Noskowiak released from NLI

[GGGG]

If he's not coming to Marquette, would love to see NN at UWGB. Wardle is building a nice mid-level program and they have a need at point guard with Kiefer Sykes being a senior.

He'll end up at a higher level program than that.  And the jury is still out on Wardle as a coach.

[Tugg Speedman]

I guess it depends on how much he knew about NN's issues at that time.  

Did anyone know about these issues at all? Not that I'm expecting a basketball board to have all knowledge, but I don't recall ever reading about NN's and depression/family/could miss school kind of issues. Or that he even had issues.

When Malek Harris committed (another "stabile" Buzz recruit) his issues were mentioned in every post.  NN, nothing, as I recall.

[GGGG]

Did anyone know about these issues at all? Not that I'm expecting a basketball board to have all knowledge, but I don't recall ever reading about NN's and issues. Or that he even had issues.

The Badger boards were supposedly floating a lot of stuff like "dumpster fire" even before Buzz left.  Of course they have done that before with the likes of Vander, so I don't know if they were right in this case, or simply the blind squirrel finally found the nut.

[Tugg Speedman]

The Badger boards were supposedly floating a lot of stuff like "dumpster fire" even before Buzz left.  Of course they have done that before with the likes of Vander, so I don't know if they were right in this case, or simply the blind squirrel finally found the nut.

The Badger boards think everyone not in Madison is a dumpster fire, doesn't really enlighten that much.

[willie warrior]

The Badger boards were supposedly floating a lot of stuff like "dumpster fire" even before Buzz left.  Of course they have done that before with the likes of Vander, so I don't know if they were right in this case, or simply the blind squirrel finally found the nut.

I don't read the Badger Board, but if they were posting stuff about NN before the phomy cowboy left, then that is just another example of Buzz boneheadely throwing a hand grenade at the program as the door hit him in the ass.

[Pakuni]

He'll end up at a higher level program than that.  And the jury is still out on Wardle as a coach.

FWIW, Jeff Goodman seems to disagree.

Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN  ·  Feb 13
Two Horizon league coaches should be a hot commodity: Bryce Drew and Green Bay's 35-year-old Brian Wardle -- who is 44-12 last two seasons.

[willie warrior]

He'll end up at a higher level program than that.  And the jury is still out on Wardle as a coach.

says the guy that thought Otule was our best Center, and thinks that Derrick is one of our best players.

[GGGG]

says the guy that thought Otule was our best Center, and thinks that Derrick is one of our best players.

At the time I said the former, I was correct.

I never said the latter.

[Black Swan]

FWIW, Jeff Goodman seems to disagree.

Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN  ·  Feb 13
Two Horizon league coaches should be a hot commodity: Bryce Drew and Green Bay's 35-year-old Brian Wardle -- who is 44-12 last two seasons.

Wardle wants out of GB in the worst way but has been unable to find anyone with interest in him after his "situation" of a couple years ago. If he fails again this year to get GB into the NCAA he will have a hard time moving forward as he will not have another Sykes, who has regressed this year.

[willie warrior]

At the time I said the former, I was correct.

I never said the latter.

No you were not correct, and you certainly think it about Derrick because you will not entertain trying anybody else at PG. But hey, it is the USA and we are all entitled to express our opinions. What a wonderful country.

[tower912]

Bama is the one who, through his value add ranking system, pegged Derrick as the second best player on the team.   A year ago, he had Derrick as a zero on his value add, this year, second best player on the team. 

[NersEllenson]

Bama is the one who, through his value add ranking system, pegged Derrick as the second best player on the team.   A year ago, he had Derrick as a zero on his value add, this year, second best player on the team. 

Pomeroy classifies him as a Limited Role Player who is used in the fewest percentage of possessions of any player on the team.  Furthermore Derrick shoots the ball at the lowest rate.  What does this mean?  Basically, he does nothing out there, yet plays the most minutes. 

And for the guys who want to get all bent out of shape on Assist to Turnover ratio - When you virtually NEVER shoot the basketball, never force action, and play 35 minutes per game - you are going to by default - play your way into a decent assist to turnover ratio.  If you almost never shoot - it means all you do is pass the ball.  Assists are the byproduct of passing.  If you are used in the fewest percentage of your teams possessions, and primarily dribble the ball 25 feet away from the basket at the top of the key - AND your defender sags off of you generally 3-5 feet - it's pretty damn hard to turn the ball over.

I'm sure an update of Bama's advanced stats will bring Derrick back in line with limited Value Add after the 5 clunkers he's played since the last round of Bama's analysis.

But hey, whatever Tower - go on believing Derrick Wilson is the 2nd best player on this team.  If you want a real order:  Carlino, Duane, Juan, Luke, JJJ - Cohen, Steve and Derrick are interchangeable as far as numbers 5-8 players on the team.

[MU82]

Pomeroy classifies him as a Limited Role Player who is used in the fewest percentage of possessions of any player on the team.  Furthermore Derrick shoots the ball at the lowest rate.  What does this mean?  Basically, he does nothing out there, yet plays the most minutes. 

And for the guys who want to get all bent out of shape on Assist to Turnover ratio - When you virtually NEVER shoot the basketball, never force action, and play 35 minutes per game - you are going to by default - play your way into a decent assist to turnover ratio.  If you almost never shoot - it means all you do is pass the ball.  Assists are the byproduct of passing.  If you are used in the fewest percentage of your teams possessions, and primarily dribble the ball 25 feet away from the basket at the top of the key - AND your defender sags off of you generally 3-5 feet - it's pretty damn hard to turn the ball over.

I'm sure an update of Bama's advanced stats will bring Derrick back in line with limited Value Add after the 5 clunkers he's played since the last round of Bama's analysis.

But hey, whatever Tower - go on believing Derrick Wilson is the 2nd best player on this team.  If you want a real order:  Carlino, Duane, Juan, Luke, JJJ - Cohen, Steve and Derrick are interchangeable as far as numbers 5-8 players on the team.

See, this is things get sticky with you, Ners.

You rip Value Add when it goes against one of your viewpoints, preferring the eye test instead. But if Value Add confirms your viewpoint, you like it and mock those who use the eye test.

I actually agree with you about Derrick. I don't care what some of these stats say because my years around basketball have taught me what a high-major PG is -- and Derrick isn't one.

But I applied the same experience/eye test last year to Dawson, and it was obvious he wasn't high-major material, either. That fact has now been confirmed by Buzz, Wojo and, mostly, Liberty! I have no idea what Value Add said about Dawson, and I don't care.

[NersEllenson]

See, this is things get sticky with you, Ners.

You rip Value Add when it goes against one of your viewpoints, preferring the eye test instead. But if Value Add confirms your viewpoint, you like it and mock those who use the eye test.

I actually agree with you about Derrick. I don't care what some of these stats say because my years around basketball have taught me what a high-major PG is -- and Derrick isn't one.

But I applied the same experience/eye test last year to Dawson, and it was obvious he wasn't high-major material, either. That fact has now been confirmed by Buzz, Wojo and, mostly, Liberty! I have no idea what Value Add said about Dawson, and I don't care.

The point is Advanced Stats can be in conflict with one another - just as Value Add and Pomeroy suggest.

As for Dawson - my eye test said he played about as you could expect for a 3-star freshman, getting spotty/choppy minutes in Big East play.  Cohen actually isn't playing a whole lot better than Dawson at this point of Big East play, and Sandy has gotten pretty consistent minutes to show his value.

As for Dawson going to Liberty - NOt sure that you can draw the conclusion that he isn't a high major player based on him landing at Liberty.  Not many schools have open scholarships mid-year, and there were Big 12 teams interested, but they didn't have scholarships open.  Hawaii - Brad Autry's team - was interested as well, but no open scholarships. 

Dawson really didn't have much of a resume he could offer teams, given his limited playing time last season, and then now this past season when Wojo nailed him to the bench for 8 games after a 4 minute stint in the opener - what are other schools going to think?

Hell Buzz played Dawson A LOT more than Wojo did right from the drop last season in non-conference, and then in Big East play.

I saw a kid who had a Big East ready body.  Nice form on his jumper.  A good FT shooter.  Good midrange game.  Needed to add some quickness and ball security - but feel he could have been a valuable contributor at this level.  We'll never know.

But, there are plenty of cases where different coaches see different things in the same player. 

[MU82]

The point is Advanced Stats can be in conflict with one another - just as Value Add and Pomeroy suggest.

The point is you use Advanced Stats when they fit your narrative and dismiss them when they don't.

And that's OK -- most people use stats (advanced or not) in the same way. Many of us are just less likely to say, "I'm right and you're wrong, stupid!" when we do.

[4everwarriors]

Bama is the one who, through his value add ranking system, pegged Derrick as the second best player on the team.   A year ago, he had Derrick as a zero on his value add, this year, second best player on the team. 

Does this say more about Derrick or more about the team?

[rocket surgeon]

I guess it depends on how much he knew about NN's issues at that time. 

 thank you-so much monday a.m. quarterbacking going on here-nn looked like a pretty good catch.  i am pretty sure if the "depression " issues came up after nn was having 2nd thoughts with the departure of buzz, wojo wouldn't have let the door hit nn on his way out

[ATL MU Warrior]

Does this say more about Derrick or more about the team?

Yes.  This is what certain former HS all-stars cannot seem to wrap their heads around.

[tower912]

Does this say more about Derrick or more about the team?

The team.

[Jables1604]

What are statistics?  According to Ners basketball is an art...remember?

[Dawson Rental]

The point is you use Advanced Stats when they fit your narrative and dismiss them when they don't.

And that's OK -- most people use stats (advanced or not) in the same way. Many of us are just less likely to say, "I'm right and you're wrong, stupid!" when we do.

In support of your point...

[NersEllenson]

Does this say more about Derrick or more about the team?

It says more that Value Add is a flawed Advanced Stat in some cases.

The team.

And furthermore Tower - the stats Bama did offer date back roughly 5-7 games.  Would be interested to see an update now after Derrick laying his usual clunker of games in Big East play.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Nm

[MattyWarrior]

So is NN going to Iowa State? Can't remember all the guys we almost got to come here, some actually landed in MKE
before they left. Maybe one of these Fridays something good will happen in our program..

[Eldon]

It says more that Value Add is a flawed Advanced Stat in some cases.

And furthermore Tower - the stats Bama did offer date back roughly 5-7 games.  Would be interested to see an update now after Derrick laying his usual clunker of games in Big East play.

I'm still waiting to see an offensive stat that measures defender-sagging. I suppose fg% can proxy for it, as the lower the fg%, the more a defender will sag, but it's not a perfect relationship (the difference would come primarily from the defender's perception of the offensive player's shooting ability) . +/-also could somewhat pick up the sagging, but only to a very very very rough approximation.