have frequently changed titles to make them more descriptive....I guess I could count it as that )

can you just change it to "tin foil hat club?"

[NersEllenson]

can you just change it to "tin foil hat club?"

The only guys who were in the tin foil club were:

A) Those who didn't feel things were getting shaky when Larry Williams and Buzz were at odds.

B) Didn't sense that Buzz was a lost cause last year

C) Feel that MU has a history of basketball success and if Buzz bailed, we'd find a qualified and capable replacement and that the program is far bigger than the coach.

D) Now we have that new qualified and capable coach and he's shepherded us to last place in the Big East and our worst season since Bob Dukiet.  Meanwhile the program has 4 open scholarships and 4 and 5 star recruits aren't exactly abounding the recruiting landscape at this time of year.

E) - Hey, no worries - In Wojo I trust, and Wojo's Way baby.  #wineveryday.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It would be nice if all of this shooting and practicing hard actually translated to games.

And btw - Can you give us a break down of minutes of film study per player on the current roster as well as "extra work"?  Didn't know such stats were posted anywhere?

I know the whole narrative of players "earning time" needs to be perpetuated - but at what point does on court performance matter or trump all of these apparent behind the scenes intangibles?

If the culture Wojo is creating is that your on-court/game performance doesn't matter due to the fact you "practice hard, do extra work, watch more film, shoot more, etc" that is not a winning formula.

Totally fair.

Let's all agree that we have no idea what happens in practice, so we don't have enough data to determine who should or shouldn't be playing.

Good?

[Uncle Rico]

Totally fair.

Let's all agree that we have no idea what happens in practice, so we don't have enough data to determine who should or shouldn't be playing.

Good?

Show me a coach that ignores how a player practices and plays him anyway, I'll show you a coach who won't succeed in the long run. 

Bill Self has a consensus five * in Kelly Oubre who didn't practice well early in the season at Kansas.  Once he started to show the effort and desire, he started playing.

[NersEllenson]

Totally fair.

Let's all agree that we have no idea what happens in practice, so we don't have enough data to determine who should or shouldn't be playing.

Good?

Sure - All we have is the game data to go off and draw our conclusions from - which has been my point all along:  The production of a couple of players in games absolutely and totally can be called into question, and is NOT indicative of earning minutes through their on court play.

[NersEllenson]

Show me a coach that ignores how a player practices and plays him anyway, I'll show you a coach who won't succeed in the long run. 

Bill Self has a consensus five * in Kelly Oubre who didn't practice well early in the season at Kansas.  Once he started to show the effort and desire, he started playing.

Larry Brown?

[Uncle Rico]

Larry Brown?

Learned under Dean Smith and he was the one that called out Iverson for his practice habits that lead to the famous rant

[NersEllenson]

Russ Wood ‏@RussHoops  15h15 hours ago
2015 Pines Charter (FL) SG Haanif Cheatham (@H22_Cheatham) had 29 pts, 10 rebs, 4 asts & 3stls in a 6A Regional Semifinal win ovr South Fork

Nice find.  That's awesome.  A stat stuffer.  But looks like he is far too much of a scorer to be a candidate for PG position...as some would have us believe.

[NersEllenson]

Learned under Dean Smith and he was the one that called out Iverson for his practice habits that lead to the famous rant

Still played A.I. max minutes. 

[Shark]

Saying he can't play point because of these stats? Have you seen top tier guards play high school basketball? They are normally tasked with most of the teams scoring...if he isn't playing point there he could still play it in college. He is probably their best guy and they use him accordingly.

[NersEllenson]

Saying he can't play point because of these stats? Have you seen top tier guards play high school basketball? They are normally tasked with most of the teams scoring...if he isn't playing point there he could still play it in college. He is probably their best guy and they use him accordingly.

Shark - It was sarcasm - Figured it didn't need to go in teal, and that the rolling eye emoji would be enough to communicate as such.

I find it laughable when I read here that a guy like Duane couldn't be a PG because he's a scorer/looks to score too much...

[BM1090]

Shark - It was sarcasm - Figured it didn't need to go in teal, and that the rolling eye emoji would be enough to communicate as such.

I find it laughable when I read here that a guy like Duane couldn't be a PG because he's a scorer/looks to score too much...

Duane might not be a successful PG not because he looks to score too much, but because he's not a very good passer at all at this point.

As far as Cheatham, real excited to get him in next year. Should be a very good player here. Maybe not right off the bat, but definitely excited for his future.

[GooooMarquette]

Lame, lame. Grasping at straws for a weak excuse. He cannot explain it to the team? Are they not bright young people. And it can be explained that nobody has given up. Just lame.

So no answer - just calling everything you disagree with "lame" or "ridiculous"?  Guess that's the best you'll ever have on this issue.

[NersEllenson]

Duane might not be a successful PG not because he looks to score too much, but because he's not a very good passer at all at this point.

As far as Cheatham, real excited to get him in next year. Should be a very good player here. Maybe not right off the bat, but definitely excited for his future.

I've seen Duane drive and dish for nice looks many times.  Part of the challenge for Duane is that on some of his drives his kick out option is to Derrick.  We are better off with Duane shooting that shot.  It is challenging for Duane to get an assist while playing with Derrick as Derrick basically doesn't shoot perimeter shots. So, Duane is down to 3 players he can rack up an assist with while on the floor.  I suspect with better weapons around him, Duane would get more assists.

But, yes, I agree with you on Cheatham - appears to have a really well rounded game.  Biggest challenge will be adding strength.  He needs a lot of it, much like Sandy, and JJJ and Duane.  Problem is none of those guys have very good frames for being able to add much - all so lanky (other than Duane.)

[1SE]

No...I've been tempted to change the title many times, but I feel like it would be an abuse of my power.  (Though, I have frequently changed titles to make them more descriptive....I guess I could count it as that )

That would send a poor message to the new scooper who started the post 

Incidentally, all you long time posters have a real love/hate Ners thing - it's a bit creepy actually?  I also think he's just a tad bit obstinate but on DW (and more accurately Wojo's decision to keep play DW at high minutes all season long) he's right.  You can't play the counter-factual but a number of our close losses have come down to the fact that we haven't been able to put the ball in the hoop in the last 5 minutes (or OT).  Yes, I know Wojo has done some subbing O for D with DW in late game situations but 1) you shouldn't have to do that with a starting point guard (this isn't Ox and Otule) and 2) as any balla knows subbing off and on seriously messes with your game flow. 

This was a team that should have gone to the NIT.  A large part of the reason they aren't is that the best 5 players have not maximized their time on the court.  That's on Wojo.  I like Wojo, I think he could be exactly what the program needs after the great Tanned One and the Cowboy, but he's clearly making some rookie mistakes - one's that hopefully he'll overcome once he gets to put and entire team of "his guys" on the floor.  So I don't think MUBB is doomed forever and ever, but I do think Wojo under-performed with this year's team and that's a bit concerning.

[wadesworld]

Hey, we almost got 1 whole reply in before this thread went off topic!  Yippee!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Hey, we almost got 1 whole reply in before this thread went off topic!  Yippee!

Every thread is turned into a Derrick thread by one doofus.